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Litmus test for liberals [message #108994]

Thu, 19 August 2004 19:14

NukeIt15
Messages: 987
Registered: February 2003
Location: Out to lunch

Karma:

Colonel

Quote:

A little off topic, but these same "weapons of terror" (however those "experts" want to define it) are probably what kept the United States and Russia from blasting each other. It pertains no relevance to Saddam, but condemning the same weapons (or at least having that kind of connotation) that probably saved all of our lives seems a bit strange.

The fear of those weapons was what made them the most useful, I agree. Mutually assured destruction. However, there are enough of the damn things around already to wipe out all life on Earth several times over, and IMHO it is far better to have any existing weapons in the hands of countries which are not willing to use them(or lose them!).

Quote:

I'm curious, could you get some proof about those MRBMs? It's not that I don't believe you, it's just I would prefer to have some confirmation.

I had been watching live news reports of the invasion when the SCUDs first came up- IIRC, Saddam's troops fired on Kuwait with them from well inside the Iraqi border. I'm pretty sure it was CNN I was watching- if I have the time tomorrow, I'll try to find a write-up of the story. In case you get around to looking before I do, the event took place within about 12-24 hours of the beginning of the invasion.

Quote:

Well, it's equally arguable to say the same thing to the intelligence communities that screwed up, right?

The intelligence community DID screw up. The director of the CIA lost his job over it- officially he resigned for "personal reasons," however it is well known that all government officials hand the President signed (but undated) resignation letters before taking office. They do that so the administration can fire any person at any time without looking bad for it.

Quote:

I sincerely hope you haven't concluded that France and opposers to the war were in it for personal gain only. If you have, then I'm sorry to say but you are wrong. It might surprise you, but other people have principles as well, and they don't always revolve around money. Canada did not send their troops to Iraq, but we thus far have given over $300,000,000 to the Iraqi people for humanitarian reasons since this war began. We gain nothing from Saddam being in power, and risk quite a lot by not supporting one of our closest allies in their unlawful invasion.

Sad as it may be, no country makes decisions of that significance without there being some gain in it for them. That includes France, the US, and everyone else as well. Morality may play some part, but it is the money and security that really drive such choices.

Quote:

You said "at the time". With Saddam out of power, and any influx of funds going to France because of Saddam (as so many people seem to believe) stopped, why aren't the French, in full force assisting in Iraq now (I'm NOT referring to the humanitarian efforts of the United Nations, btw)? Why isn't Canada? Why isn't Russia?

Simple. With Saddam gone, there is no money to be made. Sending troops would do nothing to augment the country's income or security- and assisting the insurgents would only ruin the already shaky US-France or US-Russia alliances.

Quote:

I love the argument about how Saddam was going to attack us all with WMDs. You do realise that an ICBM needs to have sattelite targetting don't you? How many sattelites do you think Saddam had? WMDs were never an issue to us, only to Kuwait, Iran and Saudi Arabia, all of whom happen to be about as much interest to the northern hemisphere as the oil they produce....

You, sir, need to read more. Or watch more TV. Or do something- your information is inadequate at best.
*First-An ICBM does not *need* to be targeted at all- it could be purchased having already been configured by someone else. The missile guides itself, and needs no outside assistance once launched.
*Second- We aren't talking about ICBM's(InterContinental Ballistic Missiles), we're talking about MRBM's(Medium Range Ballistic Missiles). Biiig difference. Most ICBM's go all thge way up into Earth orbit before hitting their targets, while an MRBM(such as a SCUD launcher) may only reach as high as the Stratosphere- around cruising altitude for commercial jetliners.

I won't even answer the part about oil, since this war never had anything to do with oil in the first place- a fact which has been established time and time again.

"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived of the use of them." - Thomas Paine

Remember, kids: illiteracy is cool. If you took the time to read this, you are clearly a loser who will never get laid. You've been warned.

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[Message index]

		Litmus test for liberals By: Crimson on Wed, 04 August 2004 19:35
		Re: Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Wed, 04 August 2004 19:40
		Litmus test for liberals By: Fabian on Wed, 04 August 2004 20:54
		Litmus test for liberals By: Javaxcx on Wed, 04 August 2004 21:09
		Litmus test for liberals By: Crimson on Thu, 05 August 2004 00:04
		Litmus test for liberals By: NHJ BV on Thu, 05 August 2004 00:27
		^^^^^^^^^^ By: punkun21 on Thu, 05 August 2004 03:48
		Litmus test for liberals By: Fabian on Thu, 05 August 2004 05:03
		Re: ^^^^^^^^^^ By: NHJ BV on Thu, 05 August 2004 06:06
		Litmus test for liberals By: warranto on Thu, 05 August 2004 07:53
		Litmus test for liberals By: Javaxcx on Thu, 05 August 2004 11:00
		Litmus test for liberals By: Pak on Thu, 05 August 2004 11:21
		Litmus test for liberals By: SuperFlyingEngi on Thu, 05 August 2004 11:51
		Litmus test for liberals By: Pak on Thu, 05 August 2004 12:23
		Litmus test for liberals By: MrBob on Thu, 05 August 2004 13:00
		Litmus test for liberals By: Pak on Thu, 05 August 2004 13:52
		Litmus test for liberals By: SuperFlyingEngi on Thu, 05 August 2004 13:53
		Litmus test for liberals By: MrBob on Thu, 05 August 2004 15:04
		Litmus test for liberals By: Hydra on Thu, 05 August 2004 19:13
		Litmus test for liberals By: NHJ BV on Thu, 05 August 2004 23:26
		Litmus test for liberals By: Hydra on Thu, 05 August 2004 23:49
		Litmus test for liberals By: SuperFlyingEngi on Fri, 06 August 2004 07:24
		Litmus test for liberals By: Crimson on Fri, 06 August 2004 10:43
		Litmus test for liberals By: NukeIt15 on Sat, 07 August 2004 08:00
		Litmus test for liberals By: Javaxcx on Sat, 07 August 2004 08:03
		Litmus test for liberals By: setstyle on Sat, 07 August 2004 15:15
		Litmus test for liberals By: MrBob on Sat, 07 August 2004 16:20
		Litmus test for liberals By: NHJ BV on Sun, 08 August 2004 00:48
		Litmus test for liberals By: MrBob on Sun, 08 August 2004 02:02
		Litmus test for liberals By: NHJ BV on Sun, 08 August 2004 06:24
		Litmus test for liberals By: Crimson on Mon, 09 August 2004 09:57
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Mon, 09 August 2004 12:56
		Litmus test for liberals By: Hydra on Mon, 09 August 2004 14:22
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Mon, 09 August 2004 15:04
		Litmus test for liberals By: Crimson on Mon, 09 August 2004 16:03
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Mon, 09 August 2004 16:39
		Litmus test for liberals By: Doitle on Mon, 09 August 2004 20:34
		Litmus test for liberals By: NHJ BV on Mon, 09 August 2004 23:13
		foolios By: ViperFUD on Tue, 10 August 2004 04:34
		Litmus test for liberals By: Fabian on Tue, 10 August 2004 05:01
		Litmus test for liberals By: Hydra on Tue, 10 August 2004 11:32
		Litmus test for liberals By: Fabian on Tue, 10 August 2004 11:54
		Litmus test for liberals By: Gizbotvas on Tue, 10 August 2004 14:02
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Tue, 10 August 2004 14:24
		Litmus test for liberals By: Fabian on Tue, 10 August 2004 14:43
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Tue, 10 August 2004 14:44
		Litmus test for liberals By: Crimson on Tue, 10 August 2004 14:48
		Litmus test for liberals By: Fabian on Tue, 10 August 2004 14:53
		Litmus test for liberals By: SuperFlyingEngi on Tue, 10 August 2004 16:10
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Tue, 10 August 2004 16:15
		Litmus test for liberals By: Crimson on Tue, 10 August 2004 16:20
		Litmus test for liberals By: Fabian on Tue, 10 August 2004 17:18
		Litmus test for liberals By: Crimson on Tue, 10 August 2004 18:23
		Litmus test for liberals By: Doitle on Tue, 10 August 2004 19:45
		Litmus test for liberals By: NHJ BV on Wed, 11 August 2004 01:10
		Litmus test for liberals By: Fabian on Wed, 11 August 2004 04:53
		Litmus test for liberals By: Javaxcx on Wed, 11 August 2004 07:33
		Litmus test for liberals By: SuperFlyingEngi on Wed, 11 August 2004 09:27
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Wed, 11 August 2004 10:12
		Litmus test for liberals By: Javaxcx on Wed, 11 August 2004 10:40
		Litmus test for liberals By: Crimson on Wed, 11 August 2004 10:48
		Litmus test for liberals By: Hydra on Wed, 11 August 2004 18:29
		Litmus test for liberals By: NHJ BV on Thu, 12 August 2004 01:16
		Litmus test for liberals By: SuperFlyingEngi on Thu, 12 August 2004 05:13
		Litmus test for liberals By: Gizbotvas on Thu, 12 August 2004 08:23
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Thu, 12 August 2004 08:30
		Litmus test for liberals By: Fabian on Thu, 12 August 2004 10:23
		Litmus test for liberals By: Crimson on Thu, 12 August 2004 10:35
		Litmus test for liberals By: Gizbotvas on Thu, 12 August 2004 10:44
		Litmus test for liberals By: Gizbotvas on Thu, 12 August 2004 10:50
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Thu, 12 August 2004 11:16
		Litmus test for liberals By: NukeIt15 on Thu, 12 August 2004 13:24
		Litmus test for liberals By: Crimson on Thu, 12 August 2004 14:11
		Litmus test for liberals By: warranto on Thu, 12 August 2004 16:09
		Litmus test for liberals By: Javaxcx on Fri, 13 August 2004 03:28
		Litmus test for liberals By: ViperFUD on Fri, 13 August 2004 04:32
		Litmus test for liberals By: Javaxcx on Fri, 13 August 2004 05:13
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Fri, 13 August 2004 06:28
		Litmus test for liberals By: Javaxcx on Fri, 13 August 2004 06:32
		Litmus test for liberals By: NukeIt15 on Fri, 13 August 2004 07:23
		Litmus test for liberals By: Gizbotvas on Fri, 13 August 2004 12:41
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Fri, 13 August 2004 13:01
		Litmus test for liberals By: AlostSOul on Fri, 13 August 2004 14:04
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Fri, 13 August 2004 14:14
		Litmus test for liberals By: Crimson on Fri, 13 August 2004 17:02
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Fri, 13 August 2004 17:12
		Litmus test for liberals By: Gizbotvas on Mon, 16 August 2004 13:12
		Litmus test for liberals By: Gizbotvas on Mon, 16 August 2004 13:13
		Litmus test for liberals By: Javaxcx on Mon, 16 August 2004 13:16
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Mon, 16 August 2004 14:42
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Mon, 16 August 2004 14:42
		Litmus test for liberals By: SuperFlyingEngi on Mon, 16 August 2004 15:03
		Litmus test for liberals By: Javaxcx on Mon, 16 August 2004 15:12
		Litmus test for liberals By: hareman on Mon, 16 August 2004 15:40
		Litmus test for liberals By: warranto on Mon, 16 August 2004 17:44
		Litmus test for liberals By: NukeIt15 on Mon, 16 August 2004 18:57
		Litmus test for liberals By: Javaxcx on Mon, 16 August 2004 19:25
		Litmus test for liberals By: Crimson on Mon, 16 August 2004 23:12
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Tue, 17 August 2004 06:46
		Litmus test for liberals By: Gizbotvas on Tue, 17 August 2004 09:38
		Litmus test for liberals By: Fabian on Tue, 17 August 2004 10:51
		Litmus test for liberals By: warranto on Tue, 17 August 2004 11:24
		Litmus test for liberals By: ViperFUD on Tue, 17 August 2004 11:47
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Tue, 17 August 2004 12:02
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Tue, 17 August 2004 12:20
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Tue, 17 August 2004 12:25
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Tue, 17 August 2004 12:37
		Litmus test for liberals By: Gizbotvas on Tue, 17 August 2004 12:58
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Tue, 17 August 2004 13:04
		Litmus test for liberals By: Gizbotvas on Tue, 17 August 2004 13:04
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Tue, 17 August 2004 13:09
		Litmus test for liberals By: warranto on Tue, 17 August 2004 13:10
		Litmus test for liberals By: SuperFlyingEngi on Tue, 17 August 2004 13:30
		Litmus test for liberals By: warranto on Tue, 17 August 2004 13:37
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Tue, 17 August 2004 14:10
		Litmus test for liberals By: NukeIt15 on Tue, 17 August 2004 14:53
		Litmus test for liberals By: warranto on Tue, 17 August 2004 15:29
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Tue, 17 August 2004 15:56
		Litmus test for liberals By: warranto on Tue, 17 August 2004 16:03
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Tue, 17 August 2004 16:09
		Litmus test for liberals By: warranto on Tue, 17 August 2004 17:22
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Tue, 17 August 2004 17:33
		Litmus test for liberals By: Fabian on Tue, 17 August 2004 17:57
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Tue, 17 August 2004 19:04
		Litmus test for liberals By: Hydra on Tue, 17 August 2004 19:51
		Litmus test for liberals By: warranto on Tue, 17 August 2004 19:56
		Litmus test for liberals By: warranto on Tue, 17 August 2004 21:22
		Litmus test for liberals By: Javaxcx on Wed, 18 August 2004 02:58
		Litmus test for liberals By: ViperFUD on Wed, 18 August 2004 04:32
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Wed, 18 August 2004 08:52
		Litmus test for liberals By: Javaxcx on Wed, 18 August 2004 09:19
		You 5. By: ViperFUD on Wed, 18 August 2004 09:48
		Litmus test for liberals By: warranto on Wed, 18 August 2004 11:28
		Litmus test for liberals By: Crimson on Wed, 18 August 2004 11:41
		Litmus test for liberals By: warranto on Wed, 18 August 2004 11:47
		Litmus test for liberals By: Javaxcx on Wed, 18 August 2004 11:57
		Litmus test for liberals By: Gizbotvas on Wed, 18 August 2004 14:13
		Litmus test for liberals By: Javaxcx on Wed, 18 August 2004 14:59
		Litmus test for liberals By: Hydra on Wed, 18 August 2004 19:36
		Litmus test for liberals By: Javaxcx on Wed, 18 August 2004 20:36
		Litmus test for liberals By: NHJ BV on Thu, 19 August 2004 00:16
		Litmus test for liberals By: NukeIt15 on Thu, 19 August 2004 11:43
		Litmus test for liberals By: Javaxcx on Thu, 19 August 2004 12:37
		Litmus test for liberals By: Phoenix - Aeon on Thu, 19 August 2004 13:40
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Thu, 19 August 2004 13:50
		Litmus test for liberals By: Crimson on Thu, 19 August 2004 16:36
		Litmus test for liberals By: SuperFlyingEngi on Thu, 19 August 2004 18:55
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Thu, 19 August 2004 18:57
		Litmus test for liberals By: NukeIt15 on Thu, 19 August 2004 19:14
		Litmus test for liberals By: Javaxcx on Thu, 19 August 2004 20:26
		Litmus test for liberals By: Phoenix - Aeon on Fri, 20 August 2004 04:19
		Litmus test for liberals By: ViperFUD on Fri, 20 August 2004 05:33
		Litmus test for liberals By: Doitle on Fri, 20 August 2004 11:15
		Litmus test for liberals By: Hydra on Fri, 20 August 2004 14:07
		Litmus test for liberals By: Fabian on Fri, 20 August 2004 16:46
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Fri, 20 August 2004 16:49
		Litmus test for liberals By: Hydra on Fri, 20 August 2004 19:44
		Litmus test for liberals By: NHJ BV on Sat, 21 August 2004 00:49
		Litmus test for liberals By: Javaxcx on Sat, 21 August 2004 03:02
		Litmus test for liberals By: Phoenix - Aeon on Sat, 21 August 2004 08:29

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