Home » General Discussions » General Discussion » A sniff of democracy (aka ACK vote)
| Re: A sniff of democracy (aka ACK vote) [message #224695 is a reply to message #224561] |
Thu, 05 October 2006 03:35   |
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Crimson
Messages: 7427
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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General (5 Stars)
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Over the past 3 and a half years I've been running this forum, I have been approached time and time again asking why I don't ban him and why I let him get away with being verbally abusive to so many people. I have apologized to those people for not considering their feelings on the matter enough, and this poll is to make amends to those people that I have ignored all these years. I don't care either way where the votes goes, but now at least those people can't say I didn't try. If this were a retalitory measure for ACK's betrayal against me, then Spoony would have a poll up with his name on it along with several others. Don't misread the intent of this poll. I clearly stated it at the first post.
I'm the bawss.
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| Re: A sniff of democracy (aka ACK vote) [message #224696 is a reply to message #224692] |
Thu, 05 October 2006 03:36 |
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Ryu
Messages: 2833
Registered: September 2006
Location: Liverpool, England.
Karma: 0
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| Sniper_De7 wrote on Thu, 05 October 2006 05:19 |
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| Matix wrote on Wed, 04 October 2006 20:47 |
Why say we have hatred against you, if you voted yourself out? Personally, no one gives a shit about you, you could die right now, no one would care about you except your beloved family & friends. As "Moee" has mentioned, behind all is a good person, but behind aircraftkiller, is really an asscrackfiller. G?g
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Who the fuck are you to judge him? You're like, what, 14? Not only that, but you stole other people's work and said it was your own, apparently. You ran your own server, and you CHEATED in it(which, granted you're apparently not alone in this, but it's still a shitty thing to do) Not only that, but when bbence got caught cheating by doubling his firing rate with ramjet, what did you do? Oh yeah, NOTHING. Maybe everyone should go into your server with cheats on, because apparently moderators can cheat at will? Of course, that would mean that you'd have less of an advantage while playing, and that would suck. Because you, for some reason, place yourself above other people who just want to have fun, and so you cheat. How about you intend to grow up, and be mature? It comes with responsibility of owning something. As for no one caring about him, the same could be said for pretty much damned everybody if they haven't even MET the person. I don't give a shit about you and that's expected. If ack *did* happen to pass, at least he's done something for the community, what little or a lot that may be to anyone's opinion. Can't exactly say the same for you now, can we, cheater?
Oh, i won't even touch on the fact that you pretend to be other people :\
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Owned. 
Presence is a curious thing, if you think you need to prove it... you probably never had it in the first place.
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| Re: A sniff of democracy (aka ACK vote) [message #224698 is a reply to message #224695] |
Thu, 05 October 2006 04:04 |
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Sniper_De7
Messages: 866
Registered: April 2004
Location: Wisconsin
Karma: 0
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| Crimson wrote on Thu, 05 October 2006 05:35 |
Over the past 3 and a half years I've been running this forum, I have been approached time and time again asking why I don't ban him and why I let him get away with being verbally abusive to so many people. I have apologized to those people for not considering their feelings on the matter enough, and this poll is to make amends to those people that I have ignored all these years. I don't care either way where the votes goes, but now at least those people can't say I didn't try. If this were a retalitory measure for ACK's betrayal against me, then Spoony would have a poll up with his name on it along with several others. Don't misread the intent of this poll. I clearly stated it at the first post.
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All I was saying, was that if he hadn't gotten involved in this whole "business", this poll would never have happened. That's why it's ironic, that, at the moment of the end (if he's banned) that it wasn't the fact that he was flaming some mod maker in the end, but that it was him telling the truth (going so far as to go against someone he's known for 5 years or whatever) [There's a quote somewhere about how it takes much greater courage to stand up against your friends than your enemies. Or something.] that lead to his ban. I don't intend to mean you are retaliating against him. I also don't mean to say that he hasn't done some bad things. He has. He's done some good things, too, more for this community than I have done. I'm just a player and all I really care about is playing the game for fun. All I was pointing out was that he has done some good, and that you can flame him for "turning against you" when he just wanted to clear up the fact that it wasn't spoony who was lying, when you said he was lying, while at the same time it was you. Something, I would deem "good". I don't necessarily say that it was right to use private conversations to show that it wasn't spoony lying, but what choice would he have had, if you weren't going to? I try to be laissez-faire as I can. I mean, Ack has done things million of others has done before him, it's just because he's "known" that he gets more recognition of it. If you think he's the only asshole here, you would be wrong.
Oderint, dum metuant.
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. - Theodore "Teddy" Roosevelt
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| Re: A sniff of democracy (aka ACK vote) [message #224700 is a reply to message #224561] |
Thu, 05 October 2006 04:14 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7427
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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General (5 Stars)
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To say that his betrayal of me ultimately led to this poll is true, and I stood by him all these years because even though he was a complete dickhead towards people who didn't deserve it, he did do a lot for the community. There are people who like him, people who hate him, people who are indifferent. That's why I said people should vote based on their own opinion of whether or not he should be allowed to continue to post here.
To say that this poll came about because he betrayed me is like saying that the US nuked Japan because the guy who led the project was born. Just because the end event probably wouldn't have happened without the first event doesn't mean that the first event was the direct causation of the second event. It also doesn't mean the second event was something that shouldn't have happened.
I'm the bawss.
[Updated on: Thu, 05 October 2006 04:15] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: A sniff of democracy (aka ACK vote) [message #224701 is a reply to message #224561] |
Thu, 05 October 2006 04:26 |
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Sniper_De7
Messages: 866
Registered: April 2004
Location: Wisconsin
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Look, all I'm saying is that it was something he did *good* that ultimately lead him to the situation we are at now, at banning him. I said I found this ironic. I'm not trying to imply that this ban poll is from the fact that he posted the conversations, but that it is IRONIC that if it wasn't for the fact that he did something good, that he would never have had a poll to ban him. I am not trying to imply anything here.. I know that this poll is about *EVERYTHING* he's done and that it's because of his own actions that also lead him to here. But I said I find it ironic that one of the few good things he's done, is the reason why this poll is ultimately here now. If he didn't do what he did, this poll would most-probably never have existed for the duration of renegade. Don't take this as implying something bad or terrible. If he deserves to get banned, he probably will. By the way, I assume you're going to take off double votes, if they're the same IP, right?
Oderint, dum metuant.
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. - Theodore "Teddy" Roosevelt
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| Re: A sniff of democracy (aka ACK vote) [message #224702 is a reply to message #224561] |
Thu, 05 October 2006 04:45 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7427
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
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I think whether what he did was "good" is a matter of opinion, but sure. The votes can only come from registered accounts and there hasn't been some strange influx of new accounts, so I don't see any reason to figure out how to hax the database to change the poll results.
I'm the bawss.
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| Re: A sniff of democracy (aka ACK vote) [message #224703 is a reply to message #224561] |
Thu, 05 October 2006 04:55 |
PackHunter
Messages: 487
Registered: November 2004
Location: Holland
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Voted YES! Didn't take me long to think about it too. Allthough he has his funny moments too, the stuff he did (like leaking beta's) would have had him earn a ban on other forums too. This should have happend a long time ago too. There are now a few dozen ack copycats posting on these forums, that think it is ok to just turn every thread into an all out bashing. It's a pitty it took Ack bashing you personally to see this. But hell, better late then never.
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| Re: A sniff of democracy (aka ACK vote) [message #224704 is a reply to message #224561] |
Thu, 05 October 2006 05:19 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7427
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Man, I forgot about him leaking the Reborn beta (more than once)... I don't know who he got it from but I'm sure they can agree with me that he has an uncanny ability to talk you into doing things you never thought you would do.
I'm the bawss.
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| Re: A sniff of democracy (aka ACK vote) [message #224706 is a reply to message #224695] |
Thu, 05 October 2006 05:36 |
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Ryan3k
Messages: 363
Registered: September 2004
Location: USA
Karma: 0
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| Crimson wrote on Thu, 05 October 2006 05:35 |
Over the past 3 and a half years I've been running this forum, I have been approached time and time again asking why I don't ban him and why I let him get away with being verbally abusive to so many people. I have apologized to those people for not considering their feelings on the matter enough, and this poll is to make amends to those people that I have ignored all these years. I don't care either way where the votes goes, but now at least those people can't say I didn't try. If this were a retalitory measure for ACK's betrayal against me, then Spoony would have a poll up with his name on it along with several others. Don't misread the intent of this poll. I clearly stated it at the first post.
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Banning ACK now would be too little, too late. You're just trying to save face when the damage to your reputation for accommodating him (as well as others, like Kholdstare) has already been done. It's time to suck it up, and move on.
A Path Beyond
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| Re: A sniff of democracy (aka ACK vote) [message #224710 is a reply to message #224561] |
Thu, 05 October 2006 05:48 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7427
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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And by the way, this IS moving on. It is business as usual for me. I "moved on" from being focused on the stupid shit a while ago. I'm just working on cleaning up the messy aftermath of the most retarded flame war/spam fest ever seen. However, I am also working with Silent Kane to get ladder support for XWIS, arranged a partnership with BlackIntel for BHS, and working on two separate revitalization projects for n00bstories.
I am just giving the community a place to kindly ask Aircraftkiller to leave the community in body as it's obvious he left it in spirit months ago. Remember that those logs he posted don't make him out to look like a fresh rose garden.
I'm the bawss.
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| Re: A sniff of democracy (aka ACK vote) [message #224712 is a reply to message #224561] |
Thu, 05 October 2006 06:16 |
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m1a1_abrams
Messages: 375
Registered: August 2003
Karma: 0
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In my opinion, this is why Blazer's common sense approach to moderating doesn't work. If there aren't any rules of conduct laid down and you just rely on moderators' common sense to decide when people have gone too far, you'll always have a feeling of injustice. By it's own definition, common sense can't be strictly defined, so will mean different things to different people. One person will think that someone has done enough to be banned or to take a vote on it, whereas another will not. Ultimately the decision hinges on the personal taste and whimsy of the moderator. If that's the way you choose to run the forums, then you have the right to do so, but you can't really call it a fair system.
I get the feeling that it matters to the admins here to be seen as fair, in which case you need to be seen to apply the same rules to everyone. A good start would be having a visible set of rules pertaining to conduct. Don't get me wrong though, I think the admins try hard to treat everyone the same, but it's tough to see this in practice, when the rules effectively exist only inside your head. The rules could be as strict or lenient as you like, as long as there is a reason listed somewhere for why Aircraftkiller or anyone else is doing something wrong. As it stands, as much as I disagree with the stuff he's done in the past, I can't see a reason why he should be banned. The only reason would be on moral grounds, I guess, but again, you don't enforce rules of conduct... so what rule is he breaking? I guess you could say that because it's been put up for a vote, he should be banned simply because people might want him to be... but then it's an arbitrary decision on the part of Crimson to open the poll in the first place. Will it now be a rule that anyone can open a poll to get someone else banned, and then have the will of the people enforced, or can only a moderator do it... in which case we return to the beginning because there are no clear-cut guidelines for what kind of conduct requires a poll opened.
I'm not gonna vote on this. I say draw up some definite example of what people can and cannot do, before punishing them for anything. This is not a personal attack on the admins, by the way. I realise it can be difficult to tell who's gunning for you and who isn't, in a situation like this, with that giant thread running.
[Updated on: Thu, 05 October 2006 06:18] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: A sniff of democracy (aka ACK vote) [message #224747 is a reply to message #224561] |
Thu, 05 October 2006 09:04 |
snipefrag
Messages: 291
Registered: February 2003
Location: UK, hampshire
Karma: 0
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Meh, its kind of sad to see the Renegade Community is so stagnated that everyone is just taking pot shots at each other. IMO ACK should have been banned years ago for just being a rude bastard and scaring people away who really could have developed into talented map makers.. and who knows might have even taken it up as a profession like my brother (Halo38) will be doing. Im sure Crimson kept him around because she felt that his contribution in terms of maps/etc justified it, after coming back and having a brief reading of the posts made here its obvious that ACK still has some serious issues.. If you really dont care about this place anymore then fuck off and let the people who want to enjoy Renedage and develop it further do it.
All the people here who are still enjoying the game, keeping in contact with friends or working to better the game in their own time i aplaud you. As for the rest of the community.. Just look at yourselves, your actually at the point where your attacking someones character and trying to make scape goats to keep yourselves occupied. Coming back and taking a look at this place and seeing how absolutely negative it has become fills me with sadness, what is really needed here is some good old fasioned trimming.. remove the deadwood that are only adding negativity and hopefully some new life will be breathed into the community... How would you feal if you just bought Renegade gave it a whirl, enjoyed the game and decided to get involved in the community just to get shot down by someone like ACK on one of his regular ego trips.
But hell what does my input stand for, i havent been active in the community for over 2 years.. All i know is that ACK always stood behind the fact that he had "done more for the community than <insert random person>" now he isnt and he is still being an asshole so take out that ban stick and go to town.
Snipefrag - Br20 Cr5 - TR Emerald
Planetside Chapter Commander - Archangels
http://www.archangelsclan.net
[Updated on: Thu, 05 October 2006 09:08] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: A sniff of democracy (aka ACK vote) [message #224754 is a reply to message #224561] |
Thu, 05 October 2006 09:45 |
fl00d3d
Messages: 1107
Registered: August 2003
Location: Iowa, USA
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General (1 Star)
Viva la Resistance! |
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ACK can be a straight up dick, but then again - so can a lot of people (myself included). Years ago when there was a lot of drama going around about RenGuard ACK actually heard me out on AIM and got my perspective on things.
I think he's just someone who is "smart but don't care". Those types of people aren't exactly the most welcomed in gaming communities, but nonetheless if this is a TRUE democratic vote ... I vote 'no'. Hopefully my vote can be respected as "a vote".
| Matix wrote on Wed, 04 October 2006 20:47 |
Why say we have hatred against you, if you voted yourself out? Personally, no one gives a shit about you, you could die right now, no one would care about you except your beloved family & friends. As "Moee" has mentioned, behind all is a good person, but behind aircraftkiller, is really an asscrackfiller. G?g
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^^This is coming from a 14 boy who runs a server admin'd by cheaters and steals other people's work. Matix = teh-pwnerer, owner of rencorner ... king of 'worthless piece of junk'. Seriously, kid - just stfu and find a new forum. If I had it my way, Crimson would ban you back to the stoneage for not only cheating, but because you steal so many people's identities and work. You're a thorn in the side of our community. Just die, pls.
| "Crimson" |
Do not use this thread to discuss who else you think should be banned. Posts in this thread on other subjects will be relocated.
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If my last few statements crossed the line, please feel free to remove them. I just now noticed this quote. Sorry.
[Updated on: Thu, 05 October 2006 09:49] Report message to a moderator |
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