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| Re: hope none of you are them [message #208012 is a reply to message #207979] |
Fri, 14 July 2006 01:59   |
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Scythar
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| Berkut wrote on Fri, 14 July 2006 01:32 |
When any other gods start saving my life on a regular basis, I'll thank them.
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But that's like saying "when any other gods starts lifting things around in my house, I'll believe them" or "When I see any other gods, I acknowledge them". How could you know if some other god hasn't already rescued you from a close call situation? It's not like the divine folks leave a message on paper after each time they save you. My point is that you'd praise your current god for whatever miracles happen, making your statement a bit more complicated. You don't believe in other gods, and so you won't thank them. How can you be sure that if you experience some religiously rich sensation, it's your god, the right god, that's causing it?
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What makes it so hard to admit to doing wrong?
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The problem isn't in people not admitting they've done wrong. I'm betting about 98% of us on this planet admit that we've done something bad in our lives.
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And (as some people have), to denounce God and risk Hell just because God offered a way out of it? Where's the sense in that?
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If there was a religion that believed that there are 16 Great Guardians of the sun, and if you don't believe in them, your spirit eternally burns in sun after you die, would you believe in them? You know, just not to risk it...it could be true, after all, no?
Yeah, you don't believe it. You don't believe that your spirit would burn in sun, so there's not much to risk. Same applies to your question. People aren't bothered by things they don't believe in. Makes perfect sense. I swear, if I had to start worrying about every faith and religion in this world to avoid bad things, I'd go nuts.
There's a hole in the sky through which things can fly.
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| Re: hope none of you are them [message #208013 is a reply to message #208012] |
Fri, 14 July 2006 02:03 |
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GrayWolf
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| Scythar wrote on Fri, 14 July 2006 09:59 |
| Berkut wrote on Fri, 14 July 2006 01:32 |
When any other gods start saving my life on a regular basis, I'll thank them.
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But that's like saying "when any other gods starts lifting things around in my house, I'll believe them" or "When I see any other gods, I acknowledge them". How could you know if some other god hasn't already rescued you from a close call situation? It's not like the divine folks leave a message on paper after each time they save you. My point is that you'd praise your current god for whatever miracles happen, making your statement a bit more complicated. You don't believe in other gods, and so you won't thank them. How can you be sure that if you experience some religiously rich sensation, it's your god, the right god, that's causing it?
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I think he means saving as in dieing and saving him from his sins. Or maybe he means literally saving his life I don't know.
Just saying that cuz i was trying to figure that out too
Some of my renegade stuff.
[Updated on: Fri, 14 July 2006 02:07] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: hope none of you are them [message #208014 is a reply to message #208007] |
Fri, 14 July 2006 02:24 |
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Scythar
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| GrayWolf wrote on Fri, 14 July 2006 04:42 |
...If you truly believe Jesus died on the cross for your sins and you ask him into your heart and acknowledge you are a sinner when you die you will go to heaven. There is nothing you can do to go to heaven the only way is Jesus...
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Believe in Jesus as the son of the omnipotent God, or as a human that existed? Just asking because a lot of folk believe he existed, but he was just a man which we made divine with our writings, not divine to begin with. If I believe Jesus existed, and even believe he died for our sins because he wanted to, does that take me up there? I already know I've done bad things in my life, just like most other folks, and I'm sure I won't stop believing so when I die. This doesn't even require me to believe in any supernatural force, just to a man who lived and was, perhaps, a philosophist who decided to die for us for whatever reason.
Nice to see folks who actually read the book, there's a lot of christian folks around who haven't even read it. Even I've read most of the Old Testament and I don't really believe in it.
I don't think we have that many bashers on this board, people are pretty open-minded, it seems.
There's a hole in the sky through which things can fly.
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| Re: hope none of you are them [message #208016 is a reply to message #208014] |
Fri, 14 July 2006 02:37 |
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GrayWolf
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| Scythar wrote on Fri, 14 July 2006 11:24 |
| GrayWolf wrote on Fri, 14 July 2006 04:42 |
...If you truly believe Jesus died on the cross for your sins and you ask him into your heart and acknowledge you are a sinner when you die you will go to heaven. There is nothing you can do to go to heaven the only way is Jesus...
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Believe in Jesus as the son of the omnipotent God, or as a human that existed? Just asking because a lot of folk believe he existed, but he was just a man which we made divine with our writings, not divine to begin with. If I believe Jesus existed, and even believe he died for our sins because he wanted to, does that take me up there? I already know I've done bad things in my life, just like most other folks, and I'm sure I won't stop believing so when I die. This doesn't even require me to believe in any supernatural force, just to a man who lived and was, perhaps, a philosophist who decided to die for us for whatever reason.
Nice to see folks who actually read the book, there's a lot of christian folks around who haven't even read it. Even I've read most of the Old Testament and I don't really believe in it.
I don't think we have that many bashers on this board, people are pretty open-minded, it seems.
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This is hard to explain without explaining the trinity. The trinity is the father, the holy spirit, and Jesus. All parts make up God...
Best I can explain it without going into great detail.
Scythar asked
"Believe in Jesus as the son of the omnipotent God, or as a human that existed?"
The bible says both. Jesus is fully God and fully man.
Scythar asked
"If I believe Jesus existed, and even believe he died for our sins because he wanted to, does that take me up there?"
The bible say's that Yes if you believe Jesus existed, and believe he died for your sins because he wanted to, and that he rose from death and ascended into heaven you will be saved and go to heaven.
You brought up a good point.
Jesus came to earth knowing full well he was going to die for us, and rose from death, defeating death. He wanted this because he loves us. We are his creation.
Also thank you for being so polite.
Some of my renegade stuff.
[Updated on: Fri, 14 July 2006 03:05] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: hope none of you are them [message #208036 is a reply to message #208010] |
Fri, 14 July 2006 07:07 |
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Dave Mason
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| GrayWolf wrote on Fri, 14 July 2006 09:58 |
| Crimson wrote on Fri, 14 July 2006 00:26 |
Well, I bought a "Yo God!" meter. If God exists, all he has to do is move the little needle over to "Yes". While it stays on "No", I will continue to believe he doesn't exist. It arrives soon.
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Mat 4:7 Jesus said to him, “Again it is written, ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.”
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How convenient...
www.myspace.com/midas
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| Re: hope none of you are them [message #208074 is a reply to message #207824] |
Fri, 14 July 2006 12:58 |
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NukeIt15
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Remember this, though. No one can tell you what to believe, only what they believe. The rest is up to you.
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QFT. From any perspective, regardless of why you said that, it is quite possibly the most universally applicable thing I've ever seen anybody say in a thread like this. Lots of folks will try very hard to show you their door, but only you can make the decision to go through it or hold back. That goes for anybody, regardless of what they believe.
One thing I'd like to pick on a bit, and I realize that I always do this when these threads crop up- Atheism is not a faith. I am an atheist because I believe in no gods. Anybody in this thread who believes in one God is a monotheist. Atheism is simply a blanket grouping for any number of beliefs or belief systems that hinge on the key point that there are no such things as gods. That's it; that's all there is to it. You might meet one person who is an atheist who believes there is nothing but the physical, observable world, and you might meet another the very next moment who believes in an afterlife, ghosts, spontaneous generation, etc. Atheism is no more specific than Monotheism or Polytheism, as it defines only one aspect of any given person's faith. Don't fall into the trap of assuming all Atheists believe in the same exact things.
I believe in the infinite. I do not believe there ever was an absolute beginning, nor do I believe there ever will be an absolute end. What we see now is only a moment in an infinite chain of events. Death, therefore, cannot be the end of existence. I do not believe anyone can see or understand the true nature of what lies beyond death, but there must be something- or we wouldn't be here at all. The only absolute is that there are no limits; there is no power that cannot be reached- but that also means that there can be no supreme, insurmountable power. Therefore, even if we were as a race created, our creator would not by definition be a god- merely someone or something so far beyond our present understanding as to appear godlike. Humanity could some day reach such a level, and continue to grow far beyond- perhaps death is merely the next step higher.
Right or wrong, that's what I believe to be true.
"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived of the use of them." - Thomas Paine
Remember, kids: illiteracy is cool. If you took the time to read this, you are clearly a loser who will never get laid. You've been warned.
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| Re: hope none of you are them [message #208102 is a reply to message #208074] |
Fri, 14 July 2006 15:03 |
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Scythar
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| NukeIt15 wrote on Fri, 14 July 2006 15:58 |
I believe in the infinite. I do not believe there ever was an absolute beginning, nor do I believe there ever will be an absolute end. What we see now is only a moment in an infinite chain of events. Death, therefore, cannot be the end of existence. I do not believe anyone can see or understand the true nature of what lies beyond death, but there must be something- or we wouldn't be here at all. The only absolute is that there are no limits; there is no power that cannot be reached- but that also means that there can be no supreme, insurmountable power. Therefore, even if we were as a race created, our creator would not by definition be a god- merely someone or something so far beyond our present understanding as to appear godlike. Humanity could some day reach such a level, and continue to grow far beyond- perhaps death is merely the next step higher.
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Yeah this is a very interesting point of view, I've thought about it sometimes too. It also means that these "gods" probably wage wars against other ones just like we here. They form alliances and ultimately try to gain as much control as possible, just like us. Even if the human race knew there was no end the existence, and gaining everything was not possible, I'm pretty sure something would still be driving us to succeed as far as possible, and gain as much as we can. But we haven't really taken even the first steps on this infinite ladder.
There's a hole in the sky through which things can fly.
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| Re: hope none of you are them [message #208118 is a reply to message #208102] |
Fri, 14 July 2006 17:44 |
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IronWarrior
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[quote title=Scythar wrote on Fri, 14 July 2006 17:03]| NukeIt15 wrote on Fri, 14 July 2006 15:58 |
I believe in the infinite. I do not believe there ever was an absolute beginning, nor do I believe there ever will be an absolute end. What we see now is only a moment in an infinite chain of events. Death, therefore, cannot be the end of existence. I do not believe anyone can see or understand the true nature of what lies beyond death, but there must be something- or we wouldn't be here at all. The only absolute is that there are no limits; there is no power that cannot be reached- but that also means that there can be no supreme, insurmountable power. Therefore, even if we were as a race created, our creator would not by definition be a god- merely someone or something so far beyond our present understanding as to appear godlike. Humanity could some day reach such a level, and continue to grow far beyond- perhaps death is merely the next step higher.
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This is what I belive myself regarnding to to something that is is far ahead of us and has god like powers, who knows a vast power out there could had made us and would be our "god" but would we become our own gods one day when we crate life outselfs`? I think so, one day, who knows.
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| Re: hope none of you are them [message #208143 is a reply to message #208130] |
Fri, 14 July 2006 23:28 |
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IronWarrior
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| GrayWolf wrote on Fri, 14 July 2006 23:23 |
I don't think humanity will ever be able to create life...
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Why not? we already on our first steps on cloning dogs and sheep.. and there are people who want to move onto the next step and clone humans...
Its all about genes and modding crap, you take something and remodel the genens and you make something elas.. like rats with human ears and crap..
There is nothing we can do now, the only limit is our knownage.
| mrpirate wrote on Fri, 14 July 2006 22:38 |
There are some people who believe that consciousness is a byproduct of data processing. So while it may be outside the scope of science to create biological life from nothing (maybe it's not, I'm no biologist) perhaps it's possible that we will create--and have been creating--machines that are conscious in some way or another.
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Yes I agree, this is why we should be careful in building rebots.
[Updated on: Fri, 14 July 2006 23:30] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: hope none of you are them [message #208145 is a reply to message #207824] |
Sat, 15 July 2006 00:07 |
icedog90
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Animals that are being cloned today aren't being created, but modified to share the same genes as the animal they were taken from. Humans aren't creating life when they do that. They're only modifying it.
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| Re: hope none of you are them [message #208147 is a reply to message #207824] |
Sat, 15 July 2006 00:21 |
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GrayWolf
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I take back what I said. Humans create life all the time... Sex. lol
I should have phrased it like this. Humans will never create life from scratch.
Cloning isn't creating life. Cloning still needs the use of a mother. No life has been created in a lab or a jar or anywhere from scratch its impossible. At least impossible for humans. I believe God is the only one who can create life from scratch. I do not believe life just randomly just started.
Some of my renegade stuff.
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| Re: hope none of you are them [message #208152 is a reply to message #208147] |
Sat, 15 July 2006 01:04 |
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IronWarrior
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| GrayWolf wrote on Sat, 15 July 2006 02:21 |
I take back what I said. Humans create life all the time... Sex. lol
I should have phrased it like this. Humans will never create life from scratch.
Cloning isn't creating life. Cloning still needs the use of a mother. No life has been created in a lab or a jar or anywhere from scratch its impossible. At least impossible for humans. I believe God is the only one who can create life from scratch. I do not believe life just randomly just started.
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Whoever said "God" didnt crate us from something elas`? its pretty much a fact that we didnt just "pop" to life on the earth, unless you belive adam and eve bs story lol
It took us 1000s of years to evole to what we are now.
Am sure in time when we evole more, there be nothing we can do, only limit is our knownage and new knownage is being learnt at a super fast rate and with knownage comes power and with power becomes godhood.
[Updated on: Sat, 15 July 2006 01:05] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: hope none of you are them [message #208156 is a reply to message #208147] |
Sat, 15 July 2006 01:21 |
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Scythar
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| GrayWolf wrote on Sat, 15 July 2006 03:21 |
I should have phrased it like this. Humans will never create life from scratch.
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What do you personally define as "from scratch"? Is it enough to mix DNA? Or should we start from molecules? Atoms? Quarks? Or the intense circumstances present at the time things were created, one way or the other? In my opinion, to start from scratch means we have to understand the world completely to figure out the "scartch" in the first place.
Your argument is strong considering we don't even know what IS a scratch yet, but time seems to be on the scientists side for now...maybe by the time we can make things from scratch, we already know whether there's a God or not.
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Whoever said "God" didnt crate us from something elas`? its pretty much a fact that we didnt just "pop" to life on the earth, unless you belive adam and eve bs story lol
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Eve was made from Adams rib, if that's the right bone I'm looking for.
There's a hole in the sky through which things can fly.
[Updated on: Sat, 15 July 2006 01:24] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: hope none of you are them [message #208175 is a reply to message #208028] |
Sat, 15 July 2006 05:07 |
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Crimson
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| warranto wrote on Fri, 14 July 2006 05:59 |
| Crimson wrote on Thu, 13 July 2006 23:26 |
Well, I bought a "Yo God!" meter. If God exists, all he has to do is move the little needle over to "Yes". While it stays on "No", I will continue to believe he doesn't exist. It arrives soon.
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I'm sorry Crimson, but do you realize how -well, to call it what it is- pathetic it is to base your belief on the absence of something doing what you demand it to do?
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I guess you fail to grasp my point. I don't believe in any god created by any religion. I see your belief in a god as you view a child believing in Santa Claus. To me, the story of a man up at the North Pole making toys with elves is just as illogical and implausible as the story of our Jesus. Personally I don't see how it was such a huge sacrifice if the story is as you say. If he knew he would come down and die for our sins and become a god or whatever, then how is that a sacrifice? If I could die right now and become an immortal god, I'd sign up too. The sacrifice of death loses all meaning when you don't actually lose your life.
That's my point. It's a joke. All of it. A very elaborate joke that has fooled billions.
I'm the bawss.
[Updated on: Sat, 15 July 2006 05:08] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: hope none of you are them [message #208182 is a reply to message #208175] |
Sat, 15 July 2006 07:47 |
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IronWarrior
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| Crimson wrote on Sat, 15 July 2006 07:07 |
| warranto wrote on Fri, 14 July 2006 05:59 |
| Crimson wrote on Thu, 13 July 2006 23:26 |
Well, I bought a "Yo God!" meter. If God exists, all he has to do is move the little needle over to "Yes". While it stays on "No", I will continue to believe he doesn't exist. It arrives soon.
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I'm sorry Crimson, but do you realize how -well, to call it what it is- pathetic it is to base your belief on the absence of something doing what you demand it to do?
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I guess you fail to grasp my point. I don't believe in any god created by any religion. I see your belief in a god as you view a child believing in Santa Claus. To me, the story of a man up at the North Pole making toys with elves is just as illogical and implausible as the story of our Jesus. Personally I don't see how it was such a huge sacrifice if the story is as you say. If he knew he would come down and die for our sins and become a god or whatever, then how is that a sacrifice? If I could die right now and become an immortal god, I'd sign up too. The sacrifice of death loses all meaning when you don't actually lose your life.
That's my point. It's a joke. All of it. A very elaborate joke that has fooled billions.
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Yep, very true.
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| Re: hope none of you are them [message #208202 is a reply to message #208184] |
Sat, 15 July 2006 09:27 |
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Scythar
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| j_ball430 wrote on Sat, 15 July 2006 10:50 |
I wish people were a little more informed on the story if they care to share their opinion. Jesus didn't get to become a god because he died... he IS God, was God, and always will be God.
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That still doesn't nullify her point. Since Jesus was God and continued to be so after being killed, where's the great "sacrificed himself for the humanity"-part? What did he sacrifice? I can understand the part about forgiving us our sins and whatnot, but am I supposed to feel bad for the poor dude because he lost his avatar on earth and "had to" return to heaven?
Sacrifice just isn't the right word, no matter how I try to look at it.
There's a hole in the sky through which things can fly.
[Updated on: Sat, 15 July 2006 09:27] Report message to a moderator |
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