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Litmus test for liberals [message #108950]

Thu, 19 August 2004 12:37

Javaxcx
Messages: 1943
Registered: February 2003
Location: Canada, eh?

Karma:

General (1 Star)

NukeIt15

Actually, most of the "WMD" experts prefer to call them "Weapons of Mass Terror." They scare more people than they would ever be capable of killing.

A little off topic, but these same "weapons of terror" (however those "experts" want to define it) are probably what kept the United States and Russia from blasting each other. It pertains no relevance to Saddam, but condemning the same weapons (or at least having that kind of connotation) that probably saved all of our lives seems a bit strange.

Quote:

That said, Saddam was in posession of several weapon types that were forbidden to him, including several hidden long range interceptor aircraft and- surprise, surprise- mobile MRBM launchers(Russian-built ballistic missile systems more commonly known as SCUDs). He USED several of those missile launchers during the invasion.

I'm curious, could you get some proof about those MRBMs? It's not that I don't believe you, it's just I would prefer to have some confirmation.

As for the illegal weapons, it's true. He does/did have weapons deemed "illegal" by the United Nations. Read this, the 13th Quarterly Report from UNMOVIC. It should tell you exactly what Saddam still had in terms of illegal weapons reported to the UNMOVIC. But don't forget, these same people watching Saddam disarm were the same people that had to evacuate the country while doing their job only a day (I believe) before the S&A campaign. If you were in the same place as Iraq, would you keep disarming after and during a full scale invasion?

Quote:

Ok, so we have our madman, we have our "smoking gun"(or more accurately, smoking ballistic missile launchers), so why in the fuck are people trying to call off the search before finding the ammunition?

Heh, no one said anything about stopping the search. The United States and their allies went into Iraq for the reason to disarm those weapons. It's bad enough they by all definitions and semantics violated the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Iraq from March 19th 2003 onwards, but they can't simply pack up on go. It would be hypocritical and morally wrong to leave that society in more shambles than it was when Saddam was in power.

Quote:

Looking at this from the "objective" point of view that you people seem to brag about so much, doesn't it make a whole lot more sense to finish the search before drawing conclusions?

Well, it's equally arguable to say the same thing to the intelligence communities that screwed up, right?

Quote:

As for the France thing- You're damn right they were in it for personal gain. They were looking after their nation's interests just the same as we were.

I sincerely hope you haven't concluded that France and opposers to the war were in it for personal gain only. If you have, then I'm sorry to say but you are wrong. It might surprise you, but other people have principles as well, and they don't always revolve around money. Canada did not send their troops to Iraq, but we thus far have given over $300,000,000 to the Iraqi people for humanitarian reasons since this war began. We gain nothing from Saddam being in power, and risk quite a lot by not supporting one of our closest allies in their unlawful invasion.

Quote:

Neither side did what they did because "it was the right thing to do", they did it because it was what (they thought) was best for their country at the time.

You said "at the time". With Saddam out of power, and any influx of funds going to France because of Saddam (as so many people seem to believe) stopped, why aren't the French, in full force assisting in Iraq now (I'm NOT referring to the humanitarian efforts of the United Nations, btw)? Why isn't Canada? Why isn't Russia?

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[Updated on: Thu, 19 August 2004 14:17]

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[Message index]

		Litmus test for liberals By: Crimson on Wed, 04 August 2004 19:35
		Re: Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Wed, 04 August 2004 19:40
		Litmus test for liberals By: Fabian on Wed, 04 August 2004 20:54
		Litmus test for liberals By: Javaxcx on Wed, 04 August 2004 21:09
		Litmus test for liberals By: Crimson on Thu, 05 August 2004 00:04
		Litmus test for liberals By: NHJ BV on Thu, 05 August 2004 00:27
		^^^^^^^^^^ By: punkun21 on Thu, 05 August 2004 03:48
		Litmus test for liberals By: Fabian on Thu, 05 August 2004 05:03
		Re: ^^^^^^^^^^ By: NHJ BV on Thu, 05 August 2004 06:06
		Litmus test for liberals By: warranto on Thu, 05 August 2004 07:53
		Litmus test for liberals By: Javaxcx on Thu, 05 August 2004 11:00
		Litmus test for liberals By: Pak on Thu, 05 August 2004 11:21
		Litmus test for liberals By: SuperFlyingEngi on Thu, 05 August 2004 11:51
		Litmus test for liberals By: Pak on Thu, 05 August 2004 12:23
		Litmus test for liberals By: MrBob on Thu, 05 August 2004 13:00
		Litmus test for liberals By: Pak on Thu, 05 August 2004 13:52
		Litmus test for liberals By: SuperFlyingEngi on Thu, 05 August 2004 13:53
		Litmus test for liberals By: MrBob on Thu, 05 August 2004 15:04
		Litmus test for liberals By: Hydra on Thu, 05 August 2004 19:13
		Litmus test for liberals By: NHJ BV on Thu, 05 August 2004 23:26
		Litmus test for liberals By: Hydra on Thu, 05 August 2004 23:49
		Litmus test for liberals By: SuperFlyingEngi on Fri, 06 August 2004 07:24
		Litmus test for liberals By: Crimson on Fri, 06 August 2004 10:43
		Litmus test for liberals By: NukeIt15 on Sat, 07 August 2004 08:00
		Litmus test for liberals By: Javaxcx on Sat, 07 August 2004 08:03
		Litmus test for liberals By: setstyle on Sat, 07 August 2004 15:15
		Litmus test for liberals By: MrBob on Sat, 07 August 2004 16:20
		Litmus test for liberals By: NHJ BV on Sun, 08 August 2004 00:48
		Litmus test for liberals By: MrBob on Sun, 08 August 2004 02:02
		Litmus test for liberals By: NHJ BV on Sun, 08 August 2004 06:24
		Litmus test for liberals By: Crimson on Mon, 09 August 2004 09:57
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Mon, 09 August 2004 12:56
		Litmus test for liberals By: Hydra on Mon, 09 August 2004 14:22
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Mon, 09 August 2004 15:04
		Litmus test for liberals By: Crimson on Mon, 09 August 2004 16:03
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Mon, 09 August 2004 16:39
		Litmus test for liberals By: Doitle on Mon, 09 August 2004 20:34
		Litmus test for liberals By: NHJ BV on Mon, 09 August 2004 23:13
		foolios By: ViperFUD on Tue, 10 August 2004 04:34
		Litmus test for liberals By: Fabian on Tue, 10 August 2004 05:01
		Litmus test for liberals By: Hydra on Tue, 10 August 2004 11:32
		Litmus test for liberals By: Fabian on Tue, 10 August 2004 11:54
		Litmus test for liberals By: Gizbotvas on Tue, 10 August 2004 14:02
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Tue, 10 August 2004 14:24
		Litmus test for liberals By: Fabian on Tue, 10 August 2004 14:43
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Tue, 10 August 2004 14:44
		Litmus test for liberals By: Crimson on Tue, 10 August 2004 14:48
		Litmus test for liberals By: Fabian on Tue, 10 August 2004 14:53
		Litmus test for liberals By: SuperFlyingEngi on Tue, 10 August 2004 16:10
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Tue, 10 August 2004 16:15
		Litmus test for liberals By: Crimson on Tue, 10 August 2004 16:20
		Litmus test for liberals By: Fabian on Tue, 10 August 2004 17:18
		Litmus test for liberals By: Crimson on Tue, 10 August 2004 18:23
		Litmus test for liberals By: Doitle on Tue, 10 August 2004 19:45
		Litmus test for liberals By: NHJ BV on Wed, 11 August 2004 01:10
		Litmus test for liberals By: Fabian on Wed, 11 August 2004 04:53
		Litmus test for liberals By: Javaxcx on Wed, 11 August 2004 07:33
		Litmus test for liberals By: SuperFlyingEngi on Wed, 11 August 2004 09:27
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Wed, 11 August 2004 10:12
		Litmus test for liberals By: Javaxcx on Wed, 11 August 2004 10:40
		Litmus test for liberals By: Crimson on Wed, 11 August 2004 10:48
		Litmus test for liberals By: Hydra on Wed, 11 August 2004 18:29
		Litmus test for liberals By: NHJ BV on Thu, 12 August 2004 01:16
		Litmus test for liberals By: SuperFlyingEngi on Thu, 12 August 2004 05:13
		Litmus test for liberals By: Gizbotvas on Thu, 12 August 2004 08:23
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Thu, 12 August 2004 08:30
		Litmus test for liberals By: Fabian on Thu, 12 August 2004 10:23
		Litmus test for liberals By: Crimson on Thu, 12 August 2004 10:35
		Litmus test for liberals By: Gizbotvas on Thu, 12 August 2004 10:44
		Litmus test for liberals By: Gizbotvas on Thu, 12 August 2004 10:50
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Thu, 12 August 2004 11:16
		Litmus test for liberals By: NukeIt15 on Thu, 12 August 2004 13:24
		Litmus test for liberals By: Crimson on Thu, 12 August 2004 14:11
		Litmus test for liberals By: warranto on Thu, 12 August 2004 16:09
		Litmus test for liberals By: Javaxcx on Fri, 13 August 2004 03:28
		Litmus test for liberals By: ViperFUD on Fri, 13 August 2004 04:32
		Litmus test for liberals By: Javaxcx on Fri, 13 August 2004 05:13
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Fri, 13 August 2004 06:28
		Litmus test for liberals By: Javaxcx on Fri, 13 August 2004 06:32
		Litmus test for liberals By: NukeIt15 on Fri, 13 August 2004 07:23
		Litmus test for liberals By: Gizbotvas on Fri, 13 August 2004 12:41
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Fri, 13 August 2004 13:01
		Litmus test for liberals By: AlostSOul on Fri, 13 August 2004 14:04
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Fri, 13 August 2004 14:14
		Litmus test for liberals By: Crimson on Fri, 13 August 2004 17:02
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Fri, 13 August 2004 17:12
		Litmus test for liberals By: Gizbotvas on Mon, 16 August 2004 13:12
		Litmus test for liberals By: Gizbotvas on Mon, 16 August 2004 13:13
		Litmus test for liberals By: Javaxcx on Mon, 16 August 2004 13:16
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Mon, 16 August 2004 14:42
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Mon, 16 August 2004 14:42
		Litmus test for liberals By: SuperFlyingEngi on Mon, 16 August 2004 15:03
		Litmus test for liberals By: Javaxcx on Mon, 16 August 2004 15:12
		Litmus test for liberals By: hareman on Mon, 16 August 2004 15:40
		Litmus test for liberals By: warranto on Mon, 16 August 2004 17:44
		Litmus test for liberals By: NukeIt15 on Mon, 16 August 2004 18:57
		Litmus test for liberals By: Javaxcx on Mon, 16 August 2004 19:25
		Litmus test for liberals By: Crimson on Mon, 16 August 2004 23:12
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Tue, 17 August 2004 06:46
		Litmus test for liberals By: Gizbotvas on Tue, 17 August 2004 09:38
		Litmus test for liberals By: Fabian on Tue, 17 August 2004 10:51
		Litmus test for liberals By: warranto on Tue, 17 August 2004 11:24
		Litmus test for liberals By: ViperFUD on Tue, 17 August 2004 11:47
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Tue, 17 August 2004 12:02
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Tue, 17 August 2004 12:20
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Tue, 17 August 2004 12:25
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Tue, 17 August 2004 12:37
		Litmus test for liberals By: Gizbotvas on Tue, 17 August 2004 12:58
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Tue, 17 August 2004 13:04
		Litmus test for liberals By: Gizbotvas on Tue, 17 August 2004 13:04
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Tue, 17 August 2004 13:09
		Litmus test for liberals By: warranto on Tue, 17 August 2004 13:10
		Litmus test for liberals By: SuperFlyingEngi on Tue, 17 August 2004 13:30
		Litmus test for liberals By: warranto on Tue, 17 August 2004 13:37
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Tue, 17 August 2004 14:10
		Litmus test for liberals By: NukeIt15 on Tue, 17 August 2004 14:53
		Litmus test for liberals By: warranto on Tue, 17 August 2004 15:29
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Tue, 17 August 2004 15:56
		Litmus test for liberals By: warranto on Tue, 17 August 2004 16:03
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Tue, 17 August 2004 16:09
		Litmus test for liberals By: warranto on Tue, 17 August 2004 17:22
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Tue, 17 August 2004 17:33
		Litmus test for liberals By: Fabian on Tue, 17 August 2004 17:57
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Tue, 17 August 2004 19:04
		Litmus test for liberals By: Hydra on Tue, 17 August 2004 19:51
		Litmus test for liberals By: warranto on Tue, 17 August 2004 19:56
		Litmus test for liberals By: warranto on Tue, 17 August 2004 21:22
		Litmus test for liberals By: Javaxcx on Wed, 18 August 2004 02:58
		Litmus test for liberals By: ViperFUD on Wed, 18 August 2004 04:32
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Wed, 18 August 2004 08:52
		Litmus test for liberals By: Javaxcx on Wed, 18 August 2004 09:19
		You 5. By: ViperFUD on Wed, 18 August 2004 09:48
		Litmus test for liberals By: warranto on Wed, 18 August 2004 11:28
		Litmus test for liberals By: Crimson on Wed, 18 August 2004 11:41
		Litmus test for liberals By: warranto on Wed, 18 August 2004 11:47
		Litmus test for liberals By: Javaxcx on Wed, 18 August 2004 11:57
		Litmus test for liberals By: Gizbotvas on Wed, 18 August 2004 14:13
		Litmus test for liberals By: Javaxcx on Wed, 18 August 2004 14:59
		Litmus test for liberals By: Hydra on Wed, 18 August 2004 19:36
		Litmus test for liberals By: Javaxcx on Wed, 18 August 2004 20:36
		Litmus test for liberals By: NHJ BV on Thu, 19 August 2004 00:16
		Litmus test for liberals By: NukeIt15 on Thu, 19 August 2004 11:43
		Litmus test for liberals By: Javaxcx on Thu, 19 August 2004 12:37
		Litmus test for liberals By: Phoenix - Aeon on Thu, 19 August 2004 13:40
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Thu, 19 August 2004 13:50
		Litmus test for liberals By: Crimson on Thu, 19 August 2004 16:36
		Litmus test for liberals By: SuperFlyingEngi on Thu, 19 August 2004 18:55
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Thu, 19 August 2004 18:57
		Litmus test for liberals By: NukeIt15 on Thu, 19 August 2004 19:14
		Litmus test for liberals By: Javaxcx on Thu, 19 August 2004 20:26
		Litmus test for liberals By: Phoenix - Aeon on Fri, 20 August 2004 04:19
		Litmus test for liberals By: ViperFUD on Fri, 20 August 2004 05:33
		Litmus test for liberals By: Doitle on Fri, 20 August 2004 11:15
		Litmus test for liberals By: Hydra on Fri, 20 August 2004 14:07
		Litmus test for liberals By: Fabian on Fri, 20 August 2004 16:46
		Litmus test for liberals By: Nodbugger on Fri, 20 August 2004 16:49
		Litmus test for liberals By: Hydra on Fri, 20 August 2004 19:44
		Litmus test for liberals By: NHJ BV on Sat, 21 August 2004 00:49
		Litmus test for liberals By: Javaxcx on Sat, 21 August 2004 03:02
		Litmus test for liberals By: Phoenix - Aeon on Sat, 21 August 2004 08:29

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