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| Re: Details of some of the features in 4.0 [message #404695 is a reply to message #404693] |
Wed, 30 September 2009 21:24   |
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GEORGE ZIMMER
Messages: 2605
Registered: March 2006
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| liquidv2 wrote on Wed, 30 September 2009 23:20 |
new players don't have the patience to stick around and figure out why everyone else seems to be able to buy vehicles, all they can see is that they're poor and that everyone else has things and they eventually grow tired of dying repeatedly and go somewhere else
i've watched it happen; i don't know if you've even played in a pointmodded server, because all you're saying is something that works in theory and not in practice
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If it doesn't work in practice, then suggest something DIFFERENT rather than this or that. There's more than two options...
Toggle Spoiler| Scrin wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 13:22 |
| cAmpa wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 12:45 |
Scrin, stop pming people to get the building bars.
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FUCK YOU AND THIS SHIT GAME WITH YOUR SCRIPTS!!! I HAVE ASKING YOU AND ANOTHER NOOBS HERE ABOUT HELP WITH THAT BUILDING ICONS FEATURES FOR YEARS, BUT YOU KEEP IGNORING ME AND KEEP WRITE SHIT, SO BURN YOU AND YOUR ASSLICKERS FRIENDS, THIS TIME I'M NOT COME BACK!!!!!!!!!   
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| Re: Details of some of the features in 4.0 [message #404697 is a reply to message #404687] |
Wed, 30 September 2009 21:25 |
rcmorr09
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Registered: June 2003
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| Spoony wrote on Thu, 01 October 2009 00:13 |
| jonwil wrote on Wed, 30 September 2009 23:07 |
If and when an option to turn it off is added is a decision that we (as in TT) have not yet made
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um... yes it is made actually, both mac and myself have agreed that it ought to be optional.
certainly the pointsfix can replace the current state as the default points system, but there ought to be an option, even if it's something as simple as somebody making a "reverse pointsfix" to download and install, which would just re-create the original bug.
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I like what you have to say.
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| Re: Details of some of the features in 4.0 [message #404713 is a reply to message #404614] |
Wed, 30 September 2009 23:28 |
FlaminGunz
Messages: 171
Registered: November 2007
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well for one its a points mod and not a points fix
when many poeple dont want this so called 'fix' surely its a ludicrous idea to force it on people...
it just asking for trouble without neccessity. If it were to actually fix something such as the many bugs then yes make it mandatory, but when it just modifies something that alot of people really dont want... well surely you can see why it should not be mandatory
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| Re: Details of some of the features in 4.0 [message #404715 is a reply to message #404614] |
Wed, 30 September 2009 23:37 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9761
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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| Quote: |
and the only people that seem to do well are the people who know what they're doing in general
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And that totally should NOT happen in Renegade!  People who have a clue shouldn't be doing better than people who don't. I'm going to split this topic, once again. It's a debate on its own.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
[Updated on: Wed, 30 September 2009 23:45] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Points fix debate number 5.598 [message #404729 is a reply to message #404614] |
Thu, 01 October 2009 01:27 |
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tellsson
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Location: Melmac
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i think the biggest problem is:
if players have the choice between a server with pointmod and a server without pointmod they will join the servers without pointmod.
ppls like to buy stuff. they wanna have action, but if they cant earn enough money in a fast way for "bigger" weapons then they wont play. we saw that on jelly aow1 as the pointmod was on. after a few months our server was almost empty. (i.e. a normal saturday-afternoon. usually we had a full server, like 20 vs 20, but with the pointmod we had suddenly only like 5 vs 5.) therefor it did fill our other servers wich didnt use the poinmod.
the only way to change this condition was that we included the weapon-spawn. after that, jelly 1 was attractive enough for the players and it filled our server again.
and so...
pointmod????
greetz telly ^^
my youtube. http://www.youtube.com/user/1b2en
TnG #5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8U9d6ZwjMvQ << Nod pwns (Trance)
TnG #6 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0O3NEQ_RGo << We can do it (Metal)
[Updated on: Thu, 01 October 2009 01:28] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Details of some of the features in 4.0 [message #404731 is a reply to message #404713] |
Thu, 01 October 2009 01:52 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915
Registered: January 2006
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| sgipo wrote on Thu, 01 October 2009 01:28 |
well for one its a points mod and not a points fix
when many poeple dont want this so called 'fix' surely its a ludicrous idea to force it on people...
it just asking for trouble without neccessity. If it were to actually fix something such as the many bugs then yes make it mandatory, but when it just modifies something that alot of people really dont want... well surely you can see why it should not be mandatory
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it's a conclusively established fact that the pointsfix is what the original renegade points system was supposed to be. there's just a bug in the way that was not intended and not noticed in time to be fixed.
however, the main point is a no-brainer, in my view. TT came to a decision long ago on this. we're all in favour of the pointsfix, we all conclusively acknowledge the fact that it is the original renegade points system, we unequivocally are of the opinion that it improves gameplay and we think it ought to have pride of place on the official ladder... but we also decided that if a community really wants to keep the pointsbug in the servers they pay for, they ought to have that option.
(i could mention the fact that when i try to exercise this choice in my projects and say: "yes, i do want to use the pointsfix here" a great many of the anti-pointsfix crowd suddenly wish there was no choice in the matter after all, though this behaviour doesn't really alter the essential point)
jonwil is, i think, simply unaware that this was decided some time ago.
the solution is obvious to me: by all means include the pointsfix in the scripts package, by all means include it in the TT patch... but at the same time, somebody make a "Pointsbug" file that a server can download and install, that will re-create the original bug. surely the black-intel guys can do this? just make a backward-pointsfix?
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: Points fix debate number 5.598 [message #404735 is a reply to message #404614] |
Thu, 01 October 2009 02:42 |
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if/when we make this optional, it wont be by any kind of "pointsbug" file or anything. It will be an official server option settable via some kind of config file.
Jonathan Wilson aka Jonwil
Creator and Lead Coder of the Custom scripts.dll
Renegade Engine Guru
Creator and Lead Coder of TT.DLL
Official member of Tiberian Technologies
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| Re: Points fix debate number 5.598 [message #404739 is a reply to message #404735] |
Thu, 01 October 2009 04:23 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915
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when. not if. tt's already agreed upon this. if you were unaware of that, then ok, now you know and we've averted a drama before it started.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: Points fix debate number 5.598 [message #404743 is a reply to message #404614] |
Thu, 01 October 2009 04:48 |
Raber
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Registered: October 2009
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No pointsfix please, don't force hundreds of players who have played this game for years to give up their style of play. They game is thoroughly unenjoyable when you can't play it the way you want to, and there are a great deal of oldschool people for whom the game would become thoroughly unenjoyable if the pointsfix became mandatory. TT is supposed to bring new life to renegade, not help kill it off even more.
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| Re: Points fix debate number 5.598 [message #404772 is a reply to message #404614] |
Thu, 01 October 2009 07:50 |
raven
Messages: 595
Registered: January 2007
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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| EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Thu, 01 October 2009 07:11 |
LULZ at everyone complaining about pointfix. Tell me, how do you notice that the pointfix is ON? Except by asking the serverowner?
I'm sure that half of the people that complain don't even know.
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It's as simple as shooting the harvy with an autorifle...
-Jelly Administrator
-Exodus Administrator
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| Re: Points fix debate number 5.598 [message #404773 is a reply to message #404768] |
Thu, 01 October 2009 07:51 |
masterkna
Messages: 69
Registered: October 2008
Location: The Abyss, NY
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so does that mean that unless one goes through and read that post, their opinion is invalid?
I for one think that the points fix should be optional.
 | GEORGE ZIMMER wrote on Wed, 26 August 2009 |
Then again, banning anyone for anything automatically makes you a biased prick who shouldn't be a moderator.
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lol
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| Re: Points fix debate number 5.598 [message #404778 is a reply to message #404773] |
Thu, 01 October 2009 08:50 |
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Dover
Messages: 2547
Registered: March 2006
Location: Monterey, California
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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| masterkna wrote on Thu, 01 October 2009 07:51 |
so does that mean that unless one goes through and read that post, their opinion is invalid?
I for one think that the points fix should be optional.
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You might as well be saying nation-wide health care is a bad idea without knowing all the facts. Sure, you have the right to, I suppose. But you don't look like any less of an idiot for doing so.
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
Remember kids the internet is serious business.
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| Re: Points fix debate number 5.598 [message #404790 is a reply to message #404773] |
Thu, 01 October 2009 10:11 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915
Registered: January 2006
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| masterkna wrote on Thu, 01 October 2009 09:51 |
so does that mean that unless one goes through and read that post, their opinion is invalid?
I for one think that the points fix should be optional.
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i think she's just referring to the large number of people who have argued against the pointsfix based on entirely incorrect assumptions.
to clarify: we're not talking about people's "opinions" here, we're talking about things people put forward as "facts" which turned out to be completely wrong.
that doesn't really happen anymore, the anti-pointsfix crowd has lost too many arguments to keep trying that, so the argument has just boiled down to "but we prefer this", which is, of course, irrefutable.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: Points fix debate number 5.598 [message #404799 is a reply to message #404790] |
Thu, 01 October 2009 10:46 |
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Dover
Messages: 2547
Registered: March 2006
Location: Monterey, California
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General (2 Stars) |
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| Spoony wrote on Thu, 01 October 2009 10:11 |
that doesn't really happen anymore, the anti-pointsfix crowd has lost too many arguments to keep trying that, so the argument has just boiled down to "but we prefer this", which is, of course, irrefutable.
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It's also not a valid arguement, so boo on the anti-pointfix crowd.
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
Remember kids the internet is serious business.
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| Re: Points fix debate number 5.598 [message #404826 is a reply to message #404799] |
Thu, 01 October 2009 12:56 |
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tellsson
Messages: 107
Registered: May 2009
Location: Melmac
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| Dover wrote on Thu, 01 October 2009 19:46 |
| Spoony wrote on Thu, 01 October 2009 10:11 |
that doesn't really happen anymore, the anti-pointsfix crowd has lost too many arguments to keep trying that, so the argument has just boiled down to "but we prefer this", which is, of course, irrefutable.
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It's also not a valid arguement, so boo on the anti-pointfix crowd.
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well, my point is valid. ask the jelly server owners/admins/mods.
greetz telly ^^
my youtube. http://www.youtube.com/user/1b2en
TnG #5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8U9d6ZwjMvQ << Nod pwns (Trance)
TnG #6 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0O3NEQ_RGo << We can do it (Metal)
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| Re: Points fix debate number 5.598 [message #404858 is a reply to message #404854] |
Thu, 01 October 2009 16:13 |
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RadioactiveHell
Messages: 175
Registered: August 2009
Location: San Antonio, TX
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| liquidv2 wrote on Thu, 01 October 2009 17:36 |
| SoQRadio wrote on Thu, 01 October 2009 16:07 |
I think the pointsfix should be mandatory. If this is the case, I think gameplay in public servers will increase because it will encourage ppl to buy tanks over infantry. That way they can actually be useful to their team.
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you shouldn't have to force that though, it should just be presented as an option
if a server doesn't want to use it they should have a choice to not use it, and it should be simple
as a result they could be penalized or ultimately excluded from the TT ladder, but if they're fine with that then who really cares
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Fair enough.
| liquidv2 wrote on Thu, 01 October 2009 17:36 |
just because you entirely disagree with the way some people play doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to play that way, especially if it's not even in your server
what if a server used a mod to make all vehicles fly and people enjoyed playing with it? would you be in support of something that would make it impossible for them to use it even if it had nothing to do with you? i don't understand why everyone has to conform to the ideal image of renegade if they don't want to
just let them have their fun, even if it's not your idea of fun
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The way people are playing is killing the game for server regulars/more experienced players. This is certainly the case from my experience playing smaller games on Exodus. For example, when every1 wants to tunnel snipe on field (and then type in team chat "LOL WE TOOK TUNNELS!!11!") instead of buying vechs and taking the field...ppl get pissed.
I dont know if pointsfix fixes this, but if people have more incentive to help their team, that seems like a good thing imo.
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