Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » Election '08
| Re: Election '08 [message #308626 is a reply to message #308124] |
Mon, 07 January 2008 19:51   |
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nikki6ixx
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I've read that Ron Paul's policies may have been overly hyped up and amplified by the younger people around him. I'm against the idea of an isolationist United States, because that will literally give military, and economic enemies a free ticket to mess up the world even more, and with costly consequences.
Renegade:
| Aircraftkiller wrote on Fri, 10 January 2014 16:56 |
The only game where everyone competes to be an e-janitor.
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| Re: Election '08 [message #308640 is a reply to message #308639] |
Mon, 07 January 2008 20:15 |
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Dover
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| cheesesoda wrote on Mon, 07 January 2008 19:12 |
People need to learn that Ron Paul is NOT an Isolationist and DOES NOT promote Isolationism. Ron Paul is a non-Interventionist. He still wants America to be a part of the world economy and be friendly to all nations. He just doesn't want to intervene like we have in the Middle East over the past 30 years and longer.
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Good luck with that. That's me telling people that Hillary isn't a Communist and doesn't have sand in her vagina. Even though it's true, Americans believe what the TV tells them.
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
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| Re: Election '08 [message #308703 is a reply to message #308124] |
Tue, 08 January 2008 05:47 |
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Jecht
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I haven't been paying attention enough at the moment. To much going on for me. I'm going to have to try to catch some of the upcoming debates to make a decision. So far, Romney has appealed to me, but to be honest - It's still very much up in the air for who gets my vote. I know this much - voting for Hillary is an impossibility for me 
As for Ron Paul - I have no idea what he stands for. I'd go to his website to find out, but I'm really strapped for time at the moment with college starting up. In fact, I'm writing this post with only 5 minutes left before I leave for class. Has he been invited to debates with other candidates? Also, when are the next televised debates, does anyone know?
[Updated on: Tue, 08 January 2008 05:50] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Election '08 [message #309004 is a reply to message #308124] |
Wed, 09 January 2008 03:50 |
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Viking
Messages: 1692
Registered: July 2005
Location: Earth
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I am voteing for obama just because I know he will eventually get shot and it will result in epic lulz. 
QUOTES
"The Renegade community revolves around having something awesome, and not sharing it so you can be on top of the mountain." -Canadacdn
| Crimson wrote on Thu, 17 May 2007 05:22 |
| Memphis wrote on Tue, 15 May 2007 03:54 |
...fatally die to death...
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I don't know if you meant to do that, but triple redundancy for teh win. I LOL'ed.
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Awesome l337 people= Icedog90, Blazea58, Canadacdn, Crimson, jonwil
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| Re: Election '08 [message #309014 is a reply to message #309002] |
Wed, 09 January 2008 05:03 |
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| Jecht wrote on Wed, 09 January 2008 05:20 |
I've watched the August 5 debate in Iowa on youtube, and Ron Paul seems to be a liberal in Red clothing. He supports pulling the troops out...right now. That would do more harm than good at this point. Whether you're for, or against the war, that much has to be certain. I still have no idea who I'm voting for, but Huckabee, Thompson, Hunter, Guiliani, and Romney are probably who I'm deciding between on the Republican side. I still have to find time to look at the debates for the Dems.
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He's a L-I-B-E-R-T-A-R-I-A-N. There's nothing Democrat about him. In fact, he's a paleolibertarian, so he's somewhat of a conservative libertarian.
Libertarian Party | The King's Throne | The Soda Shop
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| Re: Election '08 [message #309018 is a reply to message #309014] |
Wed, 09 January 2008 06:15 |
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Spoony
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there is an argument that of all the Republican candidates, Ron Paul is the only true conservative.
calling him 'liberal' is not really true, although some of his policies certainly appeal to the liberal populace... and what's really funny is when die-hard republicans say that as if it were a bad thing.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: Election '08 [message #309206 is a reply to message #309014] |
Wed, 09 January 2008 13:25 |
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GoArmy44
Messages: 265
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Location: Oklahoma
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| cheesesoda wrote on Wed, 09 January 2008 06:03 |
| Jecht wrote on Wed, 09 January 2008 05:20 |
I've watched the August 5 debate in Iowa on youtube, and Ron Paul seems to be a liberal in Red clothing. He supports pulling the troops out...right now. That would do more harm than good at this point. Whether you're for, or against the war, that much has to be certain. I still have no idea who I'm voting for, but Huckabee, Thompson, Hunter, Guiliani, and Romney are probably who I'm deciding between on the Republican side. I still have to find time to look at the debates for the Dems.
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He's a L-I-B-E-R-T-A-R-I-A-N. There's nothing Democrat about him. In fact, he's a paleolibertarian, so he's somewhat of a conservative libertarian.
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I actually call him a paleoconservative but I think in hindsight that would be wrong, I should call him a constitutionalist. He is the most conservative of the Republicans...I mean what isn't conservative about not meddling in other people's countries? People who call him liberal really need to check him out, his views on the government's role sound nothing like the mainstream liberals of today.
I think Ron Paul is hurt by several factors not under his control(I won't go into his personal faults): 1. His supporters..while most of them are good small government supporters some are bat shit crazy with conspiracy theories. Every time I go on ronpaulforums.com I see several 9/11 conspiracy nuts who are probably the same guys who go to opponent's rallies(which are covered more by the media) and scream 9/11 truth over and over again. This doesn't help Ron Paul at all with the general populace...I mean the guy doesn't support any of the trash they are saying.
And 2: The smear job of the mainstream media...FoxNews especially. Its amazing how many times several of their conservative commentators say he thinks that the US is responsible for 9/11..it kinda makes me sick. Dismissing someone by saying they are a fanatic is ignorant, read into his positions, see what he stands for, and most importantly see what his record says!...you might just be surprised.
Reconcilia Rem Publicam!
[Updated on: Wed, 09 January 2008 13:28] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Election '08 [message #309384 is a reply to message #309382] |
Wed, 09 January 2008 18:15 |
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Dover
Messages: 2547
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| Sn1per74* wrote on Wed, 09 January 2008 17:13 |
| Dover wrote on Wed, 09 January 2008 19:08 |
| Sn1per74* wrote on Tue, 08 January 2008 19:31 |
| Dover wrote on Mon, 07 January 2008 21:15 |
| cheesesoda wrote on Mon, 07 January 2008 19:12 |
People need to learn that Ron Paul is NOT an Isolationist and DOES NOT promote Isolationism. Ron Paul is a non-Interventionist. He still wants America to be a part of the world economy and be friendly to all nations. He just doesn't want to intervene like we have in the Middle East over the past 30 years and longer.
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Good luck with that. That's me telling people that Hillary isn't a Communist and doesn't have sand in her vagina. Even though it's true, Americans believe what the TV tells them.
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AHAHAHA. Quote of the year! 
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I'm not sure if you understood me. I actually support Clinton.
Speaking of whom, she won the Primarys, along with McCain. Things are going my way it seems. 
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O. 
Even so it made me laugh.
PS: Hillary is loco. Nation wide health care is what communism does.
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Okay. I see nothing wrong with that.
You Americans have this silly misconception that Communism = BAD!!!!1!!11one11SHIFT11!1!
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
Remember kids the internet is serious business.
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| Re: Election '08 [message #309393 is a reply to message #309384] |
Wed, 09 January 2008 18:32 |
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GoArmy44
Messages: 265
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Location: Oklahoma
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| Dover wrote on Wed, 09 January 2008 20:15 |
| Sn1per74* wrote on Wed, 09 January 2008 17:13 |
| Dover wrote on Wed, 09 January 2008 19:08 |
| Sn1per74* wrote on Tue, 08 January 2008 19:31 |
| Dover wrote on Mon, 07 January 2008 21:15 |
| cheesesoda wrote on Mon, 07 January 2008 19:12 |
People need to learn that Ron Paul is NOT an Isolationist and DOES NOT promote Isolationism. Ron Paul is a non-Interventionist. He still wants America to be a part of the world economy and be friendly to all nations. He just doesn't want to intervene like we have in the Middle East over the past 30 years and longer.
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Good luck with that. That's me telling people that Hillary isn't a Communist and doesn't have sand in her vagina. Even though it's true, Americans believe what the TV tells them.
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AHAHAHA. Quote of the year!
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I'm not sure if you understood me. I actually support Clinton.
Speaking of whom, she won the Primarys, along with McCain. Things are going my way it seems.
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O.
Even so it made me laugh.
PS: Hillary is loco. Nation wide health care is what communism does.
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Okay. I see nothing wrong with that.
You Americans have this silly misconception that Communism = BAD!!!!1!!11one11SHIFT11!1!
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Well considering that communist regimes have historically been the most brutal in regards to human rights violations...I find that assumption not too far off the mark.
Reconcilia Rem Publicam!
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| Re: Election '08 [message #309395 is a reply to message #309384] |
Wed, 09 January 2008 18:34 |
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| Dover wrote on Wed, 09 January 2008 20:15 |
| Sn1per74* wrote on Wed, 09 January 2008 17:13 |
| Dover wrote on Wed, 09 January 2008 19:08 |
| Sn1per74* wrote on Tue, 08 January 2008 19:31 |
| Dover wrote on Mon, 07 January 2008 21:15 |
| cheesesoda wrote on Mon, 07 January 2008 19:12 |
People need to learn that Ron Paul is NOT an Isolationist and DOES NOT promote Isolationism. Ron Paul is a non-Interventionist. He still wants America to be a part of the world economy and be friendly to all nations. He just doesn't want to intervene like we have in the Middle East over the past 30 years and longer.
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Good luck with that. That's me telling people that Hillary isn't a Communist and doesn't have sand in her vagina. Even though it's true, Americans believe what the TV tells them.
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AHAHAHA. Quote of the year!
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I'm not sure if you understood me. I actually support Clinton.
Speaking of whom, she won the Primarys, along with McCain. Things are going my way it seems.
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O.
Even so it made me laugh.
PS: Hillary is loco. Nation wide health care is what communism does.
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Okay. I see nothing wrong with that.
You Americans have this silly misconception that Communism = BAD!!!!1!!11one11SHIFT11!1!
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Marxism doesn't work in large populations. You know, such as America that has 300 million people.
Libertarian Party | The King's Throne | The Soda Shop
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| Re: Election '08 [message #309398 is a reply to message #309393] |
Wed, 09 January 2008 18:40 |
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Dover
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| GoArmy44 wrote on Wed, 09 January 2008 17:32 |
Well considering that communist regimes have historically been the most brutal in regards to human rights violations...I find that assumption not too far off the mark.
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http://www.anu.edu.au/polsci/marx/classics/manifesto.html
Read it, and when you find something about violating human rights, get back to me.
| cheesesoda wrote on Wed, 09 January 2008 17:34 |
Marxism doesn't work in large populations. You know, such as America that has 300 million people.
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Why?
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
Remember kids the internet is serious business.
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| Re: Election '08 [message #309401 is a reply to message #308124] |
Wed, 09 January 2008 18:49 |
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Well, it's hard for a government to have that much control over that large of a populace. Crime would increase because people are greedy, and nothing is going to stop them from trying to get what they want. There's no incentive for people to be as productive as they could be in the government doesn't allow for competition between businesses. There's no real improvement in technology because there's no incentive to, either. Why produce something improved if there's no competition? There's little incentive to invent new technologies if you can't take advantage of supply and demand.
Plus, if it's to all be about the "common good", then there's a problem with not respecting individual liberties. The populace is made up of individuals, and in order to get people to respect each other is to respect the individual. Nobody is going to want to improve their communities if they're not respected. I wouldn't feel I owe the community anything if I'm now allowed to be myself.
Libertarian Party | The King's Throne | The Soda Shop
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| Re: Election '08 [message #309402 is a reply to message #309401] |
Wed, 09 January 2008 18:54 |
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Dover
Messages: 2547
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Location: Monterey, California
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| cheesesoda wrote on Wed, 09 January 2008 17:49 |
Well, it's hard for a government to have that much control over that large of a populace.
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The idea isn't the control people. The idea is to control the economy.
| cheesesoda wrote on Wed, 09 January 2008 17:49 |
Crime would increase because people are greedy, and nothing is going to stop them from trying to get what they want.
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I refuse to believe this. If people are naturally greedy, and nothing that they ever do will change that, then I say start over, the experiement didn't work, and I'll be waiting for 40 days of rain anytime soon.
| cheesesoda wrote on Wed, 09 January 2008 17:49 |
There's no incentive for people to be as productive as they could be in the government doesn't allow for competition between businesses.
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With technology advancing as rapidly as it is, I somehow doubt productivity is much of a problem. How many farmers do you know? How many farmers are there? Yet this tiny number of people provide food for the millions and millions of the rest of us. Factories are relying more and more on automated labor. Who needs incentive when less people are accomplishing more work every day?
| cheesesoda wrote on Wed, 09 January 2008 17:49 |
There's no real improvement in technology because there's no incentive to, either. Why produce something improved if there's no competition? There's little incentive to invent new technologies if you can't take advantage of supply and demand.
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Which exlains why Soviet Russia got man both in space and in orbit before the US did, right?
| cheesesoda wrote on Wed, 09 January 2008 17:49 |
Plus, if it's to all be about the "common good", then there's a problem with not respecting individual liberties. The populace is made up of individuals, and in order to get people to respect each other is to respect the individual. Nobody is going to want to improve their communities if they're not respected. I wouldn't feel I owe the community anything if I'm now allowed to be myself.
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http://www.anu.edu.au/polsci/marx/classics/manifesto.html
Read it, and when you find something about violating individual liberties, get back to me.
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
Remember kids the internet is serious business.
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| Re: Election '08 [message #309404 is a reply to message #308124] |
Wed, 09 January 2008 18:58 |
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Government controlling the economy IS violating individual rights. I hate government kicking money to corporations and huge tax breaks to them, as well. I hate the fact that our government plays even any part in our economy... especially the part where they create inflation by printing off new money. The government is our own worst nightmare when it comes to the economy.
They were in an arms race against America. It was the government's incentive to be the biggest world super power. Without this arms race and national competition, the advances would have been trivial.
Libertarian Party | The King's Throne | The Soda Shop
[Updated on: Wed, 09 January 2008 19:01] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Election '08 [message #309409 is a reply to message #308124] |
Wed, 09 January 2008 19:33 |
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GoArmy44
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| Quote: |
GoArmy44 wrote on Wed, 09 January 2008 17:32
Well considering that communist regimes have historically been the most brutal in regards to human rights violations...I find that assumption not too far off the mark.
http://www.anu.edu.au/polsci/marx/classics/manifesto.html
Read it, and when you find something about violating human rights, get back to me.
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I never said anything about the Communist Manifesto. But taking people's property just because they are "bourgeois" does have a unethical taste to it.
I was talking about communist regimes such as the Soviet Union, China, Vietnam, North Korea, Cambodia, Cuba, etc, setc...that have what seems like a fraction of the civil liberties and property rights that we nonchalantly enjoy here in the U.S.
| Quote: |
cheesesoda wrote on Wed, 09 January 2008 17:49
There's no real improvement in technology because there's no incentive to, either. Why produce something improved if there's no competition? There's little incentive to invent new technologies if you can't take advantage of supply and demand.
Which exlains why Soviet Russia got man both in space and in orbit before the US did, right?
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Thats true, but isn't it the United States who landed on the moon? I mean, we started later in the space race yet were able to beat them..why? Because some of the technologies used to put man on the moon are now used in commercial products. This incentive to invent creates much more production of new tech from a growing number of entrepreneurs that propelled us ahead of the Russians in space.
Reconcilia Rem Publicam!
[Updated on: Wed, 09 January 2008 19:50] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Election '08 [message #309418 is a reply to message #309404] |
Wed, 09 January 2008 20:15 |
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Dover
Messages: 2547
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Location: Monterey, California
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| cheesesoda wrote on Wed, 09 January 2008 17:58 |
Government controlling the economy IS violating individual rights.
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I'm sorry you feel that way.
| cheesesoda wrote on Wed, 09 January 2008 17:58 |
I hate government kicking money to corporations and huge tax breaks to them, as well.
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Somehow, I doubt this will be a problem under communism.
| cheesesoda wrote on Wed, 09 January 2008 17:58 |
I hate the fact that our government plays even any part in our economy.
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I hate people who drive the speed limit on the freeway. What's your point?
| cheesesoda wrote on Wed, 09 January 2008 17:58 |
especially the part where they create inflation by printing off new money. The government is our own worst nightmare when it comes to the economy.
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So the sollution is lazie-faire capitalism? Revolutions have been fought and empires toppled over capitalism gone wrong. I don't know how people can still support it at all.
| cheesesoda wrote on Wed, 09 January 2008 17:58 |
They were in an arms race against America. It was the government's incentive to be the biggest world super power. Without this arms race and national competition, the advances would have been trivial.
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I don't see how launching people into space helps with the arms race. Don't get started about orbital weapons. It's a good fifty years later and we still don't have any of those.
| GoArmy44 wrote on Wed, 09 January 2008 18:33 |
I never said anything about the Communist Manifesto. But taking people's property just because they are "bourgeois" does have a unethical taste to it.
I was talking about communist regimes such as the Soviet Union, China, Vietnam, North Korea, Cambodia, Cuba, etc, setc...that have what seems like a fraction of the civil liberties and property rights that we nonchalantly enjoy here in the U.S.
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Then clearly we're talking about two different things. You're talking about "Soviet Union, China, Vietnam, North Korea, Cambodia, Cuba, etc," and I'm talking about Communism.
| GoArmy44 wrote on Wed, 09 January 2008 18:33 |
Thats true, but isn't it the United States who landed on the moon?
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Depends on who you talk to.
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
Remember kids the internet is serious business.
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| Re: Election '08 [message #309423 is a reply to message #308124] |
Wed, 09 January 2008 20:31 |
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GoArmy44
Messages: 265
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Location: Oklahoma
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| Quote: |
cheesesoda wrote on Wed, 09 January 2008 17:58
especially the part where they create inflation by printing off new money. The government is our own worst nightmare when it comes to the economy.
So the sollution is lazie-faire capitalism? Revolutions have been fought and empires toppled over capitalism gone wrong. I don't know how people can still support it at all.
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I wouldn't use those examples as laissez-faire economies. The French Monarchy and the British Empire were more like mercantile economies where strong government regulation at the federal level was used to protect the industries of those countries.
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cheesesoda wrote on Wed, 09 January 2008 17:58
They were in an arms race against America. It was the government's incentive to be the biggest world super power. Without this arms race and national competition, the advances would have been trivial.
I don't see how launching people into space helps with the arms race. Don't get started about orbital weapons. It's a good fifty years later and we still don't have any of those.
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It helps create new technologies that help benefit military forces already established...GPS for example, computerization was most certainly sped up by the great push to put a man in space thus providing an invaluable resource for communication between commanders and units.
Reconcilia Rem Publicam!
[Updated on: Wed, 09 January 2008 20:38] Report message to a moderator |
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