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Re: Fix outside PTs? [message #385393 is a reply to message #346646] Sun, 10 May 2009 09:19 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
liquidv2 is currently offline  liquidv2
Messages: 3407
Registered: February 2007
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General (3 Stars)
Chuck Norris wrote on Sun, 10 May 2009 04:11

liquidv2 wrote on Sat, 09 May 2009 05:25

the fact is you'd rather sit here and talk about renegade than actually play renegade; you can blame it on the fact that strange things like purchase terminals working outside of buildings keep you from wanting to play but in the end i really don't care in the slightest because this patch will not affect you andi don't care about your opinion on it since you can't even be bothered to play the game
You sit here and ridicule me for typing out something related to the subject, and here is a whole paragraph doing only two things, acting high and mighty, and belittling me for something irrelevant, as I already said.

In my opinion my opinion matters more than yours on the subject because, like you said, you do not play the game and will probably not play the game in the future. The reasons for you wanting the purchase terminals to not work outside are, to me, nullified by the fact that you do not play. You are one of the many people who would rather type out forum essays about Renegade than actually play Renegade, and that says a lot to me.


Quote:

1. Come at me with an argument, not a brush aside. You're clearly losing this. I've played the game, and know the situation. I'm giving reasons and backing. You're not.

I'm not losing anything, especially if you say I am. All you are saying is that purchase terminals working outside of buildings ruins game balance, but you are not providing examples. I can if need be, but I don't feel I have to explain anything to you since you don't even play the game and the changes that will be applied to it will not be applied to you. In a way I feel you are wasting my time and the time of everyone who will actually be playing Renegade if and when the patch comes out.


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2. While time will still be a concern, and I doubt I'll play regularly every day for a good deal of time again, I will spend more time on it if this actually does anything that makes the game better.
liquidv2 wrote on Sat, 09 May 2009 05:25

it's not a horrible exploit if everyone knows it's there and is able to use it, and like ghostshaw said it accidentally helps out in key places
Okay, cheats apply to all of that too.

For some reason people who support everything in the TT patch like to compare everything wrong with the game to cheating. Trying to compare using outside purchase terminals to cheating is you trying to sound smart by saying something incredibly stupid. If in your eyes they are both equally bad for the game then I have nothing to say to you; you are an idiot. I will assume (hope really) that this is not what you mean and that you are not an idiot.


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Rather than saying it's good because everyone knows about it (which isn't exactly true), and because it helps, give some reasons, perhaps some regarding, you know, gameplay and balance, since it destroys aspects of them, on why it should be/stay. It wasn't intended to be, and destroys balance, and your argument is "it helps in a few situations". Sure it does, but by awarding an otherwise unwarranted advantage.

On the weapons factory you can access a terminal from near the bay; you can also access an outside purchase terminal on the airstrip, so no balance is lost. Neither team can access purchase terminals outside of powerplants or refineries. You can access a purchase terminal outside of the obelisk, but on the AGT you have to take the extra 5 steps into the building. The Hand of Nod has no available outside PTs, but the GDI barracks is accessible from the back. I believe this is the only thing you have going for your argument of outside PTs destroying balance, though on the map Field both teams have a PT close to the tunnel because of it. The maps that help GDI would be non-base defense maps including Islands and Complex (Volcano is small enough that it will not matter). City and City_Flying are not maps that GDI is aided by the PTs on the barracks, and Walls and Walls_Flying have the buildings close enough together that it once again does not greatly help GDI if it helps GDI at all. On Canyon GDI can hide in the barriers behind the barracks and attempt to refill and fire out while the base is under siege, but the space is so limited that there's nowhere to hide from enemy fire and the player will be killed. Like I said previously, if you remove the outside PTs Renelife will still go on, but one thing I would like to point out about Islands and Complex is that Nod tends to win 2 out of 3 times or close to that on each map when the pointmod is applied to a server with players in it, so perhaps awarding GDI that extra little advantage would only help them against their pre-determined uphill battle.


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liquidv2 wrote on Sat, 09 May 2009 05:25

you really just like to hear yourself talk, and this is shown by your ridiculously long posts about a game you don't even play
I can't help but think you're getting desperate when you attack me, and on something so silly as my writing style.

I'm not desperate in the slightest; I'm merely observing. You are more than welcome to think what you want, though.


Quote:

liquidv2 wrote on Sat, 09 May 2009 05:25

purchase terminals working outside of buildings is not a huge problem; it's not even really a problem at all, unless your view is that anything and everything should be fixed and that people should now be forced to play the game in a way that you think it was meant to be released originally as if it's some sort of punishment for playing the game the way they have for the past 7+ years
Not a problem at all?! Oh, now your ignorance shows. As I said first thing in my previous post, is that it destroys balance! If you don't see this, then you clearly must know a whole lot about a game you've been playing "7+ years", right? Balance is one of Renegade's strengths. If this patch is supposed to help (and perhaps make grow) Renegade, I'm not sure how this is helping. You're trading balance, and in your own words, almost ignoring it (which is scary), for self convenience (laziness and/or unwarranted advantages) and a "it's always been that way" line. Wow, what a reason for it to stay. I wouldn't care so much if it stayed and a good reason was given, but I see none, while I see balance being destroyed, which is a pretty big issue. You're trading balance for convenience, and this is my main point, one that people seem to have an issue identifying.

I did not claim to have played the game for 7+ years. I don't remember back past 2006 but I do remember seeing my stats on some ladder ranking thing somewhere from November of 2005. My wolrank from when the ladder froze is 1081, so in the grand scheme of things I'm newer than the oldschool players but older than most of the current players. I hope you realize that the chance of Renegade growing at this point is slim to none, and that the best chance to keep the game alive would be leaving it the way it was to please the few players who are still left. If too much unwanted change is applied, for whatever reasons, you risk driving players away. This patch could unintentionally be the bucket of water poured on the dying Renegade fire, but people don't seem to understand that. I find it amazing to play Renegade and see how well the game balances itself out, even if it didn't originally intend to. Your argument is that anything and everything should be fixed in the game; I prefer to examine everything and form my own opinion based on what I know and the arguments presented. Having PTs accessible from outside of a building does in my mind not ruin the balance I've observed and played in for years, but my opinion highly differs from yours. To each his own.


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The wit in this comment is quote ironic and hypocritical. It's obvious to see this wasn't intended, yet you claim I'm the one who just wants it the way I personally want. There's two major sides here, and unfortunately, because it's already in place, even though it's flawed, it'll be left be. Alternate patch or not, what's default is what will ultimately end up being the standard. This is why I'd like to see it default.

Either way Renelife will go on, but I'd rather see it stay in.


Quote:

The points fix bug was mandatory (which I do agree with), yet it received controversy. The poll results shouldn't have decided this. If they didn't, and the team internally decided this (with no regard to the results), then this thread should never have been made, and the discussion should have just been left to be as it was in the other thread. The poll may be over, and the word may have even been given on what's going to happen as far as it goes, but I see no reason to silence the discussion because of that.

The pointmod makes Renegade less fun for a lot of people. You can argue that it's only because they enjoy abusing glitches, but there are other reason for it than that. I disagree with a lot of aspects of the original points system but when it comes down to it, having played hundreds if not thousands of games in both points systems, I prefer the original. It is not noob-friendly, and it results in more lopsided and one-sided games. People are fine with that because they feel that's the way a game should go, but I prefer a game where the losing team still has something going for it. The pointmod compliments my playing style more than the original points system does, but I would much rather play with it off.


Quote:

Sorry for caring about it. The fact that I don't play as often yet still want to see things through only shows how much more I care. Stop acting like your opinion is better because you play the game. At least my view is backed up with legitimate reasons. You just keep saying "it doesn't change anything" when it does, "it's a hassle" while that's true, but so is reloading and ammo limits, and "you don't play the game" which is irrelevant, especially when it's overshadowed by the fact that you're losing to me as far as reasons go.

Though, predictably come at me again about my post length or the fact that I don't play the game as your argument if you don't have any.

The main difference between you and me is that I do play Renegade and I will play Renegade if and when this patch is released. You have your reasons why you feel the way you do, and I've told you mine. If you disagree that's completely fine; you are fully entitled to your opinion. Cuna would say Have a nice day

liquidv2

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