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Your lack of appreciation and what it causes [message #260436] Wed, 23 May 2007 15:18 Go to next message
Crimson  is currently offline Crimson  
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From: *ph.ph.cox.net
Please don't interpret this as "OMG PLEEZE LIKE ME!" but I know firsthand that the people who code RenGuard work very hard on it. Overall, it's a thankless job. We release a new version and we get maybe 2 or 3 posts thanking us for it. Tthom at =[UN]= is always really good at showing appreciation and there are some people here and there who are definitely thankful.

But on the cheat side, they are all very appreciative and overwhelmingly thankful for anything that is done there. So if you're a skilled hax0r who doesn't really give a shit about the game itself, wouldn't you be more inclined to make cheats instead of anti-cheats? I assure you there are no threads on the "other" forums called "I'VE JUST ABOUT HAD IT WITH *cheat name removed*" or "0x90 needs to step down". No one criticizes the people who put in the time, effort, and/or money.

So, when you're frustrated, sit back, cool down, and think about what you're posting.


I love Blazer!
Phase One Multiplayer Beta Tester

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Re: Your lack of appreciation and what it causes [message #260541] Thu, 24 May 2007 05:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
-BiO-Cereal_Killer  is currently offline -BiO-Cereal_Killer  
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I'm sure you can understand everyones frustration with RG. It's supposed to keep the cheats out, but they are warping it, and using it to cheat unhindered. How many times have u seen someone cheating, used the old !rg cheatnick and see that they are running RG, but you KNOW they are cheating?......so what can u do now?

report it to a mod?......they just check to see if he is running RG.....he is.......so leave him alone. It's very frustrating.......not only is RG not stopping the cheats, it is making it MORE difficult to get rid of the cheaters.

I dont suggest dumping the project, but maybe you could put up a donation button on the load screen, with a price goal of stuff you guys need to make RG work right, and ask the community for some help for funding. I would suggest putting exactly what u need, how much it costs, and a total of current donations showing how close you are to reaching your goal.

ex, 1 contract coder =$1000
donations = $650
ONLY $350 left DONATE NOW

I dont know what a contract coder costs, or have any idea of what you guys need to secure renegade, but I do know their are a lot of ppl that play the game, that are willing to pay to get rid of the cheats. If they know what they are paying for. If donations don't work, then you could always hold tournaments to raise cash. So if it's a matter of money, I think there is more that could be done to achieve success.

One thing I think Renguard, really needs, is a tutorial page on how to spot cheats in game. Educate the players on how to prove someone is cheating with fraps or a SS. Tell em what to look for, dispel myths.

Ex. I notice this havoc keeps killing me, but I never see the tracer.
Is this a firing rate hack, where only the legitimate bullets leave tracers, and all the added ones do not?

This guy keeps running over me with his apc, from 5 ft away.
Is this lag, or is the guy using bigbodies?

It may be impossible to stop the cheaters permanently, but a lil more info on what BHS needs and a lil more info on how to spot cheats in game, may sway public opinion in your favor again.

PS, I noticed one of the cheats boasting a spectator mode, maybe you could use the code to implement this for use by a server mod.


Thanks for all your work




Shhh.........die quietly!
Re: Your lack of appreciation and what it causes [message #260542] Thu, 24 May 2007 05:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goztow  is currently offline Goztow  
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From: *219-78-194.adsl-static.isp.belgacom.be
Programs like punkbuster have pro coders, paid for making it work, and they also get bypassed.

Theer is no 100 % secure program unfortunately.


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Quote Trooprm2: Anyway, first off my apologies if anyone took offense to past beefs but now im focused on being more productive than anything.
Re: Your lack of appreciation and what it causes [message #260674] Thu, 24 May 2007 16:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
StoneCold  is currently offline StoneCold  
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From: *try.wideopenwest.com
-BiO-Cereal_Killer wrote on Thu, 24 May 2007 07:27

I'm sure you can understand everyones frustration with RG. It's supposed to keep the cheats out, but they are warping it, and using it to cheat unhindered. How many times have u seen someone cheating, used the old !rg cheatnick and see that they are running RG, but you KNOW they are cheating?......so what can u do now?

report it to a mod?......they just check to see if he is running RG.....he is.......so leave him alone. It's very frustrating.......not only is RG not stopping the cheats, it is making it MORE difficult to get rid of the cheaters.

I dont suggest dumping the project, but maybe you could put up a donation button on the load screen, with a price goal of stuff you guys need to make RG work right, and ask the community for some help for funding. I would suggest putting exactly what u need, how much it costs, and a total of current donations showing how close you are to reaching your goal.

ex, 1 contract coder =$1000
donations = $650
ONLY $350 left DONATE NOW

I dont know what a contract coder costs, or have any idea of what you guys need to secure renegade, but I do know their are a lot of ppl that play the game, that are willing to pay to get rid of the cheats. If they know what they are paying for. If donations don't work, then you could always hold tournaments to raise cash. So if it's a matter of money, I think there is more that could be done to achieve success.

One thing I think Renguard, really needs, is a tutorial page on how to spot cheats in game. Educate the players on how to prove someone is cheating with fraps or a SS. Tell em what to look for, dispel myths.

Ex. I notice this havoc keeps killing me, but I never see the tracer.
Is this a firing rate hack, where only the legitimate bullets leave tracers, and all the added ones do not?

This guy keeps running over me with his apc, from 5 ft away.
Is this lag, or is the guy using bigbodies?

It may be impossible to stop the cheaters permanently, but a lil more info on what BHS needs and a lil more info on how to spot cheats in game, may sway public opinion in your favor again.

PS, I noticed one of the cheats boasting a spectator mode, maybe you could use the code to implement this for use by a server mod.


Thanks for all your work






think bout wat ur saying tell them wat to look for... all that is gonna do is help cheaters hide every thing u tell them dude....


"Anyone can take the road that has been taken but.. If you wanna test your self take the road thats not been taken and leave a trail..."
StoneCold
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Re: Your lack of appreciation and what it causes [message #260700] Thu, 24 May 2007 18:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jnz  is currently offline jnz  
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From: *range217-44.btcentralplus.com
Crimson wrote on Wed, 23 May 2007 23:18

Please don't interpret this as "OMG PLEEZE LIKE ME!" but I know firsthand that the people who code RenGuard work very hard on it. Overall, it's a thankless job.


The reason? People who don't cheat, don't want to run it.
It's an insult them, the people who do cheat are obviously not
going to thank you for it. It "gets" in the way, people don't
like that. It's initial design need to be reviewed, imo, there
are ways of not killing the renegade process and ensuring people
aren't cheating. You didn't need to spend $$$ on servers, there
are other ways of doing it, cheaper.
Re: Your lack of appreciation and what it causes [message #260728] Thu, 24 May 2007 22:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
-BiO-Cereal_Killer  is currently offline -BiO-Cereal_Killer  
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From: *tx.res.rr.com

Look Stone...all I'm saying is Renguard needs some help.
A "plan B" for when RG is abused.

Posting a best practices method of spotting cheats will not "tip off" cheats...anymore then the test itself would. Say for instance, YOU are a cheating piece of shit, and YOU get busted in server by a test. The 1st thing YOU would do, is go back to bitch how the cheat sux, and proceed to tell everyone how YOU got caught.

No difference if the cheats read it on these forums or the other ones, except most honest players don't read the other site, but ALL the cheats read THIS one. If everyone knows how to spot a cheat, it will make it more difficult for the cheaters to hide.

I'm just offering ideas on how to make RG more effective, so people will appreciate the effort given to it.


Shhh.........die quietly!
Re: Your lack of appreciation and what it causes [message #260730] Thu, 24 May 2007 22:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tunaman  
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From: *hsd1.mn.comcast.net
gamemodding wrote on Thu, 24 May 2007 21:48

Crimson wrote on Wed, 23 May 2007 23:18

Please don't interpret this as "OMG PLEEZE LIKE ME!" but I know firsthand that the people who code RenGuard work very hard on it. Overall, it's a thankless job.


The reason? People who don't cheat, don't want to run it.
It's an insult them, the people who do cheat are obviously not
going to thank you for it. It "gets" in the way, people don't
like that. It's initial design need to be reviewed, imo, there
are ways of not killing the renegade process and ensuring people
aren't cheating. You didn't need to spend $$$ on servers, there
are other ways of doing it, cheaper.


Maybe you should help them develop RenGuard then if you know of such ways.. I always see you complaining about how bad RenGuard is and then you claim to know better ways to do it, yet I don't see an anti-cheat released by you.


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Re: Your lack of appreciation and what it causes [message #260734] Fri, 25 May 2007 00:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Valherran  is currently offline Valherran  
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Ralphzehunter wrote on Fri, 25 May 2007 00:49

gamemodding wrote on Thu, 24 May 2007 21:48

Crimson wrote on Wed, 23 May 2007 23:18

Please don't interpret this as "OMG PLEEZE LIKE ME!" but I know firsthand that the people who code RenGuard work very hard on it. Overall, it's a thankless job.


The reason? People who don't cheat, don't want to run it.
It's an insult them, the people who do cheat are obviously not
going to thank you for it. It "gets" in the way, people don't
like that. It's initial design need to be reviewed, imo, there
are ways of not killing the renegade process and ensuring people
aren't cheating. You didn't need to spend $$$ on servers, there
are other ways of doing it, cheaper.


Maybe you should help them develop RenGuard then if you know of such ways.. I always see you complaining about how bad RenGuard is and then you claim to know better ways to do it, yet I don't see an anti-cheat released by you.


Pay for my classes on programming and coding and i'll get RIGHT on that, untill then you guys will NEVER hear the end of the gripes untill it is truly fixed.
Re: Your lack of appreciation and what it causes [message #260737] Fri, 25 May 2007 00:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jnz  is currently offline jnz  
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From: *range217-44.btcentralplus.com
Ralphzehunter wrote on Fri, 25 May 2007 06:49


Maybe you should help them develop RenGuard then if you know of such ways.. I always see you complaining about how bad RenGuard is and then you claim to know better ways to do it, yet I don't see an anti-cheat released by you.


A) I'm currently working on a project thats taking up all my time.
B) It's not something I'm interested in anyway.
C) I already answered why i wouldn't help BHS with it.

Re: Your lack of appreciation and what it causes [message #260743] Fri, 25 May 2007 00:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Crimson  is currently offline Crimson  
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From: *ph.ph.cox.net
Actually it's very important the RenGuard acts as a wrapper on Renegade itself. So when it thinks you cheat, it terminates Renegade to make sure you leave the game you're trying to cheat in.

gamemodding, we wouldn't want you to join our team.


I love Blazer!
Phase One Multiplayer Beta Tester

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Re: Your lack of appreciation and what it causes [message #260748] Fri, 25 May 2007 01:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jnz  is currently offline jnz  
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From: *range217-44.btcentralplus.com
Crimson wrote on Fri, 25 May 2007 08:45

Actually it's very important the RenGuard acts as a wrapper on Renegade itself. So when it thinks you cheat, it terminates Renegade to make sure you leave the game you're trying to cheat in.


It's possible to do it on multiple instances of ren. It terminates it weather or not you're cheating.
Re: Your lack of appreciation and what it causes [message #260775] Fri, 25 May 2007 04:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
=HT=T-Bird  is currently offline =HT=T-Bird  
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From: *om.om.cox.net
One thing that would make RenGuard VASTLY more useful:

A set of Best Practices for the infamous !forcerg command that could be summarized quickly and easily as a counter to !forcerg abuse. Giving moderators the power to stop in-progress !forcerg's and stop abusers of that command from continuing their abuse would be a very good complement to the above statement.

Also, we need a Moderator 101 somewhere that needs to include:

  • Cheat Testing
  • Rules Enforcement (Base to Base (B2B), Team Hampering, ...)
  • Basic Moderation Commands
  • Dealing with Disrespectful Players
  • Using Internet Relay Chat (IRC)
  • Configuring and using FRAPS for Screenshots and Video Recording
  • Keeping your Cool and Avoiding Temptations



[Updated on: Fri, 25 May 2007 04:38]


HTT-Bird (IRC)
HTTBird (WOL)
Proud HazTeam Lieutenant.
BlackIntel Coder & Moderator.

If you have trouble running BIATCH on your FDS, have some questions about a BIATCH message or log entry, or think that BIATCH spit out a false positive, PLEASE contact the BlackIntel coding team and avoid wasting the time of others.
Re: Your lack of appreciation and what it causes [message #260781] Fri, 25 May 2007 05:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
-BiO-Cereal_Killer  is currently offline -BiO-Cereal_Killer  
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So is anything gonna be changed, or am I just wasting my breath?

Being unappreciated sux... Huh


Shhh.........die quietly!
Re: Your lack of appreciation and what it causes [message #260786] Fri, 25 May 2007 07:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jnz  is currently offline jnz  
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From: *range217-44.btcentralplus.com
Remember, anything used to communicate with the server (renegade)
is always through the bot. Renguard doesn't do this, if a bot
wants to see if you're connected it must connect to the renguard
master servers. !forcerg, !rg, !rglocate and such are the
bot not renguard.
Re: Your lack of appreciation and what it causes [message #260945] Sat, 26 May 2007 09:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
StoneCold  is currently offline StoneCold  
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From: *try.wideopenwest.com
hm lets c Killer just wondering whether u even no the test for *cheat name removed*atm.... this test btw works if and only if they player being tested is Runnging RG and it servers shows that make them press F8 or ~ key and type !help take a SS and gg


"Anyone can take the road that has been taken but.. If you wanna test your self take the road thats not been taken and leave a trail..."
StoneCold
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Re: Your lack of appreciation and what it causes [message #260951] Sat, 26 May 2007 10:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
danpaul88  is currently offline danpaul88  
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From: *midd.cable.ntl.com
I agree with Crimson, the lack of appreciation around here astounds me sometimes. To take a recent example, the disconnecting issue had people flaming left right and center, and when a fix was posted some people immediately started saying it wouldn't fix it properly etc.

I think the people working on RG deserve a break from your bitching about it, I know from experience that it's very demoralising to have something not work and then everyone start bitching about it in your face, and then you feel less inclined to do more work on it so the fixes take longer to come out.




EDIT: As for !forcerg, that's a BRenBot specific command (or at least I think it is, NR and CS might have it too....). If you have suggestions for improving it feel free to PM me your ideas and I will discuss them with the beta testers and they might get implemented.

[Updated on: Sat, 26 May 2007 10:11]


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Re: Your lack of appreciation and what it causes [message #262822] Sun, 03 June 2007 11:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nightma12  is currently offline Nightma12  
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From: *cable.ubr09.croy.blueyonder.co.uk
Quote:

EDIT: As for !forcerg, that's a BRenBot specific command (or at least I think it is, NR and CS might have it too....). If you have suggestions for improving it feel free to PM me your ideas and I will discuss them with the beta testers and they might get implemented.


NR does have it... but its for mods only - we have !voterg as an alternative however
Re: Your lack of appreciation and what it causes [message #262898] Sun, 03 June 2007 17:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlayMp1  is currently offline PlayMp1  
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Yeah give them a break. It is IMPOSSIBLE to make a airtight anti cheat. I like the idea of posting signs of how a person may be cheating. Although cheaters could read these and work night and day to bypass it again...


KANE LIVES!!!!!
Re: Your lack of appreciation and what it causes [message #264036] Thu, 07 June 2007 15:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
StoneCold  is currently offline StoneCold  
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PlayMp1 wrote on Sun, 03 June 2007 19:39

Yeah give them a break. It is IMPOSSIBLE to make a airtight anti cheat. I like the idea of posting signs of how a person may be cheating. Although cheaters could read these and work night and day to bypass it again...

its funny cause i said that awhile back...


"Anyone can take the road that has been taken but.. If you wanna test your self take the road thats not been taken and leave a trail..."
StoneCold
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Re: Your lack of appreciation and what it causes [message #264247] Fri, 08 June 2007 10:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GoTWhisKéY  is currently offline GoTWhisKéY  
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From: *dsl.bell.ca
Nice guilt-trip thread.

I guess its our fault that Renguard doesn't work since we haven't said 'thank you' enough.


Old School Renny

Re: Your lack of appreciation and what it causes [message #264249] Fri, 08 June 2007 10:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Crimson  is currently offline Crimson  
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Way to not read...


I love Blazer!
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Re: Your lack of appreciation and what it causes [message #264415] Fri, 08 June 2007 16:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
crazfulla  is currently offline crazfulla  
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From: *ue.woosh.co.nz
RenGuard does not work for me, I have tried everything short of a format to no avail. Since a lot of my CD's were stolen a while back (including things like CS2 which I cannot afford to replace right now) I have been reluctant to take this course of action. I can understand that it is extremely frustrating for players whom are split betweenrunning it (being kicked by RenGuard every time it disconnects) and not running it (being kicked by RenGuard when you HS a bunch of FRG happy newbs). However I can also understand that the BHS/RG team spend large ammounts of time effort and money which you all take for granted on this project, and even inspite of the ammount of bugs thaat are continually being discovered and the abuse such as the above that they recieve they keep pluggig away, managing to keep around 99% of cheats out of the game.


"GEoDLeto wrote:"

so what you are saying it is gonna take even longer before this thing is finished
So the topic title should be changed to: a sucky little "teaser" from C&C Reborn has been released

"halo2pac wrote:"

Unless they are girls, I am not going to bone them.
Re: Your lack of appreciation and what it causes [message #269997] Sun, 01 July 2007 16:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lavamike  is currently offline lavamike  
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i kno i like almost nvr post and not many ppl on the renegade forums no me but i appreciate all that RenGuard has done i just too busy to do anything Razz if it weren't for aoutomatic updates i may still have a relly old version of RG Razz
icon12.gif  Re: Your lack of appreciation and what it causes [message #276719] Thu, 02 August 2007 09:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Reaver11  is currently offline Reaver11  
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From: *tilbu1.nb.home.nl
I do appreciate the work that Renguard has done and I know it is frustrating work.

Renguard has done good work but I do think several parts went wrong but it is easier to see errors then fixes.

The main problem is Renegade itself, it went out as broken game not that I don't like the game but it is broken.

It is very difficult to make anti-cheat protection on a broken game and seeing how great they did it on a broken game. I mean the core patches which where supplied with Renguard and are really great things.

Plus as many people have said than auto-update is great!

And lots of cheats are not working with Renguard! Which is great less cheaters!

Only for now I can't use renguard it is plain and simple Windows Vista and there goes RG. But this is of course because windows Vista is new, so it isn't really hate or blame.

Apart from that there is one thing I hate about Brenbott it is a great program but you force server owners to use Renguard. That's why I sometimes just run the memory leaking 1.41!!!

Of course anyone will remember the hugh disconnects which is solved now but for this I say everyone makes errors though this was a big one. Make it easier for people to play without renguard like you can set it in the renguard menu but still that it pops up before you play renguard (so it will auto-update and notify when some errors are fixed etc)

Renguard has pros and cons just as anything in the world. Don't forget it is easier to see the errors. Don't ask for appreciation because alot of people appreciate you're work but that doesn't mean they will E- mail you and make a call to you.

This thing is being shoved down to the people. You want appreciation from the people and then you kind of humiliate them with -> 'Your' lack of 'appreciation' and what it 'causes'. And don't give the look he's a good boy and the rest is bad.

Apart from that I think this move was stupid to make but for the rest I like what you have done for Renegade.

[Updated on: Thu, 02 August 2007 09:03]

Re: Your lack of appreciation and what it causes [message #276762] Thu, 02 August 2007 12:34 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
reckneya  is currently offline reckneya  
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From: *speed.planet.nl
Just because people don't post, doesn't mean they are not thankful. It is a tough job, you put in a lot of effort and money, but the people that use it tend to remember the times your program didn't work, and not see the effect when it in fact does work. But what to do to fix? Nothing, cause there is nothing that can change a global mentality. It is part of the job, part of the destiny the renguard team choose. Do people hate renguard? I doubt it, people just are easily frustrated and need an exhaust to vent that pressure. How do we do that? By bitching. People bitch and bitch and bitch.

I understand your frustration Crimson, but please lighten up.
You and the reguard team have done a great job and still do a great job. The concept of renguard is perfect, only there is a lot of variables out there, that make your job a lot harder.
Just bitch at the cheaters and picture them getting their genitals bitten off by hungry hyenas. It helps Wink


Brandan wrote on Tue, 10 April 2012 07:13

Also what happened to you can change your ISP I doubt you even know what a VPN is or even a remote idea of how the Internet even works.
If I disregard the deficit of cohesion between his statements, and the lack of proper spelling and use of symbols I think I know what he was trying to say, and I lol'd. No hard feelings though Brandan Wink
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