Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » Do You Like E.A. Games?. I Think.
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| Re: Do You Like E.A. Games?. I Think. [message #327206 is a reply to message #327203] |
Tue, 22 April 2008 00:41   |
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R315r4z0r
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| Spoony wrote on Tue, 22 April 2008 03:07 |
| r4zor wrote: |
What I meant by Beta testers is that C&C3 didn't have a beta, it had a community summit and they chose a select few people who they thought were "pros" and let them answer all the big choices in the game. But as it turns out they were also people who enjoyed Generals and still played it. It is their fault that the radar in C&C3 is on the MCV and not the Command Post.
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it's also their "fault" that the game is more balanced than every single westwood C&C... sure it's not perfect, but it's gold compared to, for example, RA2 or C&C95
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No, that is incorrect as well.
The "pros" I referenced earlier had absolutly nothing to do with balance. Balance falls onto Greg Black as well as the rest of the C&C3 community. Not 10 single people who think they are gods.
The only thing that those people did was play it and tell EA if it was "worthy of a C&C title" and how in which ways the game could be better.
[Updated on: Tue, 22 April 2008 00:49] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Do You Like E.A. Games?. I Think. [message #327227 is a reply to message #326325] |
Tue, 22 April 2008 07:13 |
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NukeIt15
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They've been putting out poorer and poorer quality products for a while now. I couldn't prove anything, but I'm fairly sure that EA also has a few of the major reviewers (IGN being suspect #1) on the payroll. Reviews of EA games I've played in the past 4-5 years have consistently not matched up with the actual quality of the product; major glitches like the BF2 jump/damage exploit don't get mentioned, nor do things like poor netcode, excessively long load times, or frequent crashing. There are only really two explanations for those sort of consistent oversights: A- The reviewers just don't play the games as thoroughly as they should, or B- The reviewers are asked very nicely not to mention nasty things about EA-produced software. Seeing as how other games that are poorly coded or just blow goats get pretty accurate and fair reviews while even EA's shittiest sports game repeats and Sims expansions get above 7/10, I tend to lean towards the latter.
Not that EA's special in that- movie studios do it all the time- but it's something to take into consideration when wondering why EA continues to sell lots of games that aren't as good as they used to be. Also bear in mind that we're in the minority- most people who play games don't ever communicate with other gamers via forums like these. Most of EA's customers are impulse buyers who see ads or pretty boxes and don't look any deeper; even those that read reviews first aren't nearly as likely to report poor quality control to as many other gamers as we are. I'm sure that a lot of them just think that shitty games are an industry-wide phenomenon and that they won't find better elsewhere, which with a few notable exceptions is sadly becoming the case.
Whatever you may think of EA's practices, there are a few facts which just cannot be denied:
1. EA games have consistently shown poorer quality control for several years now, as evidenced by glaringly obvious bugs that couldn't possibly have been missed in a thorough beta (as with the aforementioned jump/damage exploit in BF2).
2. EA games are frequently just re-hashed clones of previously released EA games, i.e. BF2-2142 and ALL of their licensed sports titles.
3. EA expansion packs barely deserve the name- the prime example here is The Sims, whose expansions consist of a few new items and similar eye-candy for a full-expansion price of $30 or more.
4. Despite all of the above, the lion's share of EA titles consistently receive reviews above 70% and continue to sell millions of copies each year.
5. EA shows consistent disregard for community input and favors quick-fix patches rather than permanent, reliable solutions- as in the last C&C3 patch, which altered gameplay aspects (namely the use and placement of power plants) which have long been the cornerstone of tactics in the series rather than addressing the issue beneath the surface (shit builds too damned fast). Their original "fix" for BF2's jump/damage exploit was equally laughable; rather than remove the glitch that allowed jumping players to be immune to damage, they changed it so players could no longer fire weapons while jumping.
Diagnosis, hmm?
"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived of the use of them." - Thomas Paine
Remember, kids: illiteracy is cool. If you took the time to read this, you are clearly a loser who will never get laid. You've been warned.
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| Re: Do You Like E.A. Games?. I Think. [message #327230 is a reply to message #326325] |
Tue, 22 April 2008 07:40 |
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Well, it costs 4 (or is it 10) times as much to get a new customer than it is to get a repeat customer. The people that pay attention to real reviews and aren't just going to gobble up the games are loyal customers to a certain genre/publisher. At least, in most industries. Perhaps this industry is different, and it wouldn't completely surprise me.
Still, the people who will be long-standing customers will be those who are die hard gamers and not some 15 y/o kid who wets himself over the box graphics. Plus, if EA keeps going down the shitter, they'll completely lose the dedicated gamer base, and then smaller companies and long-standing companies like VALVe, Activision, Blizzard will continue to thrive and possibly even grow exponentially with the increase in dedicated gamers.
Not to mention with the whole digital revolution where you can purchase software and games to download and play, EA will be forced to better their quality if they wish to expand in that growing market. There won't be any fancy boxes to draw in pubescent teenagers. This could conceivably happen to console gaming, as well.
EA will never be able to monopolize if they're unwilling to conform to industry standards. In order to keep up with the other companies, they'll have to put more money and time into marketing which will further decrease the quality of their games, and it'll get to a point (and I feel, rather quickly) where people won't pay more than bargain bin prices for the shit that EA will be crapping out in order to keep up revenues. Before you know it, we'll be rating games like Big Rigs higher than what EA will be producing, but EA probably will be dead before that happens.
Libertarian Party | The King's Throne | The Soda Shop
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| Re: Do You Like E.A. Games?. I Think. [message #327242 is a reply to message #327206] |
Tue, 22 April 2008 08:47 |
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Spoony
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| R315r4z0r wrote on Tue, 22 April 2008 03:41 |
No, that is incorrect as well.
The "pros" I referenced earlier had absolutly nothing to do with balance. Balance falls onto Greg Black as well as the rest of the C&C3 community. Not 10 single people who think they are gods.
The only thing that those people did was play it and tell EA if it was "worthy of a C&C title" and how in which ways the game could be better.
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I don't know where to begin telling you how wrong you are. Still, I may as well try.
1. "10 single people who think they are gods" - uh, there's no need to slate someone just because they're generally considered to be RTS experts and you're not
2. the "pros" you referenced earlier had EVERYTHING TO DO WITH BALANCE, they were at EA for weeks playing 1v1s constantly against other top players making sure every matchup was fair, if it wasn't fair then they tweaked the strengths of particular units, the game would be altered accordingly and they'd repeat the process the next day.
Tell me, if Westwood were making a Renegade 2, who'd you rather they got to do the alpha testing? People like me or people like you? 'cos I still remember our 1v1...
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: Do You Like E.A. Games?. I Think. [message #327274 is a reply to message #326325] |
Tue, 22 April 2008 11:01 |
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nikki6ixx
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Registered: August 2007
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General (2 Stars) |
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Why do people here have this idea that EA intends to become a monopoly, and dominate the marketplace, making them seemingly evil...
Of course they want to do that... any business does. Do you guys think that companies go into business just to be total nice guys who'll happily take a 15% marketshare, and let the others divvy the rest of the market up amongst themselves? That's what spurs competition in the first place.
Acquisitions are a part of doing business. It's good policy: If you can't beat them, buy them. You guys never know... maybe those smaller companies WANTED to be purchased by a major publisher like EA, so their owners, and employees could cash out, and make a mint. Lots of startups in the business world are created for just that reason.
Why does EA 'need to know it's place'? Really, how does it do that in the first place? Does the CEO just go up to shareholders one day and say, 'ohi guyz, we're gona stop persooing profets nao, so VALVE, n Activision can make moar monies, and we can totely ecwal, k?'
Renegade:
| Aircraftkiller wrote on Fri, 10 January 2014 16:56 |
The only game where everyone competes to be an e-janitor.
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| Re: Do You Like E.A. Games?. I Think. [message #327278 is a reply to message #327273] |
Tue, 22 April 2008 11:20 |
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Spoony
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| R315r4z0r wrote on Tue, 22 April 2008 12:57 |
They did not have anything to do with balance. They made blogs on how balance was made, those people were not there for weeks, they were only there to answer questions and test out the game. The only feed back they gave was for gameplay.
Of course there was balance feedback but most likely only slightly. Read Greg Black's "Art of Balancing" blog on the EA website... I don't feel like getting the link. It shows how much work he goes into balancing each unit at a time.
Also, they were the ones who got stuff most other people don't like in. They also requested some other things as well that are liked, however I don't know what they are...
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you are absolutely dead wrong.
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the "pros" you referenced earlier had EVERYTHING TO DO WITH BALANCE, they were at EA for weeks playing 1v1s constantly against other top players making sure every matchup was fair, if it wasn't fair then they tweaked the strengths of particular units, the game would be altered accordingly and they'd repeat the process the next day.
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^ that's what happened. you're probably thinking of something else, either that or you're making stuff up as you go. that ^^ is how the alpha testing went.
| R315r4z0r wrote on Tue, 22 April 2008 12:57 |
And I say "pros" not because I think they are good... but that is what EA called them. I happen to think anyone who considers themselves a pro is a moron... but that is just me.
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you're dodging the point - who said they consider themselves pros?
what's more, EA call them "pros" because they're experts at RTS and actually know about balancing... most people here don't.
| R315r4z0r wrote on Tue, 22 April 2008 12:57 |
Oh yea, I also remember the 1vs1. And like I said, they don't prove anything in the way of skill.
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that explains the fact you asked me for a 1v2, then proceeded to lose in a 1v1...
as for not proving skill, we've already established this to be garbage, but perhaps you missed that revelation. For starters, do you remember the fact I controlled the field with an arty for virtually the entire game, and here's the weird part; you never actually tried to kill me? Just fixed your buildings?
on the subject of whether 1v1s can "prove skill", you basically proved you don't really know a damn thing about this game, even the basics like "if someone's attacking your base, it's a good idea to kill them". I dunno why you go around asking for 1v2s...
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: Do You Like E.A. Games?. I Think. [message #327279 is a reply to message #327276] |
Tue, 22 April 2008 11:22 |
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Spoony
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| cheesesoda wrote on Tue, 22 April 2008 13:14 |
Anybody who bitches about companies like EA, Microsoft, and Apple better never open their own businesses for the sake of not being hypocrites.
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I disagree, I think the absolute best thing for retards like Oblivion to do is start a gaming company... then when it fails utterly, they'll either learn some humility, or they'll get even angrier at EA for succeeding where they failed...
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: Do You Like E.A. Games?. I Think. [message #327282 is a reply to message #326325] |
Tue, 22 April 2008 11:53 |
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NukeIt15
Messages: 987
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I actually tried my hand way back at balancing units in an RTS- Homeworld: Cataclysm- for a mod I was making at the time, and I can honestly say I don't envy the folks who get paid to do it. It's enough of a pain in the ass to make everything work smoothly and not be too over/under powered in singleplay- I don't want to even imagine how much of a cluster-fuck it must be to do the same in multiplayer modes. Nevermind the enormous amount of work that must go into just creating the game in the first place.
What bothers me is that EA doesn't bother to let their people, many of whom are very, very good at what they do, put in the extra time that fine-tuning a game requires. They may be the worst, but they're hardly the only company that acts this way- Vivendi is just as bad about pushing games out before they're ready, then not providing adequate follow-on support. I don't have very many games from Activision or Atari or THQ, so I really can't speak to the quality of their products. 2K used to be quite good, but they've been on my shit-list ever since the whole Bioshock DRM thing came up. Right now, Valve is the only publisher that really stands out to me as an example of How to Do Things Right- and that fact that Steam is spreading like wildfire definitely tends to support that conclusion. In the past year alone, the service has expanded to include more than triple the number of titles it used to offer.
I agree that EA's current state of shit-tacularity is indeed largely due to the availability of things like Steam to consumers, and that they probably won't see what's heading for them until it's too late. Whatever EA tries to do, it will reach a point where gamers get tired of accepting half-assed products- and at that point, their sales figures will level off and decline. I wouldn't be surprised to see EA bought out by someone else within the next ten years and dissolved as the entity we've come to know. Obesity leads to reduced mobility, and you sure as hell can't win a race if you can't find your feet first. 
"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived of the use of them." - Thomas Paine
Remember, kids: illiteracy is cool. If you took the time to read this, you are clearly a loser who will never get laid. You've been warned.
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| Re: Do You Like E.A. Games?. I Think. [message #327286 is a reply to message #326325] |
Tue, 22 April 2008 12:10 |
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nikki6ixx
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I'm sure EA will still remain the major entity it is today. They will simply adapt, and perhaps mimic, and ape the 'Steam' model.
And you can't blame them for pressuring their developers to release stuff very quickly. Why? Because the customers demand the stuff get released fast.
Many 'gamers' I've met have a horribly short attention span, and lack any sort of real patience, or even the concept of patience.
You can go onto any thread about an upcoming game, and you'll see people screaming in Caps-Lock, 'OMG Y CANT THEY RELE AES IT NOW FUKING BUNCH OF MORNS!' How about the freaking 'outcry' when GTA IV was delayed... instead of accepting that the wait will be a couple extra months, the internet was alight with XBOX nerds blaming Playstation 3, and the PS3 dorks blaming the 360...
Renegade:
| Aircraftkiller wrote on Fri, 10 January 2014 16:56 |
The only game where everyone competes to be an e-janitor.
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[Updated on: Tue, 22 April 2008 12:11] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Do You Like E.A. Games?. I Think. [message #328553 is a reply to message #326325] |
Thu, 01 May 2008 10:43 |
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Or, people like myself, who dislike EA and their oversized reputation (and company) and are WRITING THEIR OWN GAMES, which DO NOT CRASH! WOW! Hard!
Sorry, but if I can write a game that doesn't crash with the benefit of no more than 8 months programming experience in freaking Pascal, then EA, whose coders are paid, university graduates, have no excuse.
Renguard is a wonderful initiative
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| halokid wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 08:46 |
| R315r4z0r wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 15:35 |
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the hell is that?
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| Re: Do You Like E.A. Games?. I Think. [message #328555 is a reply to message #326325] |
Thu, 01 May 2008 11:01 |
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nikki6ixx
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But, games are massive collaborations, requiring huge team of programmers; you're bound to get bugs when you have a lot of people working on the same product, and trying to paste it together before a deadline.
School projects are the same way, as well as projects in other work environments.
Plus, I've been doing my own accounting, investing and writing tax returns for years; does that mean I could have walked into Bear-Stearns, and told them that they ought to shape up?
(I wish I could've  )
Renegade:
| Aircraftkiller wrote on Fri, 10 January 2014 16:56 |
The only game where everyone competes to be an e-janitor.
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[Updated on: Thu, 01 May 2008 12:16] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Do You Like E.A. Games?. I Think. [message #329690 is a reply to message #326911] |
Thu, 08 May 2008 17:18 |
InternetThug
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| TD wrote on Sun, 20 April 2008 07:23 |
| Surth wrote on Sun, 20 April 2008 13:58 |
| TD wrote on Sat, 19 April 2008 17:24 |
@Oblivion165, just FYI
Spoony never loses any debate.
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Anthrax cheating debate?
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He still hasn't lost that debate since anthrax couldn't prove he didn't cheat.
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if u rly think i cheat there's somethin wrong with u - i didnt even do anything suspicious in those games...and i couldnt take an SS of renguard (which proves nothin with *cheat name removed*anyways) because i wasnt on renguard, (crimson even checked the global renguard logs) and my story only changed once, it went from i didnt think i was on renguard, xpert said somethin like WELL MY BOT SAYS U WERE, i was like..i wasnt...crimson said i wasnt...your bot is gay, my story changed maybe 0 times...but spoony wouldn't admit hes wrong ever i took the one ss i could possibly take that i was asked for, and it was clean...get over it LOL
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| Re: Do You Like E.A. Games?. I Think. [message #329702 is a reply to message #329690] |
Thu, 08 May 2008 22:53 |
Rocko
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| NSStRyKeR wrote on Thu, 08 May 2008 19:18 |
| TD wrote on Sun, 20 April 2008 07:23 |
| Surth wrote on Sun, 20 April 2008 13:58 |
| TD wrote on Sat, 19 April 2008 17:24 |
@Oblivion165, just FYI
Spoony never loses any debate.
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Anthrax cheating debate?
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He still hasn't lost that debate since anthrax couldn't prove he didn't cheat.
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if u rly think i cheat there's somethin wrong with u - i didnt even do anything suspicious in those games...and i couldnt take an SS of renguard (which proves nothin with *cheat name removed*anyways) because i wasnt on renguard, (crimson even checked the global renguard logs) and my story only changed once, it went from i didnt think i was on renguard, xpert said somethin like WELL MY BOT SAYS U WERE, i was like..i wasnt...crimson said i wasnt...your bot is gay, my story changed maybe 0 times...but spoony wouldn't admit hes wrong ever i took the one ss i could possibly take that i was asked for, and it was clean...get over it LOL
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wat
black and proud
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| Re: Do You Like E.A. Games?. I Think. [message #329707 is a reply to message #329690] |
Thu, 08 May 2008 23:56 |
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Spoony
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| NSStRyKeR wrote on Thu, 08 May 2008 19:18 |
and my story only changed once, it went from i didnt think i was on renguard, xpert said somethin like WELL MY BOT SAYS U WERE, i was like..i wasnt...crimson said i wasnt...your bot is gay, my story changed maybe 0 times...but spoony wouldn't admit hes wrong ever
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rofl, that's an outright lie and you know it.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: Do You Like E.A. Games?. I Think. [message #329743 is a reply to message #329712] |
Fri, 09 May 2008 08:30 |
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Spoony
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you tell me to "get over it", you're the one who brought it up over and over again for six months... normally when someone's asked for a SS they don't do that (including when they, you know, actually post it), but it's good to see a SS request brought a ray of sunshine into your dark tunnel of a life.
anyway, here's what happened
me: "are you on renguard?"
you: "yes"
me: "k, i'd like a SS of your renguard screen please"
you: "ok"
me: "thanks"
you: "actually i think i'm not on renguard"
me: "derm ok"
xpert: "yes he is"
you: "shit sorry, I thought I wasn't"
me: "...."
you: "actually no i wasn't after all"
me: "you gonna pick one of these and stick to it anytime soon?"
you: "I WASNT ON RENGUARD GOD HOW COMPLICATED IS THIS?"
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: Do You Like E.A. Games?. I Think. [message #329746 is a reply to message #326325] |
Fri, 09 May 2008 09:12 |
InternetThug
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lol but crimson proved i wasnt actually on renguard anyways...so what difference does it make...i don't really want to argue about this here lol, my dark tunnel of a life lol? what, i spend all day hanging out with friends after school and playing sports..and maybe 10 games of renegade a week...pretty bad life lol
leave it to you to resort to personal insults haha...next you'll say something about how angry i am over this post..
[Updated on: Fri, 09 May 2008 09:13] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Do You Like E.A. Games?. I Think. [message #329754 is a reply to message #329746] |
Fri, 09 May 2008 09:24 |
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Spoony
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| NSStRyKeR wrote on Fri, 09 May 2008 12:12 |
lol but crimson proved i wasnt actually on renguard anyways...so what difference does it make...i don't really want to argue about this here lol
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np, wasn't me who brought it up. as for what difference does it make, see earlier post re: bringing it up constantly for six months... that's not normal, dude. people don't do that even when they successfully post the ss which you didn't, frankly it just reeks of insecurity about your skill.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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