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| Re: C&C3 Demo and C&C3 Official Website discussion (merged) [message #248101 is a reply to message #246959] |
Sun, 04 March 2007 04:25   |
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Scythar
Messages: 580
Registered: February 2003
Location: Finland
Karma: 0
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Hard balanced isn't that hard once you learn how to beat it. Here's how I do it:
Build up a base expansion to one of the tiberium fields immediately, and get a refinery and base defences there. Get 5-10 tanks and couple APCs in the bridge so you can get them to both bases quickly. Build up your tech so you have high-level units available (mammoths or avatars). Once you pump out some 4 of those, go and get the the other tib field too. At that point the game becomes quite easy, it's the beginning where it's easy to lose, right when you're setting your base in the first expansion tib field.
Oh, and is it just me or are the Nod laser turrets kind of useless? Maybe I'm wrong, but it looks as if the shredders are almost as efficient when dealing with tanks, let alone troops.
There's a hole in the sky through which things can fly.
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| Re: C&C3 Demo and C&C3 Official Website discussion (merged) [message #248125 is a reply to message #248123] |
Sun, 04 March 2007 08:18 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9717
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 12
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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| m1a1_abrams wrote on Sun, 04 March 2007 15:57 |
Base defenses huh... I didn't actually think of that. Feel free to laugh at me now. I've been conditioned from previous RTS games to think that stationary defenses are a waste of money and to only build units. The only thing I've built is air defenses. Gonna try out your suggestions Goz, Scyth.
Also, I've been deliberately not expanding too early, because I figured a human player would punish that, although I noticed that the AI lets you do it everytime. I try not to take advantage of any obvious patterns in the AI, but it's probably not the smartest thing to do, considering the AI has advantages of it's own, like being able to "click" 10x faster. 
So do you guys think the base defenses will be worth building against human opponents? It's probably kinda hard to tell vs the AI.
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You'll have different kind of human players: rushers, turtlers, ... Base defenses can be worthy in some cases, I guess, especially because it seems buildings aren't super strong (as in it doesn't take all that long to kll them).
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: C&C3 Demo and C&C3 Official Website discussion (merged) [message #248129 is a reply to message #246959] |
Sun, 04 March 2007 09:16 |
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m1a1_abrams
Messages: 375
Registered: August 2003
Karma: 0
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Commander |
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Yeah, the early anti-infantry turrets should be useful as always, just for insurance against Engineer rushes, or someone who builds a couple of barracks and sets a rally point in your base. The advanced defenses are usually only good for the single player though, unless you're doing one of those cheesy tower creeps, like in RA2. Perhaps the Crane will make them more useful though, since you'll be able to build two at once. It used to be that you put one Obelisk down, and it dies to massed tanks before you get chance to put down the second. Still, you'd need loads of resources to be putting multiple Obelisks down at once, plus they'd need to be in the same place to maximise effectiveness, so couldn't defend your base and a contested Tib field at the same time. You'd need the right kind of map, like with a single choke point and resources in the middle.
I have my doubts about those early anti-vehicles turrets too, because if the enemy has vehicles, you probably should have them too... in which case you might as well build something that can move somewhere else after defending your base.
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| Re: C&C3 Demo and C&C3 Official Website discussion (merged) [message #248130 is a reply to message #248129] |
Sun, 04 March 2007 09:28 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9717
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 12
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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| m1a1_abrams wrote on Sun, 04 March 2007 17:16 |
Yeah, the early anti-infantry turrets should be useful as always, just for insurance against Engineer rushes, or someone who builds a couple of barracks and sets a rally point in your base. The advanced defenses are usually only good for the single player though, unless you're doing one of those cheesy tower creeps, like in RA2. Perhaps the Crane will make them more useful though, since you'll be able to build two at once. It used to be that you put one Obelisk down, and it dies to massed tanks before you get chance to put down the second. Still, you'd need loads of resources to be putting multiple Obelisks down at once, plus they'd need to be in the same place to maximise effectiveness, so couldn't defend your base and a contested Tib field at the same time. You'd need the right kind of map, like with a single choke point and resources in the middle.
I have my doubts about those early anti-vehicles turrets too, because if the enemy has vehicles, you probably should have them too... in which case you might as well build something that can move somewhere else after defending your base.
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With as only difference that a brutal AI cheats, so u're not supposed to have what he has, really.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: C&C3 Demo and C&C3 Official Website discussion (merged) [message #248206 is a reply to message #246959] |
Sun, 04 March 2007 20:41 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7427
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars)
ADMINISTRATOR |
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The Rusher AI is funny... I got a Crane up and built several power plants rather early. I expanded to one tib field and set up massive anti-infantry defenses and they just sat there and shredded his rushers like toilet paper. So while he kept wasting money on that, I was able to increase my tech, build a buttload of Refs and Harvesters, garrison most of the buildings, and got my Ion Cannon online. He was SO done. Of course, he was on easy. I'm sure Medium won't continually send troops after a lost cause and pick another route to rush at.
I'm the bawss.
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| Re: C&C3 Demo and C&C3 Official Website discussion (merged) [message #248240 is a reply to message #246959] |
Mon, 05 March 2007 07:01 |
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m1a1_abrams
Messages: 375
Registered: August 2003
Karma: 0
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Commander |
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Actually, hard rusher AI does just that, so medium almost certainly does. It attacks from multiple sides, but will keep attacking no matter how impenetrable your defense. I've been playing around with the defenses and just built lots of Obelisks, not bothering to expand at all. You need lots of tanks at first, to fight off the first rushes... but once you have 2-3 Obelisks on either side of your base, the AI continues to sends attack groups to die, over and over. It doesn't stop rushing and tech up, so by the time you're ready to come out of your base with Avatars and Stealth Tanks, the AI is still throwing unupgraded Predators at you. It only bothered to take one of the expansion fields too, even though both were completely unguarded for about 10 minutes.
It seems that the rusher is really easy to beat just by turtling, which is disappointing, although it's much harder to beat by rushing yourself. I can't keep up with the AI in a tank spamming race.
[Updated on: Mon, 05 March 2007 07:03] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: C&C3 Demo and C&C3 Official Website discussion (merged) [message #249684 is a reply to message #246959] |
Tue, 13 March 2007 14:08 |
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Dave Mason
Messages: 2357
Registered: April 2004
Location: Shropshire, England
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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Something I've seen mentioned somewhere:
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An interesting note about selling refs: The Ref costs $2000. After selling it you have $1000 + $1000 harvester + $300 riflemen = $2300. So you basically get a harvester for the normal price in addition to free riflemen.
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www.myspace.com/midas
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| Re: C&C3 Demo and C&C3 Official Website discussion (merged) [message #249709 is a reply to message #249694] |
Tue, 13 March 2007 16:52 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915
Registered: January 2006
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars)
Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
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The sale value was half of the refinery's value after the harvester's value had been deducted... i.e. 300. Sensible
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: C&C3 Demo and C&C3 Official Website discussion (merged) [message #249735 is a reply to message #249733] |
Tue, 13 March 2007 19:34 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915
Registered: January 2006
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars)
Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
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| Jerad Gray wrote on Tue, 13 March 2007 20:31 |
Actually in tib dawn the harvester cost around 1500 to build buy it self.
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refinery: 2000
harvester: 1400
money received when selling a refinery: half the refinery's cost not including the harvester, therefore (2000-1400)/2 = 300
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: C&C3 Demo and C&C3 Official Website discussion (merged) [message #249741 is a reply to message #249740] |
Tue, 13 March 2007 20:27 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915
Registered: January 2006
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars)
Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
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I have spent long arduous minutes selling three refineries and can now give a full report:
First two times gave me 3 minigunners
Third time gave me 1 minigunner and two technicians
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: C&C3 Demo and C&C3 Official Website discussion (merged) [message #249774 is a reply to message #246959] |
Wed, 14 March 2007 04:09 |
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m1a1_abrams
Messages: 375
Registered: August 2003
Karma: 0
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Commander |
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Anyone here beating the Brutal GDI AI with Nod consistently? And if so, how do you do it? I can beat the Brutal Nod with GDI after watching some clips of how other people did it and it's fairly straightforward. Expand to another field ASAP, then spam turrets and watchtowers until you can get Sonic Emitters. Put a couple at each place the enemy likes to attack, then build up Mammoths with Railguns and go kill everything.
But Brutal GDI just kills me everytime, with about 30 Predators closing in from all sides. The same tactic doesn't seem to work, because Obelisks are nowhere near as good as Sonic Emitters. Also, I'm not even sure what to build in Nod's late game. The Avatars are so expensive and are not Mammoth Tanks, sadly. Upgraded Scorpions are much more cost effective, but the AI has such a resource advantage, it can still spam enough Predators to beat them. The Stealth Tanks seem quite useless to me, vs the AI at least, because they're way to expensive to keep losing fighting vehicles and aircraft, but the AI knows about all your sneak base attacks too  What to do?
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