Home » General Discussions » General Discussion » RSF Raptor
| Re: RSF Raptor [message #429339 is a reply to message #429336] |
Tue, 25 May 2010 14:56   |
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Kimb
Messages: 607
Registered: August 2009
Location: There is no greater power...
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| Clark Kent wrote on Tue, 25 May 2010 16:48 |
| Goztow wrote on Tue, 25 May 2010 15:26 |
Headshots are already in the game. Aimbot is a shortcut to them.
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Ofcourse headshots are already in the game... but it was not where you could just press a button to magically get them.
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Actually, as far as i know, you have to press/hold one key and left/right click on the mouse, no?
Also, i find your argument lacking something (goz)
What we think, or what we know, or what we believe is, in the end, of little consequence. The only consequence is what we do.
| CarrierII wrote on Fri 21 May 2010 06:58 |
This doesn't meet the minimum standards of spam.
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| Re: RSF Raptor [message #429347 is a reply to message #429344] |
Tue, 25 May 2010 15:41 |
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saberhawk
Messages: 1068
Registered: January 2006
Location: ::1
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| Zeratul wrote on Tue, 25 May 2010 18:25 |
| CarrierII wrote on Tue, 25 May 2010 16:20 |
TL;DR
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Sorry to ask this but... what does that mean
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Too long, didn't read.
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| Re: RSF Raptor [message #429349 is a reply to message #429343] |
Tue, 25 May 2010 15:51 |
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slosha
Messages: 1540
Registered: September 2008
Location: North Dakota FTW
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| CarrierII wrote on Tue, 25 May 2010 17:20 |
TL;DR - HUDs display that info real-time, which is a big advantage compared to the normal non-real-time-updating, make you stand still display.
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This. I can't understand why people can't seem wrap their heads around such a simple concept.
The road I cruise is a bitch now, baby.
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| Re: RSF Raptor [message #429361 is a reply to message #429252] |
Tue, 25 May 2010 19:28 |
FlaminGunz
Messages: 171
Registered: November 2007
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^ and you continue to ignore mods irrefutable reasoning as to why that is
to my knowledge 0x90 has never posted a cheat or linked to a cheat on these forums and has therefore not broken any rules
hence being allowed to remain here, i do not get why that doesnt seem to get rhu to some people
anyways
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| Re: RSF Raptor [message #429363 is a reply to message #429252] |
Tue, 25 May 2010 21:58 |
FlaminGunz
Messages: 171
Registered: November 2007
Karma: 0
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meh i cant see wateva that pic is - aussie internet at uni leaves something to be desired
either way
you can argue with mods all you want, but you will fail. As you are not right, when your on turf run by smeone else, it doesnt matter if you think you are right, your not.
0x90 hasnt broken any rules, therefore he is not banned. The rules are quite clear and mods have enforeced them right.
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| Re: RSF Raptor [message #429367 is a reply to message #429366] |
Tue, 25 May 2010 22:54 |
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GEORGE ZIMMER
Messages: 2605
Registered: March 2006
Karma: 0
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| FlaminGunz wrote on Tue, 25 May 2010 23:58 |
you can argue with mods all you want, but you will fail.
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Ever been banned off a server for something you thought was retarded, because a mod was being a power hungry dick? Yeah, ok, let's never try and say "Cool, but that's fucking wrong" because someone is a mod. Great logic, let's NEVER argue against something because someone's a mod.
| FlaminGunz wrote on Tue, 25 May 2010 23:58 |
As you are not right, when your on turf run by smeone else, it doesnt matter if you think you are right, your not.
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...this is the most retarded logic I've ever seen in the history of mankind, hands down.
| FlaminGunz wrote on Tue, 25 May 2010 23:58 |
0x90 hasnt broken any rules, therefore he is not banned. The rules are quite clear and mods have enforeced them right.
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If you bothered to read the other topic, you'd see why it's stupid he's allowed to post solely because he's "polite".
| liquidv2 wrote on Wed, 26 May 2010 00:44 |
you're an idiot; take your logic elsewhere
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by the way, the reason I said that is because you guys gladly overreact to someone posting to a site that has buildingbars, but refuse to ban (and infact, happily welcome) a known cheat maker (as well as someone who has fucked up the competitive side of Renegade entirely).
The guy just fucking said "Well, it's pretty stupid that you guys overreact to this kinda stuff" basically and you happily ban him.
Let's not forget, removal of PM rights for people suspected of having building bars. I'm more than willing to bet 0x90 has PM rights.
Toggle Spoiler| Scrin wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 13:22 |
| cAmpa wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 12:45 |
Scrin, stop pming people to get the building bars.
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FUCK YOU AND THIS SHIT GAME WITH YOUR SCRIPTS!!! I HAVE ASKING YOU AND ANOTHER NOOBS HERE ABOUT HELP WITH THAT BUILDING ICONS FEATURES FOR YEARS, BUT YOU KEEP IGNORING ME AND KEEP WRITE SHIT, SO BURN YOU AND YOUR ASSLICKERS FRIENDS, THIS TIME I'M NOT COME BACK!!!!!!!!!   
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[Updated on: Tue, 25 May 2010 22:58] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: RSF Raptor [message #429372 is a reply to message #429335] |
Tue, 25 May 2010 23:57 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9727
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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| Kimb wrote on Tue, 25 May 2010 23:47 |
Why did you perma ban him? 
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He is not permanently banned but this forum package has no seperate messages for temporary bans.
I'm not sure how many of the members who posted in here have played a clanwar or tournament game without BB installed lately. I can tell you that a team I lead would have won 2 RGCT1 games instead of loosing them if a single of our players would have had BB. When 5 arties are pounding your base while you are grouping up meds to destroy them, then a building can be dead within less than 20 seconds.
The difference between realtime info and pressing the key is a huge gap. I'd like to see someone fraps how he plays when he's constantly pressing the 'k' button long enough to watch the health of all buildings. If you want the same level of information as BB, then your gameplay will become totally wrecked because you need to keep doing it all the way throughout the game.
I don't see why I would consider one cheat to be worse than others. Take radar hack: a very subtle hack that doesn't do direct damage to the enemy. So following the arguments of some people in here (R315r4z0r) it should be considered a feature and not a cheat! I claim the opposite: the more a cheat is subtle (like BB and radar hack), the more it's dangerous to the game! I find BB worse than final renegade because at least final renegade made it very obvious someone was cheating, hence easy to counter. BB are subtle and hypocrite but they are very much a cheat.
Also, about the whole google argument: our rules are very clear. This forum fully supports RenGuard along with other anti-cheat solutions. With that said, the posting or advertising of cheats will not be tolerated in any way imaginable. This clearly means that posting or advertising cheats are put on the same level of infraction.
I won't even go into the reference to power hungry mods. I think most people who have been here for a while know me as an integer person. I also don't always agree with certain decisions made by the moderator or admin team but I respect them. On the 0x90 case majority decided it seemed smarter to keep contact with 0x90 than to completely reject him. You can compare it to the cold war: there always was a direct telephone line between Russia and the US to communicate when needed. But let's keep that discussion in its own topic, please.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
[Updated on: Wed, 26 May 2010 00:05] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: RSF Raptor [message #429375 is a reply to message #429252] |
Wed, 26 May 2010 01:15 |
FlaminGunz
Messages: 171
Registered: November 2007
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lol zim
i dont play places that have shitty mods, i dont get involved so i wouldnt know.
also i dont give a shit if he is polite or what not
you go about making a point telling me how dumb i am, yet you cannot offer a reason why he should be banned
anyone can give a reason, maybe he has a rabbit for a pet, i fukin hate rabits therefore he should be banned
he makes cheats and therefore should be banned
its not in the rules you retard. I still visit these forums as Gozy does a good job. like i said, i wouldnt be involved here if the mods couldnt do their job.
you go about saying he should be banned for NOT breaking the rules, yep thats the best logic ive seen all day
congratz
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| Re: RSF Raptor [message #429376 is a reply to message #429367] |
Wed, 26 May 2010 01:33 |
Reaver11
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Registered: April 2007
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| GEORGE ZIMMER wrote on Wed, 26 May 2010 00:54 |
by the way, the reason I said that is because you guys gladly overreact to someone posting to a site that has buildingbars, but refuse to ban (and infact, happily welcome) a known cheat maker (as well as someone who has fucked up the competitive side of Renegade entirely).
Let's not forget, removal of PM rights for people suspected of having building bars. I'm more than willing to bet 0x90 has PM rights.
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^this is basically the whole deal.
You can't really argue against this.
I mean I can even remember some contributing members that had their pm rights revoked and nowdays wont contribute anything anymore.
Besides having drama fun that is.
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| Re: RSF Raptor [message #429377 is a reply to message #429375] |
Wed, 26 May 2010 02:06 |
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GEORGE ZIMMER
Messages: 2605
Registered: March 2006
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| FlaminGunz wrote on Wed, 26 May 2010 03:15 |
lol zim
i dont play places that have shitty mods, i dont get involved so i wouldnt know.
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good for you, but the argument still stands
| FlaminGunz wrote on Wed, 26 May 2010 03:15 |
also i dont give a shit if he is polite or what not
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Right, so if he was rude, you wouldn't care?
| FlaminGunz wrote on Wed, 26 May 2010 03:15 |
you go about making a point telling me how dumb i am, yet you cannot offer a reason why he should be banned
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Don't recall saying you were dumb (though you definitely seem to be pushing that conclusion yourself), just that you used a ridiculously immature and retarded logic.
Also, see the other topic for tons of reasons as to why he should...
| FlaminGunz wrote on Wed, 26 May 2010 03:15 |
anyone can give a reason, maybe he has a rabbit for a pet, i fukin hate rabits therefore he should be banned
he makes cheats and therefore should be banned
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The difference is that no one gives a shit if he has a rabbit since it affects nobody
but him making cheats affects a fucking lot of people who try to enjoy this game. "LOL nerd cares about videogames" I'm sure you're going to say, but it does get tiring when your entertainment is ruined by some twat.
| FlaminGunz wrote on Wed, 26 May 2010 03:15 |
its not in the rules you retard. I still visit these forums as Gozy does a good job. like i said, i wouldnt be involved here if the mods couldnt do their job.
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If everyone always had to follow the rules specifically and exactly, nothing would ever get done
| FlaminGunz wrote on Wed, 26 May 2010 03:15 |
you go about saying he should be banned for NOT breaking the rules, yep thats the best logic ive seen all day
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...where did I say that?
also, nice, you can use something I said and mimic it. how classy.
| Goztow wrote on Wed, 26 May 2010 01:57 |
I don't see why I would consider one cheat to be worse than others. Take radar hack: a very subtle hack that doesn't do direct damage to the enemy. So following the arguments of some people in here (R315r4z0r) it should be considered a feature and not a cheat! I claim the opposite: the more a cheat is subtle (like BB and radar hack), the more it's dangerous to the game! I find BB worse than final renegade because at least final renegade made it very obvious someone was cheating, hence easy to counter. BB are subtle and hypocrite but they are very much a cheat.
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The problem is, alot of you guys seem to flip your shit over BB more than anything- if you meant what you said about not considering one cheat to be worse than another, why is it that Building Bars get singled out so much?
| Goztow wrote on Wed, 26 May 2010 01:57 |
I won't even go into the reference to power hungry mods. I think most people who have been here for a while know me as an integer person.
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The "Power hungry mods" thing wasn't directed at the renforums mod team actually; I meant that there are power hungry mods in Renegade servers that kick people.
Toggle Spoiler| Scrin wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 13:22 |
| cAmpa wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 12:45 |
Scrin, stop pming people to get the building bars.
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FUCK YOU AND THIS SHIT GAME WITH YOUR SCRIPTS!!! I HAVE ASKING YOU AND ANOTHER NOOBS HERE ABOUT HELP WITH THAT BUILDING ICONS FEATURES FOR YEARS, BUT YOU KEEP IGNORING ME AND KEEP WRITE SHIT, SO BURN YOU AND YOUR ASSLICKERS FRIENDS, THIS TIME I'M NOT COME BACK!!!!!!!!!
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| Re: RSF Raptor [message #429379 is a reply to message #429252] |
Wed, 26 May 2010 02:20 |
FlaminGunz
Messages: 171
Registered: November 2007
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i really dont care whether he is rude or polite. Obviosuly if it gets out of hand then sure go ahead and ban him, but the level of rude id tend to say is fairly high here. Not that i care tbh
what i was tring to say, is that it doesnt matter how many reasons you throw around... he hasnt broken a rule. If you were to ban him for any of those reasons, youd be banning like retarded ren mods do... for their own reasons. Not the servers rules. not sure if you understand that or not.
I mean i completely understand why you want him banned, but what im trying to say is that it doesnt matter. He hasnt broken any rules...
And yeah you dont always have to follow rules, but they are there for a reason and if mods choose to enforce them, i think its immature to deny they are right. Its their job to enforce the rules, no matter how stupid YOU thinkt hey are.
I personally hate what 0x90 has done to Renegade as i am a mod in a few plavces and have to deal with my fair share of cheaters. So dw im not going to call you out for being a nerd. You may know that im doing a fair bit around Renegade and i do care alot about it. But banning him for renforums, isnto going to solve the problem. His cheats still exist and your banning a person from a forum for really no good reason.
"The difference is that no one gives a shit if he has a rabbit since it affects nobody". yes ofc thats true, but it doesnt help you. His cheats have affected renegade, not his precense here (no matter how fleeting that presence is). As i said before, banning him doesnt actually solve anything..
I respect the moderators decision on this case. Thats what i allueded to last post in that wherever i play/forum visit, il respect the mods.
Doesnt really matter to this point ofc lol 
and for the record, i dont give a shit who uses building bars. Go for it. Its an advantage, but not in the class of cheating. If you use it to just help your game out, good for you. If you think someone will beat you because of building bars - maybe its not just that and you should take some rene-lessons.
But i didnt see exactly what Raptor posted. If he did break the rules as gozy suggested. Contarry to 0x90 he did specifically break the rules here and should be penalised. gg
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| Re: RSF Raptor [message #429380 is a reply to message #429252] |
Wed, 26 May 2010 02:22 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9727
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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| Quote: |
why is it that Building Bars get singled out so much?
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That would be because it's about the only cheat that people try to post here. Let's also not forget that GoodOnedriver got a permanent ban for posting Nuke and Ion Emitters (allthough he was indeed a recidivist).
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: RSF Raptor [message #429384 is a reply to message #429380] |
Wed, 26 May 2010 02:56 |
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cAmpa
Messages: 597
Registered: March 2006
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| Goztow wrote on Wed, 26 May 2010 11:22 |
| Quote: |
why is it that Building Bars get singled out so much?
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That would be because it's about the only cheat that people try to post here. Let's also not forget that GoodOnedriver got a permanent ban for posting Nuke and Ion Emitters (allthough he was indeed a recidivist).
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Lmao, a perm ban for a player who had no clue wtf he did, a 30 days ban for a HUD with bb's (Let's not forget, scripts makes it possible for everyone to create stuff like that.)
and a big "hello welcome to the Renegade Public Forums" to the asshole who killed for hundrets of players the fun for the game because you can't trust anyone anymore.
Kinda pervy.
Bückstabü!
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| Re: RSF Raptor [message #429395 is a reply to message #429379] |
Wed, 26 May 2010 04:36 |
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GEORGE ZIMMER
Messages: 2605
Registered: March 2006
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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| FlaminGunz wrote on Wed, 26 May 2010 04:20 |
i really dont care whether he is rude or polite. Obviosuly if it gets out of hand then sure go ahead and ban him, but the level of rude id tend to say is fairly high here. Not that i care tbh
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Right, it's that he should be rude to be unwelcome here- it shouldn't work the other way around, and that him being "polite" means he SHOULD be welcome here.
| FlaminGunz wrote on Wed, 26 May 2010 04:20 |
what i was tring to say, is that it doesnt matter how many reasons you throw around... he hasnt broken a rule. If you were to ban him for any of those reasons, youd be banning like retarded ren mods do... for their own reasons. Not the servers rules. not sure if you understand that or not.
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I understand it perfectly. The thing is, 0x90 is pretty much just being nice so he DOESN'T get banned. It's like a known terrorist acting very nice and polite- that by no means should grant them any form of acceptance if they continue to blow shit up.
| FlaminGunz wrote on Wed, 26 May 2010 04:20 |
I mean i completely understand why you want him banned, but what im trying to say is that it doesnt matter. He hasnt broken any rules...
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Once again, I know he hasn't broken any rules on here. But let's take things into perspective for a moment:
1: Renegade is a small community. Renegade Forums' higher-ups are essentially the higher-ups of the Renegade community altogether (TT people, etc). If we were to unwelcome him from the forums, that's giving him a big "fuck you".
2: He's damaged this game a fucking lot. I know you know this, but I feel it's necessary to point it out alot until people realize he is responsible for the decline of Renegade's competitive community.
3: If the whole community starts to tell him "Fuck you" but he wants to stay here, then he should outright stop making cheats, apologize for the shit he's done. If he doesn't want to be here but continues to shit up the community in spite of the fact that he obviously is welcome, why the fuck should he stay?
| FlaminGunz wrote on Wed, 26 May 2010 04:20 |
And yeah you dont always have to follow rules, but they are there for a reason and if mods choose to enforce them, i think its immature to deny they are right. Its their job to enforce the rules, no matter how stupid YOU thinkt hey are.
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No, see, just because there are rules doesn't mean they're automatically right- what's RIGHT should dictate what makes the rules. Just the same, what's right should dictate what rules there aren't. I'm not so sure allowing- and infact, WELCOMING- known cheaters to be here is the right thing to do in any sense.
| FlaminGunz wrote on Wed, 26 May 2010 04:20 |
I personally hate what 0x90 has done to Renegade as i am a mod in a few plavces and have to deal with my fair share of cheaters. So dw im not going to call you out for being a nerd. You may know that im doing a fair bit around Renegade and i do care alot about it. But banning him for renforums, isnto going to solve the problem. His cheats still exist and your banning a person from a forum for really no good reason.
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That's good to know. And, as I said numerous times, there are plenty of reasons. The only semi-decent argument I've seen to keep 0x90 here is that if we ban him on a "Fuck you" basis, that he might get pissed and make MORE cheats. The thing is, he makes cheats anyways- he has not stopped, and obviously never will.
It'd be pretty hopeless if we COULDN'T do anything to stop him, but there is- it's called keeping him out of any form of communication with this community to stop the spread of his cheats, and to make an anti-cheat that he has no involvement with so he can't know how to get around it easily.
And maybe, just maybe, he'll feel unwelcome enough to actually say sorry and stop making cheats like a little twat. I'd rather that, than some overly pessimistic view.
| FlaminGunz wrote on Wed, 26 May 2010 04:20 |
"The difference is that no one gives a shit if he has a rabbit since it affects nobody". yes ofc thats true, but it doesnt help you. His cheats have affected renegade, not his precense here (no matter how fleeting that presence is). As i said before, banning him doesnt actually solve anything..
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But his lack of presence here could affect him, which could affect his cheat making. As I've said before, it's better than keeping him here.
| FlaminGunz wrote on Wed, 26 May 2010 04:20 |
I respect the moderators decision on this case. Thats what i allueded to last post in that wherever i play/forum visit, il respect the mods.
Doesnt really matter to this point ofc lol
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Respect is fine, but to never go against someone simply because they enforce the rules is ridiculous, and can never help anything.
| FlaminGunz wrote on Wed, 26 May 2010 04:20 |
and for the record, i dont give a shit who uses building bars. Go for it. Its an advantage, but not in the class of cheating. If you use it to just help your game out, good for you. If you think someone will beat you because of building bars - maybe its not just that and you should take some rene-lessons.
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I semi-agree, but a cheat's a cheat. It's definitely an advantage.
| FlaminGunz wrote on Wed, 26 May 2010 04:20 |
But i didnt see exactly what Raptor posted. If he did break the rules as gozy suggested. Contarry to 0x90 he did specifically break the rules here and should be penalised. gg
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see, here's the thing (and why I'm even making a big deal here)
People are getting banned for the whole building bars thing. Even posting a screenshot of it will have your PM rights disabled. It's a little ridiculous, but somewhat understandable- cheats really destroy Renegade, right? And it's best to not have people be welcome here, if they cheat, and it's also good to not give them the ability to spread those cheats.
...yet 0x90, a known cheat maker who is pretty much entirely responsible for the downfall of the competitive Renegade scene, is welcome here, with open arms.
"But banning him doesn't get rid of the cheats! It's hopeless!"
Banning RSF Raptor won't get rid of his building bars either. If people want it, they can still seek it out. Renegade is such a small community that by now EVERYONE KNOWS about building bars.
It's the same fucking thing as banning 0x90, but yet 0x90 is not banned.
Not banning him on the grounds that he hasn't explicitly broken any rules is understandable... if he never actually did anything else, that is. He is not an innocent man (and I use the term "man" very lightly) in any sense of the word, and has done nothing but shit up the Renegade community.
To not ban him because he hasn't explicitly broken rules despite the fact that he is responsible for ruining a portion of an already small community is... well, it's fucking cowardly. There's no other way to put it- to back down just because "OH NO HE MIGHT MAKE MORE CHEATS" is stupid. He's obviously already putting a ton of effort into cracking anti-cheats, so y'know, I actually would prefer he DID try harder. Make his life that much more fucking miserable, so he focuses his full attention until he snaps.
Furthermore, I really have to say that it's hypocritical to keep RSF Raptor banned but keep 0x90 here. I know that people aren't getting banned for just "breaking the rules"- those rules were put in place for a reason. So instead of arguing against the rule, I'll argue against the reason for the existence of the rules.
The reasoning to banning people who have building bars (and may distribute them, knowingly or unknowingly) is so that it doesn't get around. Right? Right.
Now let's sidetrack for a second here- we all know 0x90 isn't directly releasing his cheats here. But he's obviously releasing them elsewhere, and is infact, the one WORKING on them. And people are obviously still getting ahold of said cheats. Even people who post HERE can very well get them, just through some simple searching. BUT, because 0x90 isn't releasing the cheats HERE, he isn't breaking the rule (just, y'know, directly breaking the whole reason behind the rule- he's distributing the cheats, just not here). Banning him here wouldn't change a thing, etc- he'd still be releasing them.
The same exact thing can be said about building bars. Banning them from here won't change a damn thing- they will still get around, they will still be released, and there will still be people intent on releasing them.
The only difference between banning people for building bars and banning 0x90 for his twattery is that the former simply release them here.
And then we go back to the whole "It's a rule" thing. It's a RULE to not release cheats on here- but why? Why does the rule exist? Simple, because releasing them on here makes it so people have more access to them. Making it a "rule" is simply a way of saying "Hey, dickwad, don't do this shit, we don't like it".
But what if someone were to get around those rules, yet still go against the reason as to why that rule exists? What then? Do we allow them to continue, despite the clear fact that they are more damaging than someone who simply breaks the rule?
What then?
TL;DR: Pick a side, Goztow and co. Ban people who want to distribute cheats, or allow them because banning them doesn't stop the cheating anyways?
Toggle Spoiler| Scrin wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 13:22 |
| cAmpa wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 12:45 |
Scrin, stop pming people to get the building bars.
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FUCK YOU AND THIS SHIT GAME WITH YOUR SCRIPTS!!! I HAVE ASKING YOU AND ANOTHER NOOBS HERE ABOUT HELP WITH THAT BUILDING ICONS FEATURES FOR YEARS, BUT YOU KEEP IGNORING ME AND KEEP WRITE SHIT, SO BURN YOU AND YOUR ASSLICKERS FRIENDS, THIS TIME I'M NOT COME BACK!!!!!!!!!
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[Updated on: Wed, 26 May 2010 04:42] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: RSF Raptor [message #429396 is a reply to message #429252] |
Wed, 26 May 2010 04:48 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9727
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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I think you're wrong on the exact reason why 0x90 is still here. It's not as much to not piss him off, but rather because some of the anti cheat creators made a deal with him (a few years ago) so he doesn't hack into anti cheat software any longer. In their eyes it's logic that if you do "business" with people (I'm not expressing myself on the nature of this business), you don't ban them from your home, as long as they respect the home rules of course.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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