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Re: Jesus [message #217820 is a reply to message #217757]

Thu, 07 September 2006 02:09

Scythar
Messages: 580
Registered: February 2003
Location: Finland

Karma:

Colonel

Hydra wrote on Wed, 06 September 2006 20:12

Let's take a look, however, at some other species that are almost as old as the human race and also exhibits a semblence of a society among members: the wolf.
Wolves are pack animals. They travel in groups so their chances of surviving in harsh conditions are better. They hunt in groups because they have learned that they have remarkable strengths in numbers; a small group of wolves could fight with a large bear, which would easily win in a one-on-one situation, and still emerge victorious simply because there were more wolves than the bear could handle. Wolves will fight viciously to protect their young; otherwise, the group cannot grow and will eventually die out. Wolves even have a bit of a heirarchy as to who is in charge, apparent in the leadership of the largest male, called the alpha male.
Yet these wolves do not necessarily share the same emotions humans do for one another. Do wolves experience or even know love? Of course not. They are driven by instinct and the need to survive. When an old and weak alpha male is challenged and beaten by a younger, faster, and stronger male, do the other wolves tend to the beaten wolf and lick his wounds? Of course not! They ostracize him from their society because he has been beaten by a wolf better than him.
In fact, it would be detrimental to the wolf pack if they kept the old dog because he would become a burden on the pack.
If I'm not mistaken, they do similar things not just to beaten alpha males but also their sick, decrepit, and physically handicapped. Think a wolf without a sense of smell carries much value to a wolf pack?

Wolves aren't driven by the instinct of survival alone. As I claimed in my earlier post, no species are. It's not possible. The fact that wolves are living in packs alone means that they trust the other members of the pack. They live in the wild, and in constant danger of starvation. They don't have the luxury of tending their weaker members. If they start caring for the weak, their whole pack is likely to die.

Put it this way: would you save a mans life if it meant your whole family had high chances of getting killed because of it? Would you seriously place your friends and sisters life on the line because you want to save some individual? It's easy to judge like that when you're sitting there in a safe society, but just look into any warfield and you'll see that we human don't act any differently than animals when our lifes are in serious danger.

Quote:

So what evolutionary sense would it make for us humans, who, apparently, are no better than other animals since we are animals ourselves, to care for our sick; to care for our elderly; to try to fix genetic disorders that are present in our gene pool; to try to fix foreign societies; to help our poor; to feel emotions that make us care about one another?

Again, sacrificing yourself for others and sacrificing others for yourself are in balance in nature. As I said in my previous post, too much of either will mean the end of a species. We are capable of compassion because we live in a safe world, so other species who actually have to fight for their existence seem brutal to us.

Quote:

If you accept this world at face value and close your mind to all possible religion and accept no higher purpose other than to live for yourself, there is no reason to care about the suffering of others. You are supposed to sit back and let mother nature run her course through the human race and kill off those who are weak, who are debilitated, and who are of no value to society.

That's not necessary for as long as our survival isn't threatened by compassion.

I think it like a line:

Instinct of                                      compassion,
survival,    ------------------------1-------2---sacrificing
sacrificing  ------------------------1-------2---yourself for
others for                                       others.
yourself.

#1 is where we are, #2 is where most animals are. Animals have a lot more instinct of survival than us, and on the other hand, we have more compassion.

Also, how about this:

I have a dog, Sere, a german shepherd. We often play around, not by just throwing a ball but by teasing each others, e.g. I try to pinch his tail and he tries to evade and bites me gently. However, sometimes he bites too hard and I shout, and he immediately stops the play and comes close, tries to lick my hand and face, how do you explain that? And no, I don't punish him with pain when he does something wrong, so it's not fear of a punishment.

There's a hole in the sky through which things can fly.

[Updated on: Thu, 07 September 2006 03:42]

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