Renegade Public Forums
C&C: Renegade --> Dying since 2003™, resurrected in 2024!
Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » Treatment of convicted cheaters
Re: Treatment of convicted cheaters [message #238342 is a reply to message #238339] Wed, 10 January 2007 04:46 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Crimson is currently offline  Crimson
Messages: 7431
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma:
General (5 Stars)
ADMINISTRATOR
Goztow wrote on Wed, 10 January 2007 04:02

1. If the cw.cc community and renforums community could work together to counter cheaters then they should. The contents of Spoony's proposal does seem to me worthwhile as it is a solution which can work in short term without a lot of effort, but based on cooperation from the community. I technically believe that xwis bans will make cheaters think twice, especially because some people are working at ways to make sure people without a valid xwis serial will not be able to join the server. I also believe there are better ways but they will ask more time and cooperation with xwis/EA.


It may SEEM worthwhile on the surface, but if you look at the most prevalent bypass out there and the people making the cheats, this idea simply will provide a false sense of security not unlike the current iteration of RenGuard. And why should we have two easily-bypassed anti-cheat solutions when one is more than enough? There are also some other factors I simply can't talk about in public. I think the BI guys can agree with me on that.

Quote:

2. To be able to cooperate, you need a basis of respect and objectivity from both sides, otherwise you will fail miserably. At this moment, I tend to believe both sides have problems with this point.


Well, I do respect certain aspects of his work... maybe that's a start.

Quote:

Spoony is very bad in packing his proposals, as is a big part of the cw.cc community (many seem to find it a good idea to throw in a lot of insults when things aren't exactly going the way it should go).


Nice to see someone agreeing with me on this. Spoony essentially told me that it didn't matter that he insulted me so long as he felt what he was saying was true.

Quote:

There's a lot of prejudices already instored and as long as both sides won't go to the core of the problem and focus objectively on what can be done with respect towards eachother, all this hasn't got the slightest chance of succeeding. So yes: Spoony's proposal makes sence but what a terrible public relations person you make if you use a perfectly sensible proposal to throw in a couple of other issues to make the other partie look bad. If you REALLY want a peace treaty, then don't you think it would be good to pack your proposal as one? Where's the "let's forget about the past, I want to work with you and not against you"? In your mind, you may think of things as completely objective and maybe they are (I won't judge) but that's no reason to write them down as if in a proposal ment as peace treaty.


I can't disagree with that. I can dig up the few times over the past few years that I've sent peace offerings that didn't include insults and show you what happened...

Quote:

Then again, Crimson: you are correct that this wasn't exactly packed as what you could call a peace treaty but you take the opportunity to throw this back at Spoony and, at the meanwhile, throw away the complete proposal.


Incorrect, I threw away the proposal for the reasons I stated above as to the potential for effectiveness. If I thought the idea was good but wanted to act biased against Spoony, I would have ACCEPTED the idea and put someone else at the helm of it. There is ample evidence of me taking the advice of others and acting on it when it's good and usable advice.

Quote:

Both your reactions make me ask the question "do you both want what's best for the renegade community or do you want what you propose as being best for the Renegade community"?


I don't see the difference. Of course I want what's best for the community... I don't intend to waste my time or money.

Quote:

Wouldn't it be fair to strip the proposal of political stuff and discuss the proposal itself before discussing who can administrate the whole thing?


We already did that... once I removed Spoony from posting here we were able to discuss the proposal itself in civil terms without insults.

Quote:

But before doing this: dress a seperate, clear "peace treaty" in which both parties agree to forget about past problems and agree to respect and defend eachother statements in public forums. PLEASE keep your vendetta away from public forums, for the love of God: it doesn't benefit the renegade community AT ALL, it only makes us look like clowns towards xwis and EA.


I can't disagree with that. I never wanted these discussions here in the first place. They are completely counterproductive. The fact that Spoony has tried to go over my head and complain about me to EA twice now serves as the very pinnacle of embarrassment for this community. There was no reason they ever needed to know about one of the many levels of ReneDrama(tm).

Quote:

IMO it would be best for everyone to have a third person, trusted by both parties, with a good knowledge of cheaters, administrate this anti-cheating proposal. Whoever this could be is an open question but ain't important at all if you two can't work at above problems first.


Unfortunately, there are pitiful few who can qualify, and even those could easily be fooled by someone with a little intelligence and planning. However, the proposal itself would not have sufficient impact to stop cheating. And last, but not least, I am unhappy that the proposed solution encourages server owners to stop allowing direct connect players. I have many players on my server who use GameSpy (who I previous referred to as "my GameSpy players" which made Spoony think I was claiming ALL GAMESPY PLAYERS as my own or something) and I don't want to force them to use XWIS. There is a strong WOL vs. GameSpy competitiveness in this community and encouraging servers to move to XWIS-only would be insulting to those who prefer GameSpy.

Quote:

3. If you guys REALLY cannot get over all of this and if you REALLY believe there is no way to make bridges, then the only solution is to do what Crimson has said so far: stay FAR away from eachother but then you need an agreement to do this and to stop the stupid fighting/disrespecting. But if you agree to do this anyway, then you may as well work together on some projects, right?


*shrug* I'd prefer keeping our discussions on a need-to-talk basis, without insults, if he is in fact capable.

Just to add on here... I started the Server Owners' forum back when RenGuard just started to be developed as a solution to communicate between server owners when cheaters were found, and those cheaters were generally banned from most of the big servers in the community within 24 hours or less. This isn't exactly a "new" idea. It's just a change of the existing idea where, instead of server owners deciding who to ban/not ban from their servers, they are expected to trust one person to decide for them.

I have already presented a better solution in another thread... all of which was ALREADY IN PROGRESS before this "proposal" (which, let's be fair here, is the exact same proposal someone else came up with and posted here, with the added "let me run it" tacked on) came to me.

I'm the bawss.

Report message to a moderator

[Message index]
 
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Previous Topic: BHS Rumor's
Next Topic: Suggestion
Goto Forum:
  

[ Syndicate this forum (XML) ] [ RSS ] [ PDF ]

Current Time: Sun Aug 03 17:47:42 MST 2025

Total time taken to generate the page: 0.02772 seconds
.:: Contact :: Home ::.

Powered by: FUDforum 420.69.
Copyright ©2001-2023 FUDforum Bulletin Board Software