Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » RenegadeX-Pre-release --> "Is the GDI/Nod autorifle thing balanced?" debate
| Re: RenegadeX-Pre-release --> "Is the GDI/Nod autorifle thing balanced?" debate [message #402000 is a reply to message #401985] |
Mon, 07 September 2009 14:35   |
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JohnDoe
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Fobby[GEN] wrote on Mon, 07 September 2009 14:54]| JohnDoe wrote on Mon, 07 September 2009 15:43 |
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Fobby[GEN] wrote on Mon, 07 September 2009 13:57]We've already voiced our position: we believe the MRLS has been adjusted to properly balance with the Nod Artillery, which therefore makes the obvious imbalance between GDI and Nod soldiers obsolete and unnecessary. All in all, this is a beta, and therefore it will be tested as that's the whole point of the beta release.
If you think balancing a vehicle with its counterpart will somehow flip the game on its backside, freeze over hell, and change the axis of the earth, then please either voice your concerns after you have tested the mod properly, or simply stick with W3D Renegade, as that will not change.
This should probably be locked because we've said everything that needs to be said on our part, and we've heard the arguments for having unbalanced soldiers, which we believe are obsolete.
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100% agreed, BUT you have to change the point system ASAP if you want truely balanced gameplay. The Ramjet shouldn't be the most effective weapon in the game!
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Are you talking about the Ramjet's damage or the points? We've already expressed that certain things will be fixed/changed with the points system, which include Ramjets - they won't be getting many points for shooting at a Mammy, for example.
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Well, the Ramjet is the most extreme case, but it's the same problem with other weapons. Regular soldiers getting ridiculous amounts of points/money for shooting a harvester at a distance when an Engineer or Grenadier get almost nothing for actually damaging it. Another idiotic scenario is people waiting to blow their remotes until the APC/Buggy/etc shoots a harvester down to yellow - makes no sense at all to someone who's never played Renegade.
This is what I wrote in the other thread:
If you want to have a lower chance of alienating non-Renegade players from your mod, don't have them wondering why the team with only 1 building left is gaining on points even though the other team is controlling the entire map or why people on GDI are trying to get Nod to destroy the WF on Field as quickly as possible...making this mod without the pointsfix would be a HUGE mistake.
Please, just implement the pointsfix. Renegade is flawed in many aspects, so this project shouldn't be an exact copy - this we both agree on. The game mode is what makes us all love this game, not the physics, graphics, netcode, unit balance (Tibsidney is worth 150? Patch is worth more than Gunner?), the point system nor the aforementioned idiotic tactics it produced.
lol
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| Re: RenegadeX-Pre-release --> "Is the GDI/Nod autorifle thing balanced?" debate [message #402140 is a reply to message #402115] |
Tue, 08 September 2009 18:08 |
Muad Dib15
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| Ryan3k wrote on Tue, 08 September 2009 15:00 |
| kadoosh wrote on Tue, 08 September 2009 13:48 |
| CarrierII wrote on Tue, 08 September 2009 02:51 |
I've been pointing out this whole thing is theoretical for about 5 days...
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Clearly they have chosen to reject your logic, and apply their own. HOLY SHIT LET'S ALL START PISSING ABOUT SOMETHING THAT WE DON'T KNOW IF IT'S A PROBLEM OR NOT!!!!
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Welcome to renforums!
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LMAO!!!!
| Fobby wrote on Mon, 07 September 2009 13:57 |
This is a beta, and therefore it will be tested as that's the whole point of the beta release.
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Jesus, how dense are you guys to not get this yet?
*smacks people responsible with a trout*
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[Updated on: Tue, 08 September 2009 18:11] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: RenegadeX-Pre-release --> "Is the GDI/Nod autorifle thing balanced?" debate [message #402147 is a reply to message #402025] |
Tue, 08 September 2009 19:49 |
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R315r4z0r
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| liquidv2 wrote on Mon, 07 September 2009 23:56 |
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Imo, I don't think they should implement Renegade's pointfix.
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why not? it's easier for them to code and easier for everyone to understand because it's mathematically sound
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Why not? Read the line after the one you quoted. The answer is in the same post.
| liquidv2 wrote on Mon, 07 September 2009 23:56 |
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People should be awarded for effort, not damage.
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that's like saying "It's the thought that counts" in a case where it clearly does not
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Clearly how? People who put their effort into acting together with their team to accomplish the task at hand should be rewarded more points than someone sitting at the front of the GDI base in an artillery with a paperweight strapped on their mouse button.
It also fixes it so that no-lifers aren't the only people who can grab a seat in the high-score rankings.
Winning the game should be about destroying the enemy team's base. Points are just a fallback. I think that the more damage a vehicle is able to cause, the less points it should get.
| liquidv2 wrote on Mon, 07 September 2009 23:56 |
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(Speaking of which, Artilleries shouldn't get as many points as they do in Renegade because of their uncanny ability to attack a single structure for long periods of time.)
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artillery get lots of points because they do lots of damage; they are slow and light-armored as a result, and get chewed up by even GDI soldiers (which, by the way, do considerably more damage than Nod soldiers)
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But, taking Renegade as a Beta build of Renegade X, Artilleries are obviously THE top ranking vehicles for scoring the most amount of points with the least amount of effort. They should give you a lot of points for the damage they can cause. However, they currently give too much. Just because you lower the points they get, doesn't mean that they wont end up getting a lot.
Their armor shouldn't have anything to do with it. However, what should play a part is how long the vehicle's range is. Longer ranged vehicles should get smaller amounts of points, even if they do pack a punch, they are likely to stay alive and earn more than close ranged vehicles.
[Updated on: Tue, 08 September 2009 19:55] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: RenegadeX-Pre-release --> "Is the GDI/Nod autorifle thing balanced?" debate [message #402150 is a reply to message #402147] |
Tue, 08 September 2009 20:16 |
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alaguee
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title=R315r4z0r wrote on Tue, 08 September 2009 21:49]| liquidv2 wrote on Mon, 07 September 2009 23:56 |
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Imo, I don't think they should implement Renegade's pointfix.
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why not? it's easier for them to code and easier for everyone to understand because it's mathematically sound
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Why not? Read the line after the one you quoted. The answer is in the same post.
that's like saying "It's the thought that counts" in a case where it clearly does not[/quote]
Clearly how? People who put their effort into acting together with their team to accomplish the task at hand should be rewarded more points than someone sitting at the front of the GDI base in an artillery with a paperweight strapped on their mouse button.
It also fixes it so that no-lifers aren't the only people who can grab a seat in the high-score rankings.
But, taking Renegade as a Beta build of Renegade X, Artilleries are obviously THE top ranking vehicles for scoring the most amount of points with the least amount of effort. They should give you a lot of points for the damage they can cause. However, they currently give too much. Just because you lower the points they get, doesn't mean that they wont end up getting a lot.
Their armor shouldn't have anything to do with it. However, what should play a part is how long the vehicle's range is. Longer ranged vehicles should get smaller amounts of points, even if they do pack a punch, they are likely to stay alive and earn more than close ranged vehicles.
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omg no! I teched many many veicles in game and 1 thing to find is arty is weak. why you say armor not nothing to do with it...?? so it can be counterattacked!!!! i think if artillery is attacking building then U got to go kill it...if u don't then I think you desever it!! it is not strong vehicle. you cannot individual mess with damage/points cuz then u fully ruin whole game.
also u seems to dislike people in arty. why??? why dislike them and call [no-lifers] when they only play the game!!!!! u know anyone who get arty and go on his own mostly get killed!! That's why u need expert repaireers. Like me! so we work in team and repair and kill base.
so u can do BOTH!! u can do crazy apc rushes and also shooting the enemy buildingss. it is all the game tactics!! this is like communist...u jealous of guys getting points in tanks so you wanna sink him and bring him low! awfull wrong.
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| Re: RenegadeX-Pre-release --> "Is the GDI/Nod autorifle thing balanced?" debate [message #402151 is a reply to message #402147] |
Tue, 08 September 2009 20:20 |
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Spoony
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| R315r4z0r wrote on Tue, 08 September 2009 21:49 |
Clearly how? People who put their effort into acting together with their team to accomplish the task at hand should be rewarded more points than someone sitting at the front of the GDI base in an artillery with a paperweight strapped on their mouse button.
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one would think the artillery user would be rather quickly killed in this situation?
| R315r4z0r wrote on Tue, 08 September 2009 21:49 |
Winning the game should be about destroying the enemy team's base. Points are just a fallback.
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you have the option of marathon games if this is what you think.
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| Re: RenegadeX-Pre-release --> "Is the GDI/Nod autorifle thing balanced?" debate [message #402153 is a reply to message #400864] |
Tue, 08 September 2009 20:48 |
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RadioactiveHell
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I agree that the GDI and Nod soldiers should do equal damage, and that the MRLs and Art should be more equal. I also think it best to have the Ren point fix enabled.
The only person in opposition to the point fix is r4z0r, who says he wants an unspecified different type of point system. As someone who has not played UT3, could you be more specific with your suggestion?
In responce to the argument about Arty's doing too much damage, Arty's obviously have shit armor. The only way an Arty survives is if it is being teched constantly which requires a decent amount of teamwork on the part of Nod. Thus, your argument that points should be determined by "effort" rather than amount of damage is null, because the act of keeping an arty alive in itself requires a great deal of effort.
[Updated on: Tue, 08 September 2009 20:49] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: RenegadeX-Pre-release --> "Is the GDI/Nod autorifle thing balanced?" debate [message #402167 is a reply to message #402157] |
Tue, 08 September 2009 23:25 |
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Goztow
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| liquidv2 wrote on Wed, 09 September 2009 06:11 |
you're an idiot; stop trying
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I think Liquid and I finally start agreeing on something!
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I think that the more damage a vehicle is able to cause, the less points it should get.
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Maybe we could give points to people that are running towards an enemy building, then? They're putting a lot of effort in reaching the enemy base without doing damage. Yup: they'd definitely need to get a lot of points!
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: RenegadeX-Pre-release --> "Is the GDI/Nod autorifle thing balanced?" debate [message #402176 is a reply to message #400864] |
Wed, 09 September 2009 01:23 |
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I think we're being too critical, and not reading carefully enough. (If one pays attention in a certain subforum, R3 is dyslexic).
I think he means that because it's not HARD to get lots of points in an art (point and click), you should get less. (IE, art should score less for whoring because it's too easy to do).
Or, more generally, the game rewards the wrong strategies, perhaps best exemplified by the fact that the tech supporting the art will get ~300 points to the art's 3000+. Maybe less for the tech, if the art isn't being attacked (Say, Islands: Art --> GDI Ref).
He's probably right, the correct (IMO, anyways) scoring system would probably be exponential, on how your points are earned. The more you whore the building (This is codable also, simply look at how many points a player has earned in what way in the last few shots (won't work for the flamer though - but that doesn't tend to be a whoring vech...)) the less you should earn for it, the first shell should give 30, the next 29.9995 (Rounded up to 30), the next 29.9990 (Also up to 30) etc (The numbers are arbitrary, it's the principle).
Also, for other situations, such as the repair gun, it would be better to make the points earned on a scale which GROWS exponentially, thus techs are rewarded for sticking with a boring, but useful and indeed essential job. (And helps to prevent seiges, as the same techs will be pulling in more points than the shelling team)
Thus, it will not pay to, in the long run, just be satisfied with pinning GDI in (Field is a prime example), because eventually the MRLS or meds being used in defense will be making more points than your whoring. You should've used the tenish minutes that you had to get a rush together. It would create more active gameplay, because a seige would ultimately fail. That does however need to balanced, a seige shouldn't be useless instantly. Ten minutes is ample to create a rush or try to make their techs/hotwires run around (Say, Hourglass, I've lost count of the number of games I've won as Nod where we shell the ref, then the WF, then the PP, and the hotwires aren't coordinated and at least one goes down).
It would prevent stagnation of gameplay, which would, as a further side note, appeal to UT3 players, as that has very active gameplay, with no real pitched battles, everything keeps moving.
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| halokid wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 08:46 |
| R315r4z0r wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 15:35 |
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the hell is that?
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[Updated on: Wed, 09 September 2009 01:27] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: RenegadeX-Pre-release --> "Is the GDI/Nod autorifle thing balanced?" debate [message #402178 is a reply to message #400864] |
Wed, 09 September 2009 01:39 |
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Goztow
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Where you're wrong, IMO, is in assuming that it is somehow wrong to take the field with artilleries and camp a building. If GDI can't get the necessary combination of vehicles / infantry to destroy this art / tech combo, then they earn to loose the game.
Why would Nod need to change a working strategy? It's up to GDI to force them to change their strategy. It's not as if arts with techs are overpowered. They can be countered by a lot of GDI combo's. A team that's strategically loosing should be... indeed loosing on points.
There's no reason why a "loosing team" should have an advantage over a "winning team". If you'd really want this, then why don't you just give the team with the least points a 3 credits per second income and the team with most points a 2 credits per second income. Then at least it's clear what the advantage is, and why.
It's unneeded and quite impossible to make the game more offensive than when damage == points.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: RenegadeX-Pre-release --> "Is the GDI/Nod autorifle thing balanced?" debate [message #402189 is a reply to message #400864] |
Wed, 09 September 2009 04:30 |
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JohnDoe
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| CarrierII wrote on Wed, 09 September 2009 03:23 |
I think we're being too critical, and not reading carefully enough. (If one pays attention in a certain subforum, R3 is dyslexic).
I think he means that because it's not HARD to get lots of points in an art (point and click), you should get less. (IE, art should score less for whoring because it's too easy to do).
Or, more generally, the game rewards the wrong strategies, perhaps best exemplified by the fact that the tech supporting the art will get ~300 points to the art's 3000+. Maybe less for the tech, if the art isn't being attacked (Say, Islands: Art --> GDI Ref).
He's probably right, the correct (IMO, anyways) scoring system would probably be exponential, on how your points are earned. The more you whore the building (This is codable also, simply look at how many points a player has earned in what way in the last few shots (won't work for the flamer though - but that doesn't tend to be a whoring vech...)) the less you should earn for it, the first shell should give 30, the next 29.9995 (Rounded up to 30), the next 29.9990 (Also up to 30) etc (The numbers are arbitrary, it's the principle).
Also, for other situations, such as the repair gun, it would be better to make the points earned on a scale which GROWS exponentially, thus techs are rewarded for sticking with a boring, but useful and indeed essential job. (And helps to prevent seiges, as the same techs will be pulling in more points than the shelling team)
Thus, it will not pay to, in the long run, just be satisfied with pinning GDI in (Field is a prime example), because eventually the MRLS or meds being used in defense will be making more points than your whoring. You should've used the tenish minutes that you had to get a rush together. It would create more active gameplay, because a seige would ultimately fail. That does however need to balanced, a seige shouldn't be useless instantly. Ten minutes is ample to create a rush or try to make their techs/hotwires run around (Say, Hourglass, I've lost count of the number of games I've won as Nod where we shell the ref, then the WF, then the PP, and the hotwires aren't coordinated and at least one goes down).
It would prevent stagnation of gameplay, which would, as a further side note, appeal to UT3 players, as that has very active gameplay, with no real pitched battles, everything keeps moving.
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So the underappreciated tech stops repairing the pointwhoring art, leaving the art vulnerable and pointwhoring less desirable - your so-called problem solves itself. In the real world, I believe there are enough players on servers busy with repair duty, so stop trying to fix something that isn't broken.
I just hope the devteam will listen to what competitive players are saying about balancing once the beta is out...after all, we are the ones that dictate the gameplay by using the tools a game provides in the most effective manner - it just takes average players longer to catch on.
lol
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| Re: RenegadeX-Pre-release --> "Is the GDI/Nod autorifle thing balanced?" debate [message #402228 is a reply to message #402151] |
Wed, 09 September 2009 09:53 |
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R315r4z0r
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| Spoony wrote on Tue, 08 September 2009 23:20 |
| R315r4z0r wrote on Tue, 08 September 2009 21:49 |
Clearly how? People who put their effort into acting together with their team to accomplish the task at hand should be rewarded more points than someone sitting at the front of the GDI base in an artillery with a paperweight strapped on their mouse button.
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one would think the artillery user would be rather quickly killed in this situation?
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People complain when I make really long posts that explain, in detail, what I'm trying to describe. So, lately, I've been trying to say the main ideas and take it that the people reading what I'm posting are intelligent enough to understand a hyperbole when they see one. (It's an exaggeration of the truth that is used to help convey an idea or point.)
| Spoony wrote on Tue, 08 September 2009 23:20 |
| R315r4z0r wrote on Tue, 08 September 2009 21:49 |
Winning the game should be about destroying the enemy team's base. Points are just a fallback.
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you have the option of marathon games if this is what you think.
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No, Marathon games are different. You can't fall back on points in a Marathon game. In a Marathon game, you have to destroy the enemy base. In a normal game you just have to try your best to destroy the enemy base. What I was trying to explain was a way to make it so people wont get fed up and rely on their points to win a match.
Perhaps an alternate idea would be to make it so that people can't see their points earned at all. If someone doesn't know if they are winning or not, then they are most likely going to keep giving their full effort.
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an arty will do full damage to a building but get less points, but the people repairing the building will get full points for repairing it
how much are you talking about slashing it, hopefully not more than half? if so then you're giving the enemy the points you earned from damaging it right back to them
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That's a given, don't you think? It just be retarded to change the balance that way.
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long-ranged vehicles are able to do more damage from further away, but in order to achieve this they must stay back or they will quickly be destroyed by short-ranged vehicles
it's like you're saying that kills from a ramjet should be worth less than kills with a mobius gun because it's easier to get more kills with a ramjet; it makes no fucking sense, and it would offset the game if they tried to implement a system that gives points out based on shit that doesn't have to actually happen in the game
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You keep saying things like "it makes no sense" or "the game wont work like that," but I have yet to see a single reason for that point. Why wont it work? Why doesn't it make sense? Give me an example of why you think that?
It makes perfect sense to me and it doesn't seem very game breaking or play altering. People would play the same way regardless of the points they gain (within obvious reason, of course).
As for what Carrier said: He understands the basis of what I'm saying. In fact, he explained it better than I did.
Things that are easy to do shouldn't reward you as much as things that are harder to do. That's my bases of what I'm trying to say. The ideas I've been coming up with in the thread aren't necessarily ideas I'm essentially keen on myself. They are just examples of what may or may not play to what I have in mind.
Also, to make something clear, I have no problem with people artillery camping. I find it a fun scenario on both sides, especially on GDI's side trying to figure out ways to break their lines. But what I'm trying to explain is that artillery camping is probably the easiest and most effective strategy in the game, and coincidentally, the most point rewarding strategy as well. Something easy shouldn't give you the most points (unless it's something of importance, such as repairing a structure or friendly unit.)
[Updated on: Wed, 09 September 2009 09:55] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: RenegadeX-Pre-release --> "Is the GDI/Nod autorifle thing balanced?" debate [message #402229 is a reply to message #402178] |
Wed, 09 September 2009 10:22 |
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| Goztow wrote on Wed, 09 September 2009 09:39 |
Where you're wrong, IMO, is in assuming that it is somehow wrong to take the field with artilleries and camp a building. If GDI can't get the necessary combination of vehicles / infantry to destroy this art / tech combo, then they earn to loose the game.
Why would Nod need to change a working strategy? It's up to GDI to force them to change their strategy. It's not as if arts with techs are overpowered. They can be countered by a lot of GDI combo's. A team that's strategically loosing should be... indeed loosing on points.
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There are plenty of working strategies to counter arts and techs. You learn them all after about a month, and try to get other people to use them for the rest of the playing time*. It's not that taking the field is wrong, it's that taking the field, and then pointing and clicking for the rest of the game is... boring.
Just trying to force action, with the suggestions I posted, that's all.
*: Let me expand. A lot of them (The med pinwheel, for example) require far more cooperation than it does for PAIRS of people to get an art and a tech between them. A med pinwheel requires say 8 meds, driven together out of the base, whilst hotwires are still in the building. More to the point, a lot of the counter strategies require far more cooperation than is typically avilable.
Having said all of that; RenX has the advantage of being able to create strategy videos, and "How-to-play" videos, which will educate the UT3 players as to the basic strategies, and even some more complex ones. That would raise the standard of teamwork for a start.
The second half of your post is good. I just do dislike it when gameplay becomes three people on GDI trying to convince the rest of the team to try X or Y strategy, and everyone else just fucks off into the tunnels, or uses soldiers. Or, God forbid, Mammoths.
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| halokid wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 08:46 |
| R315r4z0r wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 15:35 |
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the hell is that?
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[Updated on: Wed, 09 September 2009 10:30] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: RenegadeX-Pre-release --> "Is the GDI/Nod autorifle thing balanced?" debate [message #402241 is a reply to message #402229] |
Wed, 09 September 2009 12:03 |
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Starbuzzz
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| CarrierII wrote on Wed, 09 September 2009 12:22 |
I just do dislike it when gameplay becomes three people on GDI trying to convince the rest of the team to try X or Y strategy, and everyone else just fucks off into the tunnels, or uses soldiers. Or, God forbid, Mammoths.
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But that's not the game's fault is it?
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Blaming the game and trying to change settings because the common idiots don't understand the gameplay mechanics and don't cooperate is not just silly but also disastrous.
Of the hundreds (possibly thousand?) of games I played on Field as GDI on the public servers, the one most critical failure that GDI almost always does when attempting to break up a Arty siege is NOT focusing their fire on 1 Art at a time. You have 2 guys in 2 Meds waiting to take down a Art...they move out...1 Med shoots the first Art and the other idiot Med shoots the other fucking Art. What the fuck? Both Meds get raped. And the players with the Havocs that could have helped here are just too damn busy in the tunnels jerking off over their K/D.
And that's just 1 example of public server douchebaggery.
The whole problem is coming from public players and on public servers where cooperation is very low and communication and coordination is minimal at best. Even on 30+ player count servers, there seems to be only only 5-6 people on each team that know how to play.
Most of these siege standaoffs occur because obviously 1 team did not play well enough to get vehicles first in the field. And did not spend their money wisely. Then you have a host of random idiots that kill whore the tunnels oblivious to the damage they are doing to their team...including the SBH's that play with themselves while waiting for a new weapon to spawn.
You have this minority of players that know what they are doing with the majority either new to the game, learning to play, or just simply stupid. So this ends up creating pockets of skilled players mixed up with the randomites. So the skill levels are extremely uneven. Sometimes you end up with equal number of good players on each sides but this is not always guaranteed.
So anyway it all comes down to the competitive players that really play the game the way it is to be played using the right strats and teamplay. In a nutshell, if these guys feel something needs to be changed, then it probably needs to be. If they don't feel anything is wrong, then there is obviously no problem.
What is the point of my rant? Pretty much this: You cannot make any changes to the gameplay based on gameplay data gathered from public server games. There are way too many variables that will mislead. So the gameplay data worth looking at is from clanwars type games played by the competitive players.
| Goztow wrote on Wed, 09 September 2009 13:44 |
The easiest thing to do in Renegade is repairing, yet it seems to me you propose to give a lot of points for this, compared to other things. Repairing is as boring as camping, yet you find it more "valuable"? Or am I seeing this wrong?
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I propose 30 points per player per Proximity Mine dropped since the player is helping to protect the building!!!!!!!!!11!!!!!1!!11!!111 
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| Re: RenegadeX-Pre-release --> "Is the GDI/Nod autorifle thing balanced?" debate [message #402253 is a reply to message #402229] |
Wed, 09 September 2009 14:20 |
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JohnDoe
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| CarrierII wrote on Wed, 09 September 2009 12:22 |
More to the point, a lot of the counter strategies require far more cooperation than is typically avilable.
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...and Art/tech combos require more cooperation than a random group of Havocs sniping everything that leaves Nod's base...boo hoo.
You can just tell that Carrier and that R3guy haven't really figured out the nuances of Renegade gameplay...I just hope the RenX developers will find the balance of listening to constructive criticism without making the mistake of rating popular opinion over professional opinion.
lol
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| Re: RenegadeX-Pre-release --> "Is the GDI/Nod autorifle thing balanced?" debate [message #402257 is a reply to message #402240] |
Wed, 09 September 2009 14:51 |
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| Goztow wrote on Wed, 09 September 2009 19:44 |
The easiest thing to do in Renegade is repairing, yet it seems to me you propose to give a lot of points for this, compared to other things. Repairing is as boring as camping, yet you find it more "valuable"? Or am I seeing this wrong?
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How often do you get engi support on a RANDOM public (where you ARE NOT known)? I would suggest perhaps once in five tries. The ramining four being deaths for your vech. (NOTE: these are estimates, not, for obvious reasons, accurate statistics - they serve to illustrate the point)
Pawky, it is the game's fault if they see they get more points with a solider than a PIC - how is anyone supposed to know that the game is broken and this is the wrong thing to do. You'd only find out if you went online, and read a load of text on ramdom wikis. How many players are going to want to do that? Not many, it's a game - broken games are a relative rarity (Or, better put, the best selling games are rarely broken, leading to a misconception amongst gamers who play the larger titles that games are tested and working).
Furthermore, telling everyone to aim at the artillery on the left (standard strategy, it's the first in view, apparently I don't know this so someone else has posted this in here) isn't going to get everyone doing that. Once again, the game does not make it obvious that that is the way to go. This can be fixed by educating the playing public, that's easier for RenX, UT players are used to tutorial gameplay videos, make one of those for the basics, and more for the advanced, and the average cooperation will rise (Also, VoIP is standard in UT3).
Also, you are correct (Data from public servers has too many confounding variables), but then trip yourself up over which data we should look at. CW games are played between 8 people at most, often just 4. Totally different strategies apply in larger servers, if you want proof, try singlehandedly beaconing a structure using hummer/buggy (a potential strategy in a smaller game, due to less resistance and less chance at getting seen) in a 40+ player server. Player count also influences strategy.
You're correct, there is no problem if it were obvious that the "pro" strategies are the best move. It isn't, that is the problem, and this is why I'm suggesting some ideas (many of which are not meant to be taken seriously or in their entirety or their present form, and were just ideas, don't get
worked up, I'm not on the RenX dev) which may help to make the better strategies more obvious, as well as promoting constructive behaviour, like repairing. Of course, the ultimate answer is in education, and a better multiplay tutorial would be ideal. (Hint, RenX, hint).
JohnDoe, I'll repsond to you when you post actual content (Something I can reply to), and not just ad hominem. OK? (Havocs on first harvester? I though CW settings were quite tight on the old finances)
Utterly boring moderator's point - we're still off topic, this is supposed to be about whether the GDI/Nod 7 vs 5 autorifle thing is balanced. Goztow is right, it's about harvesters, and it should stay as it is.
Renguard is a wonderful initiative
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| halokid wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 08:46 |
| R315r4z0r wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 15:35 |
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the hell is that?
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[Updated on: Wed, 09 September 2009 14:57] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: RenegadeX-Pre-release --> "Is the GDI/Nod autorifle thing balanced?" debate [message #402261 is a reply to message #402240] |
Wed, 09 September 2009 17:01 |
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R315r4z0r
Messages: 3836
Registered: March 2005
Location: New York
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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| Goztow wrote on Wed, 09 September 2009 14:44 |
The easiest thing to do in Renegade is repairing, yet it seems to me you propose to give a lot of points for this, compared to other things. Repairing is as boring as camping, yet you find it more "valuable"? Or am I seeing this wrong?
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Repairing structures is of more importance mainly because structures dictate how your team will play for the rest of the match. Offense is less important because whether you succeed or fail in your attack, there is no negative team-wide repercussions for your faction.
Like, if your arty siege fails, the worst that happens is that you lost your invested credits as opposed to if your defensive strategy fails you lose structures in your base.
| CarrierII wrote on Wed, 09 September 2009 17:51 |
Utterly boring moderator's point - we're still off topic, this is supposed to be about whether the GDI/Nod 7 vs 5 autorifle thing is balanced. Goztow is right, it's about harvesters, and it should stay as it is.
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I don't think so. I actually don't think there is any balance reason as to why the rifles are different. They are different for the sake of being different, basically. I don't think Westwood put any (or much) thought into balancing the damages.
[Updated on: Wed, 09 September 2009 17:03] Report message to a moderator |
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