Home » Tiberian Technologies / Blackhand Studios » Tiberian Technologies Forum » Points fix debate number 5.598
| Re: Points fix debate number 5.598 [message #404859 is a reply to message #404614] |
Thu, 01 October 2009 16:14   |
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Crimson
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We are most likely going to penalize but not remove servers from participating in the official ladder for keeping the bugged points system. In fact, there are other server settings that will be included in this new system as well.
I'm the bawss.
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| Re: Points fix debate number 5.598 [message #404881 is a reply to message #404614] |
Thu, 01 October 2009 19:16 |
Tildeth
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As long as the points"fix" isn't mandatory, I'm completely fine with this.
If it becomes mandatory, I'll still play; however, I can guarantee we will lose a LARGE amount of players...
It is quite evident that the majority of the people do not want the pointfix, judging by the amount of people replying to spoony's posts on the Jelly forums.
I know that this point does not make it invalid to implement the pointfix, I'm just saying it is quite obvious that the majority of the people do not want it to be mandatory.
Renedead incoming
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| Re: Points fix debate number 5.598 [message #404884 is a reply to message #404881] |
Thu, 01 October 2009 19:24 |
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BLûεl4βêL
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| Tildeth wrote on Thu, 01 October 2009 21:16 |
it is quite obvious that the majority of the people do not want it to be mandatory.
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yea i agree
...bow to your #1 ranked warrior
| Quote: |
by Whiskey @ clanwars.cc
Legend has it, that long long ago before the tiberum wars, Havoc and Sakura conceived a love child in the backseat of a GDI Hum-vee. 9 months later, IsItInYou popped out and headshot them both, then nuked their refinery.
how did the baby get a gun?! rgGh probably
so the baby spectated both his parents and drove home from the C&C_Hospital.mix in the humvee parked outside?!
3 wisemen came bearing gifts: credits, tiberium, and murr, whatever the FUCK that is. IsItInYou was nailed to the obelisk, but respawned 3 days later and performed miracles.
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| Re: Points fix debate number 5.598 [message #404893 is a reply to message #404889] |
Thu, 01 October 2009 21:29 |
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Spoony
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no communists either, i.e. saying "the people" get to decide what goes on someone else's project... lost count of the number of times the anti-pointsfix crowd has been absolutely convinced they're entitled to that. (clanwars league is a perfect example)
it's really simple tbh. TT made the decision ages ago. the pointsfix should replace the current system as the DEFAULT points system. and it ought to have special place on the official ladder. but, servers can still have the option to use the pointsbug.
with the exception of jonwil (who, it seems, was simply unaware of what TT decided), everyone in TT thinks this choice is fine.
but here's the thing. PLENTY of people on the anti-pointsfix crowd have demonstrated that they actually OPPOSE this choice. including you, tildeth. if you couldn't handle the fact that i wanted to use the pointsfix in the clanwars league, if you support the people who used the absolutely despicable tactics they did use to try to subvert the owner's wishes INSTEAD of supporting my decisions... you have absolutely ZERO credibility talking about individual choice in this matter. Z-E-R-O. by doing this, you proved you OPPOSE the whole idea of each community's individual choice.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
[Updated on: Thu, 01 October 2009 21:33] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Points fix debate number 5.598 [message #404898 is a reply to message #404893] |
Thu, 01 October 2009 21:54 |
Tildeth
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| Spoony wrote on Thu, 01 October 2009 23:29 |
no communists either, i.e. saying "the people" get to decide what goes on someone else's project... lost count of the number of times the anti-pointsfix crowd has been absolutely convinced they're entitled to that. (clanwars league is a perfect example)
it's really simple tbh. TT made the decision ages ago. the pointsfix should replace the current system as the DEFAULT points system. and it ought to have special place on the official ladder. but, servers can still have the option to use the pointsbug.
with the exception of jonwil (who, it seems, was simply unaware of what TT decided), everyone in TT thinks this choice is fine.
but here's the thing. PLENTY of people on the anti-pointsfix crowd have demonstrated that they actually OPPOSE this choice. including you, tildeth. if you couldn't handle the fact that i wanted to use the pointsfix in the clanwars league, if you support the people who used the absolutely despicable tactics they did use to try to subvert the owner's wishes INSTEAD of supporting my decisions... you have absolutely ZERO credibility talking about individual choice in this matter. Z-E-R-O. by doing this, you proved you OPPOSE the whole idea of each community's individual choice.
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What are you chatting about now? Getting angry because you know a poll will reveal the truth about what people think about this point"fix"?
It wasn't me who rejected the pointfix in clanwars.cc, it was the LEAGUE. Didn't you notice the C4U servers completely die when it was used there? Didn't you notice the same thing at Jelly (as tellsson pointed out earlier)?
Or are you still too thick-headed to admit to it?
Like I said earlier, I will still play in the server if it is running pointfix; I'm simply pointing out the consequenses of this idea.
Don't believe me? Make the poll then big guy, unless you're completely horrified of seeing the results staggering against you...Which I believe to be the case after your reply to my previous post.
[Updated on: Thu, 01 October 2009 21:58] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Points fix debate number 5.598 [message #404899 is a reply to message #404894] |
Thu, 01 October 2009 22:04 |
Tildeth
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| SoQRadio wrote on Thu, 01 October 2009 23:33 |
I think everyone can agree that servers should have an option in regards to whether or not they want to implement the pointsfix.
Can we move on now please instead of rehashing old arguments?
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Agreed, I'm simply suggesting a poll to prove to people the overwhelming amount of players who are "anti-pointfix". Clearly spoony is upset by the idea of revealing these numbers.
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| Re: Points fix debate number 5.598 [message #404900 is a reply to message #404898] |
Thu, 01 October 2009 22:30 |
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Spoony
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| Tildeth wrote on Thu, 01 October 2009 23:54 |
What are you chatting about now? Getting angry because you know a poll will reveal the truth about what people think about this point"fix"?
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No, this seems like yet another example of you completely failing to read what I'm saying, just like the thread on jelly.
| Tildeth wrote on Thu, 01 October 2009 23:54 |
It wasn't me who rejected the pointfix in clanwars.cc, it was the LEAGUE. Didn't you notice the C4U servers completely die when it was used there?
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here we are.
an individual league, clanwars.cc chose to use the pointsfix. i was the admin. this means i get to choose this. what did people do? totally disregarded the admin's choice. character assassination. endlessly lied about the situation to influence opinion, and most crucially, they LIED to the server hosts to get it removed. they even lied about the situation much later on other forums about whether it was even implemented at all.
now, who do you support in this situation? you've made it clear already, but i'll spell out the situation so everyone sees it for what it is.
do you support -a- the rightfully appointed renadmin+league owner, who decided that the pointsfix was the right thing for the league?
or -b- do you support the DESPICABLE tactics the anti-pointsfix crowd used at clanwars, completely subverting the admin's wishes, and continually lying to get what they wanted?
it's clearly -b- in your case, because you've tried to use the appalling situation at clanwars as an argument AGAINST the pointsfix - which shows you have no respect for honesty, or the authority of the only person who could ever be bothered hosting a clan league for pricks like you, or the way any particular community chooses to make its decisions.
if you want a pointsbug league, what's ever stopped you hosting one? YOU, tildeth? don't dodge this question, answer it: why didn't YOU host a clan league with the pointsbug? i did, even though i like the pointsfix better. i'm not the one with any explaining to do here.
so there you have it. for all i care, n00bstories can make their choice, pointsfix or not. i don't care what they choose, i don't care how they choose it - whether by a vote or by admin discussion or by crimson flipping a coin. it's not my business. jelly can make their choice. black-cell can make their choice. etc etc etc. i support these individual choices.
YOU DO NOT! you proved this when you take the side of the people who used such disgusting tactics at clanwars, instead of me. you continue to prove this by holding to this position.
| Tildeth wrote on Thu, 01 October 2009 23:54 |
Didn't you notice the same thing at Jelly (as tellsson pointed out earlier)?
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yes, but I didn't notice it at n00bstories. clearly the pointsfix isn't the only factor... perhaps jelly moderators and admins treating players like absolute shit for no reason might have something to do with it too? just look at the way they treat me, despite the fact i've done absolutely nothing wrong.
| Tildeth wrote on Thu, 01 October 2009 23:54 |
Don't believe me? Make the poll then big guy, unless you're completely horrified of seeing the results staggering against you...Which I believe to be the case after your reply to my previous post.
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uh, what poll? whether there should be a choice? i've said ad nauseum that I support the idea that there should be, even if you don't. or simply a head count of how many people don't like the pointsfix? i don't care, we're giving people a choice to host servers without it. there's no problem in my eyes, unless jelly continues to keep the current stranglehold on the game listings so no new servers can possibly flourish.
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Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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[Updated on: Thu, 01 October 2009 22:33] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Points fix debate number 5.598 [message #404901 is a reply to message #404614] |
Thu, 01 October 2009 22:43 |
Tildeth
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Haha, yet again, you completely misunderstand (or choose to misunderstand, in this case) where I'm coming from.
I already told you that I don't care whether or not there is pointfix, and I already AGREED to letting the servers have the options of running it or not (you dodged that post).
What I'm asking for is a simple poll to prove to everyone how many people disprove of the pointfix. Your rene-essays regarding me being a "dishonest prick" only prove even furthur your fear of this idea, you get more and more angry every time I ask for the poll haha, it's cute.
You say you "don't care" about how many people don't like pointfix. If that's true, why not make a poll? OH, thats right, you DO care, because you're terrified of the idea of seeing a extremely staggered poll favouring the "anti-pointfix".
Edit: You say "YOU DO NOT SUPPORT SERVERS USING POINTFIX" - read the post that you dodged, genius. Quit saying I'm "holding a position". Yes, we all know I'm anti-pointfix, but all I've suggested is a poll to show statistics, I DID NOT say that the poll would determine whether or not the the pointfix would be implemented; it's that suggestion that has set you off into your rene-essay rage in trying to make me look bad while completely dodging the poll (for OBVIOUS reasons).
[Updated on: Thu, 01 October 2009 22:53] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Points fix debate number 5.598 [message #404903 is a reply to message #404901] |
Thu, 01 October 2009 22:54 |
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Spoony
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| Tildeth wrote on Fri, 02 October 2009 06:43 |
I already told you that I don't care whether or not there is pointfix, and I already AGREED to letting the servers have the options of running it or not (you dodged that post).
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Sure you SAY you agree to it, but you've already proven that you don't mean it. Either repudiate everything you've said about the clanwars situation (which means condemn the absolutely despicable tactics of people like simpee and clearshot and mikey, and supporting me), or admit your real feelings about this subject. Put up or shut up.
You were uncharacteristically honest at one point in the thread on jelly when you said you wanted the TT ladder to be less fair. Well, if you think that, you think that. Just be honest, eh? Don't say you approve of each community choosing for itself when your track record proves the absolute opposite.
You'd rather side with the cheaters and pointpushers and the compulsive liars who totally disregard and try to subvert the admin's decisions, than side with the only person who could ever be bothered hosting a clan ladder for ungrateful mean ladys like you.
It's not often someone manages to subtract every last shred of credibility from their own statements. Still, it happens... look at the astonishing low clearshot sank to recently.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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| Re: Points fix debate number 5.598 [message #404905 is a reply to message #404903] |
Thu, 01 October 2009 22:58 |
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Spoony
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I can see you're gonna carry on dodging the clanwars situation, since it utterly destroys every gram of credibility you have in this entire debate.
Well, you want a poll? Go ahead and start a petition if you like, so you can see who's replying and what they say. See if you can get a majority of players on Renegade.
That's thousands, by the way. TT ladder says nearly 10,000 unique names. Sure some of these are duplicate names, let's assume 5,000 recent players (that seems quite a generous guess to you). See if you can get 1000 people to say they don't like the pointsfix, that would be one in five.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: Points fix debate number 5.598 [message #404906 is a reply to message #404614] |
Thu, 01 October 2009 22:59 |
Tildeth
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haha, well actually, I agree to it because I'm confident in my playing abilities with or without pointfix. I'm just saying that it's going to affect the number of players in the servers running the fix, hence, my distaste for it. What about that don't you understand? Evidently everything, because every time I try and make you aware of these facts you go off raging about how unethical the entire clanwars league was for jumping out of their tank at the last second LOL.
Jelly community members, moderators, and admins dont give you shit for "no reason", it just registers like that in your head because you always think you're always right.
And don't worry, I made the poll.
edit: in regard to the post above, let's think more the amount of people who actively post on forums, because everybody knows that all "5000" players don't post on forums LOL you really aren't as smart as you make yourself out to be if you think they do. night night spoony poo, I'll reply to your next essay tomorrow.
[Updated on: Thu, 01 October 2009 23:10] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Points fix debate number 5.598 [message #404909 is a reply to message #404906] |
Thu, 01 October 2009 23:48 |
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Wiener
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| Tildeth wrote on Fri, 02 October 2009 00:59 |
edit: in regard to the post above, let's think more the amount of people who actively post on forums, because everybody knows that all "5000" players don't post on forums
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renforums polls are not quite representative for the community in total. Its active members consists of representatives of clans/communities and a whole lot of players who are not fixed clan/community members.
Further, as EWD pointed, a lot of "non regular" players wouldn't even notice whether they play on a pointfix or bugged server. (If I have an occasional game of BF or anything I would never notice a change it points  )
The only representative vote is a poll among the clan/community -leaders and major server owners. They feel responsible for their members and their public players. They would not vote for something which wouldnt be good for their server/clan/community.
AFAIK this poll took place already and the majority agreed on the need of this pointfix.
w w w. T h e K O S s 2. o r g
[Updated on: Thu, 01 October 2009 23:49] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Points fix debate number 5.598 [message #404915 is a reply to message #404614] |
Fri, 02 October 2009 00:06 |
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Goztow
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The poll already happened and the fact many of the people posting here now don't remember it, proves that polls are never really representative.
The poll ended in a perfect 50/50 with a high amount of votes and also a sudden inflow of new people who never made a single post, following the posts on some community's forums to come and register here to vote con points fix, without even argumenting why.
That's how representative polls are on renegade forums...
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: Points fix debate number 5.598 [message #404925 is a reply to message #404924] |
Fri, 02 October 2009 01:21 |
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Goztow
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| tellsson wrote on Fri, 02 October 2009 10:10 |
| Goztow wrote on Fri, 02 October 2009 09:06 |
[size=6]
The poll ended in a perfect 50/50 with a high amount of votes and also a sudden inflow of new people who never made a single post, following the posts on some community's forums to come and register here to vote con points fix, without even argumenting why.
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erm.. i`m sure there was pro pointmod guys also who did the same shit.
greetz telly ^^
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Maybe, but it wasn't done on a public subforum of a major Renegade community then, as I would've been pointed towards this as well in that case. I'm just trying to indicate how good polls on this kind of subjects work around here...
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: Points fix debate number 5.598 [message #404928 is a reply to message #404861] |
Fri, 02 October 2009 01:32 |
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EvilWhiteDragon
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| liquidv2 wrote on Fri, 02 October 2009 01:39 |
| SoQRadio wrote on Thu, 01 October 2009 18:13 |
I dont know if pointsfix fixes this, but if people have more incentive to help their team, that seems like a good thing imo.
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it sounds like you have not played much with the pointmod, if at all
the thought kind of scares me; i know it like the back of my hand because i've played with it extensively and it's not hard to grasp, but a lot of people in support of it have probably not played with it much (at least not as much as i have)
i like to think that it will make players work together better, but there's always the chance that it won't and could actually drive players away at a time when losing players is no longer an option; the game is too old to start gaining new players
i'd hate to see renegade die sooner than it has to for any reason, and if i didn't care i wouldn't say anything at all
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I dare to say that I have played MUCH more WITH pointfix than you. It has been runnning on the BlackIntel and TheKOSs2 servers for much longer than it has been released to certain communities.
I must also say that if you actually try to harm the enemy, the pointfix will be your friend. If you prefer to keep your K/D high then yes, pointfix sucks.
Also, what you're doing (all of you ANTIpointfix ppl) is separating the community. This could cause EA not to support this patch. That will mean that people that care will have TT patch, but all the newbies (who would probably better off with TT patch would be stuck in sucky servers without TT patch.
BlackIntel admin/founder/PR dude (not a coder)
Please visit http://www.blackintel.org/
| V, V for Vendetta |
People should not be afraid of their governments.
Governments should be afraid of their people.
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| Re: Points fix debate number 5.598 [message #404929 is a reply to message #404614] |
Fri, 02 October 2009 01:46 |
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Goztow
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Goztoe |
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To be honest, i see this turning into a, unneeded flame war. I think Telsson's experience is very worthy in this discussion. It shows that servers aiming for casual players may need to find an alternative for the points bug to provide people with enough money quickly to keep them interested, if they choose to apply the points fix. There's 100s of ways of doing this and there's even already a topic about this.
This topic will be locked now, nothing new will come up and it'll only end up with frustration at both sides.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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