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Re: Germans and WW2 [message #384938 is a reply to message #382836]

Thu, 07 May 2009 22:34

NukeIt15
Messages: 987
Registered: February 2003
Location: Out to lunch

Karma:

Colonel

There was another consideration, actually, besides the projected casualty counts- if the Allies had undertaken an amphibious invasion of the Japanese home islands, the Soviet Union would have become heavily involved. By the time August rolled around, Germany had already been occupied and sliced up- and the USSR claimed a pretty big chunk of territory (while West Germany eventually regained its independence, East Germany remained a de facto Soviet colony until the Berlin Wall came down... not to mention most of Eastern Europe). There's no question that Stalin would have done the same in Japan- so the war had to be brought to a close before the USSR could make any such claim.

Look at former Warsaw Pact member states today, and compare them to NATO's sphere of influence. Stalin and his successors would have sucked dry any part of Japan they'd gotten their hands on- the country owes its present-day prosperity to having not been invaded.

Additionally, may cities were spared which might not have otherwise been. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were not unique- I don't know how many people are aware of this, but Nagasaki was actually one of the secondary targets for the August 9th mission ("Bock's Car," the B-29 assigned to the Fat Man mission, was diverted from Kokura as the weather over that city was overcast). The cities chosen for the target list were chosen because they were either of high strategic value or were poorly suited for other attacks (i.e. incendiary bombs, as were used against Tokyo). While additional atomic bombs were in the final stages of production, odds are they would not have been widely used in support of an invasion- incendiaries, however, might have been (and, as has already been mentioned, the casualties from the firebomb raids were much, much higher than those from even both of the atomic raids combined- even factoring in later casualties from radiation sickness).

In short, the decision was not so simple as "we have an awesome new weapon, let's use it and shock the enemy into surrendering."

"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived of the use of them." - Thomas Paine

Remember, kids: illiteracy is cool. If you took the time to read this, you are clearly a loser who will never get laid. You've been warned.

[Updated on: Thu, 07 May 2009 22:36]

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[Message index]

		Germans and WW2 By: slosha on Sun, 26 April 2009 20:06
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: genetix on Sun, 26 April 2009 21:52
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: Jamie or NuneGa on Sun, 26 April 2009 21:57
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: genetix on Sun, 26 April 2009 22:05
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: DAUGHTER DIVER on Wed, 29 April 2009 13:47
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: genetix on Thu, 30 April 2009 20:29
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: Spoony on Fri, 01 May 2009 02:19
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: DAUGHTER DIVER on Fri, 01 May 2009 21:13
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: slosha on Mon, 27 April 2009 12:28
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: Muad Dib15 on Mon, 27 April 2009 17:18
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: DAUGHTER DIVER on Wed, 29 April 2009 13:43
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: GoArmy44 on Thu, 07 May 2009 21:38
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: DAUGHTER DIVER on Fri, 08 May 2009 21:16
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: Spoony on Sat, 09 May 2009 05:16
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: Wiener on Sun, 26 April 2009 23:42
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: Sir Kane on Mon, 27 April 2009 06:48
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: rrutk on Mon, 27 April 2009 07:00
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: Herr Surth on Mon, 27 April 2009 07:15
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: Spoony on Mon, 27 April 2009 08:38
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: cAmpa on Mon, 27 April 2009 17:50
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: w0dka on Sun, 17 May 2009 08:38
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: slosha on Tue, 19 May 2009 16:26
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: slosha on Mon, 27 April 2009 18:28
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: Muad Dib15 on Wed, 29 April 2009 16:40
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: ErroR on Thu, 30 April 2009 08:39
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: Jamie or NuneGa on Thu, 30 April 2009 19:55
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: slosha on Sat, 02 May 2009 19:36
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: DAUGHTER DIVER on Sat, 02 May 2009 23:37
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: slosha on Sat, 02 May 2009 23:50
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: DAUGHTER DIVER on Sun, 03 May 2009 06:58
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: u6795 on Sun, 03 May 2009 07:40
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: DAUGHTER DIVER on Sun, 03 May 2009 11:07
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: genetix on Sun, 03 May 2009 11:27
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: DAUGHTER DIVER on Sun, 03 May 2009 15:49
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: genetix on Sun, 03 May 2009 19:45
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: DAUGHTER DIVER on Sun, 03 May 2009 22:49
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: Spoony on Sun, 03 May 2009 08:13
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: DAUGHTER DIVER on Sun, 03 May 2009 11:05
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: Spoony on Sun, 03 May 2009 11:36
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: DAUGHTER DIVER on Sun, 03 May 2009 15:57
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: Spoony on Tue, 05 May 2009 12:15
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: CarrierII on Tue, 05 May 2009 13:10
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: DAUGHTER DIVER on Wed, 06 May 2009 02:51
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: Dover on Sun, 03 May 2009 22:50
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: Dover on Fri, 08 May 2009 12:30
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: CarrierII on Mon, 04 May 2009 02:13
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: mrÃ£Ã§Ä·z on Mon, 04 May 2009 08:22
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: u6795 on Mon, 04 May 2009 11:44
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: slosha on Mon, 04 May 2009 17:58
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: Wiener on Mon, 04 May 2009 23:01
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: mrÃ£Ã§Ä·z on Tue, 05 May 2009 06:10
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: Wiener on Tue, 05 May 2009 09:10
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: u6795 on Tue, 05 May 2009 11:45
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: slosha on Tue, 05 May 2009 13:03
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: Herr Surth on Tue, 05 May 2009 12:03
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: mrÃ£Ã§Ä·z on Tue, 05 May 2009 13:10
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: NukeIt15 on Thu, 07 May 2009 22:34
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: Muad Dib15 on Fri, 08 May 2009 11:47
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Sat, 09 May 2009 06:25
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: u6795 on Sat, 09 May 2009 06:47
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: DAUGHTER DIVER on Sat, 09 May 2009 07:27
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: Spoony on Sat, 09 May 2009 07:44
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: DAUGHTER DIVER on Sat, 09 May 2009 07:59
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: Spoony on Sat, 09 May 2009 09:04
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: Herr Surth on Sat, 09 May 2009 09:13
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: DAUGHTER DIVER on Sat, 09 May 2009 10:53
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: Herr Surth on Sat, 09 May 2009 07:39
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: GoArmy44 on Sat, 09 May 2009 09:54
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: DAUGHTER DIVER on Sat, 09 May 2009 10:50
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: nikki6ixx on Tue, 19 May 2009 16:36
		Re: Germans and WW2 By: Herr Surth on Wed, 20 May 2009 03:06

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