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Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters [message #238533 is a reply to message #237504]

Thu, 11 January 2007 00:46

Kanezor
Messages: 855
Registered: February 2005
Location: Sugar Land, TX, USA

Karma:

Colonel

Totally disregarding the flamefest in the rest of the thread...

fl00d3d wrote on Sat, 06 January 2007 01:41

First off, I know for a fact that this is going to stir up quite a bit of arguments -- so I want to point out early in the thread that I am NOT doing this to start problems. I just wanted to bring an issue to light and see how others felt about it.

As many of the folks at clanwars.cc have found out recently:
--Two convicted cheaters are being allowed to return to the league
--Someone who cheated on a public server under Crimson's name is not being banned on clanwars.cc and is instead getting a forum ban for one month

The argument on clanwars.cc was "Do you think this is fair to have convicted cheaters return to the league and do you think that cheating on a public server should earn you a ban in the clanwars.cc Renegade league?". Many people felt that since the two cheaters have done their time, they should be given another chance. They also, for the most part, felt that cheating on public servers isn't a big deal since pub. servers are a joke to them and they could care less about them.

My argument was that I do not think a cheater should ever be unbanned under any circumstance, and that if you cheat on a public server you should be banned in every way/shape/form possible ... including on the clanwars.cc Renegade league. This belief worked up a lot of people on clanwars.cc - but I stand firm to it to this day.

Clanwars.cc players are going to argue: the punishment was fair, they did their time, and life moves on. People screw around on public servers but its not a big deal since its not an official clanwar.

Pub. players are bound to think that is a load of shit.

So what do you guys think? Am I over-reacting or making too big of a fuss over this, or is the Renegade league wrong to be this lenient on convicted cheaters?

I disagree. If you absolutely never unbanned any cheater, the current playerbase would be significantly smaller. I know of dozens of players that have dabbled in cheats now and then, whether for testing, for payback, or for their own fun at other players' expense. Even with the playerbase issues aside, I still do not think that it would be right to ban someone forever. I believe that an incremental punishment should be effective. As far as public games go... if they can be 100% proven to be abusing cheats, then an hour ban on the first offense, a day ban on the second, a week on the third, a month on the fourth, and an indefinite ban on the fifth.

And I most certainly agree that the punishment should be up to the leadership, and it's up to the leadership to ensure that the punishment is fair. With that in mind, I don't think it matters whether you're in a public game or a private game.

I do not think that you should be banned on separate entities. For example, if you get caught cheating in n00bstories, I don't think you should get banned from n00bless. But again, that's up to the respective leaderships.

As far as tournaments and ladders go, I believe that any 100% proven cheating (public, organized, or other) should immediately and permanently disqualify you from participating. Tournaments and ladders are enough of a royal pain in the ass to play. Throw some cheat accusations (ZOMG EVERYONE STOP WHAT YOU'RE FUCKING DOING AND TAKE A SCREENSHOT!!!) and you can & will change the outcome of the game. I've seen it happen and is one of the bigger reaons that I've stopped playing such games.

Cheating is rampant, yes. Half of the problem is that the Renegade engine *ALLOWS* so much cheating so easily. If BHS had the Renegade source code... well, there's a *LOT* of cheats that could be prevented by just a few tweaks of the engine which are currently extremely hard to do without the source code.

---

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[Message index]

		Treatment of convicted cheaters By: fl00d3d on Sat, 06 January 2007 00:41
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: NukeIt15 on Sat, 06 January 2007 01:05
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: DarkKnight on Sat, 06 January 2007 21:52
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Spoony on Sat, 06 January 2007 01:40
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: fl00d3d on Sat, 06 January 2007 04:06
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Sat, 06 January 2007 15:21
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: MexPirate on Sat, 06 January 2007 06:12
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: fl00d3d on Sat, 06 January 2007 06:52
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Spoony on Sat, 06 January 2007 11:57
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: MexPirate on Sat, 06 January 2007 07:28
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: puddle_splasher on Sun, 07 January 2007 04:17
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Spoony on Sun, 07 January 2007 04:36
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: MexPirate on Sun, 07 January 2007 05:39
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: puddle_splasher on Sun, 07 January 2007 07:44
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: MexPirate on Sun, 07 January 2007 08:29
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Goztow on Sat, 06 January 2007 13:27
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Ryu on Sat, 06 January 2007 14:19
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: MexPirate on Sat, 06 January 2007 14:20
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Spoony on Sat, 06 January 2007 14:39
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Goztow on Sat, 06 January 2007 14:41
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Spoony on Sat, 06 January 2007 15:01
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Sat, 06 January 2007 15:17
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Spoony on Sat, 06 January 2007 15:28
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: IronWarrior on Sat, 06 January 2007 15:46
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Spoony on Sat, 06 January 2007 16:30
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: IronWarrior on Sat, 06 January 2007 16:34
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Sat, 06 January 2007 18:50
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Spoony on Sat, 06 January 2007 23:46
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: puddle_splasher on Sun, 07 January 2007 04:36
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Spoony on Sun, 07 January 2007 05:00
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: EvilWhiteDragon on Wed, 10 January 2007 12:46
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: trooprm02 on Sat, 06 January 2007 20:04
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: luv2pb on Sat, 06 January 2007 20:52
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Canadacdn on Sat, 06 January 2007 21:24
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: DarkKnight on Sun, 07 January 2007 03:17
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Sun, 07 January 2007 05:11
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Sniper_De7 on Sun, 07 January 2007 05:22
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Goztow on Sun, 07 January 2007 05:33
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Goztow on Sun, 07 January 2007 05:48
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Sniper_De7 on Sun, 07 January 2007 05:48
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Sun, 07 January 2007 05:51
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Sniper_De7 on Sun, 07 January 2007 05:54
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Sun, 07 January 2007 06:16
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Goztow on Sun, 07 January 2007 07:17
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Sniper_De7 on Sun, 07 January 2007 09:47
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: MexPirate on Sun, 07 January 2007 10:13
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Sun, 07 January 2007 16:59
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Spoony on Sun, 07 January 2007 22:10
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Sun, 07 January 2007 22:32
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Spoony on Sun, 07 January 2007 22:37
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Sun, 07 January 2007 22:59
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Sun, 07 January 2007 23:01
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Spoony on Sun, 07 January 2007 23:08
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Sun, 07 January 2007 23:09
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Renerage on Mon, 08 January 2007 12:44
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: puddle_splasher on Mon, 08 January 2007 02:46
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: MexPirate on Mon, 08 January 2007 06:14
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: puddle_splasher on Mon, 08 January 2007 06:18
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: fl00d3d on Mon, 08 January 2007 11:56
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Mon, 08 January 2007 12:54
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Renerage on Mon, 08 January 2007 12:59
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Ryu on Mon, 08 January 2007 13:14
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Mon, 08 January 2007 14:14
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: MexPirate on Mon, 08 January 2007 14:39
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Mon, 08 January 2007 14:44
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: MexPirate on Mon, 08 January 2007 21:19
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Mon, 08 January 2007 22:08
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: CarrierII on Tue, 09 January 2007 04:45
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: MexPirate on Tue, 09 January 2007 07:05
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: warranto on Tue, 09 January 2007 10:21
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Tue, 09 January 2007 11:54
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: fl00d3d on Tue, 09 January 2007 15:39
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Blazer on Tue, 09 January 2007 18:03
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: MexPirate on Tue, 09 January 2007 19:38
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: fl00d3d on Wed, 10 January 2007 02:41
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Tue, 09 January 2007 16:21
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: MexPirate on Tue, 09 January 2007 16:41
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Tue, 09 January 2007 17:02
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Tue, 09 January 2007 17:09
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: fl00d3d on Wed, 10 January 2007 02:53
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Ryu on Tue, 09 January 2007 19:29
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Blazer on Wed, 10 January 2007 02:53
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Wed, 10 January 2007 03:30
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Jimbo27 on Wed, 10 January 2007 13:33
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Goztow on Wed, 10 January 2007 04:02
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Wed, 10 January 2007 04:46
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Goztow on Wed, 10 January 2007 05:16
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: MexPirate on Wed, 10 January 2007 05:36
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Wed, 10 January 2007 05:40
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Blazer on Wed, 10 January 2007 05:54
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: EvilWhiteDragon on Wed, 10 January 2007 12:58
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Goztow on Wed, 10 January 2007 06:45
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Blazer on Wed, 10 January 2007 13:11
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: EvilWhiteDragon on Wed, 10 January 2007 13:40
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: CarrierII on Wed, 10 January 2007 11:20
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: reborn on Wed, 10 January 2007 13:11
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Jimbo27 on Wed, 10 January 2007 13:23
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: warranto on Wed, 10 January 2007 13:42
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Wed, 10 January 2007 13:48
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: EvilWhiteDragon on Wed, 10 January 2007 14:04
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Tunaman on Wed, 10 January 2007 14:07
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: JohnDoe on Wed, 10 January 2007 14:08
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: EvilWhiteDragon on Wed, 10 January 2007 14:11
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Wed, 10 January 2007 14:14
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: EvilWhiteDragon on Wed, 10 January 2007 14:31
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: JohnDoe on Wed, 10 January 2007 14:27
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: JohnDoe on Wed, 10 January 2007 14:30
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Ryu on Wed, 10 January 2007 19:14
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Wed, 10 January 2007 14:37
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: JohnDoe on Wed, 10 January 2007 14:40
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Wed, 10 January 2007 14:42
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: warranto on Wed, 10 January 2007 14:41
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: JohnDoe on Wed, 10 January 2007 15:03
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: warranto on Wed, 10 January 2007 15:48
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Goztow on Wed, 10 January 2007 15:12
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: JohnDoe on Wed, 10 January 2007 15:20
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Goztow on Wed, 10 January 2007 15:27
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: JohnDoe on Thu, 11 January 2007 00:40
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: fl00d3d on Wed, 10 January 2007 18:05
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Wed, 10 January 2007 18:41
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: EvilWhiteDragon on Wed, 10 January 2007 23:20
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: fl00d3d on Wed, 10 January 2007 23:23
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Kanezor on Thu, 11 January 2007 00:46
		Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters By: Crimson on Thu, 11 January 2007 05:40

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