Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » If you are not Muslim you should be raped and killed
Re: If you are not Muslim you should be raped and killed [message #381109 is a reply to message #380959] |
Sat, 18 April 2009 14:38 |
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Ma1kel
Messages: 956 Registered: July 2005 Location: Kingdom of the Netherland...
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archerman wrote on Sat, 18 April 2009 07:01 |
Muad Dib15 wrote on Mon, 23 June 2008 02:30 |
HeavyX101 wrote on Thu, 19 June 2008 19:10 | Well, I'm a muslim. And i dont think that the non-belivers of islam should get punnished. And i dont think that allah would of say that.
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If you are a muslim, then you should stop being one right now since you obviouly don't know the qur'an.
[40.70]Those who reject the Book and that with which We have sent Our Apostle; but they shall soon come to know,
[40.71] When the fetters and the chains shall be on their necks; they shall be dragged
[40.72] Into boiling water, then in the fire shall they be burned;
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/koran/koran-idx?type=DIV0&byte=733153
@Spoony: Before you spout blatent bullshit like that, consider that no one has found proof that God/Allah does or doesn't exist or that Muhammed couldn't write.
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I have no counter-argument whatsoever so I'm just gonna do a ad hominem and claim you lack sufficient knowledge on the Quran and Arabic, even though the quoted verses are from one of the most used English translations of the Quran.
Then I'm gonna point that the completely unrelated fact that there were no car bombing every day before the occupation. Because Saddam was secular and repressed every kind of terrorism so their was no ability to kill all the members of the other sect. So the only reason they didn't kill each other like animals is because they couldn't.
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Dutch to English
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Re: If you are not Muslim you should be raped and killed [message #381238 is a reply to message #381139] |
Sun, 19 April 2009 02:37 |
Pyr0man1c
Messages: 186 Registered: April 2009
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And what religion are you?
"Sapere Aude- Dare to be wise"
AmunRa | and its all this "drama" that will one day end renegade...
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Quotesv00d00 | A question regarding RenGuard. Because it's a client/server application, what will stop the legions of people who cheat, and can crack apps, from reverse engineering it down to it's core protocol / encryption (which I'll assume it has), and duplicating it, so that they have their own client which responds to the server with all the correct info for an unpatched Renegade, but in fact is patched.
Personally, I think you should write a server-side only anti-cheat, which hooks the networking routines in Renegade. From there, using either the help of your staff who worked on creating Renegade, or from knowledge aquired while working with the network code in Renegade, create a system to monitor hit locations (did they REALLY hit, based on calculations by the anti-cheat (stopping BH)), how much damage are they claiming, vs how much damage their currently selected weapon really does, etc.
Then, add rate-of-fire checking, complete w/ lag tolerance (since lagged client will of course, upon delag, seem to fire faster, etc), and option to simply "edit" the incoming packets, to filter out the cheat (reduce damage, stop bullets, etc), or kick-ban the cheater (admins decision, based on anti cheat config).
Is it just me, or does that make more sense?
The flaw to Renegade of course, which is the core to the cheats, is that unlike most other games, Renegade lets the CLIENT decide hit locations, damage, RoF, etc. Vs others which say, "ok, the client fired their pistol along this trajectory. Did they hit something? How much damage did they do to that target if so. Report findings to clients".
My only concern, is that there will be alot more teams of people ripping apart the hard work of your small team, and undoing what you have done. Can you keep up writing fixes / completely rewriting the protocol to counter them once they have created their OWN complete anti-RenGuard client? If not, consider the server-side only method, and solve it once and for all, with the only version changes being to fix bugs, and not complete rewrites which will really piss admins off (if it takes this long for the initial, how long after the cheaters create their own client to counter it will your rewrite take to do?).
- v00d00
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ELiT3FLyR | ill say this again to all the TT people actually working on the patch. all you have to do is fix the bugs in the game. This is your role. dont get involved in a pointfix debate that you can never win (spoony has never managed to win one and hes a decent player) nor bother suggesting solutions for the faults in pointfix. just fix the damn bugs and you will all be remmebered as renegade heroes.
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Re: If you are not Muslim you should be raped and killed [message #381336 is a reply to message #381238] |
Sun, 19 April 2009 12:52 |
Pyr0man1c
Messages: 186 Registered: April 2009
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so say we all. wrote on Sun, 19 April 2009 04:37 | Dutch
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I lol'd
"Sapere Aude- Dare to be wise"
AmunRa | and its all this "drama" that will one day end renegade...
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Quotesv00d00 | A question regarding RenGuard. Because it's a client/server application, what will stop the legions of people who cheat, and can crack apps, from reverse engineering it down to it's core protocol / encryption (which I'll assume it has), and duplicating it, so that they have their own client which responds to the server with all the correct info for an unpatched Renegade, but in fact is patched.
Personally, I think you should write a server-side only anti-cheat, which hooks the networking routines in Renegade. From there, using either the help of your staff who worked on creating Renegade, or from knowledge aquired while working with the network code in Renegade, create a system to monitor hit locations (did they REALLY hit, based on calculations by the anti-cheat (stopping BH)), how much damage are they claiming, vs how much damage their currently selected weapon really does, etc.
Then, add rate-of-fire checking, complete w/ lag tolerance (since lagged client will of course, upon delag, seem to fire faster, etc), and option to simply "edit" the incoming packets, to filter out the cheat (reduce damage, stop bullets, etc), or kick-ban the cheater (admins decision, based on anti cheat config).
Is it just me, or does that make more sense?
The flaw to Renegade of course, which is the core to the cheats, is that unlike most other games, Renegade lets the CLIENT decide hit locations, damage, RoF, etc. Vs others which say, "ok, the client fired their pistol along this trajectory. Did they hit something? How much damage did they do to that target if so. Report findings to clients".
My only concern, is that there will be alot more teams of people ripping apart the hard work of your small team, and undoing what you have done. Can you keep up writing fixes / completely rewriting the protocol to counter them once they have created their OWN complete anti-RenGuard client? If not, consider the server-side only method, and solve it once and for all, with the only version changes being to fix bugs, and not complete rewrites which will really piss admins off (if it takes this long for the initial, how long after the cheaters create their own client to counter it will your rewrite take to do?).
- v00d00
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ELiT3FLyR | ill say this again to all the TT people actually working on the patch. all you have to do is fix the bugs in the game. This is your role. dont get involved in a pointfix debate that you can never win (spoony has never managed to win one and hes a decent player) nor bother suggesting solutions for the faults in pointfix. just fix the damn bugs and you will all be remmebered as renegade heroes.
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[Updated on: Sun, 19 April 2009 12:52] Report message to a moderator
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Re: If you are not Muslim you should be raped and killed [message #381553 is a reply to message #380603] |
Mon, 20 April 2009 14:52 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915 Registered: January 2006
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Pyr0man1c wrote on Thu, 16 April 2009 13:37 | Almost all of these people are wrong, because they have been corrupt, and brainwashed to believe wrong things
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Indeed. Islam is almost certainly wrong (at least, not inspired by a god... or if so, inspired by an appalling one who doesn't deserve our respect, let alone our obedience), and it is usually spread by brainwashing.
Though I'm not sure that's what you meant.
Pyr0man1c wrote on Thu, 16 April 2009 13:37 | and for a start suiciding is not allowed in Islam
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That's actually more complicated than it seems. Islam may oppose suicide, but it also makes incredible promises of reward to those who die in battle (the whole 72-virgins business... I've discussed the absurdity and immorality of that in another thread, perhaps I can copy-paste that if you like). This, of course, is why so many Muslims specifically choose a weapon which ensures that, in 'battle' (bit of a euphemism there), the Muslim will die.
Pyr0man1c wrote on Thu, 16 April 2009 13:37 | and neither is killing innocents.
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Depends on your definition of 'innocent'. Islam specifically instructs the death penalty for such things as homosexuality, apostasy, and being Jewish. Are these crimes in your eyes? If so, you presumably don't believe in freedom of religion (Islam absolutely does not), nor the freedom to enjoy one's personal life with a consenting person if one happens to be gay (either by nature or by the will of Allah)
Pyr0man1c wrote on Thu, 16 April 2009 13:37 | A lot of these people who were brainwashed were probably depressed or something, and easy to brainwash into doing these terrible things.
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Being depressed might help, although I would argue that the real problem is Islam's iron grip on education. Even in Britain in my primary and secondary schools, which were supposedly secular (i.e. not outwardly Christian), Christian daily prayer was compulsory and no religious education included the disclaimer "by the way, kids, there's no proof for any of this, there are much better explanations available, and an enormous amount of blood has been spilled over it all". This in Britain in this day and age.
Imagine how bad things must be in an Islamic country. So yes, brainwashing.
Pyr0man1c wrote | And what religion are you?
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Loaded question. "Do you have a religion?" is a better question, I feel.
Ma1kel wrote | Then I'm gonna point that the completely unrelated fact that there were no car bombing every day before the occupation.
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Not unrelated at all, but I'll get to that when I reply to the other guy.
Ma1kel wrote | Because Saddam was secular and repressed every kind of terrorism so their was no ability to kill all the members of the other sect. So the only reason they didn't kill each other like animals is because they couldn't.
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Saddam was absolutely not secular. He didn't have sharia, but calling him secular on that basis is like calling Hitler peaceful because his death toll was lower than Stalin's.
Ma1kel wrote | Even Einstein thinks the idea that the brain survives death is ridiculous. Although he's a Jew so he is a greedy inferior son of a bitch according to the Koran.
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Einstein being Jewish is a common misconception. He openly stated that he was not religious, did not believe in a 'god'.
archerman wrote | and to the people who thinks its the muslims who are killing the civilians in iraq: innocent 100 civilians werent being killed in a car explosion every day before the occupation.
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Ah, now we come to it. I'm not sure why Ma1kel called this fact 'unrelated', but he's not quite as far off the mark as you are.
It is true that the sectarian violence in Iraq was not really going on before the invasion. The key word there is 'sectarian', look it up if you aren't familiar with it. The violence is predominantly Sunni vs Shia, a fight which has been going on for over a thousand years, albeit not necessarily in that particular space and time. It started in Iraq specifically because some Sunnis chose to start it. They started a campaign of violence against Shia targets. The main idea, other than the general goal of killing 'heretics', was to provoke the Shias into fighting back, which would draw Sunni Muslims into groups like al-queda to protect themselves. Basically a recruiting tool.
And once sectarian violence starts, it tends to spiral pretty damn quickly and is extremely difficult to stop.
American and British troops are not really the targets; they're just in the way (because they're risking their lives to stop Muslims killing civilians). The general gist of the violence is Sunnis killing Shia and Shias killing Sunnis, both for the main reason that "they're killing us".
By the way, I was quite disappointed that you didn't respond to my last post in your direction, which was this one:
Spoony wrote on Thu, 02 October 2008 06:03 |
archerman wrote on Tue, 30 September 2008 16:20 | Do you believe in the death penalty?
according to islam, (there are many aspects to discuss this but i will tell you what i think) God gives you life, and only God can take it away. so, i support every kind of punishment, but not death penalty.
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according to islam? stop me if I'm wrong, but the qur'an and hadith specifically instruct the death penalty for apostasy, homosexuality and Judaism, none of which are even crimes by any sane definition.
archerman wrote on Tue, 30 September 2008 16:20 | premarital sex is exteremly forbidden is islam, to protect the family. its also the second reason of why europe is getting older: "family" has been losing its importance since 70's. but anyway, everyone is free to do what they want.
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not under sharia they're not, and not when a poor helpless girl forcibly suffers islamic circumcision (if there is anything more sickening than this that goes on in the current day and age, it's news to me)
archerman wrote on Tue, 30 September 2008 16:20 | Do you think same sex marriage should be legalized?
we shouldnt do it just because alligators are doing it (u heard it right). its another thing that harms the idea of family. its against the nature of man.
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presumably this is about homosexuality itself, not homosexual marriages. "against the nature of man"? doesn't this rather contradict the idea of intelligent design? if you grant that sexuality is not actually a choice, and if you also happen to believe that we were created from a clot of blood by allah, you can't really argue that it's "against the nature of man"
archerman wrote on Tue, 30 September 2008 16:20 | Are you afraid others will judge you from reading some of your answers?
screw the others, im an individual of my own. but i can discuss any of my ideas civilly anywhere, anytime.
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It's rare to find a Muslim who will.
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Re: If you are not Muslim you should be raped and killed [message #381809 is a reply to message #377956] |
Tue, 21 April 2009 18:32 |
Muad Dib15
Messages: 839 Registered: July 2007 Location: behind a computer screen,...
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Spoony wrote on Mon, 30 March 2009 02:45 | the West trains muslims to strap explosives to a child with down's syndrome and then force her to walk into a crowded marketplace full of civilians, eh?
as for killing thousands of people, you do know that the staggering majority of deaths in Iraq are Muslims killing civilians, surely? American and British troops risking their lives trying to prevent it? of course there is legitimate debate as to whether we should've gone in in the first place, as with so much of Western foreign policy, but none of that invalidates criticism of Islam and the endless misery it is responsible for.
as for Anjem Choudary, what's strange is he apparently used to be a drinker and drug user in his youth, before he found Islam. he denies that past (although photos seem to prove otherwise), but I'm not sure why - he seems to've been a far better person before Islam corrupted him into a dangerous, delusional bigot.
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No, not muslims in general. Muslim extremists killing other muslims. Most muslims abhor the way the things being done by extremists "IN THE NAME OF ALLAH!!!"
just clearing things up here.
The manliest post on the internet
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Re: If you are not Muslim you should be raped and killed [message #381866 is a reply to message #381809] |
Wed, 22 April 2009 03:11 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915 Registered: January 2006
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Muad Dib15 wrote on Tue, 21 April 2009 20:32 | No, not muslims in general. Muslim extremists killing other muslims. Most muslims abhor the way the things being done by extremists "IN THE NAME OF ALLAH!!!"
just clearing things up here.
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This statement, when compared to the post you're replying to, doesn't make sense.
Quote: | as for killing thousands of people, you do know that the staggering majority of deaths in Iraq are Muslims killing civilians, surely?
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You don't see me saying "muslims in general"; you just see me pointing out the fact that the vast majority of the murders being committed in Iraq are committed not by American or British troops, but by Muslims. This is not the same as saying "all Muslims are murdering bastards"; certainly many people who claim to be Muslims don't actually do what Islam commands them to do, and what the "perfect man" Mohammed did. But then, I would argue that this is not really a case of the murdering ones being "extremists", more a case of the peaceful ones not really being Muslims, either through really understanding Islam or their human conscience rebelling against it. Either way, Mohammed would have almost certainly killed them for that.
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Re: If you are not Muslim you should be raped and killed [message #382093 is a reply to message #382076] |
Thu, 23 April 2009 07:35 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915 Registered: January 2006
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archerman wrote on Thu, 23 April 2009 04:06 | its obvious that almost none of you have any knowledge about religion, sociology, or whatever it takes to discuss such a topic. what a community.
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Am I among the "almost none", because it seems that for the second time in a row you're unable to refute anything I say on the subject.
Judging by some of your posts I would claim that I know more about Islam than you seem to, which is precisely why I criticise it.
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Re: If you are not Muslim you should be raped and killed [message #382197 is a reply to message #382093] |
Thu, 23 April 2009 16:05 |
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archerman
Messages: 348 Registered: May 2007 Location: Istanbul / Turkey
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Spoony wrote on Thu, 23 April 2009 17:35 |
archerman wrote on Thu, 23 April 2009 04:06 | its obvious that almost none of you have any knowledge about religion, sociology, or whatever it takes to discuss such a topic. what a community.
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Am I among the "almost none", because it seems that for the second time in a row you're unable to refute anything I say on the subject.
Judging by some of your posts I would claim that I know more about Islam than you seem to, which is precisely why I criticise it.
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i can make you stfu face to face in 30 sec in Turkish on this subject. i dare you. go learn some Turkish then come back.
so tell us what do you know about islam, like what fake translations your ideas are based on.
sorry for my English
[Updated on: Thu, 23 April 2009 16:09] Report message to a moderator
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Re: If you are not Muslim you should be raped and killed [message #382231 is a reply to message #382197] |
Thu, 23 April 2009 19:03 |
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u6795
Messages: 1261 Registered: March 2006 Location: Maryland
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General (1 Star) |
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archerman wrote on Thu, 23 April 2009 19:05 |
Spoony wrote on Thu, 23 April 2009 17:35 |
archerman wrote on Thu, 23 April 2009 04:06 | its obvious that almost none of you have any knowledge about religion, sociology, or whatever it takes to discuss such a topic. what a community.
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Am I among the "almost none", because it seems that for the second time in a row you're unable to refute anything I say on the subject.
Judging by some of your posts I would claim that I know more about Islam than you seem to, which is precisely why I criticise it.
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i can make you stfu face to face in 30 sec in Turkish on this subject. i dare you. go learn some Turkish then come back.
so tell us what do you know about islam, like what fake translations your ideas are based on.
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Oooh, so Islam's brutality is the fault of TRANSLATION! I should have known. Only in English can a religion have such evil connotations.
yeah
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Re: If you are not Muslim you should be raped and killed [message #382232 is a reply to message #336897] |
Thu, 23 April 2009 19:25 |
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Ryan3k
Messages: 363 Registered: September 2004 Location: USA
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Muad Dib15 wrote on Sun, 22 June 2008 18:30 |
HeavyX101 wrote on Thu, 19 June 2008 19:10 | Well, I'm a muslim. And i dont think that the non-belivers of islam should get punnished. And i dont think that allah would of say that.
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If you are a muslim, then you should stop being one right now since you obviouly don't know the qur'an.
[40.70]Those who reject the Book and that with which We have sent Our Apostle; but they shall soon come to know,
[40.71] When the fetters and the chains shall be on their necks; they shall be dragged
[40.72] Into boiling water, then in the fire shall they be burned;
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/koran/koran-idx?type=DIV0&byte=733153
@Spoony: Before you spout blatent bullshit like that, consider that no one has found proof that God/Allah does or doesn't exist or that Muhammed couldn't write.
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the quran has a lot of contradictions; while you can find violent passages like that easily, you can also find passages like the one that says that murdering someone is equivalent to murdering the entire population of the world (in the eyes of 'allah')
moral of the story - it's all bullshit
A Path Beyond
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Re: If you are not Muslim you should be raped and killed [message #382344 is a reply to message #382197] |
Fri, 24 April 2009 09:28 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915 Registered: January 2006
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Ryan3k wrote | the quran has a lot of contradictions; while you can find violent passages like that easily, you can also find passages like the one that says that murdering someone is equivalent to murdering the entire population of the world (in the eyes of 'allah')
moral of the story - it's all bullshit
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the thing is, the prophet muhammed originally tried spreading his religion in the same sort of way that jesus is alleged to've done, i.e. non-violent preaching. for a few years, islam was a religion of peace (or at least, not one of violence) - trouble is, it didn't work - hardly anyone gave a shit, so he tried a different method, i.e. force.
there are some "peaceful" statements in the qur'an and hadith, most of which come from his early "career" before he re-invented himself as a murderous, slave-taking warlord. there are many people who like to use these statements to prove that islam is a "religion of peace", which is about as strong a case as saying Hitler was a peaceful man because he used to be a painter. sure, he was, but not a particularly successful one and if any objective historian was asked to make a list of the ten most important facts of Hitler's life, painting would probably not be there.
archerman wrote on Thu, 23 April 2009 18:05 | i can make you stfu face to face in 30 sec in Turkish on this subject.
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Judging by your abject failure to refute a single thing I've said in English, I find that rather difficult to believe. Your statement also sounds eerily like a threat.
archerman wrote on Thu, 23 April 2009 18:05 | go learn some Turkish then come back.
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Come back where, to an English-speaking forum? I never claimed I could speak Turkish, nor do I hang around places where speaking Turkish is the norm. If the language barrier is why you're utterly failing to refute a single thing I've said (I disagree - I think it's more a case that you don't know your religion particularly well), why don't you try improving your English instead of demanding I learn Turkish?
archerman wrote on Thu, 23 April 2009 18:05 | so tell us what do you know about islam, like what fake translations your ideas are based on.
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I've already told you some things I know about Islam. Three times in a row now you've demonstrated your inability to argue against them.
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Re: If you are not Muslim you should be raped and killed [message #382356 is a reply to message #382344] |
Fri, 24 April 2009 10:25 |
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archerman
Messages: 348 Registered: May 2007 Location: Istanbul / Turkey
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Spoony wrote on Fri, 24 April 2009 19:28 |
Ryan3k wrote | the quran has a lot of contradictions; while you can find violent passages like that easily, you can also find passages like the one that says that murdering someone is equivalent to murdering the entire population of the world (in the eyes of 'allah')
moral of the story - it's all bullshit
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the thing is, the prophet muhammed originally tried spreading his religion in the same sort of way that jesus is alleged to've done, i.e. non-violent preaching. for a few years, islam was a religion of peace (or at least, not one of violence) - trouble is, it didn't work - hardly anyone gave a shit, so he tried a different method, i.e. force.
there are some "peaceful" statements in the qur'an and hadith, most of which come from his early "career" before he re-invented himself as a murderous, slave-taking warlord. there are many people who like to use these statements to prove that islam is a "religion of peace", which is about as strong a case as saying Hitler was a peaceful man because he used to be a painter. sure, he was, but not a particularly successful one and if any objective historian was asked to make a list of the ten most important facts of Hitler's life, painting would probably not be there.
archerman wrote on Thu, 23 April 2009 18:05 | i can make you stfu face to face in 30 sec in Turkish on this subject.
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Judging by your abject failure to refute a single thing I've said in English, I find that rather difficult to believe. Your statement also sounds eerily like a threat.
archerman wrote on Thu, 23 April 2009 18:05 | go learn some Turkish then come back.
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Come back where, to an English-speaking forum? I never claimed I could speak Turkish, nor do I hang around places where speaking Turkish is the norm. If the language barrier is why you're utterly failing to refute a single thing I've said (I disagree - I think it's more a case that you don't know your religion particularly well), why don't you try improving your English instead of demanding I learn Turkish?
archerman wrote on Thu, 23 April 2009 18:05 | so tell us what do you know about islam, like what fake translations your ideas are based on.
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I've already told you some things I know about Islam. Three times in a row now you've demonstrated your inability to argue against them.
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Toggle SpoilerSpoony wrote on Sun, 22 June 2008 23:28 | well, the qu'ran does. thankfully it wasn't written by allah or by mohammed, since allah/god/whatever either doesn't exist or doesn't give a shit about us, and mohammed couldn't read or write.
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hz. muhammed okur-yazar degildi; ancak cebrail ona ayetleri okurdu, o da ezberlerdi (bazen yanındakilerle beraber), daha sonra da katiplerce bunlar yazılırdı.
kur'an-ı kerim,diğer ilahi kitaplarin aksine, dogrudan dogruya allah'in sözleridir.
Spoony wrote on Tue, 24 June 2008 12:03 | oh, he could write despite not being able to read, could he? do you even know anything about Muhammed?
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sen hz. muhammed hakkinda ne biliyorsun söyle de ögrenelim.
Spoony wrote on Tue, 24 June 2008 12:04 | perhaps those verses, but the Qu'ran and the Hadith are riddled with direct instructions to carry out violence against unbelievers, Jews, homosexuals etc. it makes Mein Kampf look downright friendly.
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escinseller hakkinda bir sey diyemem; ancak yahudiler ve inanmayanlar zaten kur'an'da allah'a karsi geldikleri için yer bulmuslardir. kur'an sadece bu isleri yapanlara uymamayı ögütler. kaldi ki kul bir yaklasirsa allah on yaklasir. bu da kur'an'da defalarca belirtilmistir. surasi kesindir ki "senin dinin bana, benim dinim bana"dir. inanmayanlara eziyet kesinlikle yasaklanmistir.
Spoony wrote on Wed, 11 February 2009 11:25 | I do concede that, actually... the folly is when people think that says anything good about their religion, when if anything it's in spite of their religion.
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concede? gerçekler acidir, kabulleneceksin.
Spoony wrote on Mon, 30 March 2009 10:45 | the West trains muslims to strap explosives to a child with down's syndrome and then force her to walk into a crowded marketplace full of civilians, eh?
as for killing thousands of people, you do know that the staggering majority of deaths in Iraq are Muslims killing civilians, surely? American and British troops risking their lives trying to prevent it? of course there is legitimate debate as to whether we should've gone in in the first place, as with so much of Western foreign policy, but none of that invalidates criticism of Islam and the endless misery it is responsible for.
as for Anjem Choudary, what's strange is he apparently used to be a drinker and drug user in his youth, before he found Islam. he denies that past (although photos seem to prove otherwise), but I'm not sure why - he seems to've been a far better person before Islam corrupted him into a dangerous, delusional bigot.
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amerika irak'a girmeden fasist de olsa bir düzen vardi; kimse kimseyi belirttigin sekilde öldürmüyordu. ancak saddam'in devrilmesiyle meydana gelen otorite boslugu, mezhep ayriliklari (ki mezhep dediklerinin kökenleri birdir), amerika'nin orayi kasimasina zemin hazirlamistir. kasimaktan kasit irak'i parçalamak, kürtlere özerklik vermek, petrolü kendilerine ayirmaktir.
hedef her zamanki gibi türkiye'dir.
sakin ola bana oradaki yabanci askerleri savunayım deme. binlerce yillik topraklardaki insanlara hele hiç laf etme.
elin herifi müslüman olduktan sonra sapittiysa diğer 1.5 milyar kisi ne yapsın?
Spoony wrote on Tue, 21 April 2009 00:52 |
Pyr0man1c wrote on Thu, 16 April 2009 13:37 | Almost all of these people are wrong, because they have been corrupt, and brainwashed to believe wrong things
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Indeed. Islam is almost certainly wrong (at least, not inspired by a god... or if so, inspired by an appalling one who doesn't deserve our respect, let alone our obedience), and it is usually spread by brainwashing.
Though I'm not sure that's what you meant.
Pyr0man1c wrote on Thu, 16 April 2009 13:37 | and for a start suiciding is not allowed in Islam
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That's actually more complicated than it seems. Islam may oppose suicide, but it also makes incredible promises of reward to those who die in battle (the whole 72-virgins business... I've discussed the absurdity and immorality of that in another thread, perhaps I can copy-paste that if you like). This, of course, is why so many Muslims specifically choose a weapon which ensures that, in 'battle' (bit of a euphemism there), the Muslim will die.
Pyr0man1c wrote on Thu, 16 April 2009 13:37 | and neither is killing innocents.
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Depends on your definition of 'innocent'. Islam specifically instructs the death penalty for such things as homosexuality, apostasy, and being Jewish. Are these crimes in your eyes? If so, you presumably don't believe in freedom of religion (Islam absolutely does not), nor the freedom to enjoy one's personal life with a consenting person if one happens to be gay (either by nature or by the will of Allah)
Pyr0man1c wrote on Thu, 16 April 2009 13:37 | A lot of these people who were brainwashed were probably depressed or something, and easy to brainwash into doing these terrible things.
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Being depressed might help, although I would argue that the real problem is Islam's iron grip on education. Even in Britain in my primary and secondary schools, which were supposedly secular (i.e. not outwardly Christian), Christian daily prayer was compulsory and no religious education included the disclaimer "by the way, kids, there's no proof for any of this, there are much better explanations available, and an enormous amount of blood has been spilled over it all". This in Britain in this day and age.
Imagine how bad things must be in an Islamic country. So yes, brainwashing.
Pyr0man1c wrote | And what religion are you?
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Loaded question. "Do you have a religion?" is a better question, I feel.
Ma1kel wrote | Then I'm gonna point that the completely unrelated fact that there were no car bombing every day before the occupation.
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Not unrelated at all, but I'll get to that when I reply to the other guy.
Ma1kel wrote | Because Saddam was secular and repressed every kind of terrorism so their was no ability to kill all the members of the other sect. So the only reason they didn't kill each other like animals is because they couldn't.
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Saddam was absolutely not secular. He didn't have sharia, but calling him secular on that basis is like calling Hitler peaceful because his death toll was lower than Stalin's.
Ma1kel wrote | Even Einstein thinks the idea that the brain survives death is ridiculous. Although he's a Jew so he is a greedy inferior son of a bitch according to the Koran.
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Einstein being Jewish is a common misconception. He openly stated that he was not religious, did not believe in a 'god'.
archerman wrote | and to the people who thinks its the muslims who are killing the civilians in iraq: innocent 100 civilians werent being killed in a car explosion every day before the occupation.
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Ah, now we come to it. I'm not sure why Ma1kel called this fact 'unrelated', but he's not quite as far off the mark as you are.
It is true that the sectarian violence in Iraq was not really going on before the invasion. The key word there is 'sectarian', look it up if you aren't familiar with it. The violence is predominantly Sunni vs Shia, a fight which has been going on for over a thousand years, albeit not necessarily in that particular space and time. It started in Iraq specifically because some Sunnis chose to start it. They started a campaign of violence against Shia targets. The main idea, other than the general goal of killing 'heretics', was to provoke the Shias into fighting back, which would draw Sunni Muslims into groups like al-queda to protect themselves. Basically a recruiting tool.
And once sectarian violence starts, it tends to spiral pretty damn quickly and is extremely difficult to stop.
American and British troops are not really the targets; they're just in the way (because they're risking their lives to stop Muslims killing civilians). The general gist of the violence is Sunnis killing Shia and Shias killing Sunnis, both for the main reason that "they're killing us".
By the way, I was quite disappointed that you didn't respond to my last post in your direction, which was this one:
Spoony wrote on Thu, 02 October 2008 06:03 |
archerman wrote on Tue, 30 September 2008 16:20 | Do you believe in the death penalty?
according to islam, (there are many aspects to discuss this but i will tell you what i think) God gives you life, and only God can take it away. so, i support every kind of punishment, but not death penalty.
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according to islam? stop me if I'm wrong, but the qur'an and hadith specifically instruct the death penalty for apostasy, homosexuality and Judaism, none of which are even crimes by any sane definition.
archerman wrote on Tue, 30 September 2008 16:20 | premarital sex is exteremly forbidden is islam, to protect the family. its also the second reason of why europe is getting older: "family" has been losing its importance since 70's. but anyway, everyone is free to do what they want.
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not under sharia they're not, and not when a poor helpless girl forcibly suffers islamic circumcision (if there is anything more sickening than this that goes on in the current day and age, it's news to me)
archerman wrote on Tue, 30 September 2008 16:20 | Do you think same sex marriage should be legalized?
we shouldnt do it just because alligators are doing it (u heard it right). its another thing that harms the idea of family. its against the nature of man.
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presumably this is about homosexuality itself, not homosexual marriages. "against the nature of man"? doesn't this rather contradict the idea of intelligent design? if you grant that sexuality is not actually a choice, and if you also happen to believe that we were created from a clot of blood by allah, you can't really argue that it's "against the nature of man"
archerman wrote on Tue, 30 September 2008 16:20 | Are you afraid others will judge you from reading some of your answers?
screw the others, im an individual of my own. but i can discuss any of my ideas civilly anywhere, anytime.
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It's rare to find a Muslim who will.
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yazilanlari gözlerinle okumani öneririm. söyledigin seylerin gerçek islam'la alakasi yok. bunca zirvaligi yazmaya vakit ayiracagina arapça ögrenip kur'an'i oku.
Spoony wrote on Wed, 22 April 2009 13:11 | You don't see me saying "muslims in general"; you just see me pointing out the fact that the vast majority of the murders being committed in Iraq are committed not by American or British troops, but by Muslims. This is not the same as saying "all Muslims are murdering bastards"; certainly many people who claim to be Muslims don't actually do what Islam commands them to do, and what the "perfect man" Mohammed did. But then, I would argue that this is not really a case of the murdering ones being "extremists", more a case of the peaceful ones not really being Muslims, either through really understanding Islam or their human conscience rebelling against it. Either way, Mohammed would have almost certainly killed them for that.
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bu sanki ikinci dünya savasinda savasan alman erlerini katillikle suçlamak gibi bir sey. mantikli ol, mantikli konus, canimi al.
sonuç olarak, yazdigin bütün bu zirvalik klasik tümevarim yaklasimi. bu yüzdendir ki bir ayaginiz çukurda. batacaksiniz zaten az kaldi, sikin disinizi. bu yazdiklarim devede kulaktir. fazlasi için zırvalamaya devam et.
go get the translation of the text above.
Spoony wrote on Fri, 24 April 2009 19:28 |
I've already told you some things I know about Islam. Three times in a row now you've demonstrated your inability to argue against them.
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these are not what you know, these are what you want to believe. theres not a single thing you know about islam. you arent even muslim and probably never lived in an islamic community for some time.
the only inability i have is my lack of english. you are the one with the inability, its obvious. other than that i definetely have more knowledge about islam, muslims and religion than you have.
sorry for my English
[Updated on: Fri, 24 April 2009 10:37] Report message to a moderator
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Re: If you are not Muslim you should be raped and killed [message #382359 is a reply to message #324866] |
Fri, 24 April 2009 11:17 |
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nikki6ixx
Messages: 2545 Registered: August 2007
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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You're not helping your case by using your own language. You're on a forum that speaks English. If Spoony, or anyone else wanted to debate Islam on a Turkish speaking forum, they'd take the time to learn the language out of politeness.
Using your own langauge to defend yourself in a debate is rude, and it only cheapens your argument because we aren't entirely sure what you're saying is actually composed of real words, or contains any information that lends itself to the argument.
Plus, as someone who is speaking for the other side, resorting to sayings like 'stfu' , and your overall bitter attitude is not doing you any favours either.
Renegade:
Aircraftkiller wrote on Fri, 10 January 2014 16:56 | The only game where everyone competes to be an e-janitor.
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[Updated on: Fri, 24 April 2009 11:21] Report message to a moderator
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Re: If you are not Muslim you should be raped and killed [message #382432 is a reply to message #382356] |
Fri, 24 April 2009 19:35 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915 Registered: January 2006
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
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I'll just repeat what I said earlier.
Spoony wrote | Come back where, to an English-speaking forum? I never claimed I could speak Turkish, nor do I hang around places where speaking Turkish is the norm. If the language barrier is why you're utterly failing to refute a single thing I've said (I disagree - I think it's more a case that you don't know your religion particularly well), why don't you try improving your English instead of demanding I learn Turkish?
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Furthermore, if you persist in your belief that "fake translations" are the reason I hold any of the views on Islam I have expressed, why do you trust me to translate your responses? Surely you ought to do it, to lower the risk of more "fake" translations?
And, for the slightly more practical reason that you have do have a reasonable grasp of English, whereas I know no Turkish at all, and never said I did?
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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