Home » General Discussions » General Discussion » Re: Should the community have a "say"?
| Re: Should the community have a "say"? [message #313949] |
Sat, 26 January 2008 23:12  |
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| Do you support this proposal?[ 33 votes ] |
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Yes, and I would pay money to have a say |
 3 / 9% |
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Yes, but I won't pay to have a say |
8 / 24% |
| 3. |
No, but if I had money I might |
1 / 3% |
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I don't care either way |
9 / 27% |
| 5. |
No, I don't like this idea |
12 / 36% |
Following my post in the thread, I'm going to further explain what I put out here as a suggestion:
| myself |
If Crimson were to agree to it, I think she should let people know roughly what she spends a month on the bills, and then people collectively pay that. Then the ones who donate, would then be given "votes" (based on how much you donate). Only then should we be able to be guaranteed a say in the moderation and administration.
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I do think this would be a very good idea for the Renegade Forums. I (believe I) have some good reasons for why I support this. They are as follows:
- This would give the community to the members
- It would make most people shut the fuck up and stop thinking they deserve a say
- It would help cut down costs for Crimson
- This may make people actually desire to put more into the community if they're paying for it
This is just the initial idea, and if we find that most people like it (and if Crimson accepts this proposal), we can further figure out how this "democracy" could work. I know we've tried to suggest something like this before and it went to shit, but I figure that we may be able to get somewhere this time.
NOTE: This is not a judgment of Crimson's administration. I am not suggesting that this would be a guaranteed better alternative to her administration, but this could potentially benefit our community. I think it's worth a shot.
This poll is strictly to see what the community as a whole thinks. This poll isn't meant to necessarily sway Crimson, and the results of this poll (if in favor of this idea) does not guarantee Crimson's support or cooperation.
Libertarian Party | The King's Throne | The Soda Shop
[Updated on: Sat, 26 January 2008 23:28] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Should the community have a "say"? [message #313959 is a reply to message #313949] |
Sat, 26 January 2008 23:46  |
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Viking
Messages: 1692
Registered: July 2005
Location: Earth
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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"Oh so just because this rich dumb ass over there has more money then me his opinion matters more?"
/thread.
QUOTES
"The Renegade community revolves around having something awesome, and not sharing it so you can be on top of the mountain." -Canadacdn
| Crimson wrote on Thu, 17 May 2007 05:22 |
| Memphis wrote on Tue, 15 May 2007 03:54 |
...fatally die to death...
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I don't know if you meant to do that, but triple redundancy for teh win. I LOL'ed.
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Awesome l337 people= Icedog90, Blazea58, Canadacdn, Crimson, jonwil
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| Re: Should the community have a "say"? [message #313965 is a reply to message #313949] |
Sun, 27 January 2008 00:34 |
Rocko
Messages: 833
Registered: January 2007
Location: Long Beach, California
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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yeah, if someone thinks differently than the majority of the forums and if we don't like him enough and have enough spare money to give, lets just go ahead and ban him
black and proud
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| Re: Should the community have a "say"? [message #313967 is a reply to message #313949] |
Sun, 27 January 2008 00:52 |
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That's not how I would envision it working. Us having a say wouldn't be in necessarily who gets banned, but who are the moderators, the rules and the enforcement of the rules. Plus, it wouldn't be, "whoever wants a say in this vote donates money". It'd be more or less like a corporation. The more money (stock) you have into a corporation, the more say you have in the goals of the company and the board members.
Libertarian Party | The King's Throne | The Soda Shop
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| Re: Should the community have a "say"? [message #313970 is a reply to message #313949] |
Sun, 27 January 2008 01:18 |
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Blazer
Messages: 3322
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars)
Administrator/General |
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Sadly the nature of "communities" on the internet is they are all take and no give. As in they will gladly use any and all resources provided for them, but when it comes to contributing anything real, especially money, they remain silent, either because they actually don't really care, or they assume that the problem will get solved without their help. These are usually the same people that complain the loudest.
Pretty similar to people who bitch about the government, yet they do not register to vote, but will gladly stand in line for welfare 
EDIT: P.S. Since you started the poll, I assume there is something you want a "say" in? If not, can you give examples of what you think people might want a say in (forum themes, who to ban, what software to run)? Just wondering 
[Updated on: Sun, 27 January 2008 01:20] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Should the community have a "say"? [message #313973 is a reply to message #313949] |
Sun, 27 January 2008 01:24 |
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That's why I had this proposal. If people want to take control, then they should have to contribute. Just as American citizens, we need to pay for the services that we benefit from.
Obviously, Crimson could just as easily install a script/mod onto these forums that would make it subscription-based, but she has chosen not to. She wants to make it free, and here are people bitching about not having control. Well, if they want that control, then they should have to pay or shut the fuck up.
If people want something changed, they need to do it. If this proposal is successful, it proves the community is willing to step up. If this proposal isn't successful because of the lack of support, then we have something to wave in the faces of anybody who bitches and ignored the opportunity to actually have a say. It's easy to be an armchair quarterback. It's easy to know what the government *should* do. It's not so easy to put forth the effort to make it a reality.
Edit: Like any normal person, I want to have a piece of control in the community that I'm a part of. Obviously, there's a lot of stupid shit that goes on in these forums. Not that you guys are necessarily failing in that, I feel that there'd be a wider support of order if more of the community had a say. The people who would pay to have a say would be contributing factors in the community. People would be less likely to disobey rules if they will get banned for their misconduct.
If you pay for something rather than have it given to you, you're going to be more apt to not want to destroy it. If you're that sadistic, then you have problems. Most people are going to want to utilize what they pay for. If people can have a say that they paid for, they're going to care more.
As for what people would/should be able to have a say in, well... More or fewer moderators, more up-to-date rules of conduct, the overall decisions that may be better over a widespread vote of respected individuals, new ideas for the forums, etc...
Libertarian Party | The King's Throne | The Soda Shop
[Updated on: Sun, 27 January 2008 01:31] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Should the community have a "say"? [message #313987 is a reply to message #313949] |
Sun, 27 January 2008 02:17 |
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Blazer
Messages: 3322
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars)
Administrator/General |
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Note that although Crimmy does pay a lot of money for things for the community, I don't think she expects or wants anything in return. Oh I'm sure it would be nice if people donated, and some have in the past, and she was grateful and it was a help.
However, I doubt that she would be interested in "selling out", and basically allowing people to use "bribes" to get what they want. I know this is not what you are talking about, but I'm sure the thought has or will crossed other peoples minds.
Fortunately, Crimmy is pretty open-minded, and if there is anything that the community wants that she can provide without damaging or upsetting the majority, she usually does it, free of charge.
I guess what I'm saying is, the community already does have a say...just speak up. Of course that doesn't mean you can say "hey I want Plecos' as the background for the forums", and have it done, but if you have an idea or suggestion that makes sense and others agree with, I see no reason why it wouldn't be do-able.
I believe in the past there were public polls for moderators as well as the forum rules of conduct.
[Updated on: Sun, 27 January 2008 02:17] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Should the community have a "say"? [message #313989 is a reply to message #313949] |
Sun, 27 January 2008 02:25 |
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If you make the payments be on a vote-by-vote basis, sure it'd be selling out. That's not what would happen if we were to go with my suggestion. They wouldn't be paying to get their way. They'd be paying to have more of a voice. You wouldn't be bribing a corporation's Board of Directors if you bought stock, would you? Of course not, and this would work the same way.
It's not really so much to get a lot of things changed necessarily, either. It's more or less the principle of "citizens" or "stock holders" having a say. Sure, you or I as a consumer have a say in how we want a company to handle the selling of its product. If enough of us choose to take our business elsewhere, the company is going to change. Still, they're not the ones making the decisions.
Another idea of even having a "buy-in" for a "Board of Directors" of these forums would work, too. Crimson and the rest of you staffers would be able to interview and pick the representatives of the community as a whole.
I'm just throwing out ideas. I can't really say that I have much of a complaint against how things are run, so it's hard to say what "good" a change would be. Again, I think a lot of it has to do with just being the principle of a community being ran by a collective of the community, especially a collective that are fairly diverse in their views.
Libertarian Party | The King's Throne | The Soda Shop
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| Re: Should the community have a "say"? [message #314033 is a reply to message #313949] |
Sun, 27 January 2008 09:50 |
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luv2pb
Messages: 1488
Registered: February 2004
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star)
Not everything is as it appears
Untouchable |
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Not to be harsh but this place isn't worth a damn. If I'm going to pay for something on the internet it isn't going to be this. Reneagdeforums could go off tomorrow and I don't think it would really matter all that much.
The dynamic of moderating this site is a cluster fuck. It is a secondary thing to every member of the staff. Crimson is not the type of person to throw down when people get stupid or things get rough. We don't have that problem at n00bstories because that is where I step in. She doesn't have a luv2pb here. Then you couple that with the fact that 99% of the members really could care less if they got banned and you get renegadeforums.
N00bstories Director Of Operations
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| Re: Should the community have a "say"? [message #314041 is a reply to message #314033] |
Sun, 27 January 2008 10:49 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9717
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 12
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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| luv2pb wrote on Sun, 27 January 2008 17:50 |
Not to be harsh but this place isn't worth a damn. If I'm going to pay for something on the internet it isn't going to be this. Reneagdeforums could go off tomorrow and I don't think it would really matter all that much.
The dynamic of moderating this site is a cluster fuck. It is a secondary thing to every member of the staff. Crimson is not the type of person to throw down when people get stupid or things get rough. We don't have that problem at n00bstories because that is where I step in. She doesn't have a luv2pb here. Then you couple that with the fact that 99% of the members really could care less if they got banned and you get renegadeforums.
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You really shouldn't talk for other people.
About the topic: I think it's going well with Crimson on 'top'. If u give the 'power' to too many people, things will really get effed.
A bit more moderating is good, that doesn't mean u need to suddenly make it an "open source community"...
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
[Updated on: Sun, 27 January 2008 10:50] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Should the community have a "say"? [message #314099 is a reply to message #313949] |
Sun, 27 January 2008 16:00 |
Speedy059
Messages: 367
Registered: August 2003
Karma: 0
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Commander |
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There are plenty of people are able to host this forum for free. If there is a lot of money needed to host this forum and it can't be payed for, then it should just be moved. But I know that's not the issue. It would be a nice gesture to donate, but I don't see why it's so necessary to start an uproar of getting people to donate when it's not needed.
Oldest Renegade Repository (10yrs worth of maps!)
http://renegade.dmehosting.com/
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| Re: Should the community have a "say"? [message #314103 is a reply to message #314033] |
Sun, 27 January 2008 16:11 |
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Blazer
Messages: 3322
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars)
Administrator/General |
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| luv2pb wrote on Sun, 27 January 2008 09:50 |
Not to be harsh but this place isn't worth a damn. If I'm going to pay for something on the internet it isn't going to be this. Reneagdeforums could go off tomorrow and I don't think it would really matter all that much.
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Tell us how you really feel
| luv2pb wrote on Sun, 27 January 2008 09:50 |
The dynamic of moderating this site is a cluster fuck. It is a secondary thing to every member of the staff.
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Ummm I'll have you know that I log into these forums at *least* half a dozen times a day, and every time I am dealing with spam, reported messages, and the like. In fact, the FIRST thing I did when I woke up today was come here, just to read you announcing that moderation is secondary...LOL
| luv2pb wrote on Sun, 27 January 2008 09:50 |
Crimson is not the type of person to throw down when people get stupid or things get rough. We don't have that problem at n00bstories because that is where I step in. She doesn't have a luv2pb here.
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I'd have to partially agree with you there...Crimmy is a bit soft-hearted and often either won't lay the smack down when she should, or she let's them talk their way out of it. Fortunately, I have no problem with banning fucktards, as you saw with my recent bannings of the Plecos-posters.
| luv2pb wrote on Sun, 27 January 2008 09:50 |
Then you couple that with the fact that 99% of the members really could care less if they got banned and you get renegadeforums.
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That may be part of the above problem, they know that even if they get banned, they can sweet-talk their way out of it, or they just go and play Habbo Hotel while they wait for their ban to expire 
If you are fed up with the spam and such that you see, try to remember that what you are seeing is only what is slipping by the mods, and that includes with me logging in throughout the day everyday. Believe me, its much more frustrating on this end, as you have no idea the amount of crap that we have been cleaning up. If you are frustrated at the level of moderation, by all means apply to be a mod, and join the clusterfuck I'll even make sure you get into the credits this time
[Updated on: Sun, 27 January 2008 16:14] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Should the community have a "say"? [message #314143 is a reply to message #314103] |
Sun, 27 January 2008 19:01 |
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luv2pb
Messages: 1488
Registered: February 2004
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star)
Not everything is as it appears
Untouchable |
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Alright spoony you asked for it.
| Blazer wrote on Sun, 27 January 2008 18:11 |
| luv2pb wrote on Sun, 27 January 2008 09:50 |
Not to be harsh but this place isn't worth a damn. If I'm going to pay for something on the internet it isn't going to be this. Reneagdeforums could go off tomorrow and I don't think it would really matter all that much.
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Tell us how you really feel
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Don't get me wrong. This place has good qualities and I do enjoy coming here but my Renegade world wouldn't shatter if I got a 404.
| Blazer wrote on Sun, 27 January 2008 18:11 |
| luv2pb wrote on Sun, 27 January 2008 09:50 |
The dynamic of moderating this site is a cluster fuck. It is a secondary thing to every member of the staff.
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Ummm I'll have you know that I log into these forums at *least* half a dozen times a day, and every time I am dealing with spam, reported messages, and the like. In fact, the FIRST thing I did when I woke up today was come here, just to read you announcing that moderation is secondary...LOL
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That isn't what I meant. Many of the staff have primary "homes" or "jobs" within their own communities. For example Crimson has n00bstories. Not saying that is a bad thing or even something that can be changed. But it is a reality that the staff here is not as exclusive and involved as many places.
| Blazer wrote on Sun, 27 January 2008 18:11 |
| luv2pb wrote on Sun, 27 January 2008 09:50 |
Crimson is not the type of person to throw down when people get stupid or things get rough. We don't have that problem at n00bstories because that is where I step in. She doesn't have a luv2pb here.
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I'd have to partially agree with you there...Crimmy is a bit soft-hearted and often either won't lay the smack down when she should, or she let's them talk their way out of it. Fortunately, I have no problem with banning fucktards, as you saw with my recent bannings of the Plecos-posters.
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Smack down ftw.
| Blazer wrote on Sun, 27 January 2008 18:11 |
| luv2pb wrote on Sun, 27 January 2008 09:50 |
Then you couple that with the fact that 99% of the members really could care less if they got banned and you get renegadeforums.
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That may be part of the above problem, they know that even if they get banned, they can sweet-talk their way out of it, or they just go and play Habbo Hotel while they wait for their ban to expire
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Not to mention the people that left Renegade a long time ago and just have never bothered to leave here. When you have no vested interests your motivation to be an upstanding member just simply isn't there. You also have the people like whorequeer that are simply attention whores.
| Blazer wrote on Sun, 27 January 2008 18:11 |
If you are fed up with the spam and such that you see, try to remember that what you are seeing is only what is slipping by the mods, and that includes with me logging in throughout the day everyday. Believe me, its much more frustrating on this end, as you have no idea the amount of crap that we have been cleaning up. If you are frustrated at the level of moderation, by all means apply to be a mod, and join the clusterfuck I'll even make sure you get into the credits this time
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I never said you guys were doing a bad job. My only real complaint about the moderation here is the quickness to lock topics. But I have a huge problem with that is general as I feel it gets way over abused. You will find me bitching about that pretty much every where ... including n00bstories. To be honest the thought of offering my elite administration skillz has crossed my mind. I'm sure knowing you and Crimson on the level I do you would give it to me. But I'm not sure my style and this place would mesh to be an effective combination. Please keep me out of your future creepy, pervert, voyeuristic, videos kthx 
N00bstories Director Of Operations
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