Home » General Discussions » General Discussion » Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units.
| Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units. [message #88212] |
Mon, 17 May 2004 19:00   |
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PointlessAmbler
Messages: 318
Registered: February 2004
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Okay, here's my two cents.
Havoc and Sakura are snipers, right? Well, let's see. Kane, in one of the videos in the original C&C (in particular, the mission briefing for the mission where you have to kill the scientist) refers to the Commando as a sniper. Havoc and Sakura are thus both Commandos and snipers (as Havoc was clearly intended to be a 'Commando'-style unit and Sakura is just Nod's equivalent to Havoc). Now, let's look at the C&C Commando. He pwns infantry from long range, but has a hard time killing even a Nod Buggy, even though he outranges it. He can't shoot at aircraft at all. To make it similar to C&C, the Ramjet should indeed be able to take out people in one (preferrably two or more, to require snipers to actually aim for the head) shot, but it should do virtually zero damage to even the lightest of vehicles. This includes aircraft.
Red Alert: A Path Beyond Manual Writer
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| Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units. [message #88217] |
Mon, 17 May 2004 19:22 |
cokemaster
Messages: 144
Registered: April 2003
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I agree with you PointlessAmbler, but I know Deathgod won't.
He seems to want to keep the game unbalanced.
Remember, Friends don't let friends play Reborn!
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| Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units. [message #88239] |
Mon, 17 May 2004 20:28 |
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Deathgod
Messages: 504
Registered: February 2003
Location: The House of B
Karma: 0
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| cokemaster |
I agree with you PointlessAmbler, but I know Deathgod won't.
He seems to want to keep the game unbalanced.
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It must be cool to make multiple accounts to spam threads because you have nothing useful to say.
If by unbalanced, you mean the way it is, then yes. I think it's fine. Any problems people have killing snipers are related to poor strategy, as I have said in many other threads. We tried a little experiment with camping Sakuras in an interclan game the other night, and while the two sakuras were able to down an orca, one of the saks died, and the other was killed by one of our team's snipers. Amazingly, our sniper survived because the sakuras were too busy looking at my orca. So, we made them spend 2K to our 900 credits. The use of a support unit with my orca is good strategy. Taking on multiple snipers with one air unit is bad strategy.
WOL: priestofb
FUD Online for Renegade character details
The preceding post was sponsored by FUD.
We are the way, you are in the way.â„¢
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| Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units. [message #88250] |
Mon, 17 May 2004 21:27 |
cokemaster
Messages: 144
Registered: April 2003
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| Quote: |
Deathgod:
It must be cool to make multiple accounts to spam threads because you have nothing useful to say.
If by unbalanced, you mean the way it is, then yes. I think it's fine. Any problems people have killing snipers are related to poor strategy, as I have said in many other threads. We tried a little experiment with camping Sakuras in an interclan game the other night, and while the two sakuras were able to down an orca, one of the saks died, and the other was killed by one of our team's snipers. Amazingly, our sniper survived because the sakuras were too busy looking at my orca. So, we made them spend 2K to our 900 credits. The use of a support unit with my orca is good strategy. Taking on multiple snipers with one air unit is bad strategy.
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The mods can check - this is my only account and I don't have multiple accounts. Perhaps you should actually find facts out before pointing your finger and saying that in future. If your complaining of spamming perhaps you should look at yourself - all you have effectively done is stuck to your punchline "Snipers should be left alone".
If you expect everyone to take into consideration your point of view, attacking them and accusing them of things that they haven't done (Example: Myself using multiple accounts) is not how to do it.
You don't even take into consideration that other people have an opinion.
Other people have posted saying that the current balance is a problem.
It seems (from my point of view) that its just a small but vocal group of individuals who are so violently opposed to the changes.
If you don't like it, you can still use your old maps. But when these changes comes out - I'll be using them. I, for one have had enough of snipers doing excessive damage to aircraft.
Enough for me at this time.
Remember, Friends don't let friends play Reborn!
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| Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units. [message #88254] |
Mon, 17 May 2004 21:41 |
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Deathgod
Messages: 504
Registered: February 2003
Location: The House of B
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| cokemaster |
The mods can check - this is my only account and I don't have multiple accounts. Perhaps you should actually find facts out before pointing your finger and saying that in future. If your complaining of spamming perhaps you should look at yourself - all you have effectively done is stuck to your punchline "Snipers should be left alone".
If you expect everyone to take into consideration your point of view, attacking them and accusing them of things that they haven't done (Example: Myself using multiple accounts) is not how to do it.
You don't even take into consideration that other people have an opinion.
Other people have posted saying that the current balance is a problem.
It seems (from my point of view) that its just a small but vocal group of individuals who are so violently opposed to the changes.
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You may have just this account, but you sound strikingly similar to other people here who have just popped into this argument recently with nothing to say. I'd apologize, but I don't really care about you or your opinion.
Sticking to my "punchline" is hardly spamming. There are 2 or 3 threads in which this argument has been going on, and I've made a few posts in each stating what I feel should be done (in this case, nothing). I fail to see where I spammed. It's not like I just jumped into this thread saying ACK IS FUKEN STUPID like you tried to do with me. Perhaps you should read the entire threads before posting so you have some frame of reference.
As I said, your opinion doesn't matter, because you're not the one changing the game. The only people I really consider to be partaking in this discussion are ACK, a few of my clanmates, other BHS members, and a few others with actual worthwhile input. Your post, which consisted of nothing worthwhile, doesn't exactly register high on the importance meter.
It seems from my point of view that exactly the opposite is happening; a few people want it changed and there's a vocal opposition which is largely ignored since we're in FUD or we're not ACK's pals (or both, perhaps). I am willing to bet if a poll was taken of all the current Ren users that probably less than a third would actually want this changed. I could of course be wrong, but until I see some proof that a real majority thinks this is an issue I will continue to point out what I think are serious errors in judgment on the part of people who want to 'rebalance' the game. I have already stated that as of right now, our server won't be running these maps. If people want to play them, they can go elsewhere, it's not like we'll be shedding any tears over it. We have a dedicated group of regular players who are perfectly happy with the way things are on our server and continue to enjoy it because they meet our standards; frankly, most of the people who are complaining about sniper damage aren't even allowed to play on our server in the first place. We don't feel it's excessive, we feel that if you can't take snipers 1 on 1 you suck, and if you fly into a nest of them you should be prepared to die for your stupidity. There are plenty of alternative means to remove snipers in the game already.
WOL: priestofb
FUD Online for Renegade character details
The preceding post was sponsored by FUD.
We are the way, you are in the way.â„¢
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| Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units. [message #88260] |
Mon, 17 May 2004 22:06 |
cokemaster
Messages: 144
Registered: April 2003
Karma: 0
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Well just to clear things up - I don't think highly of you, FUD, or your server.
It still stands - if you don't like it, don't play it - just let the rest of us who want to alone.
Thanks.
Remember, Friends don't let friends play Reborn!
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| Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units. [message #88283] |
Tue, 18 May 2004 00:00 |
cokemaster
Messages: 144
Registered: April 2003
Karma: 0
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And yet you expect us to listen to you. :rolleyes:
Oh well - just activated this to solve that problem with this ingrate. I don't want to listen to his biased views which are obviously self-serving.
This game needs bugs fixed, balance issues worked out. I'd just wait till a beta or something along those lines comes out and then decide whether its better - but at the moment anything is better than the game twisted towards sniper supremacy.[/url]
Remember, Friends don't let friends play Reborn!
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| Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units. [message #88440] |
Tue, 18 May 2004 14:25 |
Weirdo
Messages: 369
Registered: March 2003
Karma: 0
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Basicly I don't see any reason why the Personal Ion Cannon or the rail gun should be less effective to airplanes then a simple sniper rifle. I don't know the precise amount of bullets you need with an Ion cannon or rail gun, but these guns have a limited range, and have to reload after every bullet.
My vote goes for a balance change.
Size doesn't matter.
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| Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units. [message #88454] |
Tue, 18 May 2004 15:43 |
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PointlessAmbler
Messages: 318
Registered: February 2004
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Having a PIC Sydney or Raveshaw shoot down aircraft is fine, they're intended to be anti-vehicle (and anti-building, and anti-infantry if you're any good). All I think is that any unit with a Sniper/Ramjet Rifle shouldn't do ridiculous damage to helicopters like they do now. Snipers should do virtually no damage, and the Ramjet should do maybe a little damage(to please the people that quote the manual and proclaim that the Ramjet fires jet-powered bullets), but remember that Snipers are anti-infantry. Does getting hit with 5 large-caliber sniper rounds destroy a helicopter in real life? No. It would be barely damaged. Did snipers (Commandos) do lots of damage to light vehicles in C&C? No. Therefore, it should be changed, as it defies all logic AND continuity, as well as being unbalanced.
| Javaxcx |
If you are going to do that to snipers to "be similar to C&C", eliminate the engineer's pistol, and nerf the technician's to do virtually no damage. That's also similar to C&C.
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There's a difference between changing things that are broken and changing things that work the way they are. Just because I want to change one issue doesn't mean I want to change the entire gameplay dynamic structure.
Red Alert: A Path Beyond Manual Writer
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| Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units. [message #88474] |
Tue, 18 May 2004 17:41 |
mahkra
Messages: 219
Registered: April 2004
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| PointlessAmbler |
There's a difference between changing things that are broken and changing things that work the way they are.
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This is exactly the point that many of us have been trying to make in these threads. If things were broken, I'd say go ahead and fix them, but snipers vs. aircraft work just fine the way it is right now, so there's no reason to change it.
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| Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units. [message #88477] |
Tue, 18 May 2004 18:24 |
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Javaxcx
Messages: 1943
Registered: February 2003
Location: Canada, eh?
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| PointlessAmbler |
Does getting hit with 5 large-caliber sniper rounds destroy a helicopter in real life? No. It would be barely damaged.
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I'm going to say to you what Aircraftkiller tried to argue with in the thread that he locked, (3 times, now). C&C is not realistic, so it is irrelevant if a sniper rifle in real life would be able to damage an aircraft. In all likelyhood (yes, I'm going off on a tangent), if an extremely high powered sniper rifle were to be fired into the gas tank of a helicopter, it wouldn't be 5 shots to take out, it'd be one.
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Did snipers (Commandos) do lots of damage to light vehicles in C&C? No.
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Did engineers have pistols in C&C? No. You're picking and choosing which concessions to change to replicate the C&C RTS. You're still bastardizing the game if you do this, NOT fixing it.
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There's a difference between changing things that are broken and changing things that work the way they are. Just because I want to change one issue doesn't mean I want to change the entire gameplay dynamic structure.
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Snipers (Ramjets) aren't broken in Renegade, they do exactly what they were intended to do. Damage light armour and destory infantry. And no, Aircraftkiller, YOU saying that it's a bug in the armor.ini file doesn't make it so. I say it's not a bug, and my opinion has just as much value as yours does.
Sniper Extraordinaire
Read the FUD Rules before you come in and make an ass of yourself.
All your base are belong to us.
You have no chance to survive make your time.
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| Snipers with Ramjet vs Air units. [message #88489] |
Tue, 18 May 2004 19:41 |
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Javaxcx
Messages: 1943
Registered: February 2003
Location: Canada, eh?
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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Sure it is:
Aircraft have light armour. Snipers damage light armour. Therefore snipers damage aircraft.
Pop it into your mod tools, and it says it right there. I hate to break it to you, but that is technical knowledge. You're going on that it's a bug in the system, and I'm telling you it's not. A bug in the system is being able to B2B in islands, not sniper damage. It's fairly easy to spew out some technical jargon and attempt to pass it off as a reason to change something that doesn't need to be changed.
Since realism is irrelevant, and the game is based of C&C, refusing to compliment aspects of C&C in this so-called "fixed" version seems a bit stupid, don't you think? After all, you DID say:
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I don't get why people play a C&C game and want to turn it into something that isn't C&C gameplay
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So stop picking and your concessions. I don't know how many more times I need to say this to you for it to sink in. If you're going to fix this game, fix everything, and in that case, and ONLY that case will it be justified for you to change snipers.
Sniper Extraordinaire
Read the FUD Rules before you come in and make an ass of yourself.
All your base are belong to us.
You have no chance to survive make your time.
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