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Re: Jesus [message #216409 is a reply to message #216369]

Thu, 31 August 2006 03:07

Scythar
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Colonel

Crimson wrote on Wed, 30 August 2006 21:19

Scythar wrote on Wed, 30 August 2006 07:02

What Crimson, for example, is doing is trying to spread (more or less) the idea that we should accept "God doesn't exist" into the category of absolute truths of ours, and not really spend any more time thinking about such unprobable and outright silly things. Same applies inversely to theists.

You failed 100%. I never said that you should accept that as an absolute truth. I am speaking to those who don't consider it a possibility, and suggest that they consider it as a possibility.

But why do you say some people should find flaws in their faiths and then couple posts later you say some people should find Jesus?

Isn't faith just that: a state in where you believe into something 100%? If you accept flaws and consider that your target of devotion might not be true, or otherwise question it,it's no longer faith, is it? The more you accept the possibility that God doesn't exist, the more you lose your faith.

Unless you just think of religion as a cure for treating asshats. Those who are not asshats should not believe, while idiots should believe, to become better human beings.

There's a hole in the sky through which things can fly.

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Re: Jesus [message #216421 is a reply to message #216392]

Thu, 31 August 2006 04:48

warranto
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Crimson wrote on Wed, 30 August 2006 23:41

warranto wrote on Wed, 30 August 2006 06:04

The Christian faith is NOT the absolute authority on all-things-God.

I'm sure Christians would disagree with that. This is your opinion. I agree with it, but it's still an opinion. It's POSSIBLE that the Christian faith has it 100% right, and while it is possible, you can't state for a fact that it's not.

Exactly.

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Re: Jesus [message #216460 is a reply to message #216409]

Thu, 31 August 2006 08:32

Blazer
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Scythar wrote on Thu, 31 August 2006 06:07

Isn't faith just that: a state in where you believe into something 100%? If you accept flaws and consider that your target of devotion might not be true, or otherwise question it,it's no longer faith,

Isn't faith actually, by definition, believing in something even though there is no proof, and even though there is doubt, and even though there are logical flaws?

Dictionary.com has this for its 2nd definition of faith:

2.	belief that is not based on proof:

So it seems that faith doesn't mean 100% blind devotion...you can still consider other possibilities. In fact, if you permitted yourself to consider flaws in the target of your devotion, and believed in it anyway, wouldn't that in fact mean that you had even more faith?

[Updated on: Thu, 31 August 2006 08:35]

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Re: Jesus [message #216498 is a reply to message #216421]

Thu, 31 August 2006 13:06

Crimson
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warranto wrote on Thu, 31 August 2006 04:48

Crimson wrote on Wed, 30 August 2006 23:41

warranto wrote on Wed, 30 August 2006 06:04

The Christian faith is NOT the absolute authority on all-things-God.

I'm sure Christians would disagree with that. This is your opinion. I agree with it, but it's still an opinion. It's POSSIBLE that the Christian faith has it 100% right, and while it is possible, you can't state for a fact that it's not.

Exactly.

Then why did you do it?

I'm the bawss.

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Re: Jesus [message #216500 is a reply to message #215250]

Thu, 31 August 2006 13:21

warranto
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To get you to acknowledge that it is possible that a religion can be correct.

This acknowledgment then lets me start into the idea that if you can acknowledge that there is a possibility that at least one religion may have it right, then it lessens your argument about comparing God imaginary friends and the current marketing-idea of Santa Clause. Somehow I doubt you'd be willing to argue that imaginary friends and Santa Clause "might" be real.

[Updated on: Thu, 31 August 2006 13:21]

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Re: Jesus [message #216502 is a reply to message #215250]

Thu, 31 August 2006 13:23

Hydra
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Colonel

According to string theory, they ARE real.

Walter Keith Koester: September 22, 1962 - March 15, 2005
God be with you, Uncle Wally.

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Re: Jesus [message #216539 is a reply to message #215250]

Thu, 31 August 2006 16:31

Crimson
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The problem is, I already do acknowledge that one religion might have it right. However, I still feel that "God" is an imaginary friend. As I said before, I have been exposed to religion and even as a small child in perfect brainwashing age, it never took. I always knew the idea was insane and once I discovered that there were other people who didn't believe it, I knew I was a part of that for now and forever.

I'm the bawss.

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Re: Jesus [message #216571 is a reply to message #216539]

Thu, 31 August 2006 18:18

cheesesoda
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Crimson

I already do acknowledge that one religion might have it right

Crimson

I always knew the idea was insane

...

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Re: Jesus [message #216575 is a reply to message #216502]

Thu, 31 August 2006 19:23

jnz
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Hydra wrote on Thu, 31 August 2006 21:23

According to string theory, they ARE real.

that was random

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Re: Jesus [message #216584 is a reply to message #215250]

Thu, 31 August 2006 20:39

DarkDemin
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What everyone has seemed to miss from this topic is the fact that one of us is wrong. So, if one of us is wrong and only the athiests will get the repercussions of being wrong, then you might as well be associated with a religion becuase that way if you were right you win.

That or you can live a good life and not berate people just becuase they believe in something different, it all works out.

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Re: Jesus [message #216591 is a reply to message #215250]

Thu, 31 August 2006 21:32

Crimson
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Pascal's wager... that's a good one. Sorry, but I can't pretend to believe in something I don't. How the hell would that get me into "heaven"?

I'm the bawss.

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Re: Jesus [message #216593 is a reply to message #216584]

Thu, 31 August 2006 21:38

xptek
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DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 31 August 2006 23:39

So, if one of us is wrong and only the athiests will get the repercussions of being wrong, then you might as well be associated with a religion becuase that way if you were right you win.

That is possibly the stupidest reason to follow a religion ever.

cause = time

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Re: Jesus [message #216594 is a reply to message #216593]

Thu, 31 August 2006 21:46

cheesesoda
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xptek wrote on Fri, 01 September 2006 00:38

DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 31 August 2006 23:39

So, if one of us is wrong and only the athiests will get the repercussions of being wrong, then you might as well be associated with a religion becuase that way if you were right you win.

That is possibly the stupidest reason to follow a religion ever.

Exactly. If this is the reason why you believe in God, then God is going to see right through your ploy and it'll fail, so basically you've done nothing but forced yourself to play Christian and still failed at tricking God. God can't be made to look like a fool, however, humans can. Wink

Wink

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Re: Jesus [message #216612 is a reply to message #215250]

Fri, 01 September 2006 01:14

Crimson
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I completely agree. My current belief structure falls thus: There MAY be a "God". I do not believe he exists, but if he does, so long as I strive to be good to others and/or not harm them, then I believe that is enough to get the eternal reward should one exist.

I'm the bawss.

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Re: Jesus [message #216613 is a reply to message #216612]

Fri, 01 September 2006 01:52

puddle_splasher
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Location: Scotland, UK

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Colonel

8 pages later and we are finally heading for some normality.

The subject has been discussed, ripped apart, opinions and beliefs given.

Now the short sharp statements are being given.

So far Crimson is one of the few, with a view that is logical, credible and entirely understandable without lots of words in between. Big Ups

Big Ups

[Updated on: Fri, 01 September 2006 07:09]

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Re: Jesus [message #216616 is a reply to message #216613]

Fri, 01 September 2006 02:33

Goztow
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Goztoe

puddle_splasher wrote on Fri, 01 September 2006 10:52

8 pages later and we are finally heading for some normality.

The subject has been discussed, ripped apart, opinions and beliefs given.

Now the short sharp statements are being given.

So far Crimson is one of the few, with a view that is logical, credible and entirely understanable without lots of words in between. Big Ups

Big Ups

Define what you mean with "logical". Oh, maybe you mean your own way of finding things logical, then I must agree with you.

As for understandable: if a scientist explains chemical formulas to his colleague, that will be completely understandable for the colleague but for most people it will not be. You cannot understand religion if you didn't study it. That's why you in particular do not understand the other's views.

You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord

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Re: Jesus [message #216648 is a reply to message #216616]

Fri, 01 September 2006 07:08

puddle_splasher
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Colonel

Goztow wrote on Fri, 01 September 2006 04:33

puddle_splasher wrote on Fri, 01 September 2006 10:52

8 pages later and we are finally heading for some normality.

The subject has been discussed, ripped apart, opinions and beliefs given.

Now the short sharp statements are being given.

So far Crimson is one of the few, with a view that is logical, credible and entirely understandable without lots of words in between. Big Ups

Big Ups

Define what you mean with "logical". Oh, maybe you mean your own way of finding things logical, then I must agree with you.

As for understandable: if a scientist explains chemical formulas to his colleague, that will be completely understandable for the colleague but for most people it will not be. You cannot understand religion if you didn't study it. That's why you in particular do not understand the other's views.

Hey HOLD ON, matey.

I for one am very much likely "IN PARTICULAR" to understand that everyone has different views.

Im not the one saying "I KNOW THERE IS A GOD or I KNOW THERE IS NOT A GOD" so dont give me any of your BS.

Never once have I forced any views on anyone nor have I rubbished any other persons views.

So please dont start the flaming now as the discussion appears to be coming to a close.

[Updated on: Fri, 01 September 2006 07:09]

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Re: Jesus [message #216657 is a reply to message #216648]

Fri, 01 September 2006 07:56

Hydra
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Colonel

puddle_splasher wrote on Fri, 01 September 2006 10:08

Never once have I... rubbished any other persons views.

Quote:

Don't we just love Religious Zealots.

You are just the same as the Muslim race. Only problem there, is that they came after Christianity.

....

However science can and frequently rips the Old Testament apart with stone cold, hard facts.

....

Do not let yourself become brainwashed....

Quote:

You are brainwashed and unable to think for yourself

Quit talking or get the hell out.

Walter Keith Koester: September 22, 1962 - March 15, 2005
God be with you, Uncle Wally.

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Re: Jesus [message #216670 is a reply to message #216657]

Fri, 01 September 2006 08:52

puddle_splasher
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Colonel

I believe as previosly stated in a "Supreme Being".

Therefore, although I am not a Christian, in your eyes that appears to make me a non-believer?

I dont need to be told what to think and even if you try to change my views, I wont change them. nor will I ask anyone to change their views.

Understand that this topic was a discussion and not an arguement. It was not meant to have folk flaming and getting angry. This is life not a classroom. people will always have a variety of views.

Now i personally have followed this topic with zest. Many good arguments and statements from both sides have put forward and thats all its been. Thats all it was meant to be.

But to say to someone for daring to have any view regardless of how you personally interpret it is wrong.

The phrase used "Quit talking or get the hell out." is highly inappropriate.

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Re: Jesus [message #216671 is a reply to message #215250]

Fri, 01 September 2006 09:02

warranto
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General (2 Stars)

Quote:

It was not meant to have folk flaming and getting angry.

Hmm.. I think calling people "brainwashed" for believing what they do qualifies as flaming.

Quote:

The phrase used "Quit talking or get the hell out." is highly inappropriate.

I think I'd prefer that, than some of the insults you've thrown.

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Re: Jesus [message #216693 is a reply to message #216612]

Fri, 01 September 2006 11:11

DarkDemin
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General (1 Star)

Crimson wrote on Fri, 01 September 2006 04:14

I completely agree. My current belief structure falls thus: There MAY be a "God". I do not believe he exists, but if he does, so long as I strive to be good to others and/or not harm them, then I believe that is enough to get the eternal reward should one exist.

That is pretty much what I was trying to get at. But really is believing in Him going to hurt you in anyway, shape, or form?

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[Updated on: Fri, 01 September 2006 11:14]

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Re: Jesus [message #216705 is a reply to message #215250]

Fri, 01 September 2006 14:39

Crimson
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Yeah, I can't make myself believe in something when all logic in my brain tells me otherwise. :\

I'm the bawss.

[Updated on: Fri, 01 September 2006 14:39]

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Re: Jesus [message #216743 is a reply to message #215250]

Fri, 01 September 2006 18:14

Dover
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General (2 Stars)

Fuck, in the time it takes me to get back to my own Country this topic has doubled in size. Can anyone give me a quick summary?

DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19

Remember kids the internet is serious business.

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Re: Jesus [message #216750 is a reply to message #216743]

Fri, 01 September 2006 18:43

cheesesoda
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General (5 Stars)

Dover wrote on Fri, 01 September 2006 21:14

Fuck, in the time it takes me to get back to my own Country this topic has doubled in size. Can anyone give me a quick summary?

I'm sure you've seen other religion debate threads. Take a wild guess at what this one was about.

Libertarian Party | The King's Throne | The Soda Shop

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Re: Jesus [message #216769 is a reply to message #216705]

Fri, 01 September 2006 21:33

warranto
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Crimson wrote on Fri, 01 September 2006 15:39

Yeah, I can't make myself believe in something when all logic in my brain tells me otherwise. :\

Only because it's convenient (and yes, for the majority of people that applies to BOTH sides of the arguemnt).

I say this based on your over-all argument regarding the "invisible friend" example.

Of course, that would then apply to anything you had no physical proof on. And no, I'm not going back to that whole current science examples, I mean things of a lesser physical entity.

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