Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » Scrap the income tax!
| Scrap the income tax! [message #150079] |
Sun, 17 April 2005 20:17   |
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Crimson
Messages: 7427
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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General (5 Stars)
ADMINISTRATOR |
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Do I need to form a corporation to have the business be legitimate? Or is there somewhere else to register it?
I'm the bawss.
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| Scrap the income tax! [message #150100] |
Sun, 17 April 2005 21:17 |
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IRON FART
Messages: 1989
Registered: September 2003
Location: LOS ANGELES
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| Hydra |
| Crimson |
Anyone who has an idea to make this number better... I'm glad to hear it.
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Under the FairTax plan, that number would be zero.
Why? Because you already paid them when you bought that new car.
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The plan could work, but it has some kinks to iron out. I'm not partial to either one right now.
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Quote from IRC
<[Digital]> get man_fucking_a_car.mpg
<[Digital]> ah fuck wrong window
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| Scrap the income tax! [message #150107] |
Sun, 17 April 2005 22:36 |
msgtpain
Messages: 663
Registered: March 2003
Location: Montana
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| Crimson |
Do I need to form a corporation to have the business be legitimate? Or is there somewhere else to register it?
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depends on your state laws, and how you form affects the types of deductions you can take. In Montana, you don't even have to file any paperwork for a sole proprietership, in washington, it cost like $75 for the "business license". Corporations have some advantages, like removal of liability against your personal interests, but you'd have to talk to someone there in Az to get a good picture of which way to go.
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| Scrap the income tax! [message #150374] |
Tue, 19 April 2005 07:23 |
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| SuperFlyingEngi |
To implement a sales tax, there would have to be a 26% tax on everything you buy, assuming it's a flat tax on everything. That means 26% on houses. A 100,000 dollar house would end up costing you 126,000. But not on yachts. America doesn't make yachts. We exported those jobs. So, rich people go to France with their million dollars to buy a yacht, on which the sales tax is zero.
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I'd rather pay 26% on sales tax than 60% of my income ( I really don't want to deal with 1040 next year). Besides, with a simpiler flat tax, alot of tax evasion and loopholes will be eliminated. That way everyone will pay their fair share.
In fact, a better idea is to increase the original federal tax, tariffs. Not specific trade tariffs (i.e. steel import tariffs), but a flat tariff on all imported goods. This may also curb outsourcing. If China-made products are going to have to same price as USA-made products, why would compaines bother outsourcing? Yes, companies don't have to pay the tariffs, the consumer does. But wouldn't the consumer buy a product made by someone treated decently than something made in a sweatshop if they were the same price? Think about it, if "Made in China" products had the same price as "Made in America" products, wouldn't you buy "Made in America?"
And what the heck are you yapping about yachts for? 
God is the "0wnage". Plain and Simple.
Visit http://www.theoriginalmrbob.com
"If there's one freak to be, it's a Jesus freak"
All your base are belong to us.
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| Scrap the income tax! [message #150467] |
Tue, 19 April 2005 16:59 |
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IRON FART
Messages: 1989
Registered: September 2003
Location: LOS ANGELES
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| MrBob |
| SuperFlyingEngi |
To implement a sales tax, there would have to be a 26% tax on everything you buy, assuming it's a flat tax on everything. That means 26% on houses. A 100,000 dollar house would end up costing you 126,000. But not on yachts. America doesn't make yachts. We exported those jobs. So, rich people go to France with their million dollars to buy a yacht, on which the sales tax is zero.
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I'd rather pay 26% on sales tax than 60% of my income ( I really don't want to deal with 1040 next year). Besides, with a simpiler flat tax, alot of tax evasion and loopholes will be eliminated. That way everyone will pay their fair share.
In fact, a better idea is to increase the original federal tax, tariffs. Not specific trade tariffs (i.e. steel import tariffs), but a flat tariff on all imported goods. This may also curb outsourcing. If China-made products are going to have to same price as USA-made products, why would compaines bother outsourcing? Yes, companies don't have to pay the tariffs, the consumer does. But wouldn't the consumer buy a product made by someone treated decently than something made in a sweatshop if they were the same price? Think about it, if "Made in China" products had the same price as "Made in America" products, wouldn't you buy "Made in America?"
And what the heck are you yapping about yachts for?
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I thought the max you could be currently taxed is 49%...
| Quote: |
Quote from IRC
<[Digital]> get man_fucking_a_car.mpg
<[Digital]> ah fuck wrong window
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| Scrap the income tax! [message #150537] |
Wed, 20 April 2005 07:23 |
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Hydra
Messages: 827
Registered: September 2003
Location: Atlanta, GA
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| SEAL |
Seems like a pretty dumb idea...
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That's because you didn't bother to read the whole thread.
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Under the current system, I don't make enough to have to file taxes (I'm a high school student). When I go to buy a bag of chips, I only pay $1.00. Under the new system, I would have to pay $1.26 for that same bag of chips
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Wrong.
All retail items currently bought and sold in the United States have an embedded tax included in their price, sometimes consisting of as much as 35% of the total price. This embedded tax would be eliminated as income taxes on businesses are completely eliminated and businesses are not forced to raise their price to compensate all the payroll taxes, corporate income taxes, and the myriad of other income taxes they have to pay to the government.
The overall prices of the products go down.
The price of that $1.00 item you bought would in some cases not change; in other cases, it might cost you even less when the embedded tax is removed.
Had you read my three previous posts in this thread or the website to which I linked everyone in the first post of this thread, you'd've known that.
Walter Keith Koester: September 22, 1962 - March 15, 2005
God be with you, Uncle Wally.
 (<---New(ish) Prayer Group Forums)
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| Scrap the income tax! [message #150582] |
Wed, 20 April 2005 14:04 |
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SuperFlyingEngi
Messages: 1756
Registered: November 2003
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General (1 Star) |
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How is it, again, that you can eliminate all income taxes, while replacing them with a sales tax, and have the total cost of items go down? The money has to come from somewhere. In this system, items would cost more, but people would have more money. But most of the rich people would spend their untaxed money in other countries where they can buy their yachts with only a minimum sales tax, something minimum wage workers rarely do. Which would, in turn, require the government to raise sales taxes even more on the non-rich populace, so the sales tax could end up being something like 35 or even 40%, with rich Americans putting no money into the American government. Creating an extraordinary gap between the "haves" and the "have nots" leading to a militant revolution that results in half the American population being killed in ruthless street fighting and ultimately leading to the overthrow of the American government and complete anarchy until the U.S., with no system of organization, gets conquered by Grenada. And we wouldn't want that to happen, now, would we?
And if it interests you all, Ronald Reagan put through the largest tax raise in American history. Crimson, you'd be paying less on your taxes if Reagan hadn't been put into office.
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)
"The danger to political dissent is acute where the Government attempts to act under so vague a concept as the power to protect "domestic security." Given the difficulty of defining the domestic security interest, the danger of abuse in acting to protect that interest becomes apparent. --U.S. Supreme Court decision (407 U.S. 297 (1972)
The Liberal Media At Work
An objective look at media partisanship
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| Scrap the income tax! [message #150602] |
Wed, 20 April 2005 15:36 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7427
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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General (5 Stars)
ADMINISTRATOR |
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That was the dumbest comment I've heard from SFE, and I've heard some whoppers.
I'm the bawss.
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| Scrap the income tax! [message #150609] |
Wed, 20 April 2005 16:16 |
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SuperFlyingEngi
Messages: 1756
Registered: November 2003
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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I got a bit carried away with the revolution bit. I find it hard to believe you didn't catch that.
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)
"The danger to political dissent is acute where the Government attempts to act under so vague a concept as the power to protect "domestic security." Given the difficulty of defining the domestic security interest, the danger of abuse in acting to protect that interest becomes apparent. --U.S. Supreme Court decision (407 U.S. 297 (1972)
The Liberal Media At Work
An objective look at media partisanship
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| Scrap the income tax! [message #150613] |
Wed, 20 April 2005 17:16 |
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Hydra
Messages: 827
Registered: September 2003
Location: Atlanta, GA
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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Wow....
How the hell did you go from talking about the retail sales tax to describing a communist revolution in America...?
I wonder, SuperFlyingLiberalTool, if you have actually read anything I have written in my previous 4 posts in this thread.
Is this concept really that far over your head?
Do you really have this much trouble comprehending what I write?
Do you think up your bullshit all on your own, or do you have help?
Read the thread again, retard, and I make it plainly clear to you how the price of retail products goes down when embedded income taxes are removed.
How many times do I have to say it before it finally penetrates the hard candy shell surrounding your brain???
Walter Keith Koester: September 22, 1962 - March 15, 2005
God be with you, Uncle Wally.
(<---New(ish) Prayer Group Forums)
(<---Archived Prayer Group Forums)
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| Scrap the income tax! [message #150625] |
Wed, 20 April 2005 18:18 |
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SuperFlyingEngi
Messages: 1756
Registered: November 2003
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| Hydra |
Wow....
How the hell did you go from talking about the retail sales tax to describing a communist revolution in America...?
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By digressing with my incredible intellectual prowess. Duh.
| Hydra |
Read the thread again, retard, and I make it plainly clear to you how the price of retail products goes down when embedded income taxes are removed.
How many times do I have to say it before it finally penetrates the hard candy shell surrounding your brain???
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All you've said is that an "embedded" tax would be removed because of the removal of income tax from companies. Would the prices of products really drop more than 23% before this new sales tax is applied? Somehow, I doubt that. And if adding a 23% sales tax to all products results in the overall cost of products going down, where does the government get its' money?
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)
"The danger to political dissent is acute where the Government attempts to act under so vague a concept as the power to protect "domestic security." Given the difficulty of defining the domestic security interest, the danger of abuse in acting to protect that interest becomes apparent. --U.S. Supreme Court decision (407 U.S. 297 (1972)
The Liberal Media At Work
An objective look at media partisanship
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| Scrap the income tax! [message #150627] |
Wed, 20 April 2005 18:32 |
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| SuperFlyingEngi |
Would the prices of products really drop more than 23% before this new sales tax is applied? Somehow, I doubt that. And if adding a 23% sales tax to all products results in the overall cost of products going down, where does the government get its' money?
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Good point.
I also have 2 more points that I'd like to say:
1. This is probably the first and only issue I'll ever agree with Tool.
2. The largest spenders are not always the ones with the biggest incomes. Take for instance a family with several kids. They probably only make maybe $30,000 - $40,000 a year and have to support their kids. This FairTax plan will hurt them substantially. You said that there would be special rebates on necessities for this kind of situation, but I don't see how that will change much if anything at all.
Libertarian Party | The King's Throne | The Soda Shop
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| Scrap the income tax! [message #150628] |
Wed, 20 April 2005 18:38 |
msgtpain
Messages: 663
Registered: March 2003
Location: Montana
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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My only rebuttal to the "embedded tax" is that I would have to see stats to believe you. Payroll income tax is paid by the employee, not the employer. If the employee did not have to pay it anymore, it would not affect one bit how much the employer had to spend to create the product/service.
As I said before, remove the bullshit workmans comp rates, remove the employer matching 7.5% contribution to social security, reduce the unemployment tax rates, etc.. All THESE affect the bottom line for the company, not personal income taxes.
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| Scrap the income tax! [message #150668] |
Wed, 20 April 2005 21:47 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7427
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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General (5 Stars)
ADMINISTRATOR |
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I'd say if Hillary Clinton had come up with the idea, SFE would be all for it. That's a FACT.
I'm the bawss.
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| Scrap the income tax! [message #150762] |
Thu, 21 April 2005 15:23 |
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IRON FART
Messages: 1989
Registered: September 2003
Location: LOS ANGELES
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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So would I if Hillary Clinton supported it.
But she won't because the plan has flaws.
| Quote: |
Quote from IRC
<[Digital]> get man_fucking_a_car.mpg
<[Digital]> ah fuck wrong window
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| Scrap the income tax! [message #150961] |
Fri, 22 April 2005 19:14 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7427
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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General (5 Stars)
ADMINISTRATOR |
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And yet other companies abroad outsource more jobs HERE than we do to other countries at a ratio of 7 to 1.
I'm the bawss.
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| Scrap the income tax! [message #151196] |
Sun, 24 April 2005 13:20 |
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| Deathgod |
I saw someone comment on outsourcing in this thread and I have to point out that there is a reason for outsourcing: it saves money.
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I'm not trying to sound mean or anything, but...duh. My point was that while companies will still save money, US and foreign products would have the same price on the consumer level.
God is the "0wnage". Plain and Simple.
Visit http://www.theoriginalmrbob.com
"If there's one freak to be, it's a Jesus freak"
All your base are belong to us.
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| Scrap the income tax! [message #151219] |
Sun, 24 April 2005 14:49 |
msgtpain
Messages: 663
Registered: March 2003
Location: Montana
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| Deathgod |
I didn't say it was bad, or that it was the sole reason our economy sucks. I just pointed it out.
I remember an old example from my economics class that has always served well. You take two companies making brooms. One of them is in the US, one is in Mexico. These two factories' stock is bought by the same company to sell here in the US. The brooms are functionally and stylistically identical, yet the US broom costs 500% more to make in terms of wages and resources. Now this is a simplistic example, to be sure, but the basic underlying idea is the same: why the fuck do people in the US waste money making brooms here when they can ship them from out of the country and still pay 1/4 of what the US broom costs?
As I said, it's simplistic but it can be applied to most industries that we are involved in outsourcing in.
Amusing side note relating to this topic, courtesy of the Onion: http://www.theonion.com/nib/index.php?issue=4116&nib=1
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It is that simple, unless you're a democrat. They have a problem with the workers in the US broom factory no longer having a job because we let Mexico make the brooms instead.. They would rather we just shut up and pay the 500% markup on the brooms so those workers don't have to take the time to look for another job.
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