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Re: The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled... [message #326437 is a reply to message #326274]

Wed, 16 April 2008 12:45

warranto
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Registered: February 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada

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General (2 Stars)

cheesesoda wrote on Tue, 15 April 2008 11:12

I'll take my Deontological ethics, where intent is what matters regarding morality.

Heh, Deontological ethics has its issues as well. Not saying it is wrong, just that it has issues.

Consequentialism is what most people follow anyway, usually in the Utilitarian form. (Mills-style libertarianism, for example.)

[Updated on: Wed, 16 April 2008 12:46]

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Re: The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled... [message #326442 is a reply to message #325739]

Wed, 16 April 2008 13:06

Herr Surth
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Registered: July 2007

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Spoony prefers Dentistological Ethics tbh.

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Re: The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled... [message #326444 is a reply to message #326437]

Wed, 16 April 2008 13:14

cheesesoda
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Registered: March 2003
Location: Jackson, Michigan

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warranto wrote on Wed, 16 April 2008 15:45

cheesesoda wrote on Tue, 15 April 2008 11:12

I'll take my Deontological ethics, where intent is what matters regarding morality.

Oh, trust me, I know. Still, I'd rather use the philosophy that my intent is ultimately what matters versus what comes of my actions. I just can't see myself ever completely agreeing with Kantian ethics, especially.

I hate Utilitarianism, though. While a lot of what I view is widely accepted by most Utilitarians, how I get to it personally is a bit different. Plus, anything and everything could be twisted using this thought pattern. Utilitarianism doesn't respect justice or rights unless that's what maximizes benefit (which, granted, it does often enough, but you can argue cases where it wouldn't).

Me, personally, I tend to mix and match a few different moral philosophies. I'm a Social Contract theorist with some Ethics of Care, Virtue Ethics, Kantian ethics, and Ethical Humanism. I think it's important that we respect everybody and agree to disagree while respecting their autonomy, but I will put my friends and family first above anyone else.

Libertarian Party | The King's Throne | The Soda Shop

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Re: The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled... [message #326445 is a reply to message #325739]

Wed, 16 April 2008 13:27

warranto
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Heh, the only real issue there is what if your intent lead to someone's death?

Your intent was to save an individual who was choking, but because of your lack of education you end up doing the Heimlich Maneuver wrong, breaking ribs which puncture the lungs of the person and end up killing him. The intent was to save a life, but the consequence was death.

Anyway, I don't mean to pull this off topic, just something to illustrate some issues with intent.

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Re: The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled... [message #326448 is a reply to message #325739]

Wed, 16 April 2008 13:31

Herr Surth
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Registered: July 2007

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tbh both intent and outcome matter. You cant say in general which matters more, thats different from situation to situation.

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Re: The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled... [message #326449 is a reply to message #325739]

Wed, 16 April 2008 13:32

cheesesoda
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Still, the act of saving a life wasn't immoral. He was misguided and should feel guilty for what consequences came about his actions, but I can't imagine I'd be there and think of him as immoral.

Obviously, the consequences still matter. I just don't think they determine what is or what isn't immoral. I'm not saying it's perfectly fine for people to act in blissful ignorance, but if they're not capable of more, then I wouldn't call them immoral.

Libertarian Party | The King's Throne | The Soda Shop

[Updated on: Wed, 16 April 2008 13:33]

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Re: The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled... [message #326458 is a reply to message #326449]

Wed, 16 April 2008 14:22

R315r4z0r
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Registered: March 2005
Location: New York

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General (3 Stars)

What people fail to understand is that you can't generalize everything.

Just because the means to do something with a positive effect would be considered "wrong" doesn't mean you get to say that because of that everything done for "good" reason is wrong.

Everything depends on the situation. Using Cheesesoda's example of lynching an innocent man to stop a riot, while it may be wrong to hurt an innocent man even if it is to stop a larger problem, it doesn't mean that EVERYTHING has to be aligned to those terms. If I was to do something to appease the riot other than commit another crime then it has a positive effect with no negative input. Same effect, less negativity.

I hate it when people standardize everything. Just because something can be done one way, doesn't mean that it can't be done another way with the same outcome.

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