Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » Man returns gun ammo to walmart at 1300 feet per second
| Re: Man returns gun ammo to walmart at 1300 feet per second [message #283608 is a reply to message #283600] |
Tue, 11 September 2007 09:43   |
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| Ryu wrote on Tue, 11 September 2007 12:09 |
| cheesesoda wrote on Tue, 11 September 2007 08:21 |
Isolated incidents are going to happen. Accidents happen.
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Who the fuck kills a 11 year old by accident and doesn't admit to it?
It's obvious he was murdered.
| cheesesoda wrote on Tue, 11 September 2007 08:21 |
Should we rid of automobiles? They kill more innocent people per year than guns do. Still support manufacture of automobiles?
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Obviously, Now, If people weren't retarded to drink alcohol and drive at the same time, them figures would be reduced alot.
Also, Looking both ways and using traffic lights to cross the road helps alot, Unless you're an idiot and have a death wish.
| cheesesoda wrote on Tue, 11 September 2007 08:21 |
Edit: I would support having to own a gun license in order to purchase a weapon, but the license should be the equivalent of a driver's license. You have to know how to operate the gun, and know the laws regarding operation, but no background checks or anything more in-depth.
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Okay, So a nursery shouldn't be allowed to do background checks on someone they're about to employee? no?
The police shouldn't do background checks on people they're about to employee?
You don't know who you're selling the gun to, Back ground checks can tell you a little about what the person could do with the weapon.
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You people suck. Let's take away all of my liberties because someone else might get hurt, and some people might do that purposely. Oh-fucking-well. It's life. Shit happens. Get the fuck over it and move on. Just because the government makes it law doesn't mean it changes anything, and it doesn't. Not by much, anyways.
Business employing people is different than a business selling a product or service to consumers.
If the business wants to ensure that their customers have a squeaky clean record, they should be able to do so. However, it's not the government's job to decide for the business.
Again, the more people that own guns, the less violence is going to happen. If you have a 1 in 2 chance that you're going to encounter someone with a gun, are you going to be entirely confident in attacking that person, especially with bystanders with the same chance of owning a gun? I don't think so. As NukeIt said, criminals are selfish. They only care about themselves, so they're not going to do anything to put themselves in harms way.
Sure, there's always going to be exceptions to the world, but wrapping the world up in bubble wrap isn't going to make the world any better. It's going to suffocate people, and it makes for a dull existence. If you want to live in a bubble wrap world, then do that to yourself, don't make my government do that to me when I can handle myself. I don't care if people can't handle themselves in the same manner I can. If they want to fuck with me, then I can deal with them.
LEAVE MY LIBERTIES ALONE.
Libertarian Party | The King's Throne | The Soda Shop
[Updated on: Tue, 11 September 2007 09:44] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Man returns gun ammo to walmart at 1300 feet per second [message #283618 is a reply to message #283601] |
Tue, 11 September 2007 10:22 |
Caveman
Messages: 2476
Registered: July 2005
Location: Wales, UK
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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| EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Tue, 11 September 2007 17:12 |
| Starbuzz wrote on Tue, 11 September 2007 15:50 |
Well said, cheesesoda.
I find it disgusting that people say guns should be removed because IT is causing problems. The gun did not commit the crime but the irresponsible idiots wielding it.
No one seems to understand what individual responsibility is. Those who want guns removed because it kills people are simply ignoring the facts. Oh yeah...let's put the multi-billion dollar industry out of business because it automatically solves everyone's problems. 
How many kids end up dead after playing with guns? Whose fault is that? The gun manufacturers? BS...it is the fault of the idiot parents/guardians for not keeping their guns locked away out of sight and reach.
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All I'm saying is this: in the USA, where every dumb fuck can get a gun, you have loads of accidents with guns. As if that's not bad enough, how often can you actually use a gun to protect yourself? I'm not talking about your home because, wtf do I care about some idiot that wants to steal my stuff? I surely wouldn't want to kill him. Of course, it might differ a bit on what he's taking, but as long as it isn't personal stuff, the insurance will pay. For me that's not worth the risk anyway. Besides, because everyone can get a gun, what makes you think the criminal doesn't have one? He has nothing to lose, as you might kill him. He'll now probably kill you first. On a side note: how often you get robbed when you're home?
In the Netherlands you do have burglary of course, just like anywhere else. But not more then in other countries where you can easily legally get a gun. Also, you're saying that criminals can always get a gun. Perhaps this is true, but here you know that if someone is found to have a gun, he is a criminal and will get arrested. Also, in the USA there will be many many more guns, simply because everyone has one. Thus, the burglar we just mentioned can steal your gun, and there you go, another gun in criminal hands.
on your last point: if you keep your gun safely locked away, how can you (quickly) use it when there is a situation you can solve with a gun? So one way or another, that doesn't work. Now if you want to kill innocent children, be my guest, as long as I don't have to be a part of it.
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Well said.
Cheesesoda, you're jumping the gun here (No pun intented). If you're trained in firearms and safety of a firearm then sure why not have a gun? But to beable to walk into a shop and say Hey man i'll have that pretty little number over there and then walk out the shop with it within 15mins is IDIOTIC. There should be like a 2 week waiting period so the store keeper can do whatever checks he needs to do, so he doesn't sell a gun to some fucked up prick that thinks its cool to shoot down a 11year old boy for no apparent reason.
You don't like my opinion then screw you.
| CarrierII wrote |
BLUEHTHEN YOU AR NOT JUST A BIG CHEATAS AND YOU THE BIG HEAD JUST YOU USE FLY H4X FUCK YOU BIG CHEATAS YOUR CHEATZ IS BAD YOU WANT I WRAUGHT THIS YOUR CHEATZ IS BAD HEY IS 1 YEAR YOUR PROMESS A FLY HAX IN MULTIPLAYER AND IS DONT JUST TROOPRM02 I TELL IT ALL WHO REPLYER IN THIS FORUM YOU CHEATZ
Please don't make me type something like that again, not using puntuation is annoying.
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[Updated on: Tue, 11 September 2007 10:22] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Man returns gun ammo to walmart at 1300 feet per second [message #283619 is a reply to message #283617] |
Tue, 11 September 2007 10:24 |
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| Ryu wrote on Tue, 11 September 2007 13:13 |
Well, The idea of one gun to every family sounds a tad bit too extreme to me.
And I don't want to waste my time.
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Every family being gun-toting rednecks is a tad extreme. Protecting yourself, by any means necessary, isn't.
Would you consider every family having an alarm in their home to be extreme? Do you consider people carrying mace with them to be extreme? Protecting yourself and your property is not "extreme", it's logical. Owning a gun isn't any more extreme than that. It's just that people get these stupid, knee-jerk reactions to it.
I'm completely sympathetic to these horrible stories of these accidents and horrible, conscious acts committed by people. I don't just turn the other way and pretend that doesn't exist, either. However, I'm not going to pretend that all can be fixed by taking liberties from others. Don't suffocate my life because of a few bad people and a few careless people.
Yes, guns can be used for HORRIBLE acts. There are some really ruthless people out there, but they're criminals regardless of the law. If they want to harm you, they will. If they want a gun to do it, they will find a way to get a gun, and getting a gun illegally is a bit easier than getting one legally, whether or not you're law-abiding.
Taking away my freedom from protecting myself with lethal force only helps out the criminals succeed. A gun is a great equalizer. A 4'6", 85lb woman toting a gun can effectively defend herself against a 6'5", 250lb attacker.
If you don't like guns, don't buy one. If you're afraid of your children and friends of your children getting a hold of your gun, don't buy one. If you're afraid of accidentally discharging it against a friend, rather than a foe, (I bet you can guess what I'm about to say, can't you?...) don't buy one. I, however, want a gun, and I am fully prepared to take responsibility for anything that happens directly relating to my gun.
A gun isn't necessarily for everyone. I don't expect everybody to like guns. However, I expect everybody to respect mine and others' decisions to live our lives by our own accord.
Edit: Caveman, why should I have to wait? I could just as easily walk up to someone's house, buy their shitty car for $200, and then proceed to run over innocent pedestrians walking on the downtown sidewalks. I could go buy a PC from a local store, connect it to my internet connection, and proceed to use it maliciously against others. I could go buy a set of kitchen knives and go stab my ex-girlfriend because I happened to think of what she did to me x amount of years ago for x reason. I could go buy a baseball bat at my local store and proceed to smash car windshields because I'm pissed off at the world. I could go on, but I feel you get my point.
Yes, a gun is traditionally more violent than any of what I just listed above. I won't deny that, but maybe it's not me who needs to have a different view of guns. Maybe it's everybody else who needs to realize that guns aren't causing crime. Yes, they're also more lethal than what I listed above, but a crime is a crime. If you want to maliciously attack someone or something, you're going to do it regardless of whether or not you have a gun. You have so many things to choose from to perform your criminal acts. Don't criminalize me because someone else is irresponsible, just as I'm not criminalizing you.
Libertarian Party | The King's Throne | The Soda Shop
[Updated on: Tue, 11 September 2007 10:30] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Man returns gun ammo to walmart at 1300 feet per second [message #283625 is a reply to message #283623] |
Tue, 11 September 2007 10:41 |
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| Goztow wrote on Tue, 11 September 2007 13:39 |
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Yes, guns can be used for HORRIBLE acts.
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Plz explain me what else they can be used for? Killing a criminal is also a horrible act, no matter how much he may have deserved it.
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Recreation? It's fun to shoot stuff. Just like it's fun to set stuff on fire. I hardly think that shooting at clay targets would be considered to be a horrible act. Plus, guns are sexy in their own right, so they're nice showpieces.
Edit: Starbuzz added hunting that I forgot.
Also, don't forget that sometimes horrible acts are necessary in life. Just because it's not "nice" doesn't mean that it isn't needed. When I said "HORRIBLE acts", I meant unnecessary and evil actions. Protecting yourself is hardly unnecessary and evil.
Libertarian Party | The King's Throne | The Soda Shop
[Updated on: Tue, 11 September 2007 10:52] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Man returns gun ammo to walmart at 1300 feet per second [message #283627 is a reply to message #283623] |
Tue, 11 September 2007 10:43 |
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Starbuzz
Messages: 2487
Registered: May 2007
Karma: 2
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General (2 Stars) |
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| Goztow wrote on Tue, 11 September 2007 12:39 |
| Quote: |
Yes, guns can be used for HORRIBLE acts.
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Plz explain me what else they can be used for? Killing a criminal is also a horrible act, no matter how much he may have deserved it.
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Well, we have no choice in this world. Out there, whoever we maybe and whatever religion, race, or nationality, we will always have an enemy who would want to do harm.
Someone out there is our enemy and we ourselves are someone's enemy...that's the world.
*waits for aliens to come and disarm the militaries thorough diplomacy*
EDIT:
And one must realize how nice it is to hunt, prepare, cook and eat your own food out in the wilderness. Nothing wrong with that. Don't complain unless you have experienced it!
[Updated on: Tue, 11 September 2007 10:46] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Man returns gun ammo to walmart at 1300 feet per second [message #283630 is a reply to message #283623] |
Tue, 11 September 2007 11:28 |
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Oblivion165
Messages: 3468
Registered: June 2003
Location: Hendersonville, North Car...
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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| Goztow wrote on Tue, 11 September 2007 13:39 |
| Quote: |
Yes, guns can be used for HORRIBLE acts.
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Plz explain me what else they can be used for? Killing a criminal is also a horrible act, no matter how much he may have deserved it.
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Target Practice
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WOL: Ob165ion Skype: Oblivion165 Yahoo Instant Messenger: CaptainJohn165
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| Re: Man returns gun ammo to walmart at 1300 feet per second [message #283648 is a reply to message #283422] |
Tue, 11 September 2007 12:40 |
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On a practical basis, killing criminals prevents re-offending (in the most sure way possible) and helps to solve the impending over-population crisis.
Sadly, humans insist on being impractical with life and emotions.
Renguard is a wonderful initiative
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Supporters of Proposition 8 will argue California does not discriminate against gays, as the current law allows them to get married - as long as they wed a partner of the opposite sex.
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| halokid wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 08:46 |
| R315r4z0r wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 15:35 |
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the hell is that?
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[Updated on: Tue, 11 September 2007 12:40] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Man returns gun ammo to walmart at 1300 feet per second [message #283654 is a reply to message #283630] |
Tue, 11 September 2007 13:33 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9727
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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| Oblivion165 wrote on Tue, 11 September 2007 20:28 |
| Goztow wrote on Tue, 11 September 2007 13:39 |
| Quote: |
Yes, guns can be used for HORRIBLE acts.
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Plz explain me what else they can be used for? Killing a criminal is also a horrible act, no matter how much he may have deserved it.
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Target Practice
Signaling for help
Nail Driving
Archeology
Survival
Flares
You can even get your High School Diploma!
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Right, but that's where gun licenses are for. That doesn't explain why everyone should be able to get one.
When I read these replies, I'm starting to find it bizar that I, not having a gun, am still in perfect health :-S.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: Man returns gun ammo to walmart at 1300 feet per second [message #283657 is a reply to message #283654] |
Tue, 11 September 2007 14:06 |
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| Goztow wrote on Tue, 11 September 2007 16:33 |
| Oblivion165 wrote on Tue, 11 September 2007 20:28 |
| Goztow wrote on Tue, 11 September 2007 13:39 |
| Quote: |
Yes, guns can be used for HORRIBLE acts.
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Plz explain me what else they can be used for? Killing a criminal is also a horrible act, no matter how much he may have deserved it.
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Target Practice
Signaling for help
Nail Driving
Archeology
Survival
Flares
You can even get your High School Diploma!
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Right, but that's where gun licenses are for. That doesn't explain why everyone should be able to get one.
When I read these replies, I'm starting to find it bizar that I, not having a gun, am still in perfect health :-S.
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I don't own a gun (yet), and I'm in perfect health. However, that has NOTHING to do with this argument. Quit trying to correlate stupid shit that doesn't matter.
The fact is, just as anybody should be able to buy kitchen knives, cars, and tissues, people should be able to buy guns. There's no real logical argument against it, besides your knee-jerk, "OMG WUT IF DETH HAPENZ". Oh well. Shit happens.
Libertarian Party | The King's Throne | The Soda Shop
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| Re: Man returns gun ammo to walmart at 1300 feet per second [message #283707 is a reply to message #283668] |
Tue, 11 September 2007 19:30 |
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scarabguy
Messages: 57
Registered: August 2007
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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wow, i like this arguement....
enough bs. the world is an unsafe place. people are gonna have guns, people are gonna die, and theres nothing we can do about it! but i do think that one thing we CAN control is who we let have guns, and im not talking bout just average joe out there, im talking bout machine guns to anyone, and handguns to people who have already committed felonies, or are mentally unstable! and i am totally for my and your rights, but we gotta get some kind of control!
I don't "STEAL", I field aquire
Thanks for the free particle cannon! 
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| Re: Man returns gun ammo to walmart at 1300 feet per second [message #283712 is a reply to message #283422] |
Tue, 11 September 2007 20:19 |
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Mentally stable I can see restricting access to, but you don't give mentally unstable people operator (driver's) licenses, either.
My past behavior, while is somewhat of an indication of my future behavior, does not define my future behavior. If I've done my time and am now given the chance to be a law-abiding citizen, I don't feel that I should be prevented from buying weapons.
To some extent, I do believe in preventing felons from purchasing guns. As long as the crime is severe enough to warrant such a thing.
Regardless, this doesn't require a background check. If the person has his or her weapon license revoked, they wouldn't be able to purchase a weapon. Just as someone without their ID would be unable to purchase tobacco, alcohol, lottery tickets, pornography, etc...
No privacy is invaded. No waiting period. Some comfort knowing a serial killer won't have legal access (but again, will still have illegal access) to weapons.
Libertarian Party | The King's Throne | The Soda Shop
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| Re: Man returns gun ammo to walmart at 1300 feet per second [message #283787 is a reply to message #283422] |
Wed, 12 September 2007 07:18 |
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NukeIt15
Messages: 987
Registered: February 2003
Location: Out to lunch
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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I know this has been responded to already, but it was just so inanely stupid that I couldn't resist. Sorry if I drag things backwards a bit.
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All I'm saying is this: in the USA, where every dumb fuck can get a gun,
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Firstly, not "every dumb fuck" can buy a gun (legally). No matter where you go in the US, no matter what sort of gun you aim to buy (excepting fully automatic, which requires a special federal permit), when you select your purchase and fill out the on-site paperwork, the dealer picks up their phone. In every state but one, so far as I know, they call a toll-free number to an FBI hotline, and the FBI performs a background check against a national database of felons, loonies, and anyone else who ought not have that gun. This background check is, as one would expect in the twenty-first fucking century, a very quick procedure. It doesn't require the three-day wait periods some states have in place, and it certainly doesn't require weeks. Thusly, by the time the dealer hangs up the phone, they know whether or not you are legally permitted to own a gun. They then look at the paperwork to make sure you haven't omitted anything they may have been informed of during said phone call. In the one state where the dealer does not call the FBI directly (New Jersey), the dealer instead calls the State Police, who then call the FBI- this is done so that the state government can grub $15 from every gun purchase, not for any security reason. Still think every dumb fuck can get a gun (legally)?
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you have loads of accidents with guns. As if that's not bad enough, how often can you actually use a gun to protect yourself? I'm not talking about your home because, wtf do I care about some idiot that wants to steal my stuff? I surely wouldn't want to kill him. Of course, it might differ a bit on what he's taking, but as long as it isn't personal stuff, the insurance will pay. For me that's not worth the risk anyway. Besides, because everyone can get a gun, what makes you think the criminal doesn't have one? He has nothing to lose, as you might kill him. He'll now probably kill you first. On a side note: how often you get robbed when you're home?
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Here's the rub, skippy: if there's a criminal in your home, they are a threat to anyone in the house. Sure, youc an say "well, they'll go after my stuff first," but you're not a psychic and neither am I- there is no way of knowing what that asshole means to do when they break and enter. While there are a great many people over here who would sadly agree with you, many more are of the opinion that once a criminal violates your home, they are already a threat and their life is forfeit.
Additionally, robberies that happen when you aren't home aren't the fucking point. The issue here is what you choose to do when there is a confrontation. And if that criminal is armed, they might get off the first shot if you are also armed. However, they will get off the first shot if you aren't. I'd rather not die because some tool like you decided that I didn't have a right to defend myself and my loved ones by any means necessary- and that makes me damned glad you aren't writing the laws over here.
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In the Netherlands you do have burglary of course, just like anywhere else. But not more then in other countries where you can easily legally get a gun.
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I really have neither the time nor the patience to sift through crime statistics now, so I'll just leave that be. I'll come back to this one if I feel up to it later.
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Also, you're saying that criminals can always get a gun. Perhaps this is true, but here you know that if someone is found to have a gun, he is a criminal and will get arrested.
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This is a fallacious argument. The analog here would be to say that you know a person is a criminal because they were found carrying marijuana- no shit, Sherlock! They're committing a crime because they're carrying something that is illegal. The problem is that you can't prove that they intended to do anything else illegal using said prohibited thing. That's why if you get caught with weed here you only get charged with possession, and if you get caught with an illegal gun you get charged only with possession and not with "intended homicide." Also, in order to arrest a criminal you have to catch them first. Guns are, as you may or may not have heard, somewhat easily concealed. And, as you may or may not have figured out by now, it is rather more difficult to impose your will on somebody who is armed. Would a desperate criminal (hypothetically, of course) always just give up with an "oop, you caught me- good show!" when they have the means to violently resist? You're assuming an awful lot here, and assumptions evidence do not make. At any rate, the fact remains that said hypothetical criminal does have a gun, and they have ample opportunity to squeeze off a few at somebody before the police- hypothetically- take them down (I don't know how well armed your boys in blue are), and if nobody else is armed then he can do so with impunity.
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Also, in the USA there will be many many more guns, simply because everyone has one. Thus, the burglar we just mentioned can steal your gun, and there you go, another gun in criminal hands.
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Another stupid, stupid, uninformed, and stupid statement. No, everyone in the US does not have a gun. Some of my best friends are anti-gun, and even among those of my friends who support gun rights only a handful actually own one. Hell, my mother doesn't own a gun, even though my father and my sister and I all do (and more than one each at that). That alone tells me that you've never even bothered to glance at anything that backs up your conclusions; how the hell can you pretend to 'know' what the situation is over here when you can't be arsed to look up even the basic facts? No, I can't remember the exact numbers offhand- but the number of gun owners in this country adds up to ~1/3 of our total population, IIRC. The number of guns owned is much higher, because many people who own guns own more than one.
Secondly, you make the assumption that the criminal will get their hands on your weapon before you can use it. How so, exactly? When using a weapon for home defense, it is common practice to keep that weapon in a small combination-locked strongbox beside your bed. To make an assumption of my own (a necessary one, if we are to presume that there will be a confrontation at all), you will wake up when you hear the criminal enter your home. Are you willing to argue that the criminal can reach your room, guess at your combo, and extract your gun before you can do the same? Bullshit. In the real world, it happens this way- you wake up to the sound of somebody breaking in. You punch/dial in the code and pick up your gun and ammo, and load it. This takes no more than a few seconds' time, if you've had the good sense to practice. This is possible in all situations unless the criminal entered your room directly from the outside, in which case it is usually more advisable to use a melee weapon such as a baseball bat which is quicker to pick up and easier to use at point-blank range. Or did you, perhaps, think that the gun would be the only means a well-prepared homeowner would have available to defend their home with?
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on your last point: if you keep your gun safely locked away, how can you (quickly) use it when there is a situation you can solve with a gun?
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See above. Also, acquire a carry permit in order to deal with situations outside the home (in those states which require it).
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So one way or another, that doesn't work. Now if you want to kill innocent children, be my guest, as long as I don't have to be a part of it.
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That, my uninformed friend, is a statement which provides nothing but a quick emotional jab to your arguments. Not only is it assuming quite a bit. For starters, that you would keep a loaded weapon where a child could easily get at it, that you wouldn't make any attempt to educate said child so that they know not to point the bloody thing at their own self, or that you would be so stupid as to neglect everything you've ever learned about gun safety and point it anywhere but up, down, or at your intended target- even when unloaded- to say nothing of the implicit assumption that every person who owns a gun will go around intentionally shooting children.
"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived of the use of them." - Thomas Paine
Remember, kids: illiteracy is cool. If you took the time to read this, you are clearly a loser who will never get laid. You've been warned.
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| Re: Man returns gun ammo to walmart at 1300 feet per second [message #283798 is a reply to message #283796] |
Wed, 12 September 2007 08:19 |
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| Surth wrote on Wed, 12 September 2007 11:16 |
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The fact is, just as anybody should be able to buy kitchen knives, cars, and tissues, people should be able to buy guns. There's no real logical argument against it, besides your knee-jerk, "OMG WUT IF DETH HAPENZ". Oh well. Shit happens.
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Kitchen Knives and Cars have a real use (cut bread/drive to grandma who lives 100 miles away) - A gun hasnt. I dont think the Guns you buy in a Supermarket or something are used to go hunting.
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No, you're right. The guns in the SPORTING GOODS sections and next to the HUNTING gear are obviously NOT used for hunting. No fucking way in Hell...
Edit: NukeIt, let me add onto what you said about the whole "it's just stuff" argument that was so blatantly stupid.
I don't give a flying fuck if someone just wants my stuff. That's MY stuff. That's stuff I earned. If I can defend said property, why wouldn't I? Sure, I could leave it to the insurance companies to replace the items, but then that just makes everybody else's interest rates go up, and I'm not that selfish. In fact, I bet if everybody owned a gun, insurance rates would go down, most likely. So owning a gun not only protects me, my family, my possessions, but also has the potential save me and others money in the long run.
Another reason why that's stupid. Just because MOST home invasions are robberies doesn't mean that ALL are. What if someone intends to hurt you? Then what? You can't tell the would-be attacker, "I DIDN'T EXPECT TO BE HARMED, SO I DIDN'T HAVE A GUN" and expect him to turn around and leave your house.
Speaking of that, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeo05uPMmn4
I love that video.
Libertarian Party | The King's Throne | The Soda Shop
[Updated on: Wed, 12 September 2007 08:32] Report message to a moderator |
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