| Renegade-X Black Dawn [message #462106] |
Mon, 30 January 2012 04:48  |
iRANian
Messages: 4299
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 0
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General (4 Stars) |
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Oh wow, this game combines the worse aspects of Modern Welfare and Duke Nukem Forever with AI that's worse than Renegade. And then decides to add cringe-worthy dialog, voice acting and music on top of it.
And poor Havoc suffers from Parkinson's in this game coupled with obesity and muscular distrophy. Slight mental retardation too, I have to signal Havoc to grab items and he sometimes dives sideways like a puppy. :/
Long time and well respected Renegade community member, programmer, modder and tester.
Scripts 4.0 private beta tester since May 2011.
My Renegade server plugins releases
[Updated on: Mon, 30 January 2012 04:50] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Renegade-X Black Dawn [message #462108 is a reply to message #462106] |
Mon, 30 January 2012 09:23  |
kamuixmod
Messages: 211
Registered: July 2010
Karma: 0
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yeah, i did expect more from the Game as well. The Ai are just jumping around and even run into my Vehicle, when im driving around.
The best of all are of course the Apaches, which just flew right into my Mammoth tank like a suicidal Bomber and flew it away...
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| Re: Renegade-X Black Dawn [message #462124 is a reply to message #462106] |
Mon, 30 January 2012 17:07 |
SeL
Messages: 15
Registered: August 2004
Location: Zuid-Holland
Karma: 0
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What did you guys expect? A non-profit studio to deliver a game that meets the requirements set by the current gaming industry?
wow.
Imo, Black Dawn plays a lot more like Renegade than 0.55 and I really enjoyed it. I am looking forward to the renewed multiplayer build, if Totemarts doesn't cancel it, that is because of all the kids crying over a few little bugs.
Renegade YouTube channel.
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| Re: Renegade-X Black Dawn [message #462132 is a reply to message #462106] |
Tue, 31 January 2012 00:06 |
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R315r4z0r
Messages: 3836
Registered: March 2005
Location: New York
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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| liquidv2 wrote on Tue, 31 January 2012 02:06 |
i don't understand why they'd attempt to make a single player campaign
it might generate some interest but if it's not something you're familiar with it could potentially be awful
stick to what you're good at; i hope they recover from this and make something incredible
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Because they had to make assets for the game. With the UT3 release, they used a lot of game assets from UT3. Meaning things like cliffs, trees, rocks, as well as crates, barrels and other such props.
Obviously for a standalone game, they can't be stealing work from UT3. They needed to remake everything they borrowed from UT3. If they just did that, they would simply be building a library of assets. So, they thought it would be beneficial for them as well as fans to create the single player Black Dawn. That way they could create the things they needed to create and at the same time give the fans something to do while they wait for the multiplayer version.
I'd also imagine the pressure the team went through to get BD out was also good for them and their drive to get work done.
[Updated on: Tue, 31 January 2012 00:12] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Renegade-X Black Dawn [message #462163 is a reply to message #462132] |
Tue, 31 January 2012 14:14 |
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Omar007
Messages: 1711
Registered: December 2007
Location: Amsterdam
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| R315r4z0r wrote on Tue, 31 January 2012 08:06 |
Because they had to make assets for the game. With the UT3 release, they used a lot of game assets from UT3. Meaning things like cliffs, trees, rocks, as well as crates, barrels and other such props.
Obviously for a standalone game, they can't be stealing work from UT3. They needed to remake everything they borrowed from UT3. If they just did that, they would simply be building a library of assets.
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It still contains UT content.
| R315r4z0r wrote on Tue, 31 January 2012 08:06 |
So, they thought it would be beneficial for them as well as fans to create the single player Black Dawn. That way they could create the things they needed to create and at the same time give the fans something to do while they wait for the multiplayer version.
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Making a SP game to then revamp it for MP is a bad approach. A lot of time and problems are prevented if it would've been made with MP in mind. I'm afraid that since this is a SP release, this is not the case. If it is, my apologies to the team but then explain why a SP release first? 
| R315r4z0r wrote on Tue, 31 January 2012 08:06 |
I'd also imagine the pressure the team went through to get BD out was also good for them and their drive to get work done.
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Hmm I'm not sure on this. I mean the release date was given only 1 month in advance so basically they had all time to do everything slowly till this last month.
Unless they already had that date set for months internally.
Having said all of the above, I do appreciate all the work put into it and I enjoyed playing it. I had hoped the AI would actually do something though, especially since this is a SP release where there is nothing else.
[Updated on: Tue, 31 January 2012 14:20] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Renegade-X Black Dawn [message #462166 is a reply to message #462106] |
Wed, 01 February 2012 10:40 |
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Aircraftkiller
Messages: 8213
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars) |
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What I find shameful is the concerted bleating that comes out of their team when you criticize any part of it in an effort to help them improve. You'll get told "it's a free game, so we don't have to listen to you, work with you, etc". It's like, okay, you went through all this trouble to make a SP release for a MP game and now you're going to ignore legitimate concerns about the content that you released? Telling us that it's not a big deal because "MP is our focus" has to be one of the silliest things I've seen lately.
What I posted on CNCNZ.com:
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Pray tell, what is the point of a buggy single player campaign? The team who built this doesn't have a lot of single-play design experience. Their experience so far has been in developing multiplayer release content. This is what Renegade X was always about up until recently, when this project is announced and released. What is the point of this? To show that they're doing something? Posting art update threads would solve this. Less "dev blogs" and more art updates would solve this. When they finish a model, put it up so it can be examined from different perspectives. ****, make a 3D PDF of it! Let people play with that ****er and see how it looks in real time. But really, this release was essentially without any justifiable reason for its existence.
They're quite capable of refining a MP release. I'm not sure why time wasn't spent on the multiplay aspect, instead. Do what we endured for the Renegade beta in 2001: Make us play Field and Under constantly. Fine tune the dynamics, find out where the problems in gameplay are. It would have been better received and would have generated a lot of excitement. This buggy release is not generating a lot of good publicity, though we can argue about the merits of "good" and "bad" publicity... The point remains, their talents would have been better off in a multiplay release. It was a good attempt, but it falls flat.
I'm not averse to changing my mind on IndieDB and rating it higher or lower depending on what they do. I'd love to see them go back and attempt to improve it. However, the attitude from their team seems to be inconsistent - some members publicly rebuke anyone who criticizes their work, while people like Fobby seem to half-heartedly encourage it. I want to see you guys succeed, but I also want to see you accept this: without your fans helping prod you along and give you feedback, you're designing this for nobody but yourselves.
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| Re: Renegade-X Black Dawn [message #462169 is a reply to message #462106] |
Wed, 01 February 2012 12:54 |
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Taz
Messages: 110
Registered: September 2005
Karma: 0
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I think it's because what you're asking for is unrealistic. You might not like the direction their mod is heading, but they it's not like they aren't getting things done. They have their own vision of what the mod needs to be. Alright, cool. No need to cut their heads off when they make an error or 2 or because they don't take all of your opinions serious right away.
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This is the Internet's reaction to RenX so far, best summed up in animated GIF format.
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Yeah, acting childish will certainly help your case.
Renegade-x aint renegade, get over it dude.
[Updated on: Wed, 01 February 2012 15:17] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Renegade-X Black Dawn [message #462173 is a reply to message #462106] |
Wed, 01 February 2012 15:46 |
iRANian
Messages: 4299
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 0
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General (4 Stars) |
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Well if it isn't Renegade than what is it then? I haven't seen any unrealistic requests so far. I guess "releasing a very short, very shitty single player campaign" counts as getting shit done, but it took Aircraftkiller only a few months to create the nicest looking Renegade map that's fun to play with a decent player count, and a single match of it has the same replay value as the whole Black Dawn campaign lol.
Long time and well respected Renegade community member, programmer, modder and tester.
Scripts 4.0 private beta tester since May 2011.
My Renegade server plugins releases
[Updated on: Wed, 01 February 2012 15:48] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Renegade-X Black Dawn [message #462206 is a reply to message #462166] |
Thu, 02 February 2012 15:12 |
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Spyder
Messages: 1070
Registered: March 2006
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| Aircraftkiller wrote on Wed, 01 February 2012 18:40 |
What I find shameful is the concerted bleating that comes out of their team when you criticize any part of it in an effort to help them improve. You'll get told "it's a free game, so we don't have to listen to you, work with you, etc". It's like, okay, you went through all this trouble to make a SP release for a MP game and now you're going to ignore legitimate concerns about the content that you released? Telling us that it's not a big deal because "MP is our focus" has to be one of the silliest things I've seen lately.
What I posted on CNCNZ.com:
| Quote: |
Pray tell, what is the point of a buggy single player campaign? The team who built this doesn't have a lot of single-play design experience. Their experience so far has been in developing multiplayer release content. This is what Renegade X was always about up until recently, when this project is announced and released. What is the point of this? To show that they're doing something? Posting art update threads would solve this. Less "dev blogs" and more art updates would solve this. When they finish a model, put it up so it can be examined from different perspectives. ****, make a 3D PDF of it! Let people play with that ****er and see how it looks in real time. But really, this release was essentially without any justifiable reason for its existence.
They're quite capable of refining a MP release. I'm not sure why time wasn't spent on the multiplay aspect, instead. Do what we endured for the Renegade beta in 2001: Make us play Field and Under constantly. Fine tune the dynamics, find out where the problems in gameplay are. It would have been better received and would have generated a lot of excitement. This buggy release is not generating a lot of good publicity, though we can argue about the merits of "good" and "bad" publicity... The point remains, their talents would have been better off in a multiplay release. It was a good attempt, but it falls flat.
I'm not averse to changing my mind on IndieDB and rating it higher or lower depending on what they do. I'd love to see them go back and attempt to improve it. However, the attitude from their team seems to be inconsistent - some members publicly rebuke anyone who criticizes their work, while people like Fobby seem to half-heartedly encourage it. I want to see you guys succeed, but I also want to see you accept this: without your fans helping prod you along and give you feedback, you're designing this for nobody but yourselves.
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I second that 
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| Re: Renegade-X Black Dawn [message #462208 is a reply to message #462206] |
Thu, 02 February 2012 15:47 |
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Jerad2142
Messages: 3805
Registered: July 2006
Location: USA
Karma: 6
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General (3 Stars) |
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It comes down to doing what you enjoy, if all your team members enjoy working on the project it'll have a lot more progress made. If you get bored of working on a multiplayer campaign it's just as reasonable to change focus and work on a single player campaign (but only when it's something free your doing for fun).
However, I wouldn't have recommended releasing it with AI that was worse off than Renegade's, its not that much work to build a simple FSM for the AI to run on, get some take cover, retreat, and vehicle logic built in (yes I'll admit, even an FSM can get to be a mess when you add vehicles to it, but what can you do).
I believe that if you make something to the best of your abilities and you have fun doing it, others will be able to see that, and enjoy playing on it. However there is the flip side of the coin, and when you start cutting corners and doing things half assed just to get it done because your tired of it, people will be able to see that as well and react negatively to it.
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| Re: Renegade-X Black Dawn [message #462278 is a reply to message #462106] |
Sun, 05 February 2012 03:51 |
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Spyder
Messages: 1070
Registered: March 2006
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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As far as I know they haven't even responded to the bug reports on their own forums... Doesn't seem like they want to improve, not with that attitude.
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