Home » General Discussions » General Discussion » Apocalypse Rising released?
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| Re: Apocalypse Rising released? [message #470532 is a reply to message #470415] |
Mon, 02 July 2012 09:48   |
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OWA
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| Taz wrote on Sun, 01 July 2012 16:01 |
I do, but it's not worth playing anyway. only 3 half-assed maps, nearly all buildings untextured, renegade infantry and a few vehicles.
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| iRANian wrote on Sun, 01 July 2012 17:46 |
not really they look like someone spent 1 minute in ms paint
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I think it's funny how you guys can instantly start with the negative comments concerning a game being developed in this community for free. Some constructive criticism would have been nice, since saying that "it's not worth playing anyway" and saying that the maps are "half-assed" is about as useful to us (the developers) as a sponge made of bricks.
I don't see what leaking the game early actually achieves other than satisfying people's curiosity and making them think that the game is a pile of wank; since it's not ready for the public, the art is missing, the balance is broken and it's not enjoyable to play.
I don't think our team has ever done anything personally to you to warrant the leaking of our game Taz. Why are you being such a terrible person?
The textures on the buildings (apart from the Allied Powerplant and both Barracks structures) are temporary however. Our testers complained that they kept getting lost in our buildings due to the lighting issues with un-textured objects. So we put some basic textures on the models to appease them.
As for final textures, it's pretty impossible these days to find talented texture artists in this community who aren't already on the team or aren't called Aircraftkiller. 
We did have a pretty good texture artist working on getting our buildings looking great, but then he decided that he'd had enough of AR and went to work on texturing APB models. A few of our staffers are also working on Reborn at the moment, so things stagnated. However, we recently recruited a new texture artist and things are starting to pick up again despite us only having around 4 semi-active staff members.
| Aircraftkiller wrote on Sun, 01 July 2012 16:05 |
I'm not sure why it takes anyone so long to paint structures and get them ready. If they need help, I can share some techniques that I've picked up over the years. They've been working on this since 2006, I imagine these buildings should've been done years ago. For reference, most of my TD buildings are already done and they have a full interior to go with them, textures included. The only thing remaining is rigging. There are ways to speed up the entire process so it doesn't take a glacial pace to get these things finished.
They're doing good work, but there won't be anyone here to enjoy what they're doing if they don't finish soon. Six years is far too long for any project to be completed. The majority of mods at "BHP" are turning into Duke Nukem Forever: Renegade Edition.
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I agree with you Aircraftkiller, it has taken us way longer than it should to get this game ready, however there is a number of factors that have prevented us. Mainly, things like a lack of texture artists, a lack of unwrapping staff, a lack of character artists, a lack of skill (for a few years at least) and a lack of time. It's fair to say that nobody wants to make new character models for the w3d engine any more (except perhaps me and some of the Reborn team), so that part of the project has gone unfinished for a long time. As for you're offer of help and advice; I might just take you up on that.
Another reason why the game is taking so long is because of other obligations our staff have, such as work or education. The aforementioned assignment of our staff to other projects also has somewhat of an effect.
The reason we haven't been doing updates/blogs and such recently is because it'll be better to start doing them again when we're near the end to generate hype. At the moment it's like "I want to play this game, but I don't know when it's going to come out, so screw it" for a lot of people so it doesn't really seem worth promoting the game when we're still up to our eyes in assets to complete at this time.
I think that there will still be people around to play this when we release, perhaps not in this community, but certainly out in the wider gaming community. What I have noticed is that w3d games/mods that are announced just within the C&C community tend to have a lifespan of around 2 weeks after release (I'm looking at you Reborn Infantry Beta). However, I think that if the game is advertised a bit more through social media websites such as Reddit, Facebook and general gaming news sites, I think that the player-base could potentially boom. It all hinges on making the game good before release and also maketing it well, which will unfortunately take some time.
| Zion wrote on Mon, 02 July 2012 13:23 |
Also, the reason AR hasn't been completed in the 6 years it's been going for, at least from my memory, is because everything was redone around 4 times. Sometimes even being textured before it gets redone, and needs retexturing.
:V
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Hey Zion, long time no see! 
You're absolutely right in some cases here, but there was a reason to redo things. When AR was started, I was a 3d nooblet and had no concept of polygon counts, topology, optimisation, proportions and other aspects. So when models were made and passed along to be unwrapped, I had no idea (until a year or two later) that there were some things that were very wrong with some of them.
The Grizzly tank, for example, had to be redone because the model was made incredibly poorly (by my part). So when it was textured and I came back to look at the model, I made everyone really quite mad when I said that it had to be redone. The model we have now though, is awesome and I'm glad we re-did it.
So you can pretty much blame me for redoing things because now that I know how to model instead of thinking I know how, things are running a lot more smoothly in our team. We run a check on every model before it goes to being unwrapped to ensure that there's no nGons or poor modelling to be found.
My only regret is that I wish I learnt how to model properly sooner instead of saying in the early days, "wow that looks awesome, let's get it ingame hurr durr."
tl;dr
- Constructive criticism please!
- Most of the building textures are place-holders.
- Aircraftkiller is right, but people will hopefully play the game if it's well made and marketed well.
- We're taking so long because I'm a spoon and made people redo things in the past.
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[Updated on: Mon, 02 July 2012 09:50] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Apocalypse Rising released? [message #470540 is a reply to message #470532] |
Mon, 02 July 2012 11:16 |
Stefan
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Registered: April 2006
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| One Winged Angel wrote on Mon, 02 July 2012 09:48 |
| Taz wrote on Sun, 01 July 2012 16:01 |
I do, but it's not worth playing anyway. only 3 half-assed maps, nearly all buildings untextured, renegade infantry and a few vehicles.
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text
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The only constructive critisism necessary here is:
Get it done
RELEASE!!11!1!!!
je m'appelle ohnoes!
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| Re: Apocalypse Rising released? [message #470541 is a reply to message #469549] |
Mon, 02 July 2012 11:21 |
iRANian
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General (4 Stars) |
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what i said was pretty constructive
pretty sure if i would have to say that to aircraftkiller he'd understand he'd have to make the texture more detailed so it doesn't look like something done in 1 minute in MS paint
Long time and well respected Renegade community member, programmer, modder and tester.
Scripts 4.0 private beta tester since May 2011.
My Renegade server plugins releases
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| Re: Apocalypse Rising released? [message #470555 is a reply to message #470541] |
Mon, 02 July 2012 13:19 |
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OWA
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| iRANian wrote on Mon, 02 July 2012 19:21 |
what i said was pretty constructive
pretty sure if i would have to say that to aircraftkiller he'd understand he'd have to make the texture more detailed so it doesn't look like something done in 1 minute in MS paint
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It may have been constructive from your point of view. But it was so vague that it pretty much gives me nothing to go on.
I'm left asking myself which textures in the screenshot look like they have been done in paint? Please clarify what you meant, since I don't think you can honestly say that all of the textures in every image look like a one minute paint-a-thon.
Whenever I look at Aircraftkiller's work, he's usually showing off a single asset rather than an ingame screenshot (unless he's working on a map), so yeah he'd know what you're on about because there's usually only one item in the image.
| Generalcamo wrote on Mon, 02 July 2012 20:04 |
There are three ways to get the cartoony look you guys want.
You can use little detail. This, however, also has the effect of making a project looked rush.
You can use a shader. There was a cartoon shader released a while back. However, it cuts into FPS, and it does not work with 4.0. Go Figure.
Lastly, you can over-detail. This is the best one. Still using the small textures you guys have, because that improves performance, add every detail you can think of in your heads. This Renegade X turret has a lot of greebles, so it makes it look cartoony:
http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/9/8709/turret_1.jpg
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I don't think I'm in need of an art lesson here; but there's one major problem with your suggestion of trying to texture our assets the same way Renegade X do. Renegade X's models use shaders to give the final model extra detail which we don't have access to. Shaders that make use of techniques such as normal mapping and specular mapping.
So no matter how hard we try, we'll never be able to make content look as good as theirs; even if we magically get these shaders, UDK's lighting engine is superior.
It's an engine limitation which we're bearing with because we've come too far on this engine to stop now.
As for the cartoon shader; I was one of the guys that was pushing Saberhawk for it, so it's ultimate failure was disappointing.
Structures such as the Sentry Gun, Flak Cannon and Tesla Coil are all, in my opinion, pretty good
Here's a couple of screenshots of the Allied Barracks. This is the kind of texture work I'd like to see on all of our structures:
Exterior
Interior
The problem is not that we don't know what we want to do, it's about not having the staff to do it.
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[Updated on: Mon, 02 July 2012 13:28] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Apocalypse Rising released? [message #470558 is a reply to message #469549] |
Mon, 02 July 2012 13:30 |
iRANian
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None of the stuff Aircraftkiller ever made gave me the feeling it was made in 1 minute with MS Paint. Even when I'm playing Fjords in-game, on the other hand most of the objects in those screenshots do (most strikingly the Harrier landing pads.
With "1 minute in MS Paint" I refer to the textures toned in plastic colours with minimal colour shading applied to it.
Long time and well respected Renegade community member, programmer, modder and tester.
Scripts 4.0 private beta tester since May 2011.
My Renegade server plugins releases
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| Re: Apocalypse Rising released? [message #470666 is a reply to message #469549] |
Tue, 03 July 2012 18:59 |
Generalcamo
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We are trying to make a stable release of ECW. We are working hard on that part. Hopefully it will be worth it, we already smashed a lot of the bugs, a lot of the ones in the current alpha are actually fixed server-side.
Amazing the efforts that two to four people outperform a few mods, with entire teams, that have been working since 2002...
[Updated on: Tue, 03 July 2012 19:00] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Apocalypse Rising released? [message #470686 is a reply to message #470684] |
Wed, 04 July 2012 01:33 |
Sean
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| danpaul88 wrote on Wed, 04 July 2012 01:13 |
| Generalcamo wrote on Wed, 04 July 2012 02:59 |
Amazing the efforts that two to four people outperform a few mods, with entire teams, that have been working since 2002...
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It must be nice to have that much free time to work on game mods, what do you do for a day job that leaves you so fresh every day you can sit down and work on game mods?
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School probably. 
Head admin at TmX (The Matrix Sniper server)
irc.thematrixserver.com
The Matrix Sniper: 188.138.84.134:4576
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| Re: Apocalypse Rising released? [message #470692 is a reply to message #470666] |
Wed, 04 July 2012 06:36 |
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OWA
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| Generalcamo wrote on Wed, 04 July 2012 02:59 |
We are trying to make a stable release of ECW. We are working hard on that part. Hopefully it will be worth it, we already smashed a lot of the bugs, a lot of the ones in the current alpha are actually fixed server-side.
Amazing the efforts that two to four people outperform a few mods, with entire teams, that have been working since 2002...
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That's interesting to hear. It took me a couple of searches on google to find the project (since clicking Jerad's sig would be way too easy), but it's looking pretty good.
A word of advice before I dissect your comment by the way. Being all "hurr durr my team is more productive than SOME teams around here  ", makes you sound pretty arrogant and does nothing to make me want to go "yeah, that GeneralCamo guy is alright". Plus it reflects badly on the project you support if you are pictured in a negative way.
I guess what I'm saying is that you could have written what you wanted to say without sounding like an arrogant douche.
I doubt you guys are outperforming APB at this stage, seeing as their project is released and is usually being played. Updates are regular too.
Reborn is practically done apart from a couple of models and a lot of Level Edit work so I doubt they're being outperformed either. A lot of good quality custom models are in that game, as well as the walkers and deployables that make it awesome.
ECW could be outperforming us over at AR, mainly because we haven't really updated much lately, we haven't been working on our project for as long as APB or Reborn and we've only got 4-5 busy people actively working. I used to have loads of spare time for AR, but as soon as I got to university I was swamped with work, so no productivity there (well apart from stuff like this).
Saying that; our game is barely Renegade any more. We are still using some renegade models for place-holders but the game plays a lot differently due to several unique mechanics we've engineered.
ECW is definitely outperforming Battle For Dune and Scud Storm, since I haven't heard anything from those guys for ages.
So I guess your comment was aimed at the games that I just mentioned?
By the way, I don't see you on their staff page at all. Are you actually on their team or what?
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[Updated on: Wed, 04 July 2012 06:49] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Apocalypse Rising released? [message #470693 is a reply to message #469549] |
Wed, 04 July 2012 07:32 |
Generalcamo
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Actually, I was.
I wasn't talking about APB, because they have made a lot of (somewhat) stable releases in 3 years time. Really, Reborn is the only mod in BHP that fits this criteria, with only two releases, one alpha, and an infantry beta, after 10 years. But when I was testing, it was pretty much done for a Vehicle Beta as Taz has said. When BHP took it over though, they decided to make a full release instead of a vehicle beta, which is fine. As long as progress is made. And it looks like there is.
By the way, that is a nice Battle Fortress, but I would add some reflectivity to it, to make it more like the Shiny Chrome in the Cameo. And then of course, this thing probably went crushing tanks and such, so adding some dents, scuffs, and blood at the bottom of the front would make it look better.
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| Re: Apocalypse Rising released? [message #470718 is a reply to message #470693] |
Wed, 04 July 2012 11:18 |
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OWA
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| Generalcamo wrote on Wed, 04 July 2012 15:32 |
By the way, that is a nice Battle Fortress, but I would add some reflectivity to it, to make it more like the Shiny Chrome in the Cameo. And then of course, this thing probably went crushing tanks and such, so adding some dents, scuffs, and blood at the bottom of the front would make it look better.
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Cheers. It does have some reflectivity through a specular map, but I've toned it down because it can be shiny overkill. I did this for a uni project so that's why it's got a specular map, however we won't be able to use that particular type of texture map unless TT implement the shader support.
I didn't bother adding too much grime because it's supposed to be clean out of the War Factory, so I just added dirt where it would collect naturally in the test ranges. The texture does need improving however, since the shading is fairly flat.
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[Updated on: Wed, 04 July 2012 11:18] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Apocalypse Rising released? [message #470957 is a reply to message #469549] |
Sun, 08 July 2012 08:08 |
Generalcamo
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Colonel |
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They changed the name.
"Roleplay 2" was turning people away. Due to the fact that we became standalone, the Renegade community was only a small percentage of our player base. And the last release known as the old name was extremely crashy due to the code. We hope to have one of the most stable releases soon. And the old name, which can mean more then one thing, was keeping us back.
Don't worry about the next release though. We have ironed out most of the bugs, and have a stable release on our hands. We just need some additional things from the modeling department (Blazea), some fixing to some models (Including adding LOD to the water, and gridding it out some more), and some Code Work (Jerad Grey).
I should be a PR director.
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