Home » Tiberian Technologies / Blackhand Studios » Tiberian Technologies Forum » Fixing... Points?
| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #349100 is a reply to message #346858] |
Wed, 03 September 2008 03:45   |
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Crimson
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If the points fix evenly affected both teams, it wouldn't be as important to fix. It affects each team differently.
I'm the bawss.
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #349106 is a reply to message #349101] |
Wed, 03 September 2008 06:40 |
w0dka
Messages: 181
Registered: March 2006
Location: Leipzig, Germany
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| T0RN wrote on Wed, 03 September 2008 05:45 |
| Crimson wrote on Mon, 01 September 2008 18:16 |
We have weapon drop on n00bstories and that is not the case. Yeah, sometimes it is... but it depends on the random distribution of n00bs.
I have a feeling our days of weapon drop are numbered because I understand why we can't have it if we want to be on the new ladder.
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Best post I've read in a looong time.
Next,get rid of starting creds all together and I'll be in reneheaven!
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THIS would be my new standartserver 
Thanks.
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #349108 is a reply to message #349105] |
Wed, 03 September 2008 07:07 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9727
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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| Surth wrote on Wed, 03 September 2008 15:06 |
Lol, I didnt think you'd actually be serious Goztow because its absolutely obvious...
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Serious? Me?
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #349216 is a reply to message #349117] |
Wed, 03 September 2008 23:57 |
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s0meSkunk
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Location: West Philadelphia
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Which really breaks the great in-game, and meta-game balance that we've been enjoying for years.
For the past few years I can simply not enjoy AOW because of things like the "point fix."
IMO whether it was a bug or not, Westwood left it like this, and it was always like this.
Ramjets are supposed to be a very good weapon.
Ramjet point whores help you win, as long as there's no more than five to seven of them.
The other thing that seems to be going around, is halving the damage that sipers do the light armored vehicles.
This also breaks the established, well balanced, meta-game.
It also makes it much harder for rax only bases to defend themselves.
It doesn't make sense to do these proposed "point fixs"
I remember how pissed off people were when they made it a rule to NOT block harvesters when you're pinned in your base...WTF, of course we want to block the harvester, it's giving away points.
In C&C Tiberian Dawn, do you send your harv out to eat Tiberium when there's 8 Medium Tanks outside the entrance of your base????
NO!
And what's with the harvester giving away no points now?????
It's BS.
Renegade is dying, and it's cause of crap like this.
And yea, Mammoth Tanks and Stanks currently give away tons of points, which is part of the balance.
It's a risk to use Stanks or Mammoth Tanks, because they can potentially win the game for you if used right.
It's risky because of the way the points have been, and it's NOT risky when you implement the pointfix.
Point fix is a broken idea, if players don't want it, then why would you implement it??
"Sexy Kick!!!"
[Updated on: Thu, 04 September 2008 00:11] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #349218 is a reply to message #346858] |
Thu, 04 September 2008 00:26 |
StealthEye
Messages: 2518
Registered: May 2006
Location: The Netherlands
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Ramjet point whores help you win, as long as there's no more than five to seven of them.
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Cheats help you to win too. I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed.
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The other thing that seems to be going around, is halving the damage that sipers do the light armored vehicles.
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Not at all related, and not something TT will do.
Harvesters thing is not a good analogy at all.
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And what's with the harvester giving away no points now?????
It's BS
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Indeed it is. This shows that you really don't know what you're talking about, and just skimmed over a few posts... Harvesters give ~100 points total. If you would kill the harvester with C4, then you actually get more points for it with points fix on.
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Renegade is dying, and it's cause of crap like this.
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Says you. You have any proof for this? My guess that there are other factors that are way more improtant. Especially since the points fix is not running on all servers atm anyway.
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And yea, Mammoth Tanks and Stanks currently give away tons of points, which is part of the balance.
It's a risk to use Stanks or Mammoth Tanks, because they can potentially win the game for you if used right.
It's risky because of the way the points have been, and it's NOT risky when you implement the pointfix.
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Yeah, pointfixed games are consisting entirely of stank vs mammy fights. If you would have tried playing with points fix on, you'd see that it's not the case.
Point fix is not a broken idea, if players want it, then why wouldn't you implement it??
BlackIntel admin/founder/coder
Please visit http://www.blackintel.org/
[Updated on: Thu, 04 September 2008 00:26] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #349223 is a reply to message #349218] |
Thu, 04 September 2008 00:41 |
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s0meSkunk
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Registered: June 2005
Location: West Philadelphia
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Isn't point fix going to make it impossible to win if you only have a rax left and are defending from a complete base in 25 vs 25 player games?
Cause I have some good memories of winning with only a rax.
Good times.
"Sexy Kick!!!"
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #349227 is a reply to message #346858] |
Thu, 04 September 2008 02:58 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9727
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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It will just require more teamwork. Which is logical as you lost almost your complete base so you should need more teamwork to still win a game against someone who has their complete base left.
You still get points from shooting vehicles, it's just related to the damage you do.
As to your complete argument of "we're used to it, keep the bug", I have one reply; "blue hell".
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
[Updated on: Thu, 04 September 2008 02:59] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #349230 is a reply to message #349223] |
Thu, 04 September 2008 03:32 |
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sadukar09
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| s0meSkunk wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 02:41 |
Isn't point fix going to make it impossible to win if you only have a rax left and are defending from a complete base in 25 vs 25 player games?
Cause I have some good memories of winning with only a rax.
Good times.
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Why would you win if Nod destroyed everything but Barracks?
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[19:16:48] <APBBR> @ryan3k: THE ENFIELD DEFIES THE LAWS OF PHYSICS BECAUSE THE BULLETS INSTANTLY HIT THEIR TARGETS LOL
[19:16:52] <APBBR> @ryan3k: CHRONO TECHNOLOGY IN TEH BULLETS
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[22:48]<APBBR> @V0LK0V: AOL COMING UR WAI K
[22:48] <APBBR> Host: Quitting due to Westwood Online connection loss.
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #349311 is a reply to message #349293] |
Thu, 04 September 2008 14:00 |
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s0meSkunk
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| sadukar09 wrote on Thu, 04 September 2008 15:08 |
Please tell me WHY you should win when Nod destroyed ALL your base except Barracks?
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You should win because they can't kill your last building.
Plain and simple, you should win if they got you down that far and your team banded together to defend for a long time.
Even more if it's a marathon game, those that last three hours, and you live for over two hours with only a rax.
It's been done in my days.
But I can't stand playing AOW with these point and damage fixes in place.
It's too hard to defend from artillery, and if you're a havoc, and there's no arty to defend from, then you just sit and can't get points, you spent $1000 for nothing.
Which is why it always made 100% sense to me that Havoc and Sakura were worth their price, why there was two snipers, and why the game is point based to begin with.
The original code makes sense to me, and I feel these people have interpreted it in the wrong way.
You can tell me I don't have enough experience on the subject etc. etc. but I used to be rank 1, and almost all the games I'd play back then were evenly matched, and had good teamwork.
People knew how to push back against 8 Mobile Arty's with tech support back then.
Now a day's if that happens, it's a done deal, game over.
Back in my day, tunnel becons and hill camping were still allowed, and it worked out for everyone.
It balanced field, and gave you an option if you're GDI to lose your WF, and take the tunnel.
All was good.
If you pinned in your base, you blocked your harvester, something that's no longer allowed and I can't fathom why.
I mean, I guess I can put together some retard theories.
Like, OK, we're pinned in our base, and now we have to be good enough to get out of this situation, so don't block the harvester cause it's below our standards.
Pathetic reasoning IMO. That's just lowering yourself to a lower kind of person than the person who blocks the harvester until they can push back.
"Sexy Kick!!!"
[Updated on: Thu, 04 September 2008 14:05] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #349312 is a reply to message #346858] |
Thu, 04 September 2008 14:01 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7428
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But the reason that Nod CAN'T put GDI away is because they can buy Mobius's and PICs to kill Nod's tanks. Because of the flawed point system, they get so many points from doing this that they can buy another one when they die. With the fixed point system, the loss of the refinery (and possibly power plant if it's on that map) will make the upgrades less attainable and lets Nod finish the job they started and end the game instead of a 20-minute stalemate with GDI ultimately winning when they were absolutely crushed.
That's not a way to play.
I'm the bawss.
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #349316 is a reply to message #349312] |
Thu, 04 September 2008 14:23 |
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s0meSkunk
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Location: West Philadelphia
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But that's why Renegade is awesome.
You always have the chance to come back from one building.
Right now, without the point fix, GDI or Nod will win if it only comes down to their rax and they defend good.
If you change the point system, they'll lose no matter what because they won't get their proper points off of tanks, and won't have any way to get points to win.
It's not a hopeless situation for the opposing team who has their whole base.
It just needs team work from them.
8 Flame tanks with engi's who have Nukes is a good way to take down a final stand rax situation, even in a 25 vs 25 player game.
The problem is, you have to put the team work together.
The team with better team work should win, but if the point fix system is implemented, then there will be no way for a one building team to win the match, no matter how good that teams team work is.
I remember one match in field, where Nod had lost their Hand of Nod, but instead of them being crushed and over...they defended their obelisk with Mobile Arty's, and point whored the elite infantry in the tunnels with their shotgun troops.
Point fix is anti losing team-team work.
Maybe I don't understand all the way, because I stopped playing for a while after the ladder. I've been playing the new games, and it's not the same.
I was rank 1 on the old ladder many times, and there were many a close game I played, some we lost, some we won, but there were so many games we would have simply auto lost if it wasn't for the point system being the way it was.
"Sexy Kick!!!"
[Updated on: Thu, 04 September 2008 14:25] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #349321 is a reply to message #349317] |
Thu, 04 September 2008 14:57 |
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s0meSkunk
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Location: West Philadelphia
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Sometimes it takes a mistake to put careless people back in gear?
I think you're missing the point, good team work vs. good team work.
Things happen, like losing most of your buildings, but good team work should be able to come back at any point.
Which is why Renegade is so damn awesome.
"Sexy Kick!!!"
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #349359 is a reply to message #349325] |
Thu, 04 September 2008 20:13 |
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s0meSkunk
Messages: 62
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It is a huge mistake to make, but I mean, if your team bands together after that better than the other team is, then you should be allowed to win.
It's part of the magic of C&C Renegade.
The thing is though, it's not hard for the opposing team to take down 25 infantry camping in their rax as long as they use team work properly.
Which is why I listed the example of 8 flame tanks with engi's who have nukes.
You have to assume the flame tanks are going to die, there's only 8 of them vs. 25 infantrys, but if you get at least three nuke becons down, you're pretty much in the clear for the win.
All because of team work, especially if you get a few snipers to help from far away.
It's just, OK, maybe the enemies got lucky two or three times, now we're going to take things uber serious with only our rax, and attempt a come from behind points win.
It's Renegade magic.
Point fix will take this away will it not?
"Sexy Kick!!!"
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