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| Ban on white men becoming firefighters [message #313738] |
Sat, 26 January 2008 01:20  |
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Spoony
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White men have been banned from fire brigade recruitment sessions because bosses want to hit their diversity targets.
Four out of five "open" days held by Avon Fire Service were restricted to women and ethnic minorities.
Avon's bosses insist their ban on white men is simply "positive action".
Where do we start here?
What a sad detour our society has taken. If the ban was on black men becoming firefighters everyone would see it for what it was: racism.
What's even sadder is how condescending this must seem to non-white firefighters who actually got the job based on their skills and experience.
Worst of all, when you have a job which involves saving the lives of the public, and responsibility for your crewmates, the idea of selecting the firefighters based on anything other than their suitability is insane.
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| Re: Ban on white men becoming firefighters [message #313836 is a reply to message #313738] |
Sat, 26 January 2008 13:16  |
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nikki6ixx
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I'm very happy we don't have a policy like this my way... at least not yet.
If I have to be saved from a burning building, while I am choking on ash, and my back is beginning to melt, the last thing that will be on my mind will be 'affirmative action' .
Plus, I have no problem with promoting diversity, but this involves the safety of citizens; the best candidates might be left out, and that could mean the difference between saving a life, and losing it. Is the guy who was picked solely on race going to spend the extra minute in a firefight, and risk his own hide to save another, or will he bow out?
Some people will also be miffed about women being recruited, but I will admit that the girls are more than capable of doing the job. However, once again, hiring purely on sex is discriminatory.
When I was a young'un, I was taught about Equality: that everyone has an equal opportunity, and their skin, race, and sex have no bearing. I subscribe to that idea, but this policy flies right in the face of Equality.
This is exactly what happens when our society becomes too politically correct. Luckily for me, being 'PC' is not on my agenda, and although I've been called a racist, a sexist, and a 'misogynistic pig' plenty of times in my life, I will continue to point out the PC bullshit that is neutering our society.
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| Re: Ban on white men becoming firefighters [message #313886 is a reply to message #313738] |
Sat, 26 January 2008 16:56 |
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[NE]Fobby[GEN]
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| Spoony wrote on Sat, 26 January 2008 03:20 |
White men have been banned from fire brigade recruitment sessions because bosses want to hit their diversity targets.
Four out of five "open" days held by Avon Fire Service were restricted to women and ethnic minorities.
Avon's bosses insist their ban on white men is simply "positive action".
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| Re: Ban on white men becoming firefighters [message #313975 is a reply to message #313738] |
Sun, 27 January 2008 01:38 |
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Oh, don't tell me you actually believe that drivel. You cannot possibly be serious.
It doesn't matter if they're trying to fill a diversity ratio. The fact of the matter that there should be no ratio. It should be all about the equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome. If a woman or minority is the perfect candidate for the job, then hire them. If not, don't make it so that one has to be hired to fill some bullshit quota.
Even if it's not "racism", it's prejudice. It's discriminating against a specific group (in this case, white males). It should not be tolerated.
I understand the whole premise of being fair and not wanting race to play a factor, but FORCING race to be a factor isn't the way to do it.
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| Re: Ban on white men becoming firefighters [message #313977 is a reply to message #313919] |
Sun, 27 January 2008 01:49 |
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Blazer
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| Starbuzz [ELITE |
wrote on Sat, 26 January 2008 19:43]| Surth wrote on Sat, 26 January 2008 06:38 |
People totally dont get the concept of immigrating today. Instead of IMMIGRATING the Immigrants into the society, they let them build up their own. People come to this state, which means they accept the rules of THIS state. Why do they get their own rules? :/
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I completely agree with you.
It's amazingly ridiculous to see immigrants coming to Western countries and then like fucking selfish idiots, setting up their own communities and mimicking the cultures they just so desperately wanted to leave! They segregate themselves all the while greedily enjoying the milk and honey and opportunites the land has given them.
Deep inside they are full of criticsm for the country they live in. I know this.
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I agree with both of you. In the time I have lived in Arizona, I have gotten a first hand look at illegal immigration, and it's sad that most of your words are dead on.
I believe that people have a right to hold onto their heritage, and they should. BUT this can be done without isolating yourself. Theres no reason you cannot hold onto your culture and beliefs without scorning the place where you currently live.
Here in Arizona, illegal immigration is obviously a big deal. Don't get me wrong, I have *NO* problem with Mexican people. In fact, I have *NO* problem with *any* race of people. I like or dislike persons individually based upon their personality and actions, not their race.
Anyhow I have seen how lots of Mexicans will come here (and other states), and on the one hand they are SO glad to have "escaped" from the apparent shithole that mexico is, and are now in a land of great opportunity...it's like having a new lease on life, you would think they would gladly embrace all america has to offer.
But yet, I mostly see them set up their own communities and trying to recreate mexico here in the US. They have total disregard for US law, and pretty much think of americans as "fat gringos" that they want to take advantage of.
Again, let me state that I do not dislike Mexican people in any way, and I'm not saying that they are all this way. There are plenty of Mexicans who come to the US properly, and legally, and abide by our laws and contribute to society. Sadly though they are not in the majority. Just last week an illegal immigrant ran over and killed a border guard with his Hummer, and then retreated back to Mexico.
When people legally come to a new country and acclimate themselves to their new environment, that's immigration.
When people illegally come to a new country to plunder its resouces, meanwhile full of disdain for its laws, sovereignty, and citizens, while setting up an isolated "camp" of their own people...that is an invasion.
I'd say reward the immigrants who come here legally, and the illegal ones should be treated harshly. We are way too soft on them, which is why they are flooding in like ants after a rain shower. It's sad that we have some laws that are so hardcore, like going to prison for downloading an MP3, yet some guy can climb over the fence from Mexico, steal a US citizens social security number, leech off of resources meant for legal citizens, break the law, etc, and all that happens if he gets caught is "deported", which means maybe 2 days before he climbs the fence and comes right back again.
[Updated on: Sun, 27 January 2008 02:02] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Ban on white men becoming firefighters [message #313979 is a reply to message #313974] |
Sun, 27 January 2008 02:00 |
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Spoony
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| Blazer wrote on Sun, 27 January 2008 02:32 |
I don't think it's actual racism, at least by most peoples definition. There are laws that say their workforce has to be X percent minorities. They apparently were majorly not hitting the numbers and had too many white guys, so they had to temporarily stop hiring any more until the ratio would allow it.
I think that is a better solution than firing some of the existing employees just to shuffle the race ratio around.
Same goes if they had to temporarily ban hiring black men. "Racism" has nothing to do with it. It's simple math and them following the law of keeping the proper ratio of minorities in their workforce.
Of course like I said, people will still say its "racism" just because race is a factor. IMO "racism" is due to some sort of discrimination based hatred or dislike, not because of a law that is meant to *protect* minorities against those that may discriminate by not hiring them.
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Turning somebody down from a job based on their skin colour is racism.
You can't excuse it by saying we need 15% ethnic minority employees or w/e. Simple question: Why do we need a "proper ratio of minorities" in any particular job? Nobody has ever, ever answered that question successfully.
| Blazer wrote on Sun, 27 January 2008 02:32 |
IMO "racism" is due to some sort of discrimination based hatred or dislike, not because of a law that is meant to *protect* minorities against those that may discriminate by not hiring them.
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You know the saying two wrongs don't make a right? You're basically saying "one almost certainly fictional wrong excuses a genuine wrong".
Aside from that, white people are fast becoming the minority in many English cities.
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| Re: Ban on white men becoming firefighters [message #313980 is a reply to message #313975] |
Sun, 27 January 2008 02:00 |
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Blazer
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| cheesesoda wrote on Sun, 27 January 2008 01:38 |
It doesn't matter if they're trying to fill a diversity ratio. The fact of the matter that there should be no ratio...
I understand the whole premise of being fair and not wanting race to play a factor, but FORCING race to be a factor isn't the way to do it.
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Hey, I agree with you that it sucks that we have to have laws to force equal rights, but let's face it...the real world isn't like movies or star trek, where everyone gets along and are judged only upon their own merits. The human race as a whole is still in the dark ages, and nobody wants to admit how barbaric and prejudiced we still are.
We are TRYING though, which means that laws have been passed to FORCE racial diversity in the work place. These laws are to PROTECT the minorities, not discriminate against them. If not for the law, there would be nothing to stop them from hiring ALL white guys and no black guys, and next thing you know we are in the next civil war.
These guys are just following the LAW. Simple as that. I don't know why people have to try to stir the pot by crying racism, and let's not forget the other favorite-reverse racism!
Again, they were following the LAW. If the LAW says they must 4 black guys out of 10 people, and due to people quitting, getting promoted, whatever, they somehow ended up with 8 white guys out of 10 people, well guess what, THEY CANT HIRE ANY MORE WHITE GUYS FOR AWHILE, OR THEY GET SLAPPED WITH A BIGASS FINE (similar situation could apply if they had too many black employees-temp ban on hiring black guys).
It's as simple as that. It's not "racism", it's following the law. A law that was put in place, in an attempt to stop racism!
I would think if you were going to be angry about something, it should not be the company that is trying to follow the law, you should be angry about the law itself, or the human race in general for being a bunch of barbaric hate-mongers 
[Updated on: Sun, 27 January 2008 02:05] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Ban on white men becoming firefighters [message #313984 is a reply to message #313980] |
Sun, 27 January 2008 02:07 |
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Spoony
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| Blazer wrote on Sun, 27 January 2008 03:00 |
the real world isn't like movies or star trek, where everyone gets along and are judged only upon their own merits.
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Indeed not, and this thread is a good example.
| Blazer wrote on Sun, 27 January 2008 03:00 |
If not for the law, there would be nothing to stop them from hiring ALL white guys and no black guys
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So? If a company hires white people when there are MORE QUALIFIED black people, they'll suffer. And if you don't like the fact a company doesn't hire enough black people for your tastes, take your business somewhere else. No need for government intervention.
| Blazer wrote on Sun, 27 January 2008 03:00 |
and next thing you know we are in the next civil war.
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That's a little insane.
| Blazer wrote on Sun, 27 January 2008 03:00 |
It's as simple as that. It's not "racism", it's following the law.
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Yes, it is racism. Following a bullshit law does not stop it being racism.
| Blazer wrote on Sun, 27 January 2008 03:00 |
A law that was put in place, in an attempt to stop racism!
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A feeble attempt which has failed at every turn and vastly increased tensions in society.
| Blazer wrote on Sun, 27 January 2008 03:00 |
I would think if you were going to be angry about something, it should not be the company that is trying to follow the law, you should be angry about the law itself
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Yes.
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| Re: Ban on white men becoming firefighters [message #313990 is a reply to message #313988] |
Sun, 27 January 2008 02:37 |
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Spoony
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Paradoxically the law has forced them to.
They're a public service and they save lives. If they should be forced to hire based on something, the only thing that should be is suitability.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
[Updated on: Sun, 27 January 2008 03:04] Report message to a moderator |
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