Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » The Pointsfix and the Game Listings
| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406333 is a reply to message #406300] |
Fri, 09 October 2009 09:20   |
Cunin
Messages: 87
Registered: April 2007
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| Spoony wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 14:50 |
| Ethenal wrote |
Except that's not what you said at all, you said that you "inferred from Crimson's posts" that TT has both permission to patch Renegade AND to manage the XWIS listings.
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No, I just said the patching. This is the question I was answering at the time:
"Do TT have authority to apply a global patch to Renegade or is that still under negotiation?"
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This is a just a question, nothing else, so really EA gave TT the permission to release the "patch" freely, without even knowing what other communities thinks about it, what players thinks about it, and about its quality? Or they gave their OK but only if it meets certain conditions?
| Crimson wrote on Thu, 08 October 2009 14:56 |
| SoQRadio wrote on Thu, 08 October 2009 00:48 |
| Crimson wrote on Wed, 07 October 2009 23:14 |
The BHS(TT) ladder will be official and I have a box of goodies from EA to give as prizes.
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Here I disagree. As Cunin stated before, the current ladder doesnt reward good teamplay. Rather, it rewards pointwhoring.
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If you're not going to read the thread, then don't bother replying. Seriously. ONCE AGAIN, the ladder is being REBALANCED to reward other metrics besides just points. Should I also fax or carrier pigeon this to you, or perhaps tattoo it on your arm?
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Well that was said even when pointsfix was used in NS, but years passed and the ladder is still rewarding point-whorers, so let us have some doubts about that rebalancing work.
Also renegade isn't a deathmatch game, I don't think that a ladder for this game can be made, a ladder that takes account of what players are doing instead of how many points they earned.
Ladders can still be used for other modes, but for AOW I don't think that a really balanced ladder could ever be made.
[Updated on: Fri, 09 October 2009 09:25] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406339 is a reply to message #406319] |
Fri, 09 October 2009 10:10 |
kadoosh
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Registered: April 2004
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| Quote: |
| PapaElbo wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 09:40 |
| Spoony wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 15:50 |
you say: but it's justified.
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I said you bring it on yourself becasue you know the attitudes of most people at Jelly. I didnt say it was justified. This is another problem of yours Spoony. You twist words and invent these stories and present them as fact. Then use them over and over.
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Oh, so you admit it's NOT justified then?
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Are you willing to admit you knowingly bring it on yourself? You post, or visit, a place you aren't welcome for what ever reason. People there generally don't like you, or the way you conduct your opinion pieces. You know for a damn fact your opinion is going to start a flame war there. As my example you chose to ignore, You walk into a Bar and try to tell them their lifestyles are wrong then wonder why you are on the verge of being barred from there.
| Quote: |
| PapaElbo wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 09:40 |
| Spoony wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 15:50 |
well, neither of these actually puts me at fault.
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Of course! You are never at fault. This is what i meant about whether you ever considered the fact you are wrong.
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What an absurdly hypocritical contradiction.
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You put yourself at fault for putting yourself in the situation. If you need me to elaborate I will later.
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You give two reasons why I should be treated with contempt by the Jelly community - I point out that neither of these actually constitutes me doing something wrong, and your reply is "OH YEAH YOUR NEVER WRONG ARE YOU?!?"
Speak for yourself.
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I'm starting to feel like a broken record here. You Entered an establishment you are not welcome in. They haven't banned you so you are able to do so. However you continuously post things that you know will agitate them. Pointsfix, something about CW.cc here or there that you know they don't care about or want to hear. This puts you at fault as you are the instigator. You know what will happen when you do it so don't be surprised with the outcome.
| Quote: |
| PapaElbo wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 09:40 |
I barely know Clearshot and have never been part of a clan but i still know about this drama becasue you repeat it ad'nauseam every chance you get.
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Ah, so the problem ISN'T that a jelly moderator lied to the community again and again and again to make me look bad, and the rest of the community let him get away with it (in some cases actually lying to help him get away with it)... the problem is I caught him redhanded and pointing out how utterly pathetic it was?
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I know nothing of this so I won't even bother getting involved.
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| PapaElbo wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 09:40 |
What you are saying here when you break it all down is that you would rather the Jelly community flame and show astonishing levels of contempt to mgstpain. I suppose we all love a good roasting, as long as we are not the ones taking it.
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No, I didn't say I would particularly enjoy a lynch-mob aimed at msgtpain.
I said I'm rather surprised at the Jelly community's apparently total indifference to a moderator cheating while being a moderator, and continually lying to everyone to cover himself while doing so. But when they see someone with different opinions on the pointsfix, or someone daring to speak out about their control of the gamelistings, grab a stick and get in line, eh?
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If you don't want to see him lynched then why bring it up? As I said they will flame you there apparently for saying Hi. What makes you think the will read past title=Spoony and give 2 shits what you say? My best advise to you is stay away from there.
| Quote: |
| PapaElbo wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 09:40 |
| Spoony wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 15:50 |
clearly nobody can grasp the solid fact that if you wanna use the pointsfix in your own community, i don't care. really, i don't.
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I think everyone has got it by now.
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That's not the impression I get.
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Then Repeat it in 28 Font bold italics in hot pink, cause that's the only way it can get anymore clear.
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| PapaElbo wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 09:40 |
| Spoony wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 15:50 |
but many people in the jelly community have proven they DON'T want me to choose to use the pointsfix in mine.
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I dont think i have seen anyone trying to stop you using the pointsfix in your server. Unless you mean clanwars again and in which case, that was a community decision.
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Read what I said to Roni. He couldn't think of a response and was too humiliated to try... see if you can do better.
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Has to do with clanwars I'm not getting involved.
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| PapaElbo wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 09:40 |
I personally couldnt care less what you decide to do in your servers. I only care about your threats to steal Jelly's server nicks for your own purposes and the bad mouthing of my community on these forums.
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I personally couldn't care less about how Jelly servers are run, or even how the forums were run (it really doesn't bother me that the community's full of bullies who treat people like shit when you've done nothing wrong to them). I only care about their strangehold on the game listings and their fanatical inability to even maturely debate the issue at all.
Still...
"I only care about your threats to steal Jelly's server nicks for your own purposes"
Untrue.
"and the bad mouthing of my community on these forums"
Not only untrue but grossly hypocritical.
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In the first post I offered from around this time yesterday 3/4 of jelly's actual servers had people in them. Out of the remaining 4 being n00bstories, Atomix, Exodus, and n00bless
3 had players and 1 I got made fun of for counting because it had 1 person sitting in the server trying to get others to join. After those servers in the list there are 10 servers listed with 3 servers having people. 1 has 1 player and is grayed out. This is the sort by name listing btw.
In the Sort by Player count the Top 3 are in Jelly's Name range.
The following 5: 1 begins with a w and then storm, cloud, Then 2 more jelly name range servers. All in all out of the 18 servers there were 6 from the Jelly name range and 3 of which were Jelly Servers.
| Quote: |
| PapaElbo wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 09:40 |
And, there is no established authority for Jelly to answer to.
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There's TT... but more to the point, there's the community.
TT considers itself answerable to the community. We proved that with the pointsfix. Jelly has made no secret at all of the fact they DON'T consider themselves answerable to the community.
| PapaElbo wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 09:40 |
Crimson says that TT have control of XWIS so in effect, you could go ahead an do it right now anyway. So, why dont you?
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Precisely because we're better than the Jelly community.
I, personally, am quite satisfied with this thread's outcome. If anybody was in any doubt that the Jelly community is completely unqualified to manage this responsibility, they only need to look at this thread. They can then look at TT's track record, which is far superior in every conceivable sense.
You say I'm attacking jelly here? Don't need to, it's done a very good job of attacking itself.
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I know this is probably gonna piss you off, but I still Can't stand the thought of someone basically doing a redistribution of wealth on someone because of his server names. This point is null and void with 3.4.4 and Jonwill said 4.0 is more stable than that. So after the TT patch, will you then return the legally registered names back to jelly that you have decided he "cannot fairly manage".
Also if TT removed the server names from jelly they would in all fairness have to do it to everyone in the top 18 as they are all a00 names and I'm sure the a00 names stretch farther down. You mentioned that after this you don't believe that Jelly deserves a spot in the top. Thats fine if that's your opinion, but why stop there? Why not punish everyone benefiting from the nics. Clearly they are Using something that you consider acquired unfairly. So axe them all to the bottom of the list. That puts us where? Where does it stop? When Xwis let you register you had up to 9 nics you could register. He did 8 and if I read Crimsons reply correctly he Gave one to her so he now has 7. So now that leaves n00bles, Atomix, and Exodus essentially homeless. I don't think n00bless would be worse off as Hex said a majority of his people are gamespy users. So that's 6 servers and 3 communities you, in all fairness, must banish to the bottom of the list. Yes this is an extreme case scenario. I do admit you most likely won't go this far. Seriously where is it going to stop? So you get 7 of the top 8 names, why stop there?
If this is done I personally would not be surprised if you stopped seeing communities in Ren. If you came in and seized my shit I would not even bother resetting and just take my community on to other games away from this drama filled game.
Ren is hurting for more players...why not get rid of a few communities that have active players as this is what I foresee happening.
If you think I'm taking things to far, then this is probably how the Jelly Community is seeing your actions. 1 person speaking for an entire group who is out to Punish 1 Community for something that frankly is a point that holds as much water as a fishing net. Unless that is you have no faith in your patch.
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406351 is a reply to message #406325] |
Fri, 09 October 2009 11:38 |
Roni
Messages: 10
Registered: August 2008
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| Spoony wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 17:26 |
actually since you ask, yes I do think I have better judgement than the jelly community
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The truth is that you don't have better judgment than Jelly or his community. He is still running a successful community that you or I are not. I am sure you will come up with some bs story about how the community didn't want pointfix so they sabotaged your CC league. Please stfu with your rants about being a failure as a leader.
You complain about having a pure server up on the top list but you fail to even pursuade Crimson(who happens to have a top listed name) to do this and she is part of TT. You can't even get that server owner on your own committee to agree with your opinions. Grow up Spoony, you have failed again..
Roni
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406354 is a reply to message #406351] |
Fri, 09 October 2009 13:11 |
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Crimson
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
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General (5 Stars)
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| Roni wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 11:38 |
You complain about having a pure server up on the top list but you fail to even pursuade Crimson(who happens to have a top listed name) to do this and she is part of TT. You can't even get that server owner on your own committee to agree with your opinions. Grow up Spoony, you have failed again..
Roni
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Don't make such assumptions with no proof. If I publicly sided with Spoony on this, wouldn't one assume that it might provoke Jelly to take the nickname I'm using back from me, even though he's already said that the nickname is mine permanently?
You might infer what my position is on this matter if you became (or are) aware that I have been a recent victim of exactly what Spoony is attacking in this thread.
I'm the bawss.
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406362 is a reply to message #405549] |
Fri, 09 October 2009 14:21 |
masterkna
Messages: 69
Registered: October 2008
Location: The Abyss, NY
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that's completely untrue crimson, spoony is attacking jelly's use of those names. he said it himself that if jelly relinquishes control of those names, that certain communities would get one, including n00bstories.
 | GEORGE ZIMMER wrote on Wed, 26 August 2009 |
Then again, banning anyone for anything automatically makes you a biased prick who shouldn't be a moderator.
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lol
[Updated on: Fri, 09 October 2009 14:21] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406363 is a reply to message #406319] |
Fri, 09 October 2009 14:42 |
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papaelbo
Messages: 46
Registered: October 2007
Location: In ur sewer......
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Once more...with feeling, eh...?
Well, I am getting tired of this to be honest. I think this will be my last post unless of course something completely outrageous gets put on here.
I think keeping track of everything and sitting around for an hour or two reading, editing, linking and responding to each point is a waste of time when the TT patch will negate this entire issue.
Well, here we go. MAMMOTH TANK SIZED POST INC.....
| Spoony wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 10:05 |
You can tell a sentence is gonna be bullshit when this is how it starts.
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Or, i could have just been tired at 4am and that is why the response didnt match the quote. Again you have invented a fiction in your head just to make me look stupid and posted that instead of responding to what i actually wrote.
| Spoony wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 10:05 |
| PapaElbo wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 09:40 |
keep referring to random incidents that happened years ago, linking seemingly unrelated issues and drawing your own conclusions
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Specifically?
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Why should i have to go back and pull specific quotes out? I dont keep copies of everthing or links to specific posts. If anyone is even still bothered with reading this thread then they will know what i am referring to. I certainly shouldnt have to point it out to you Spoony.
Random incidents - your clanwars baggage, mgstpain, your assertion that the jelly community are all bullies.
Seemingly unrelated issues - clanwars, TT patches, the pointsfix, pure servers, your new ladder vs the Jelly Community and Jelly's A00 nicks.
Drawing your own conclusions - see your original post for that one. It is not an objective assessment of the situation, it is a diatribe of false invention, one sided opinionation and conclusions based upon fiction stated as fact. If you want to do it right, then get someone who is independant, get them to post the problem (if there even is one) without prejudice or favor and then discuss it properly - preferably in private with the other server owners but certainly in public if that is the preference.
| Spoony wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 10:05 |
| PapaElbo wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 09:40 |
drawing your own conclusions which attack the good standing and character of the community which i am a part of.
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Specifically?
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Again, see your first post and others in just this thread alone for more than enough of this. You really dont need to play dumb here.
| Spoony wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 10:05 |
Besides, plenty of the Jelly community do this to me all the time, they've done it several times in this thread, and they usually get caught lying in the attempt. You don't seem to mind that.
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So its an eye for an eye then Spoony? Nice responsible and mature attitude. Plus a little invention again. How do you know what i mind or dont mind. I see people (mostly clanwars people) who post about the pointsfix and get into heated discussions with you. I enjoyed reading your debates but to be honest, I think you are at fault when things get out of hand just as much as they are.
| Spoony wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 10:05 |
| PapaElbo wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 09:40 |
| Spoony wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 15:50 |
you say: but it's justified.
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I said you bring it on yourself becasue you know the attitudes of most people at Jelly. I didnt say it was justified. This is another problem of yours Spoony. You twist words and invent these stories and present them as fact. Then use them over and over.
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Oh, so you admit it's NOT justified then?
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Oh, so you admit you DO jump to conclusions then?
Let me go through it again. I said you bring it on yourself becasue you know the attitudes of most people at Jelly. You are intelligent enough to know what response you will receive whether it is on the pointsfix, about clanwar issues or just general chat or catching cheats. I didnt say it was justified. I also didnt say it was unjustified.
You provoke people to be extreme in their opinions (probably deliberately) becasue if they were not 100% absolutely sure, you would pick them apart. So, i believe, you reap what you sow. That is all.
| Spoony wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 10:05 |
| PapaElbo wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 09:40 |
| Spoony wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 15:50 |
well, neither of these actually puts me at fault.
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Of course! You are never at fault.
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What an absurdly hypocritical contradiction.
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Ha ha! In my head you sounded like Niles Crane from Fraser! In any case, likewise. Nice dodge.
| Spoony wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 10:05 |
You give two reasons why I should be treated with contempt by the Jelly community - I point out that neither of these actually constitutes me doing something wrong, and your reply is "OH YEAH YOUR NEVER WRONG ARE YOU?!?"
Speak for yourself.
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I did not give any reasons to justify why you should be treated with contempt. Keep making it up. As stated above, you reap what you sow. I am just here responding to what i see. I have no malice towards you, TT or the community so please dont put words in my mouth. If you come to a community and start a thread about something you know will cause problems then you are deliberately asking for trouble and therefore, you are by definition a disruptive influence to that community.
| Spoony wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 10:05 |
| PapaElbo wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 09:40 |
I barely know Clearshot and have never been part of a clan but i still know about this drama becasue you repeat it ad'nauseam every chance you get.
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Ah, so the problem ISN'T that a jelly moderator lied to the community again and again and again to make me look bad, and the rest of the community let him get away with it (in some cases actually lying to help him get away with it)... the problem is I caught him redhanded and pointing out how utterly pathetic it was?
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No, stop making it up please.
The problem is you keep going on about it. I have no idea why mgstpain decided to cheat. From my experience, he was hardly ever online and nobody could ever tell me much about him. Not that i made many enquries. He was one of those random mods who was never there and so when he was, I never talked to him.
| Spoony wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 10:05 |
| PapaElbo wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 09:40 |
Who is treating you with contempt and why is the level astonishing?
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Are you blind?
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No. Do you tend to over-exaggerate? Quite possibly! Also, please keep this greivance in perspective. When you say "the Jelly Community" you probably mean the handful of clanwars players who frequent the jelly servers. Not the ENTIRE community.
I see various people coming in here and trying to respond to your claims regarding the Jelly community. If you feel like you are being treated with contempt then i would refer you to the second part of the above quote. Why would this be astonishing considering the magnitude of what you are proposing to do to us?
| Spoony wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 10:05 |
| PapaElbo wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 09:40 |
What you are saying here when you break it all down is that you would rather the Jelly community flame and show astonishing levels of contempt to mgstpain. I suppose we all love a good roasting, as long as we are not the ones taking it.
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No, I didn't say I would particularly enjoy a lynch-mob aimed at msgtpain.
I said I'm rather surprised at the Jelly community's apparently total indifference to a moderator cheating while being a moderator, and continually lying to everyone to cover himself while doing so. But when they see someone with different opinions on the pointsfix, or someone daring to speak out about their control of the gamelistings, grab a stick and get in line, eh?
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So, you are surprised at the lack of a lynch-mob aimed at msgtpain? Nice mature and responsible attitude.
Isnt that what cheaters do? Continually lie to cover themselves and abuse the trust of others to get away with it? For a mod to do this, is unforgivable but in the end, its just another level of trust that has been abused. Yes it makes a difference that he was a mod but to be honest, i rarely saw the guy in game and didnt even know him that well. Didnt he leave the game for a while? I never saw him around for a very long time. Then one day someone turns up on a smurf nick out of the blue on J-Marathon who is clearly hacking and within a week or two, he is banned. When i heard it was mgstpain, yes i was shocked and dissapointed. But, now when i look at him, he is just another douchebag who got caught and banned.
I dont even think most of the current regulars at Jelly even knew who he was. Obviously the older players did but thats besides the point. You cant compare a reaction to say a mod who was caught cheating to a mod who has just advocated the forced removal of our server's nicks for the benefit of this mods "other" community of which he is also a senior member.
I became aware of you Spoony when i first came to Jelly and admired your level of commitment to the job and how you would calmly and objectively put your point across in each case. But, lately you have been losing it and in this thread particularly your calm objective attitude has gone completely out the window with the first post. And here you are, stabbing our community in the back - and for what? There may be reasons for this that i am not aware of (which is fine, i dont need to know). I just think if you had been more objective and had not made up your own conclusions in your original post, then we wouldnt be here 13 pages later talking more about you rather than your issues.
| Spoony wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 10:05 |
| PapaElbo wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 09:40 |
| Spoony wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 15:50 |
clearly nobody can grasp the solid fact that if you wanna use the pointsfix in your own community, i don't care. really, i don't.
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I think everyone has got it by now.
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That's not the impression I get.
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Well, it is the impression i get. Its not really that hard to understand. The pointsfix will be optional server side and the ladder will apply a rating to a server based on its differential to basic pure Renegade. Simple. 
| Spoony wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 10:05 |
| PapaElbo wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 09:40 |
| Spoony wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 15:50 |
but many people in the jelly community have proven they DON'T want me to choose to use the pointsfix in mine.
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I dont think i have seen anyone trying to stop you using the pointsfix in your server. Unless you mean clanwars again and in which case, that was a community decision.
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Read what I said to Roni. He couldn't think of a response and was too humiliated to try... see if you can do better.
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I have no clue what you mean by this? Is it this?
| Spoony wrote on Fri, 08 October 2009 23:12 |
Has it ever occurred to you that there isn't actually anything wrong with me disagreeing with you on something?
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Under normal circumstances, there wouldnt be anything wrong with you disagreeing with me or anyone else for that matter. But these are not normal circumstances. You posted a clearly biased tirade which lead to a threat to remove the server nicks from Jelly. If we consider your position within TT and the fact it is TT that controls XWIS then i would say there is a pretty good chance of this happening. And in my opinion, it would be very unfair if it did happen.
| Spoony wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 10:05 |
I personally couldn't care less about how Jelly servers are run
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Untrue. Jelly is supposedly irresponsible with their servers and their "monopoly" must be halted!! No?
| Spoony wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 10:05 |
or even how the forums were run (it really doesn't bother me that the community's full of bullies who treat people like shit when you've done nothing wrong to them).
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Untrue. Gross exaggeration. One or two idiots does not consitute a community of bullies.
| Spoony wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 10:05 |
I only care about their strangehold on the game listings and their fanatical inability to even maturely debate the issue at all.
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I think everyone has a fanatical inability to debate with you Spoony. Did i not try to maturely debate with you?
| Spoony wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 10:05 |
Still...
"I only care about your threats to steal Jelly's server nicks for your own purposes"
Untrue.
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How so? Please enlighten me on what i care about.
| Spoony wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 10:05 |
"and the bad mouthing of my community on these forums"
Not only untrue but grossly hypocritical.
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How so? Please enlighten me on what i care about.
| Spoony wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 10:05 |
| PapaElbo wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 09:40 |
How about.....there is no crime that Jelly has to answer for.
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I didn't suggest that there was. I was criticising all the power his community has and suggested it would be better in more responsible hands. That's all. They've tried to sidestep this completely legitimate opinion in essentially two ways:
1. "you should have talked about this privately"
2. "you're only doing this because we took the pointsfix off"
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Er....so the Jelly Community has done nothing wrong. The Jelly Community, in your view, holds too much "power". They have committed no crime to justify your criticism of this "power". You just think that this "power" would be better of in the hands of the group you represent. TT.
I dont know. I dont think you have a leg to stand on. The server nicks were farily obtained through the established procedure of the time. The "power" of the Jelly community was earned through trust, gamesmanship, professionalism and respect for other communities over 4 years.
You have a problem with a small number of the community - mostly clanwars or anti pointsfix people who you provoke specifically to create disruption within the community. That is neither responsible nor mature.
You also forgot:
3. you could be doing this because you want to promote your own style of gameplay, have your own servers with the pointsfix at the top of the listings.
4. you could be doing this becasue you are pissed at Jelly or the community at large and want some kind of revenge.
5. you could be doing this becasue you want TT to have a more visible role in the community considering the lack of updates over the last two years.
| Spoony wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 10:05 |
| PapaElbo wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 09:40 |
And, there is no established authority for Jelly to answer to.
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There's TT... but more to the point, there's the community.
TT considers itself answerable to the community. We proved that with the pointsfix. Jelly has made no secret at all of the fact they DON'T consider themselves answerable to the community.
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Well, maybe because Jelly are a member OF the community so with your logic, TT should be answerable to Jelly. No?
If Jelly were answerable to all the other communities, how would that work? What would Jelly be answering to? TT is an organisation in charge of XWIS, the TT patch and the community forums and probably a ton of other stuff i have no idea about. Since TT is a merger of several teams, projects and companies then sure, ill accept TT as the impartial community leader. The second they start up their own servers, then they become competitors and therefore no longer impartial.
| Spoony wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 10:05 |
Precisely because we're better than the Jelly community.
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Opinion is not fact and "better" is a subjective term. Better how?
| Spoony wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 10:05 |
I, personally, am quite satisfied with this thread's outcome. If anybody was in any doubt that the Jelly community is completely unqualified to manage this responsibility, they only need to look at this thread. They can then look at TT's track record, which is far superior in every conceivable sense.
You say I'm attacking jelly here? Don't need to, it's done a very good job of attacking itself.
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Oh, this arrogance is really annoying me. You claimed responsibility over something that required none for your own personal gain. You stired up tensions in the Jelly Community right before coming here, possibly deliberately. You have repeatedly stated opinions as facts. You have proven nothing except how we can expect TT to deal with the community in future.
I thought better of you Spoony. I am dissapointed.
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406370 is a reply to message #406354] |
Fri, 09 October 2009 15:44 |
Roni
Messages: 10
Registered: August 2008
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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| Crimson wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 15:11 |
| Roni wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 11:38 |
You complain about having a pure server up on the top list but you fail to even pursuade Crimson(who happens to have a top listed name) to do this and she is part of TT. You can't even get that server owner on your own committee to agree with your opinions. Grow up Spoony, you have failed again..
Roni
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Don't make such assumptions with no proof. If I publicly sided with Spoony on this, wouldn't one assume that it might provoke Jelly to take the nickname I'm using back from me, even though he's already said that the nickname is mine permanently?
You might infer what my position is on this matter if you became (or are) aware that I have been a recent victim of exactly what Spoony is attacking in this thread.
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You are assuming Jelly would take that away when he in fact told you he would not?
This whole issue is driven by one less than honorable person. That is Spoony. He has lied over and over about what people are stating as opinions and he just can't fathome the thought that people actually enjoy the game the way it was designed and rolled out to the Renegade community. No one is stopping Spoony from having a pure server. No one stopping Spoony from anything. He reminds me of those kids who want attention and choose to incite individuals because he lacks self esteem.
Roni
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406382 is a reply to message #406339] |
Fri, 09 October 2009 18:10 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915
Registered: January 2006
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars)
Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
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| Cunin wrote |
Well that was said even when pointsfix was used in NS, but years passed and the ladder is still rewarding point-whorers, so let us have some doubts about that rebalancing work.
Also renegade isn't a deathmatch game, I don't think that a ladder for this game can be made, a ladder that takes account of what players are doing instead of how many points they earned.
Ladders can still be used for other modes, but for AOW I don't think that a really balanced ladder could ever be made.
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I've been putting a great deal of thought into making the new ladder as good as it can be, we'll probably have some announcements about it fairly soon once we get a bit closer.
| kadoosh wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 12:10 |
Are you willing to admit you knowingly bring it on yourself?
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I will assert that I will say what I think even if a few retards are gonna freak out over it. I don't think the word "admit" is appropriate there... it's not an admission, it's an assertion.
| kadoosh wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 12:10 |
You post, or visit, a place you aren't welcome for what ever reason. People there generally don't like you, or the way you conduct your opinion pieces. You know for a damn fact your opinion is going to start a flame war there.
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None of this constitutes fault on my part.
Imagine you play on a particular server and the regulars hate you for nothing more than the fact you always win, and let's assume you don't play unfairly in any way; you don't cheat, you abide by the rules and you don't talk shit to anybody. But everyone despises you because they can't stand losing and it's what always happens to them when you join.
Should you be criticised for this? Just because it freaks them out, does this put you at fault?
| kadoosh wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 12:10 |
As my example you chose to ignore, You walk into a Bar and try to tell them their lifestyles are wrong then wonder why you are on the verge of being barred from there.
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Well, I don't think comparing the Jelly community to a gay bar is a particularly good analogy... a gay bar is probably friendlier.
| kadoosh wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 12:10 |
You put yourself at fault for putting yourself in the situation. If you need me to elaborate I will later.
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see above re: a renegade server
| kadoosh wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 12:10 |
I'm starting to feel like a broken record here. You Entered an establishment you are not welcome in. They haven't banned you so you are able to do so. However you continuously post things that you know will agitate them. Pointsfix, something about CW.cc here or there that you know they don't care about or want to hear. This puts you at fault as you are the instigator.
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Everyone else is always talking about the pointsfix. It's fairly rare I actually start the debate. I did start the recent thread about the ladder, but that's something that was totally new. As for talking about CW, clearshot started that - he wanted to make the ladder look bad somehow, so he made up a bunch of ridiculous lies about my history on clanwars.cc. I just caught him out.
Well, yes, I suppose if someone tries that kind of character assassination against you and you catch him red-handed, you probably will agitate him.
| kadoosh wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 12:10 |
I know nothing of this so I won't even bother getting involved.
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You kinda already did; "However you continuously post things that you know will agitate them. Pointsfix, something about CW.cc here or there that you know they don't care about or want to hear."
| kadoosh wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 12:10 |
If you don't want to see him lynched then why bring it up?
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The explanation is in the post you just quoted. I just find it very telling their lack of anger towards msgtpain... as prulez said, you complain about what you care about.
| kadoosh wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 12:10 |
As I said they will flame you there apparently for saying Hi. What makes you think the will read past title=Spoony and give 2 shits what you say? My best advise to you is stay away from there.
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Thanks for the advice, I think I'll take it.
| Roni wrote |
The truth is that you don't have better judgment than Jelly or his community. He is still running a successful community that you or I are not. I am sure you will come up with some bs story about how the community didn't want pointfix so they sabotaged your CC league. Please stfu with your rants about being a failure as a leader.
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Clanwars was doing OK when I left Renegade to look after a relative with cancer. If these priorities make me a "failure as a leader", I suppose I must accept that. But that's a low blow even by your standards, roni.
| Roni wrote |
You complain about having a pure server up on the top list but you fail to even pursuade Crimson(who happens to have a top listed name) to do this and she is part of TT. You can't even get that server owner on your own committee to agree with your opinions.
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What a hopeless argument. N00bstories has been there since before I even bought the game.
| Roni wrote |
He has lied over and over about what people are stating as opinions
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Must you further dismantle your already-shaky credibility on this forum with your false accusations?
| Roni wrote |
and he just can't fathome the thought that people actually enjoy the game the way it was designed and rolled out to the Renegade community.
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Um yes I can, that's why I support your right to play without pointsfix.
| Roni wrote |
No one is stopping Spoony from having a pure server. No one stopping Spoony from anything.
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Except for that little episode when I wanted to use the pointsfix in the clanwars league, and a small group of cheaters actively sabotaged it... and you supported them over me. You can say you support a community's choice of pointsfix or not, but you've already proven you don't.
| PapaElbo wrote |
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You can tell a sentence is gonna be bullshit when this is how it starts.
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Or, i could have just been tired at 4am and that is why the response didnt match the quote. Again you have invented a fiction in your head just to make me look stupid and posted that instead of responding to what i actually wrote.
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So once again it's my fault your posts don't make sense? Jeez.
| PapaElbo wrote |
Why should i have to go back and pull specific quotes out? I dont keep copies of everthing or links to specific posts. If anyone is even still bothered with reading this thread then they will know what i am referring to. I certainly shouldnt have to point it out to you Spoony.
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I didn't ask for links, just examples. Thankfully you're about to give them.
| PapaElbo wrote |
Random incidents - your clanwars baggage, mgstpain, your assertion that the jelly community are all bullies.
Seemingly unrelated issues - clanwars, TT patches, the pointsfix, pure servers, your new ladder vs the Jelly Community and Jelly's A00 nicks.
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ok.
clanwars? this could mean one of two things.
1. clearshot (jelly moderator) lying to the community again and again and again to try to make me look bad because this is the only way he could think of to criticise the ladder.
^^ since he brought this up, i fail to see why i'm at fault here. all i did was prove that every single word he said was a lie.
2. what happened when i wanted to use the pointsfix in clanwars. this is not irrelevant at all, because i mention it in reply to people saying "we just want to use the pointsfix in our community spoony, why cant you accept that?" to which the answer is: i do accept it, it's fine with me, but when i wanted to use the pointsfix in MY community and a bunch of cheaters sabotaged it, you were on their side instead of mine. That's not irrelevant, that's an incredibly damning rebuttal to someone else's bullshit.
msgtpain is irrelevant. yes, indeed... most of jelly thinks the same. nobody really minded what happened there, compared to the outrage at my having differing opinions on the pointsfix and whatnot
new ladder? is that irrelevant? we're trying to revamp the official ladder and i'm just telling people my ideas. obviously a lot of people cared about the ladder, otherwise they wouldn't have gotten so angry at it not being the way they wanted. to them, it's not irrelevant.
| PapaElbo wrote |
Drawing your own conclusions - see your original post for that one. It is not an objective assessment of the situation, it is a diatribe of false invention, one sided opinionation and conclusions based upon fiction stated as fact.
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if that were the case, one would think you wouldn't have such a hard time refuting it.
| PapaElbo wrote |
If you want to do it right, then get someone who is independant, get them to post the problem (if there even is one) without prejudice or favor and then discuss it properly - preferably in private with the other server owners but certainly in public if that is the preference.
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ah, the jelly community tries to think of another way to avoid answering the criticism. "get someone else to say it."
| PapaElbo wrote |
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Besides, plenty of the Jelly community do this to me all the time, they've done it several times in this thread, and they usually get caught lying in the attempt. You don't seem to mind that.
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So its an eye for an eye then Spoony? Nice responsible and mature attitude.
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no, because i don't accept that i'm doing it.
you said: spoony does X.
i said: no i'm not, but the jelly community are.
you then say: HAH! SO YOU'RE DOING IT OUT OF REVENGE!
me (very slowly): no, i'm not doing it at all, but your friends are and you don't seem to mind.
| PapaElbo wrote |
Plus a little invention again. How do you know what i mind or dont mind.
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I only see one person you're currently furious at.
| PapaElbo wrote |
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Oh, so you admit it's NOT justified then?
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Oh, so you admit you DO jump to conclusions then?
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Sidestepping the question yet again.
| PapaElbo wrote |
Let me go through it again. I said you bring it on yourself becasue you know the attitudes of most people at Jelly. You are intelligent enough to know what response you will receive whether it is on the pointsfix, about clanwar issues or just general chat or catching cheats. I didnt say it was justified. I also didnt say it was unjustified.
You provoke people to be extreme in their opinions (probably deliberately) becasue if they were not 100% absolutely sure, you would pick them apart. So, i believe, you reap what you sow. That is all.
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So in a nutshell your argument is: people treat you like shit even though you don't do anything wrong, but this still means it's your fault because you still post there knowing what a bunch of twats they are, no matter how mature and civilised your posts are by comparison?
Well, I suppose that does make a wild flailing kind of sense (though you really need to go out of your way to see it), but one would think there are far better targets for criticism here?
See my response to kadoosh re: renegade server.
| PapaElbo wrote |
If you come to a community and start a thread about something you know will cause problems then you are deliberately asking for trouble and therefore, you are by definition a disruptive influence to that community.
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So to take the most obvious example, would you rather I didn't tell them my plans for the ladder at all?
| PapaElbo wrote |
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Who is treating you with contempt and why is the level astonishing?
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Are you blind?
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No. Do you tend to over-exaggerate? Quite possibly! Also, please keep this greivance in perspective. When you say "the Jelly Community" you probably mean the handful of clanwars players who frequent the jelly servers. Not the ENTIRE community.
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I see various people coming in here and trying to respond to your claims regarding the Jelly community. If you feel like you are being treated with contempt then i would refer you to the second part of the above quote. Why would this be astonishing considering the magnitude of what you are proposing to do to us?[/quote]
I wasn't talking about this forum, I was talking about the jelly forum. As for trying to excuse it by this current topic, perhaps you can then explain the fact that it's been happening for a year or more.
| PapaElbo wrote |
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No, I didn't say I would particularly enjoy a lynch-mob aimed at msgtpain.
I said I'm rather surprised at the Jelly community's apparently total indifference to a moderator cheating while being a moderator, and continually lying to everyone to cover himself while doing so. But when they see someone with different opinions on the pointsfix, or someone daring to speak out about their control of the gamelistings, grab a stick and get in line, eh?
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So, you are surprised at the lack of a lynch-mob aimed at msgtpain? Nice mature and responsible attitude.
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You turned that post - a very telling statement about the true priorities of the Jelly community - into an argument against me?
I almost feel like commending you on the extraordinary amount of logic you must've had to suppress to do that.
| PapaElbo wrote |
You cant compare a reaction to say a mod who was caught cheating to a mod who has just advocated the forced removal of our server's nicks for the benefit of this mods "other" community of which he is also a senior member.
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So let's ignore all posts that were made after I started this topic and just focus on the ones before it. It's not like this thread turned the Jelly community from courteous towards me into frothing lunatics. The mouths have been foaming for some time.
| PapaElbo wrote |
I became aware of you Spoony when i first came to Jelly and admired your level of commitment to the job and how you would calmly and objectively put your point across in each case. But, lately you have been losing it and in this thread particularly your calm objective attitude has gone completely out the window with the first post.
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No, it hasn't. My method of argument has not changed in the slightest.
| PapaElbo wrote |
And here you are, stabbing our community in the back
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No? Just criticising the a00 monopoly.
| PapaElbo wrote |
I just think if you had been more objective and had not made up your own conclusions in your original post, then we wouldnt be here 13 pages later talking more about you rather than your issues.
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It was as objective as any other post of mine, including the ones you "admired". Since you now feel you're on the receiving end and this is the only thing that's changed, let's not have you telling me to be objective again, eh?
| PapaElbo wrote |
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That's not the impression I get.
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Well, it is the impression i get. Its not really that hard to understand.
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Roni can't be that bright, then.
| PapaElbo wrote |
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Read what I said to Roni. He couldn't think of a response and was too humiliated to try... see if you can do better.
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I have no clue what you mean by this? Is it this?
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It's what i said to Roni about what happened when I decided to use the pointsfix. it was sabotaged by a group of cheaters through a campaign of lies, manipulation and rigged polls. Roni supported the saboteurs instead of the admin. He was not alone in this view; quite a few others did too.
People say they want each community to have a choice, pointsfix or no. But when people support the cheaters who subvert a community's decision, they instantly destroy their own credibility to say this.
| PapaElbo wrote |
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Has it ever occurred to you that there isn't actually anything wrong with me disagreeing with you on something?
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Under normal circumstances, there wouldnt be anything wrong with you disagreeing with me or anyone else for that matter.
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Whoops. What a crippling blow to your earlier argument.
| PapaElbo wrote |
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I personally couldn't care less about how Jelly servers are run
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Untrue. Jelly is supposedly irresponsible with their servers and their "monopoly" must be halted!! No?
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No, because my arguments to support the position I expressed in this thread don't need to include Jelly servers being run poorly.
| PapaElbo wrote |
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or even how the forums were run (it really doesn't bother me that the community's full of bullies who treat people like shit when you've done nothing wrong to them).
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Untrue. Gross exaggeration. One or two idiots does not consitute a community of bullies.
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I'm starting to think you have a huge blindspot. Go look at the Jelly forums.
| PapaElbo wrote |
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I only care about their strangehold on the game listings and their fanatical inability to even maturely debate the issue at all.
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I think everyone has a fanatical inability to debate with you Spoony. Did i not try to maturely debate with you?
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Since you used the word "try", I suppose I have to say yes. To the best of your abilities, I've no doubt.
| PapaElbo wrote |
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"I only care about your threats to steal Jelly's server nicks for your own purposes"
Untrue.
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How so? Please enlighten me on what i care about.
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No, I said it was untrue that I threatened to steal Jelly's server nicks for my own purposes. That's a sentence which contains almost as many errors as it does actual words, which is almost praiseworthy in its limited way.
| PapaElbo wrote |
"and the bad mouthing of my community on these forums"
Not only untrue but grossly hypocritical.
How so? Please enlighten me on what i care about.
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Once again, the thing I said was untrue was "the bad mouthing of my community", not "you care about this".
| PapaElbo wrote |
The Jelly Community, in your view, holds too much "power".
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Yes.
| PapaElbo wrote |
They have committed no crime to justify your criticism of this "power".
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Read what you just said.
A crime is not necessary to justify criticism of power. It is legitimate to say "one single community shouldn't have this authority" even if they aren't abusing it.
| PapaElbo wrote |
You just think that this "power" would be better of in the hands of the group you represent. TT.
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Yes, and the evidence supports it.
Once again... when TT is criticised about the pointsfix, we went to extraordinary lengths to accommodate different viewpoints, and eventually gave the community everything they wanted.
When Jelly is criticised about their game listing monopoly, they say: fuck off, we don't have to explain ourselves to you.
This alone says a great deal about who's in a better position to handle this power.
| PapaElbo wrote |
The server nicks were farily obtained through the established procedure of the time.
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Frankly, I don't believe the established procedure of the time bore the Renegade game listings in mind.
| PapaElbo wrote |
You have a problem with a small number of the community - mostly clanwars or anti pointsfix people who you provoke specifically to create disruption within the community. That is neither responsible nor mature.
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I don't provoke anybody specifically. I will certainly defend myself when I'm attacked, though, as I continually have been at Jelly for a year or so.
| PapaElbo wrote |
You also forgot:
3. you could be doing this because you want to promote your own style of gameplay, have your own servers with the pointsfix at the top of the listings.
4. you could be doing this becasue you are pissed at Jelly or the community at large and want some kind of revenge.
5. you could be doing this becasue you want TT to have a more visible role in the community considering the lack of updates over the last two years.
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That's right. I certainly could have mentioned these other false accusations the Jelly community made as an excuse for not facing the actual criticism.
| PapaElbo wrote |
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TT considers itself answerable to the community. We proved that with the pointsfix. Jelly has made no secret at all of the fact they DON'T consider themselves answerable to the community.
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Well, maybe because Jelly are a member OF the community so with your logic, TT should be answerable to Jelly. No?
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Um, we actually DID prove we are answerable to the wider community, including jelly. jelly's proven they don't consider themselves answerable to anybody. i don't think you're acknowledging this extremely important point.
| PapaElbo wrote |
TT is an organisation in charge of XWIS, the TT patch and the community forums and probably a ton of other stuff i have no idea about. Since TT is a merger of several teams, projects and companies then sure, ill accept TT as the impartial community leader. The second they start up their own servers, then they become competitors and therefore no longer impartial.
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Ah, right, so impartiality is the issue. Therefore the names are better in the hands of the Jelly servers, who use as many as they like and give them out based on their own personal preferences.
Sigh...
[quote title=PapaElbo wrote]| Quote: |
Precisely because we're better than the Jelly community.
Opinion is not fact and "better" is a subjective term. Better how?
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see above re: far better track record in terms of accountability, approachability, maturity, unbias...
| PapaElbo wrote |
Oh, this arrogance is really annoying me. You claimed responsibility over something that required none for your own personal gain.
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If this is your honest viewpoint, go back to the very start of this thread and start again.
| PapaElbo wrote |
You stired up tensions in the Jelly Community right before coming here, possibly deliberately.
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Is this another case of "you post there where you know the community's full of twats who'll flame you even though you do nothing wrong, which in fact means you're doing something wrong by saying anything at all no matter how civilised"?
| PapaElbo wrote |
You have proven nothing except how we can expect TT to deal with the community in future.
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Indeed.
After it's been made perfectly apparent how utterly unqualified Jelly is to handle this power, and how much better TT would be, we still probably aren't going to act upon it even though we seem to have the power to do so.
For the second time in a row, I'm the "better man". And yes, you can continue to expect this level of reasonableness and maturity from me in the future, no matter how contemptibly your community treats me.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
[Updated on: Fri, 09 October 2009 18:50] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406384 is a reply to message #406372] |
Fri, 09 October 2009 18:15 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915
Registered: January 2006
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars)
Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
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| liquidv2 wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 17:58 |
is there anyone that doesn't instantly think of Spoony when they see that?
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Hmmm.
For Tireless Rebutter there is no such thing as a trivial dispute.
There certainly are very trivial disputes.
He regards all challenges as barbarians at the gates.
If I was to choose a metaphor, I think I'd probably go with wasps.
His unflagging tenacity in making his points numbs and eventually wears down the opposition.
Understatement. The word "infuriates" ought to be in there too.
Confident that his arguments are sound
This applies to most people, but when people lose an argument they say it about the winner as if it's an insult.
Tireless Rebutter can't understand why he is universally loathed.
if you're talking about Jelly, I can certainly understand that. If you remember, we had a little chat about it a while ago when I was playing anonymously. You agreed with what I said.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406388 is a reply to message #406384] |
Fri, 09 October 2009 19:19 |
rcmorr09
Messages: 73
Registered: June 2003
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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| Spoony wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 21:15 |
| liquidv2 wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 17:58 |
is there anyone that doesn't instantly think of Spoony when they see that?
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Hmmm.
For Tireless Rebutter there is no such thing as a trivial dispute.
There certainly are very trivial disputes.
He regards all challenges as barbarians at the gates.
If I was to choose a metaphor, I think I'd probably go with wasps.
His unflagging tenacity in making his points numbs and eventually wears down the opposition.
Understatement. The word "infuriates" ought to be in there too.
Confident that his arguments are sound
This applies to most people, but when people lose an argument they say it about the winner as if it's an insult.
Tireless Rebutter can't understand why he is universally loathed.
if you're talking about Jelly, I can certainly understand that. If you remember, we had a little chat about it a while ago when I was playing anonymously. You agreed with what I said.
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lol, awesome.
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406397 is a reply to message #406382] |
Fri, 09 October 2009 19:38 |
kadoosh
Messages: 90
Registered: April 2004
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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| Spoony wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 21:10 |
| kadoosh wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 12:10 |
You post, or visit, a place you aren't welcome for what ever reason. People there generally don't like you, or the way you conduct your opinion pieces. You know for a damn fact your opinion is going to start a flame war there.
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None of this constitutes fault on my part.
Imagine you play on a particular server and the regulars hate you for nothing more than the fact you always win, and let's assume you don't play unfairly in any way; you don't cheat, you abide by the rules and you don't talk shit to anybody. But everyone despises you because they can't stand losing and it's what always happens to them when you join.
Should you be criticised for this? Just because it freaks them out, does this put you at fault?
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If the regulars hated me for what ever reason I would stay away from there. I'm not a drama hound. I don't go play places to see how many people I can piss off. If I know damn good and well that they hate me, and I join their server anyway and someone starts giving me shit, then Yes it IS my fault. I had the opportunity to avoid the situation and I did not. Skill level or not if you are Knowingly going into somewhere that you know you are going to be involved in some shit then yes you should stay away. If you go in then you are just as much at fault as the people giving you shit.
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| kadoosh wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 12:10 |
As my example you chose to ignore, You walk into a Bar and try to tell them their lifestyles are wrong then wonder why you are on the verge of being barred from there.
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Well, I don't think comparing the Jelly community to a gay bar is a particularly good analogy... a gay bar is probably friendlier.
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While that seems kind of funny It is a relevant comparison. You go into the Jelly forums and basically tell them the way they play via the point system is wrong and the point fix is right. This is you telling them that their choices are wrong. This is instigating something. You know they don't like it and you do it anyway. You bring it on yourself. Is it justified? Hell I don't know I don't visit Jelly's forums to see what they say in response, BUT if you continue to do it knowing they are going to react that way then yes you are at fault.
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| kadoosh wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 12:10 |
You put yourself at fault for putting yourself in the situation. If you need me to elaborate I will later.
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see above re: a renegade server
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Answered above re:re: a renegade server
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| kadoosh wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 12:10 |
I'm starting to feel like a broken record here. You Entered an establishment you are not welcome in. They haven't banned you so you are able to do so. However you continuously post things that you know will agitate them. Pointsfix, something about CW.cc here or there that you know they don't care about or want to hear. This puts you at fault as you are the instigator.
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Everyone else is always talking about the pointsfix. It's fairly rare I actually start the debate. I did start the recent thread about the ladder, but that's something that was totally new. As for talking about CW, clearshot started that - he wanted to make the ladder look bad somehow, so he made up a bunch of ridiculous lies about my history on clanwars.cc. I just caught him out.
Well, yes, I suppose if someone tries that kind of character assassination against you and you catch him red-handed, you probably will agitate him.
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I never said anything specific about CW.cc. I just keep seeing people saying you talk about the points fix and CW.cc there. I don't know any of the situations you just said. I'm not getting involved in them.
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| kadoosh wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 12:10 |
I know nothing of this so I won't even bother getting involved.
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You kinda already did; "However you continuously post things that you know will agitate them. Pointsfix, something about CW.cc here or there that you know they don't care about or want to hear."
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Way to take a broad comment and try to make it look like I know what the fuck you are talking about when it comes to CW.cc or anything else you talk about on jelly. That was a very dishonest move on your part there and not appreciated.
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| kadoosh wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 12:10 |
As I said they will flame you there apparently for saying Hi. What makes you think the will read past title=Spoony and give 2 shits what you say? My best advise to you is stay away from there.
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Thanks for the advice, I think I'll take it.
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I hope for your mental sanity you do take it. It seems as though it's putting you under some unneeded stress.
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406399 is a reply to message #406397] |
Fri, 09 October 2009 20:02 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915
Registered: January 2006
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars)
Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
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| kadoosh wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 21:38 |
If the regulars hated me for what ever reason I would stay away from there. I'm not a drama hound. I don't go play places to see how many people I can piss off. If I know damn good and well that they hate me, and I join their server anyway and someone starts giving me shit, then Yes it IS my fault. I had the opportunity to avoid the situation and I did not. Skill level or not if you are Knowingly going into somewhere that you know you are going to be involved in some shit then yes you should stay away. If you go in then you are just as much at fault as the people giving you shit.
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"just as much at fault"?
Just as much? Really?
If you think: let these idiots attack me relentlessly for no reason, I'll just play the game - i.e. if you refuse to bullied into staying away - that makes you "just as much at fault"? You really, really think this?
| kadoosh wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 21:38 |
While that seems kind of funny It is a relevant comparison. You go into the Jelly forums and basically tell them the way they play via the point system is wrong and the point fix is right. This is you telling them that their choices are wrong. This is instigating something.
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At this point I would like you to link us to a specific example. (Nobody else do it for him, please.)
| kadoosh wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 21:38 |
You know they don't like it and you do it anyway. You bring it on yourself. Is it justified? Hell I don't know I don't visit Jelly's forums to see what they say in response, BUT if you continue to do it knowing they are going to react that way then yes you are at fault.
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I don't accept your logic. If I think something ought to be said I'll say it. I won't be bullied into silence. Perhaps you are more easily cowed. And I absolutely don't accept that the person who rises above the retards and simply expresses his opinion even though he'll get flamed for it is "just as much at fault" as the idiots who are flaming him for nothing worse than a disagreement of opinion. It seems incredibly stupid, and not only that, I appear to be the only person you're actually criticising, so perhaps you don't actually think the faults are equal?
| kadoosh wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 21:38 |
I never said anything specific about CW.cc. I just keep seeing people saying you talk about the points fix and CW.cc there. I don't know any of the situations you just said.
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No, evidently you don't, since you said I was the instigator.
| kadoosh wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 21:38 |
Way to take a broad comment and try to make it look like I know what the fuck you are talking about when it comes to CW.cc or anything else you talk about on jelly. That was a very dishonest move on your part there and not appreciated.
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Er... you're saying it's dishonest of me to assume you knew what you were talking about?
| kadoosh wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 21:38 |
I hope for your mental sanity you do take it. It seems as though it's putting you under some unneeded stress.
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On the contrary. Being the better man, and seeing one's opposition prove it for you more and more with every post, is not stressful at all.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406400 is a reply to message #406382] |
Fri, 09 October 2009 20:24 |
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liquidv2
Messages: 3407
Registered: February 2007
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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| Spoony wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 20:10 |
| Cunin wrote |
Well that was said even when pointsfix was used in NS, but years passed and the ladder is still rewarding point-whorers, so let us have some doubts about that rebalancing work.
Also renegade isn't a deathmatch game, I don't think that a ladder for this game can be made, a ladder that takes account of what players are doing instead of how many points they earned.
Ladders can still be used for other modes, but for AOW I don't think that a really balanced ladder could ever be made.
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I've been putting a great deal of thought into making the new ladder as good as it can be, we'll probably have some announcements about it fairly soon once we get a bit closer.
| kadoosh wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 12:10 |
Are you willing to admit you knowingly bring it on yourself?
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I will assert that I will say what I think even if a few retards are gonna freak out over it. I don't think the word "admit" is appropriate there... it's not an admission, it's an assertion.
| kadoosh wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 12:10 |
You post, or visit, a place you aren't welcome for what ever reason. People there generally don't like you, or the way you conduct your opinion pieces. You know for a damn fact your opinion is going to start a flame war there.
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None of this constitutes fault on my part.
Imagine you play on a particular server and the regulars hate you for nothing more than the fact you always win, and let's assume you don't play unfairly in any way; you don't cheat, you abide by the rules and you don't talk shit to anybody. But everyone despises you because they can't stand losing and it's what always happens to them when you join.
Should you be criticised for this? Just because it freaks them out, does this put you at fault?
| kadoosh wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 12:10 |
As my example you chose to ignore, You walk into a Bar and try to tell them their lifestyles are wrong then wonder why you are on the verge of being barred from there.
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Well, I don't think comparing the Jelly community to a gay bar is a particularly good analogy... a gay bar is probably friendlier.
| kadoosh wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 12:10 |
You put yourself at fault for putting yourself in the situation. If you need me to elaborate I will later.
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see above re: a renegade server
| kadoosh wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 12:10 |
I'm starting to feel like a broken record here. You Entered an establishment you are not welcome in. They haven't banned you so you are able to do so. However you continuously post things that you know will agitate them. Pointsfix, something about CW.cc here or there that you know they don't care about or want to hear. This puts you at fault as you are the instigator.
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Everyone else is always talking about the pointsfix. It's fairly rare I actually start the debate. I did start the recent thread about the ladder, but that's something that was totally new. As for talking about CW, clearshot started that - he wanted to make the ladder look bad somehow, so he made up a bunch of ridiculous lies about my history on clanwars.cc. I just caught him out.
Well, yes, I suppose if someone tries that kind of character assassination against you and you catch him red-handed, you probably will agitate him.
| kadoosh wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 12:10 |
I know nothing of this so I won't even bother getting involved.
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You kinda already did; "However you continuously post things that you know will agitate them. Pointsfix, something about CW.cc here or there that you know they don't care about or want to hear."
| kadoosh wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 12:10 |
If you don't want to see him lynched then why bring it up?
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The explanation is in the post you just quoted. I just find it very telling their lack of anger towards msgtpain... as prulez said, you complain about what you care about.
| kadoosh wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 12:10 |
As I said they will flame you there apparently for saying Hi. What makes you think the will read past title=Spoony and give 2 shits what you say? My best advise to you is stay away from there.
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Thanks for the advice, I think I'll take it.
| Roni wrote |
The truth is that you don't have better judgment than Jelly or his community. He is still running a successful community that you or I are not. I am sure you will come up with some bs story about how the community didn't want pointfix so they sabotaged your CC league. Please stfu with your rants about being a failure as a leader.
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Clanwars was doing OK when I left Renegade to look after a relative with cancer. If these priorities make me a "failure as a leader", I suppose I must accept that. But that's a low blow even by your standards, roni.
| Roni wrote |
You complain about having a pure server up on the top list but you fail to even pursuade Crimson(who happens to have a top listed name) to do this and she is part of TT. You can't even get that server owner on your own committee to agree with your opinions.
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What a hopeless argument. N00bstories has been there since before I even bought the game.
| Roni wrote |
He has lied over and over about what people are stating as opinions
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Must you further dismantle your already-shaky credibility on this forum with your false accusations?
| Roni wrote |
and he just can't fathome the thought that people actually enjoy the game the way it was designed and rolled out to the Renegade community.
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Um yes I can, that's why I support your right to play without pointsfix.
| Roni wrote |
No one is stopping Spoony from having a pure server. No one stopping Spoony from anything.
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Except for that little episode when I wanted to use the pointsfix in the clanwars league, and a small group of cheaters actively sabotaged it... and you supported them over me. You can say you support a community's choice of pointsfix or not, but you've already proven you don't.
| PapaElbo wrote |
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You can tell a sentence is gonna be bullshit when this is how it starts.
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Or, i could have just been tired at 4am and that is why the response didnt match the quote. Again you have invented a fiction in your head just to make me look stupid and posted that instead of responding to what i actually wrote.
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So once again it's my fault your posts don't make sense? Jeez.
| PapaElbo wrote |
Why should i have to go back and pull specific quotes out? I dont keep copies of everthing or links to specific posts. If anyone is even still bothered with reading this thread then they will know what i am referring to. I certainly shouldnt have to point it out to you Spoony.
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I didn't ask for links, just examples. Thankfully you're about to give them.
| PapaElbo wrote |
Random incidents - your clanwars baggage, mgstpain, your assertion that the jelly community are all bullies.
Seemingly unrelated issues - clanwars, TT patches, the pointsfix, pure servers, your new ladder vs the Jelly Community and Jelly's A00 nicks.
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ok.
clanwars? this could mean one of two things.
1. clearshot (jelly moderator) lying to the community again and again and again to try to make me look bad because this is the only way he could think of to criticise the ladder.
^^ since he brought this up, i fail to see why i'm at fault here. all i did was prove that every single word he said was a lie.
2. what happened when i wanted to use the pointsfix in clanwars. this is not irrelevant at all, because i mention it in reply to people saying "we just want to use the pointsfix in our community spoony, why cant you accept that?" to which the answer is: i do accept it, it's fine with me, but when i wanted to use the pointsfix in MY community and a bunch of cheaters sabotaged it, you were on their side instead of mine. That's not irrelevant, that's an incredibly damning rebuttal to someone else's bullshit.
msgtpain is irrelevant. yes, indeed... most of jelly thinks the same. nobody really minded what happened there, compared to the outrage at my having differing opinions on the pointsfix and whatnot
new ladder? is that irrelevant? we're trying to revamp the official ladder and i'm just telling people my ideas. obviously a lot of people cared about the ladder, otherwise they wouldn't have gotten so angry at it not being the way they wanted. to them, it's not irrelevant.
| PapaElbo wrote |
Drawing your own conclusions - see your original post for that one. It is not an objective assessment of the situation, it is a diatribe of false invention, one sided opinionation and conclusions based upon fiction stated as fact.
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if that were the case, one would think you wouldn't have such a hard time refuting it.
| PapaElbo wrote |
If you want to do it right, then get someone who is independant, get them to post the problem (if there even is one) without prejudice or favor and then discuss it properly - preferably in private with the other server owners but certainly in public if that is the preference.
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ah, the jelly community tries to think of another way to avoid answering the criticism. "get someone else to say it."
| PapaElbo wrote |
| Quote: |
Besides, plenty of the Jelly community do this to me all the time, they've done it several times in this thread, and they usually get caught lying in the attempt. You don't seem to mind that.
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So its an eye for an eye then Spoony? Nice responsible and mature attitude.
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no, because i don't accept that i'm doing it.
you said: spoony does X.
i said: no i'm not, but the jelly community are.
you then say: HAH! SO YOU'RE DOING IT OUT OF REVENGE!
me (very slowly): no, i'm not doing it at all, but your friends are and you don't seem to mind.
| PapaElbo wrote |
Plus a little invention again. How do you know what i mind or dont mind.
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I only see one person you're currently furious at.
| PapaElbo wrote |
| Quote: |
Oh, so you admit it's NOT justified then?
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Oh, so you admit you DO jump to conclusions then?
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Sidestepping the question yet again.
| PapaElbo wrote |
Let me go through it again. I said you bring it on yourself becasue you know the attitudes of most people at Jelly. You are intelligent enough to know what response you will receive whether it is on the pointsfix, about clanwar issues or just general chat or catching cheats. I didnt say it was justified. I also didnt say it was unjustified.
You provoke people to be extreme in their opinions (probably deliberately) becasue if they were not 100% absolutely sure, you would pick them apart. So, i believe, you reap what you sow. That is all.
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So in a nutshell your argument is: people treat you like shit even though you don't do anything wrong, but this still means it's your fault because you still post there knowing what a bunch of twats they are, no matter how mature and civilised your posts are by comparison?
Well, I suppose that does make a wild flailing kind of sense (though you really need to go out of your way to see it), but one would think there are far better targets for criticism here?
See my response to kadoosh re: renegade server.
| PapaElbo wrote |
If you come to a community and start a thread about something you know will cause problems then you are deliberately asking for trouble and therefore, you are by definition a disruptive influence to that community.
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So to take the most obvious example, would you rather I didn't tell them my plans for the ladder at all?
| PapaElbo wrote |
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Who is treating you with contempt and why is the level astonishing?
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Are you blind?
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No. Do you tend to over-exaggerate? Quite possibly! Also, please keep this greivance in perspective. When you say "the Jelly Community" you probably mean the handful of clanwars players who frequent the jelly servers. Not the ENTIRE community.
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I see various people coming in here and trying to respond to your claims regarding the Jelly community. If you feel like you are being treated with contempt then i would refer you to the second part of the above quote. Why would this be astonishing considering the magnitude of what you are proposing to do to us?
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I wasn't talking about this forum, I was talking about the jelly forum. As for trying to excuse it by this current topic, perhaps you can then explain the fact that it's been happening for a year or more.
| PapaElbo wrote |
| Quote: |
No, I didn't say I would particularly enjoy a lynch-mob aimed at msgtpain.
I said I'm rather surprised at the Jelly community's apparently total indifference to a moderator cheating while being a moderator, and continually lying to everyone to cover himself while doing so. But when they see someone with different opinions on the pointsfix, or someone daring to speak out about their control of the gamelistings, grab a stick and get in line, eh?
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So, you are surprised at the lack of a lynch-mob aimed at msgtpain? Nice mature and responsible attitude.
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You turned that post - a very telling statement about the true priorities of the Jelly community - into an argument against me?
I almost feel like commending you on the extraordinary amount of logic you must've had to suppress to do that.
| PapaElbo wrote |
You cant compare a reaction to say a mod who was caught cheating to a mod who has just advocated the forced removal of our server's nicks for the benefit of this mods "other" community of which he is also a senior member.
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So let's ignore all posts that were made after I started this topic and just focus on the ones before it. It's not like this thread turned the Jelly community from courteous towards me into frothing lunatics. The mouths have been foaming for some time.
| PapaElbo wrote |
I became aware of you Spoony when i first came to Jelly and admired your level of commitment to the job and how you would calmly and objectively put your point across in each case. But, lately you have been losing it and in this thread particularly your calm objective attitude has gone completely out the window with the first post.
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No, it hasn't. My method of argument has not changed in the slightest.
| PapaElbo wrote |
And here you are, stabbing our community in the back
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No? Just criticising the a00 monopoly.
| PapaElbo wrote |
I just think if you had been more objective and had not made up your own conclusions in your original post, then we wouldnt be here 13 pages later talking more about you rather than your issues.
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It was as objective as any other post of mine, including the ones you "admired". Since you now feel you're on the receiving end and this is the only thing that's changed, let's not have you telling me to be objective again, eh?
| PapaElbo wrote |
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That's not the impression I get.
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Well, it is the impression i get. Its not really that hard to understand.
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Roni can't be that bright, then.
| PapaElbo wrote |
| Quote: |
Read what I said to Roni. He couldn't think of a response and was too humiliated to try... see if you can do better.
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I have no clue what you mean by this? Is it this?
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It's what i said to Roni about what happened when I decided to use the pointsfix. it was sabotaged by a group of cheaters through a campaign of lies, manipulation and rigged polls. Roni supported the saboteurs instead of the admin. He was not alone in this view; quite a few others did too.
People say they want each community to have a choice, pointsfix or no. But when people support the cheaters who subvert a community's decision, they instantly destroy their own credibility to say this.
| PapaElbo wrote |
| Quote: |
Has it ever occurred to you that there isn't actually anything wrong with me disagreeing with you on something?
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Under normal circumstances, there wouldnt be anything wrong with you disagreeing with me or anyone else for that matter.
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Whoops. What a crippling blow to your earlier argument.
| PapaElbo wrote |
| Quote: |
I personally couldn't care less about how Jelly servers are run
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Untrue. Jelly is supposedly irresponsible with their servers and their "monopoly" must be halted!! No?
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No, because my arguments to support the position I expressed in this thread don't need to include Jelly servers being run poorly.
| PapaElbo wrote |
| Quote: |
or even how the forums were run (it really doesn't bother me that the community's full of bullies who treat people like shit when you've done nothing wrong to them).
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Untrue. Gross exaggeration. One or two idiots does not consitute a community of bullies.
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I'm starting to think you have a huge blindspot. Go look at the Jelly forums.
| PapaElbo wrote |
| Quote: |
I only care about their strangehold on the game listings and their fanatical inability to even maturely debate the issue at all.
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I think everyone has a fanatical inability to debate with you Spoony. Did i not try to maturely debate with you?
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Since you used the word "try", I suppose I have to say yes. To the best of your abilities, I've no doubt.
| PapaElbo wrote |
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"I only care about your threats to steal Jelly's server nicks for your own purposes"
Untrue.
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How so? Please enlighten me on what i care about.
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No, I said it was untrue that I threatened to steal Jelly's server nicks for my own purposes. That's a sentence which contains almost as many errors as it does actual words, which is almost praiseworthy in its limited way.
| PapaElbo wrote |
"and the bad mouthing of my community on these forums"
Not only untrue but grossly hypocritical.
How so? Please enlighten me on what i care about.
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Once again, the thing I said was untrue was "the bad mouthing of my community", not "you care about this".
| PapaElbo wrote |
The Jelly Community, in your view, holds too much "power".
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Yes.
| PapaElbo wrote |
They have committed no crime to justify your criticism of this "power".
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Read what you just said.
A crime is not necessary to justify criticism of power. It is legitimate to say "one single community shouldn't have this authority" even if they aren't abusing it.
| PapaElbo wrote |
You just think that this "power" would be better of in the hands of the group you represent. TT.
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Yes, and the evidence supports it.
Once again... when TT is criticised about the pointsfix, we went to extraordinary lengths to accommodate different viewpoints, and eventually gave the community everything they wanted.
When Jelly is criticised about their game listing monopoly, they say: fuck off, we don't have to explain ourselves to you.
This alone says a great deal about who's in a better position to handle this power.
| PapaElbo wrote |
The server nicks were farily obtained through the established procedure of the time.
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Frankly, I don't believe the established procedure of the time bore the Renegade game listings in mind.
| PapaElbo wrote |
You have a problem with a small number of the community - mostly clanwars or anti pointsfix people who you provoke specifically to create disruption within the community. That is neither responsible nor mature.
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I don't provoke anybody specifically. I will certainly defend myself when I'm attacked, though, as I continually have been at Jelly for a year or so.
| PapaElbo wrote |
You also forgot:
3. you could be doing this because you want to promote your own style of gameplay, have your own servers with the pointsfix at the top of the listings.
4. you could be doing this becasue you are pissed at Jelly or the community at large and want some kind of revenge.
5. you could be doing this becasue you want TT to have a more visible role in the community considering the lack of updates over the last two years.
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That's right. I certainly could have mentioned these other false accusations the Jelly community made as an excuse for not facing the actual criticism.
| PapaElbo wrote |
| Quote: |
TT considers itself answerable to the community. We proved that with the pointsfix. Jelly has made no secret at all of the fact they DON'T consider themselves answerable to the community.
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Well, maybe because Jelly are a member OF the community so with your logic, TT should be answerable to Jelly. No?
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Um, we actually DID prove we are answerable to the wider community, including jelly. jelly's proven they don't consider themselves answerable to anybody. i don't think you're acknowledging this extremely important point.
| PapaElbo wrote |
TT is an organisation in charge of XWIS, the TT patch and the community forums and probably a ton of other stuff i have no idea about. Since TT is a merger of several teams, projects and companies then sure, ill accept TT as the impartial community leader. The second they start up their own servers, then they become competitors and therefore no longer impartial.
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Ah, right, so impartiality is the issue. Therefore the names are better in the hands of the Jelly servers, who use as many as they like and give them out based on their own personal preferences.
Sigh...
| PapaElbo wrote |
| Quote: |
Precisely because we're better than the Jelly community.
Opinion is not fact and "better" is a subjective term. Better how?
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see above re: far better track record in terms of accountability, approachability, maturity, unbias...
| PapaElbo wrote |
Oh, this arrogance is really annoying me. You claimed responsibility over something that required none for your own personal gain.
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If this is your honest viewpoint, go back to the very start of this thread and start again.
| PapaElbo wrote |
You stired up tensions in the Jelly Community right before coming here, possibly deliberately.
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Is this another case of "you post there where you know the community's full of twats who'll flame you even though you do nothing wrong, which in fact means you're doing something wrong by saying anything at all no matter how civilised"?
| PapaElbo wrote |
You have proven nothing except how we can expect TT to deal with the community in future.
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Indeed.
After it's been made perfectly apparent how utterly unqualified Jelly is to handle this power, and how much better TT would be, we still probably aren't going to act upon it even though we seem to have the power to do so.
For the second time in a row, I'm the "better man". And yes, you can continue to expect this level of reasonableness and maturity from me in the future, no matter how contemptibly your community treats me.
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i find it hard to believe that the only people in the entire world that dislike spoony are people from the jelly community
in fact i don't believe it
and another thing i don't believe is that people only dislike spoony because he likes the pointmod
i believe that had every single post speaking out against spoony on the jelly forums been deleted that he would have been displeased, and probably would have tried harder to get a reaction out of people, because that's how he does things
then he posts and posts and just keeps posting until the average person cannot post anymore, but spoony has proven he is not the average person
take a look at the response he typed up in about 5 minutes above and tell me the picture below does not describe him one hundred percent
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Attachment: Debunked.PNG
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406401 is a reply to message #406399] |
Fri, 09 October 2009 20:33 |
kadoosh
Messages: 90
Registered: April 2004
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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| Spoony wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 23:02 |
| kadoosh wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 21:38 |
If the regulars hated me for what ever reason I would stay away from there. I'm not a drama hound. I don't go play places to see how many people I can piss off. If I know damn good and well that they hate me, and I join their server anyway and someone starts giving me shit, then Yes it IS my fault. I had the opportunity to avoid the situation and I did not. Skill level or not if you are Knowingly going into somewhere that you know you are going to be involved in some shit then yes you should stay away. If you go in then you are just as much at fault as the people giving you shit.
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"just as much at fault"?
Just as much? Really?
If you think: let these idiots attack me relentlessly for no reason, I'll just play the game - i.e. if you refuse to bullied into staying away - that makes you "just as much at fault"? You really, really think this?
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would you be flamed if you didn't go to a place you know they hated you?
| Quote: |
| kadoosh wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 21:38 |
While that seems kind of funny It is a relevant comparison. You go into the Jelly forums and basically tell them the way they play via the point system is wrong and the point fix is right. This is you telling them that their choices are wrong. This is instigating something.
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At this point I would like you to link us to a specific example. (Nobody else do it for him, please.)
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you want me to go register at jelly so I can find you links? Do you post things on the points fix there? Do these things state that playing without the points fix is wrong? It's quite simple as I've see the threads in n00bstories from you debating I can only assume they are somewhat close, although probably more heated. To answer your request No I will not go register at Jelly so I can browse through topics I don't care about.
| Quote: |
| kadoosh wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 21:38 |
You know they don't like it and you do it anyway. You bring it on yourself. Is it justified? Hell I don't know I don't visit Jelly's forums to see what they say in response, BUT if you continue to do it knowing they are going to react that way then yes you are at fault.
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I don't accept your logic. If I think something ought to be said I'll say it. I won't be bullied into silence. Perhaps you are more easily cowed. And I absolutely don't accept that the person who rises above the retards and simply expresses his opinion even though he'll get flamed for it is "just as much at fault" as the idiots who are flaming him for nothing worse than a disagreement of opinion. It seems incredibly stupid, and not only that, I appear to be the only person you're actually criticising, so perhaps you don't actually think the faults are equal?
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If they are giving you shit then yes I would criticize them. I don't know what they are saying as I have stated in what you just quoted there, "I DON'T GO TO JELLY". If they are giving you shit then yeah it's probably not deserved. But it is happening and you have the power to make it stop. If you continue to go there then yes you are just as much at fault for putting yourself in the position.
| Quote: |
| kadoosh wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 21:38 |
I never said anything specific about CW.cc. I just keep seeing people saying you talk about the points fix and CW.cc there. I don't know any of the situations you just said.
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No, evidently you don't, since you said I was the instigator.
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Rinse repeat. You want to do this again? If you post in a topic involving anything they will flame you. If you post about the pointsfix they will flame you. If you post about CW.cc they will flame you. If you post about cats fucking on your fire escape they will flame you. Get it. I'm not addressing anything specific. You know damn well if you post a flame is coming. As soon as you post it, you instigated it on yourself. If you can't see that then get help.
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| kadoosh wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 21:38 |
Way to take a broad comment and try to make it look like I know what the fuck you are talking about when it comes to CW.cc or anything else you talk about on jelly. That was a very dishonest move on your part there and not appreciated.
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Er... you're saying it's dishonest of me to assume you knew what you were talking about?
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Even after saying I don't know anything about CW.cc You assume I know what's going on with CW.cc.... nice logic there
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| kadoosh wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 21:38 |
I hope for your mental sanity you do take it. It seems as though it's putting you under some unneeded stress.
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On the contrary. Being the better man, and seeing one's opposition prove it for you more and more with every post, is not stressful at all.
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Do what ever you want I'm done with you. It's pointless to try to logically have a discussion with someone who is only trying to play the victim.
[Updated on: Fri, 09 October 2009 20:40] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406412 is a reply to message #406401] |
Fri, 09 October 2009 22:07 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915
Registered: January 2006
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars)
Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
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| liquidv2 wrote |
i find it hard to believe that the only people in the entire world that dislike spoony are people from the jelly community
in fact i don't believe it
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I didn't say that was the case, simply pointed out that the jelly community is obviously what we're talking about here.
| liquidv2 wrote |
and another thing i don't believe is that people only dislike spoony because he likes the pointmod
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I don't believe that either; bitterness at losing arguments is certainly a big factor too, jealousy of eloquence, etc. If you notice, quite a few people who keep saying LOL ESSAY as if that's an insult often try using the same debate techniques as me when they think they can.
| liquidv2 wrote |
i believe that had every single post speaking out against spoony on the jelly forums been deleted that he would have been displeased
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I certainly would have been displeased, if only because if you have something to say to me or about me I think you should be free to just so long as I'm allowed an equal platform to respond.
| liquidv2 wrote |
and probably would have tried harder to get a reaction out of people, because that's how he does things
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Tried harder? Excuse me, but I can "get a reaction" out of the Jelly community simply by saying "actually no I don't cheat" in response to two moderators publicly and seriously claiming that I did (or two and a quarter if you count joetorp as well). It is not necessary to try to get a reaction from your community and I actually don't think I ever have.
| liquidv2 wrote |
then he posts and posts and just keeps posting until the average person cannot post anymore, but spoony has proven he is not the average person
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I actually don't respond at all to many of the flames against me on jelly... is that consistent with your theory?
| kadoosh wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 22:33 |
| Spoony wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 23:02 |
"just as much at fault"?
Just as much? Really?
If you think: let these idiots attack me relentlessly for no reason, I'll just play the game - i.e. if you refuse to bullied into staying away - that makes you "just as much at fault"? You really, really think this?
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would you be flamed if you didn't go to a place you know they hated you?
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That's not what I asked. It seems to me an extremely odd thing to say. "If you refuse to be bullied into silence, if you speak your mind in spite of the idiots who will flame you no matter what you say, you're as bad as they are"... or is that an unfair assessment?
| kadoosh wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 22:33 |
you want me to go register at jelly so I can find you links? Do you post things on the points fix there? Do these things state that playing without the points fix is wrong? It's quite simple as I've see the threads in n00bstories from you debating I can only assume they are somewhat close, although probably more heated. To answer your request No I will not go register at Jelly so I can browse through topics I don't care about.
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After all your previous assertions you now admit you've never even seen any of these threads on jelly at all? Oh dear. It is true that someone might have guessed that, of course.
| kadoosh wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 22:33 |
If they are giving you shit then yes I would criticize them. I don't know what they are saying as I have stated in what you just quoted there, "I DON'T GO TO JELLY". If they are giving you shit then yeah it's probably not deserved. But it is happening and you have the power to make it stop. If you continue to go there then yes you are just as much at fault for putting yourself in the position.
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Ah, I believe that answers my question; you do think the two positions are equal. The person who tries to bully someone into silence despite them doing nothing wrong, and the person who refuses to be cowed into submission by it. No moral distinction between the two, in your mind.
| kadoosh wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 22:33 |
| Quote: |
| kadoosh wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 21:38 |
Way to take a broad comment and try to make it look like I know what the fuck you are talking about when it comes to CW.cc or anything else you talk about on jelly. That was a very dishonest move on your part there and not appreciated.
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Er... you're saying it's dishonest of me to assume you knew what you were talking about?
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Even after saying I don't know anything about CW.cc You assume I know what's going on with CW.cc.... nice logic there
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Do you think you're ahead at this point?
you say... you're the instigator because blahblahblah and you give clanwars.cc as an example. i point out that actually no, i was defending myself against a huge list of made-up-on-the-spot false accusations by a jelly moderator who simply wanted to make the ladder look bad. and you say: "it's dishonest of you to assume i knew what the fuck i was talking about"
dishonest? hardly... perhaps overly generous.
| kadoosh wrote on Fri, 09 October 2009 22:33 |
Do what ever you want I'm done with you. It's pointless to try to logically have a discussion with someone who is only trying to play the victim.
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sorry, were you trying to use logic? i'm finding it rather difficult to tell. were you trying to be logical when you said the person who tries to bully someone into submission is morally equal to the person who won't be cowed by it? were you trying to be logical when you said it was dishonest of me to assume that you actually knew what you were talking about?
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
[Updated on: Fri, 09 October 2009 22:11] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406417 is a reply to message #406412] |
Fri, 09 October 2009 22:34 |
Cunin
Messages: 87
Registered: April 2007
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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I can understand everything, but multi-quote-replying to a lolpic... XD
Oh and I can't see where liquid said he's universally loathed, he just pointed out how many more people may hate him, which can't be wrong because there may always be other people hating someone, other than the ones that we know about.
[Updated on: Fri, 09 October 2009 22:39] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The Pointsfix and the Game Listings [message #406421 is a reply to message #405549] |
Fri, 09 October 2009 22:48 |
rcmorr09
Messages: 73
Registered: June 2003
Karma: 0
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Everyone flaming spoony needs to quit right NOW! The man has done nothing but express his opinions on the A000 names and has backed it up with flawless debate. How can any of you NUBS not agree with Spoony after he has clearly proven EVERYONE to be incorrect. Clearly 95% of you idiots have some sort of mental disorder since you can't understand spoonys easy to read but rather lengthy posts. Spoony you're a man among men, you keep arguing and debating your point even when the vast majority disagrees with you. I'm thankful you don't fold under opposition from every direction where ever you go! It takes a special person to fight a battle alone and not care what anyone thinks of you. God Bless you sir!
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