Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » 45% of Americans believe that humans did not evolve
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| Re: 45% of Americans believe that humans did not evolve [message #334680 is a reply to message #334677] |
Wed, 11 June 2008 08:41   |
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Starbuzz
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| cheesesoda wrote on Wed, 11 June 2008 09:40 |
Starbuzz, are you suggesting that you believe that there is a "god", but nothing so much as any religion wants to claim? If so, you really can't consider yourself an atheist, but a deist.
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I think so.
It is quite easy to understand why volcanoes are shaped the way they are but why do plants exist? I can see the change in seasons through my eyes but can't understand why my eye should even exist in the first place to let me see the seasons. I can understand the layers of rocks and sediment in the Grand Canyon but something is more peculiarly complex and orderly about muscles, nerves, organs, and the bones that support and protect them.
If it was all planned and designed, I don't know if this "god" or "gods" should be worshipped but I am past the point where I can simply write them off and not acknowledge the possibility of their/its' existence.
And the thousands of religions can easily be the attempts of hundreds of generations of humanity seeking to understand something greater than them.
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| Re: 45% of Americans believe that humans did not evolve [message #334682 is a reply to message #334673] |
Wed, 11 June 2008 08:43 |
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warranto
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Location: Alberta, Canada
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| Ryu wrote on Wed, 11 June 2008 09:18 |
God is almighty and powerful, ego follows after them two.
I question him so his only logical way to keep his ego is, Showing himself to the masses.
See to believe? more like See to save my ass.
But the real flaw is, Christians BELIEVE God created man kind, But why do a huge majority of Christians try and say it's a fact that god created us, I thought believing and fact were two different thing.
Now why would we kill god? if we killed God there is no God hence no Heaven, Don't try and tell me humans are that stupid!!
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Believing and fact ARE two different things, however people on both sides of the "God argument" fail to notice that.
Why would we kill God?
Do a Google search on "New Testament" and you'll see why and how we killed him.
He came down, showed himself to us (as you are requesting he do), and we killed him (or at least his mortal form). Even then people do not believe.
If people won't believe what is right in front of their face, why should he bother to do it again anyway? He did what you asked him to do once already.
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| Re: 45% of Americans believe that humans did not evolve [message #334684 is a reply to message #333436] |
Wed, 11 June 2008 08:44 |
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warranto
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| Quote: |
And the thousands of religions can easily be the attempts of hundreds of generations of humanity seeking to understand something greater than them.
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Finally, someone other than myself believes this.
Edit to clarify. I do believe in God, but I acknowledge that we may not have a complete understanding of him. Hence my agreement with this statement.
[Updated on: Wed, 11 June 2008 08:45] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: 45% of Americans believe that humans did not evolve [message #334686 is a reply to message #334682] |
Wed, 11 June 2008 08:47 |
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Ryu
Messages: 2833
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Location: Liverpool, England.
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| warranto wrote on Wed, 11 June 2008 16:43 |
| Ryu wrote on Wed, 11 June 2008 09:18 |
God is almighty and powerful, ego follows after them two.
I question him so his only logical way to keep his ego is, Showing himself to the masses.
See to believe? more like See to save my ass.
But the real flaw is, Christians BELIEVE God created man kind, But why do a huge majority of Christians try and say it's a fact that god created us, I thought believing and fact were two different thing.
Now why would we kill god? if we killed God there is no God hence no Heaven, Don't try and tell me humans are that stupid!!
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Believing and fact ARE two different things, however people on both sides of the "God argument" fail to notice that.
Why would we kill God?
Do a Google search on "New Testament" and you'll see why and how we killed him.
He came down, showed himself to us (as you are requesting he do), and we killed him (or at least his mortal form). Even then people do not believe.
If people won't believe what is right in front of their face, why should he bother to do it again anyway? He did what you asked him to do once already.
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New testament..? uhh.. I thought editing the original Bible was a unforgivable sin in the eyes of god.
Presence is a curious thing, if you think you need to prove it... you probably never had it in the first place.
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| Re: 45% of Americans believe that humans did not evolve [message #334691 is a reply to message #334688] |
Wed, 11 June 2008 08:52 |
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Ryu
Messages: 2833
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Location: Liverpool, England.
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| warranto wrote on Wed, 11 June 2008 16:48 |
Sorry?
What does a google search have to do with editing?
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blimy, New testament is.. as I assume, a new part to the bible? or a new bible-related book? if so, apparently, editing the Bible, adding, or removing text is a sin.
Since when did I mention google in my last post? (OH THE WEB VERSION IS FAKE LOL.)
Presence is a curious thing, if you think you need to prove it... you probably never had it in the first place.
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| Re: 45% of Americans believe that humans did not evolve [message #334697 is a reply to message #334680] |
Wed, 11 June 2008 09:01 |
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| Starbuzz wrote on Wed, 11 June 2008 11:41 |
| cheesesoda wrote on Wed, 11 June 2008 09:40 |
Starbuzz, are you suggesting that you believe that there is a "god", but nothing so much as any religion wants to claim? If so, you really can't consider yourself an atheist, but a deist.
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I think so.
It is quite easy to understand why volcanoes are shaped the way they are but why do plants exist? I can see the change in seasons through my eyes but can't understand why my eye should even exist in the first place to let me see the seasons. I can understand the layers of rocks and sediment in the Grand Canyon but something is more peculiarly complex and orderly about muscles, nerves, organs, and the bones that support and protect them.
If it was all planned and designed, I don't know if this "god" or "gods" should be worshipped but I am past the point where I can simply write them off and not acknowledge the possibility of their/its' existence.
And the thousands of religions can easily be the attempts of hundreds of generations of humanity seeking to understand something greater than them.
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That's why I'm a theist. I will argue that there has to be something greater than us. I don't try to pretend that any religion even begins to understand this deity.
Though, if you just believe in the possibility, then you're agnostic.
See, your last paragraph puts what I believe better than what I've been able to describe it. It's like, why can people (monotheists, to be exact) write off so many different religions, including polytheistic religions, when they're the product of polytheism that reduced the number of deities to one? That's why I have a problem with a religion saying that their beliefs are the one, true beliefs. I'm sure billions of people that existed before them believed the same about their beliefs, and there's no decent reason to suggest that everybody else was wrong.
Libertarian Party | The King's Throne | The Soda Shop
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| Re: 45% of Americans believe that humans did not evolve [message #334698 is a reply to message #334680] |
Wed, 11 June 2008 09:02 |
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GEORGE ZIMMER
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| Starbuzz wrote on Wed, 11 June 2008 10:41 |
| cheesesoda wrote on Wed, 11 June 2008 09:40 |
Starbuzz, are you suggesting that you believe that there is a "god", but nothing so much as any religion wants to claim? If so, you really can't consider yourself an atheist, but a deist.
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I think so.
It is quite easy to understand why volcanoes are shaped the way they are but why do plants exist? I can see the change in seasons through my eyes but can't understand why my eye should even exist in the first place to let me see the seasons. I can understand the layers of rocks and sediment in the Grand Canyon but something is more peculiarly complex and orderly about muscles, nerves, organs, and the bones that support and protect them.
If it was all planned and designed, I don't know if this "god" or "gods" should be worshipped but I am past the point where I can simply write them off and not acknowledge the possibility of their/its' existence.
And the thousands of religions can easily be the attempts of hundreds of generations of humanity seeking to understand something greater than them.
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I must say Starbuzz, thank you for being one of the few intelligent people out there when it comes to religion. Not someone who THINKS they're intelligent, but actually ARE intelligent.
A saying I like alot is, a wise man knows it's impossible to know everything.
It's good to know there's people who understand there's things beyond their comprehension. Sure, human nature makes us curious. That's fine, but no matter what religion you follow (Yes, evolution IS a religion, whether you admit it or not), don't claim it as fact. As also said, beleifs and facts are two different things.
Toggle Spoiler| Scrin wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 13:22 |
| cAmpa wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 12:45 |
Scrin, stop pming people to get the building bars.
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FUCK YOU AND THIS SHIT GAME WITH YOUR SCRIPTS!!! I HAVE ASKING YOU AND ANOTHER NOOBS HERE ABOUT HELP WITH THAT BUILDING ICONS FEATURES FOR YEARS, BUT YOU KEEP IGNORING ME AND KEEP WRITE SHIT, SO BURN YOU AND YOUR ASSLICKERS FRIENDS, THIS TIME I'M NOT COME BACK!!!!!!!!!   
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| Re: 45% of Americans believe that humans did not evolve [message #334719 is a reply to message #333436] |
Wed, 11 June 2008 10:35 |
StealthEye
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Depends on your definition, simple as that.
Same goes for facts... What's a fact? Something that is definitely true? How do you measure that? Something that has been scientifically proven? It always depends on definitions and assumptions. 2 + 3 is only 5 if you define what 2, 3 and 5 mean.
Define fact as "something of which _you know_ it is real/exists". Then using fact is perfectly fine.
I don't see why nature would give any hint on anything supernatural existing. Also, if some sort of god exists, how did he get there? Was he created? By who?
I don't say it's impossible for God or or anything supernatural to exist, it's just that I don't see any reason to assume why he would. I'd just as easily believe that we live in something like The Matrix, or that nothing exists at all (dreams? does the world in dreams exist?), or everything exists.
If you want my opinion, I'd say we don't exist at all, or that everything that can be imagined exists.
BlackIntel admin/founder/coder
Please visit http://www.blackintel.org/
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| Re: 45% of Americans believe that humans did not evolve [message #334724 is a reply to message #334719] |
Wed, 11 June 2008 10:55 |
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warranto
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| StealthEye wrote on Wed, 11 June 2008 11:35 |
Depends on your definition, simple as that.
Same goes for facts... What's a fact? Something that is definitely true? How do you measure that? Something that has been scientifically proven? It always depends on definitions and assumptions. 2 + 3 is only 5 if you define what 2, 3 and 5 mean.
Define fact as "something of which _you know_ it is real/exists". Then using fact is perfectly fine.
I don't see why nature would give any hint on anything supernatural existing. Also, if some sort of god exists, how did he get there? Was he created? By who?
I don't say it's impossible for God or or anything supernatural to exist, it's just that I don't see any reason to assume why he would. I'd just as easily believe that we live in something like The Matrix, or that nothing exists at all (dreams? does the world in dreams exist?), or everything exists.
If you want my opinion, I'd say we don't exist at all, or that everything that can be imagined exists.
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Heh, this is in no way a poke at you, but take an Epistemology course. I think you would seriously enjoy that.
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| Re: 45% of Americans believe that humans did not evolve [message #334742 is a reply to message #334698] |
Wed, 11 June 2008 12:07 |
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Spoony
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| Cabal8616 wrote on Wed, 11 June 2008 11:02 |
no matter what religion you follow (Yes, evolution IS a religion, whether you admit it or not)
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oh my
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Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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| Re: 45% of Americans believe that humans did not evolve [message #334764 is a reply to message #334730] |
Wed, 11 June 2008 14:35 |
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warranto
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| StealthEye wrote on Wed, 11 June 2008 12:20 |
| Surth wrote on Wed, 11 June 2008 19:40 |
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If you want my opinion, I'd say we don't exist at all,
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I dont want your opinion, considering you dont exist.
seriously, dont do drugs.
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I don't. You clearly did not really understand my post.
warranto, I doubt it, since it's probably not going to give me any real answers so I'd prefer wasting my time on something else. 
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If the class centers on the idea of scepicism, as mine did, you find out there is no real good proof to suggest that we (or at least the external world) even exists. Figured that based on your previous post you would enjoy it. If only for the amusement of seeing how the most obvious arguments for it don't hold much weight in a philosophical debate.
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| Re: 45% of Americans believe that humans did not evolve [message #334781 is a reply to message #334777] |
Wed, 11 June 2008 17:06 |
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Starbuzz
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| cheesesoda wrote on Wed, 11 June 2008 11:01 |
That's why I'm a theist. I will argue that there has to be something greater than us. I don't try to pretend that any religion even begins to understand this deity.
Though, if you just believe in the possibility, then you're agnostic.
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Same here. As for the possiblity I mentioned earlier, atleast it can be the bare minimum conclusion someone can come to given the large amount of hints we have...I am past that ofcourse.
But I don't think a higher power feels the need to intravene in human life. Most of the rules (sacrifices, offerings, etc) were made by humans in their flawed understanding of this higher power. We are all so gullible anyway and have a complex range of emotions to aid in whatever we come up with.
| cheesesoda wrote on Wed, 11 June 2008 11:01 |
See, your last paragraph puts what I believe better than what I've been able to describe it. It's like, why can people (monotheists, to be exact) write off so many different religions, including polytheistic religions, when they're the product of polytheism that reduced the number of deities to one? That's why I have a problem with a religion saying that their beliefs are the one, true beliefs. I'm sure billions of people that existed before them believed the same about their beliefs, and there's no decent reason to suggest that everybody else was wrong.
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Completely agree.
EDIT: @ Cabal: Yeah...well I guess change is the only thing constant in life.
[Updated on: Wed, 11 June 2008 17:09] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: 45% of Americans believe that humans did not evolve [message #334812 is a reply to message #334776] |
Thu, 12 June 2008 00:10 |
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Spoony
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| Cabal8616 wrote on Wed, 11 June 2008 18:02 |
When I say evolution, I'm naturally referring to the belief that it's what created us. Not the process of evolution itself.
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simply agreeing with a theory qualifies as being "religious"?
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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