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This is one of the saddest and amzaing things i've seen [message #128801] Fri, 24 December 2004 10:34 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Javaxcx
Messages: 1943
Registered: February 2003
Location: Canada, eh?
Karma:
General (1 Star)
=[DT

=gbull=[L]=]on the contrary, you are the one that believes in the punishment not equating the crime. They kill, so they should pay with their life. Sounds fair to me. Dont do the crime if you cant do the time, and in a World with capital punishment, its an eternity.


You didn't answer my question. But it further goes to prove my point. In the justice system WE HAVE TODAY, the punishment rarely, if EVER equates to the crime. A double standard is established in the courts, and thus, a double standard for justice is created. That itself isn't logical. Justice, among other things definitely should NOT be given a double standard. If it does, then justice is not a universal in the courts and the purpose of the courts is nothing more than a hypocrisy.

=[DT

=gbull=[L]=]In this lady, possibly not. But if an example is made of her then it will deter future murders. Think 5 minutes past the present will ya? Not to mention Habitual murderers are the ones that CANNOT be cured of their own sick mind anyhow, so what is the purpose of keeping them in prison and making the taxpayers pay for them to live?


I suggest you read this article. It give very good information for both our arguments, and the effect of this so called "deterent policy".

Also see this article. And please, don't be like Cowmisfit or Nodbugger. Use your head. It would be refreshing to see someone actually do that.

Moving on... "Making an example" of someone is not something the court is meant to do. When you establish an kind of deterent, it is supposed to be preventative, not effective only after the matter of fact. Now, as for that statement that habitual murders cannot be cured. I'll have to argue with that one as well. Habitual addictions are cured every day by different people with different problems. The only difference with murder is that it cannot be cured in a gradual way, like smoking. That doesn't mean it cannot be cured. I'll get into the psycological reasons why, but they don't really pertain to this argument so I'll save them unless you want me to discuss them.

Javaxcx

In no place did I say that i agreed with the way we handle the death penalty when it is dealt. I would rather have the murderer die the way they killed the day AFTER they are declared guilty. Hows that for fair.


And what if the courts are wrong? They can and have been wrong, you know. The way you want it, I promise you that you would be doing the very same thing that you are so against.

Javaxcx

No shit, how do think punishments should be carried out? without trial? of course capital punishment is pre-meditated, what other way is there to do it? You make it sound as if its the COURTS fault they decided on the death penalty when its the murder's decision ultimately.


From my OWN personal feelings and such, I don't believe the death penalty is valid at all. This seems to be the thing that you're repling to. There is a reason I haven't been voicing why it is immoral for me personally, because, like you and your arguments, it is only a feeling. The objective rationalle behind it is not the same for you as it would be for me. So it is a useless argument to make. But I feel it is necessary to call attention to this one:

Quote:

You make it sound as if its the COURTS fault they decided on the death penalty when its the murder's decision ultimately


It IS the court's fault they decided on the death penalty. The very vocabulary you used proved that. They DECIDED on it. It is therefore their responsability and their fault they chose it when they could have chosen life without parole.

Javaxcx

I never said she didnt deserve a fair trial, everone is entitled to one, and I also never said you defended murders.


Read the first part of that paragraph again. I wasn't necessarily talking about you.

Quote:

I just said the way you think murders should be punished isnt fair.


Before I voice my own opinion on this, let me ask you a question. What is a punishment? And don't cite me dictionary definitions.

Quote:

It isnt fair to those that were murdered. You think they got trial? You think they had a say in the matter on whether they would live or die? You dont defend murderers but i will say that they are the only people you think about, while I think about the victim.


You're right, that IS the difference between you and I. I don't let my feelings cloud what should be an objective JUDGEMENT. Objectively, the victim doesn't exist anymore and the suspect does. Objectively, it is hypocritical of the courts to establish a double standard on this kind of case in the name of justice. Objectively, how much you hate the person mustn't allow you to seek hateful revenge instead of justice. What you and others don't seem to realize is that what I feel, you do NOT know. And for all you know, and it is probable, that I feel the same way about this woman as you do. I merely have the sense and patience to consider the situation from a hateless perspective. Something others here do not.


Quote:

Also, I dont know how to take that nodbugger thing since i dont know him, but i couldnt give a shit about what he thinks. I think for myself.


I wasn't directing that at you. But I suggest you don't have a damn about what he thinks regardless.

Quote:

Also, im not "eager" to dish out death, but I am eager to dish out justice.


Oh really? Your first post in this thread was:
Quote:

sicko, two words: Electric Chair.


The woman didn't even have a trial yet and you were calling for her head. All of this based on a news article you read. You shot first and now claim to want to have asked questions later if at all in the name of justice.

Quote:

As far as valuing a human life, try valuing the deceased, instead thinking of the murderer all the time.


Well, last time I checked, the deceased could not be brought back to life. The deed is done. The question is whether you are going to do the exact same thing and devalue a human life the way the murderer did. You are what you eat?


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