Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » Titan's maps vs ACK's maps (split off)
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| Titan's maps vs ACK's maps (split off) [message #66947] |
Mon, 16 February 2004 18:02   |
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SuperFlyingEngi
Messages: 1756
Registered: November 2003
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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While kind of a silly idea, his contest would settle arguments, although those look like near impossible deadlines.
But why would MrBob enter himself in a mapping contest? He's not currently involved in a flame war with your or Titan about mapping.
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)
"The danger to political dissent is acute where the Government attempts to act under so vague a concept as the power to protect "domestic security." Given the difficulty of defining the domestic security interest, the danger of abuse in acting to protect that interest becomes apparent. --U.S. Supreme Court decision (407 U.S. 297 (1972)
The Liberal Media At Work
An objective look at media partisanship
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| Titan's maps vs ACK's maps (split off) [message #66952] |
Mon, 16 February 2004 18:14 |
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SuperFlyingEngi
Messages: 1756
Registered: November 2003
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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Here's a crazy idea:
I'm sure this is WAAAAAAY too far-fetched to work, but I feel obligated to post it anyway:
ACK and Titan could just stop dissing each other and get over it.
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)
"The danger to political dissent is acute where the Government attempts to act under so vague a concept as the power to protect "domestic security." Given the difficulty of defining the domestic security interest, the danger of abuse in acting to protect that interest becomes apparent. --U.S. Supreme Court decision (407 U.S. 297 (1972)
The Liberal Media At Work
An objective look at media partisanship
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| Titan's maps vs ACK's maps (split off) [message #66960] |
Mon, 16 February 2004 19:23 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7427
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars)
ADMINISTRATOR |
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Look, here's my concern. It's obvious to me that Titan is not yet a stellar map maker, but he's showing phenomenal improvement and every map I see from him gets better and better. He has the potential to be a great map maker. But if all these anti-ACK folks praise Titan just to spite ACK, he's not going to be motivated to improve. Having a competition to show whose maps are more played and more playable will show these anti-ACK people that all their drivel isn't swaying the community as a whole.
Above and beyond anything, all I ever want is the best maps made for the global effort to keep people playing the game. To keep it fun, to keep you coming back for more.
For the record, I do not in fact agree with the opinion that creative license shouldn't be exercised. Teleporters have their purpose, low gravity has its purpose. But as with anything not commonly-used, it will take trials and definitely errors before the most effective, engaging, and interesting usage is ascertained.
I'm the bawss.
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| Titan's maps vs ACK's maps (split off) [message #66973] |
Mon, 16 February 2004 21:04 |
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SuperFlyingEngi
Messages: 1756
Registered: November 2003
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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Do you really have to try and start a flame war?
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)
"The danger to political dissent is acute where the Government attempts to act under so vague a concept as the power to protect "domestic security." Given the difficulty of defining the domestic security interest, the danger of abuse in acting to protect that interest becomes apparent. --U.S. Supreme Court decision (407 U.S. 297 (1972)
The Liberal Media At Work
An objective look at media partisanship
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| Titan's maps vs ACK's maps (split off) [message #66978] |
Mon, 16 February 2004 22:29 |
Battousai
Messages: 50
Registered: October 2003
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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Both mapmakers are good. Just play the maps you want to play... this is just like those old sega vs nintendo arguments... who cares download them both, they're free and don't take up significant space anyway.
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| Titan's maps vs ACK's maps (split off) [message #66980] |
Mon, 16 February 2004 23:32 |
msgtpain
Messages: 663
Registered: March 2003
Location: Montana
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| Crimson |
But if all these anti-ACK folks praise Titan just to spite ACK, he's not going to be motivated to improve. Having a competition to show whose maps are more played and more playable will show these anti-ACK people that all their drivel isn't swaying the community as a whole.
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I'm not arguing with you Crimmy, just clarifying..
1. I do not praise Titan, I simply feel compelled to stand up for him when he is being wrongfully pounded in to the dirt out of pure hatred, and nothing more. I would even be willing to bet that Aircraftkiller did not even download, let alone "try" the map before proclaiming "That's nice... It still sucks, though."
2. Titan definitely is NOT going to be motivated to improve if we all stand idly by and allow the above mentioned hatred to go completely unchallenged. It is uncalled for, no-productive, and not even factual.
3. I don't believe you need to have a competition to determine who's maps are more played.. just look at WOL statistics or something. A competition is going to do nothing except force dozens more people to take sides, and the flame wars will simply get hotter.
4. I'm honestly not trying to sway the community with my drivel; at least not in the context of "ack’s maps suck, titan rules!" I'm just voicing my (hopefully still respected) opinion that I think aircraftkiller's blatant hatred and completely biased opinions against Titan's maps should hold absolutely no weight at all. And, that quiet forum dwellers can feel comfortable with coming out of the closet and telling him to shut the fuck up right along side of me, rather than sit quietly in the background because they don't want to be ostracized for expressing their opinion.
The bottom line is, this is not a matter of expressing opinions, exercising free speech, "the irony of telling someone to STFU in a post" (come on ack, I know you want to say that, don't you..) The point is that this is "supposed" to be the OFFICIAL forums for Command & Conquer Renegade, and it is SUPPOSED to be centered around keeping the community alive. Wouldn't it be more appropriate to request that Ack acquire a blow up doll that he can smash his fist in to every time he thinks about Titan, rather than allowing him to represent this community in an official capacity with such glaring hatred and biased against members that are simply trying to help keep the game alive also?
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| Titan's maps vs ACK's maps (split off) [message #66994] |
Tue, 17 February 2004 07:25 |
KIRBY098
Messages: 1546
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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YAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWN!
Man does this get old after about 2 minutes of reading.
I fail to understand how after years of the same rhetoric, and "opinions", why do you people still care what his opinions are? It's really as simple as clicking the "ignore" button.
Quite frankly, if you like Titan's maps, tell him so, and encourage them. Foster some new growth in a mapping, and modding community that is at a standstill.
I totally refute the notion that Ack has the market cornered on Renegade because of intellectual superiority. He's got it cornered because he has convinced you that you shouldn't even try. Don't buy into ANYONE ever telling you can't do something.
People only have the power YOU give them.
IE: If you have the will power to aspire to map greatness, and ignore inflammatory comments from a socially underdeveloped youth, you will go far.
Deleted
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| Titan's maps vs ACK's maps (split off) [message #66997] |
Tue, 17 February 2004 07:44 |
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Titan1x77
Messages: 1086
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| Crimson |
But if all these anti-ACK folks praise Titan just to spite ACK, he's not going to be motivated to improve.
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How the hell do you know what motivates me?
See the Readme for High Noon 2 ....as it states "thanks to Aircraftkiller for the inspiration"
not thats the only thing that motivates me...theres many factors on which I like to improve my maps...for one, Im still learning the ren-x tools and finding new ways to do things at a faster rate.
and I think the using of the word "praise" is a little overboard...because people say nice job keep it up??
and ACK always claims I want people to kiss my ass??
Seems like he interputs it like that becuase someone else's maps are enjoyed by players in this community.
If everyone including ack or if noone in the entire community enjoyed my maps ..It wouldn't make a difference, I'm still going to try and create the map to the best of my abilites.
all in all...my maps that have been created as of the past 3 months have great gameplay and look nice....This is my opinion by playing them in a couple of servers and seeing that gameplay matches those of WW maps and actually High noon 2 surpasses that gameplay by involving every aspect of this game.
KOTH was a new type of gameplay...That i wanted to see how it fairs with the community.
It's not going to be liked by the people who mainly use tanks...it's a one shot kill type map...where people who think they are good with a ramjet can go out and prove how good they are with there havoc's and sakura's.
I would like to thank all of those who have put in there input on how to improve my maps to be more enjoyable...this spans from server owners to the players themselves...Thank you!
"But if the gameplay sucks, the looks don't matter at all." - Sir Phoenixx
[Updated on: Tue, 17 February 2004 08:01] Report message to a moderator |
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| Titan's maps vs ACK's maps (split off) [message #67003] |
Tue, 17 February 2004 08:15 |
KIRBY098
Messages: 1546
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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But don't you see, that it isn't merely an " ACK is wrong " thing.
The greatest tragedy of all of his hatred, has been the death of a modding community. This game will never reach the diversity of maps good or bad that it could have, because people were too afraid to try. All those ideas are crushed, and those people have moved on to other mod communities that were more supportive.
Renegade's mod community is an anomoly. It is the least supportive, hypocritical, obsessive-compulsive I have ever seen in the games I have ever played. All because one person excelled, and won the approval of a programmer at a now defunct company. With that stamp of worthless approval, he buffaloed every independent map maker into giving up on thier potential dreams, which could have been very cool to play. I personally don't care if there is one spot on a map where I fall into blue hell. I don't care if there are VIS glitches. I don't care if the layout is less then perfect. I don't care how balanced it is. What I do care about is not having to play the same old ACK style, WW approved, BORING maps over and over. I expect perfection when WW released a map. NOT when an apprentice map maker releases version one of a work in progress.
How many revisions have we seen to the, as yet unfinished, RENALERT? This is where I lose all respect, and where you lose all credibility. Being critical is one thing. Being hypo-critical is inexcusable. When they screw up, it's "REBORN SUCKS" time. When you screw up, it's "JUST DELETE, AND DOWNLOAD VERSION 1.2".
Lack of variety, and perfectionism is what killed this game in the end. That, and Aircraftkiller. Now that it's dead, maybee he can change his name to Ren-killer.
High ideals are no excuse for your personal crusade to destroy the mod community, and appoint yourself as the next WW inductee. I can just imagine what you thought when WW went south. No one to impress, and no future at WW.
All the RENGAURDS, DEAD SIX,N00BSTORIES, RENEVO'S, RENALERTS and RENFORUMS are great. But with no variety of maps other than yours to play, what is the point? Everyone could have contributed to this game. Not just the self appointed elitists.
Instead we have a stagnant, non-evolving, abondoned,unfinished and uncommited remnant.
Congratulations. You are the self proclaimed king of a dead realm.
Deleted
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| Titan's maps vs ACK's maps (split off) [message #67006] |
Tue, 17 February 2004 08:56 |
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Aircraftkiller
Messages: 8213
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars) |
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I like this, for some reason. It reminds me of that Tool song, Schism.
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I know the pieces fit
'Cause I watched them tumble down
No fault, none to blame
It doesn't mean I don't desire to
Point the finger, blame the other
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It's a relatively simple thing to blame me, or anyone else, for the failures of others... When you would help out in the same kind of attacks you're writing about.
Now what is wrong with this picture?
Did you come to your senses and realize that freely giving your opinion, in spite of what others think, is a part of what this forum is made for? Or did you think that telling people what you think is somehow going to stop people from working on this game?
Furthermore, while you blame me for all of this, why didn't you or anyone else do anything to help the game? Why didn't you take your own time to learn and work on it? Or were you too busy doing something else?
As for Renegade Alert... What the hell are you even talking about? It was never, at any point, version 1.2. It hasn't even gotten out of the beta testing stages for the public. We've been testing it for about nine months, with the public... It's been plastered everywhere you can download it, there's even a forum dedicated to the support of it.
Had you paid attention here, you'd notice that our major complaint with Reborn is this:
1. We, as a team, had supported Reborn for a period of time in which they shrugged off our offers to help. They shit all over us and went on their merry way, deleting bug reports we had submitted from owning the *private* beta test files.
2. They didn't fix any of the problems we had identified. Not once. Instead, they threw minor band-aids over them and made more problems.
3. It took them longer to get a public beta test out than it did for us to get ours out with three additional patches to the 0.992 version.
As for the rest of what you wrote, it can be summed up by replying to this:
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I expect perfection when WW released a map. NOT when an apprentice map maker releases version one of a work in progress.
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Actually, this is where I'll come out and attack you for the first time in a very long while. People with your mentality is what is wrong with this community. Not "expression of opinions" or "flaming" people, you realize EVERY COMMUNITY has that? What the fuck dude, is Renegade the only game you've ever played? Go to CS forums, you think everyone is happy there? What about Unreal, or Quake? Yeah, they're all bending over backwards to help everyone... Give me a fucking break.
It's your mentality of "since this is free, I expect it to be perfect, and I don't think I should have to do anything. So if it fails, I'm going to whine about it on the forums."
Here's what I think... If you don't like it, why the hell didn't you do anything to help? All you've done is write some replies on a forum. No, Renegade isn't dead. But I'm happy it's making people like you want to leave.
Only the people willing to do anything will remain... And I doubt you're going to pick up 3D Studio and spend a few months learning how to create things for this game, just to spite me... Nah, that'd mean you'd have to do something instead of write words on a forum.
:rolleyes:
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ACK, do you honestly think that continous flaming will change our opinions about Titan? It certainly changes opinions about you though...
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So? You think that really matters to me? This is the Internet, and unless I speak with you often or consider you a friend, I couldn't give a rat's ass about what you think of me... "omg you're a big bad man online, you write text to people"
Like I'm not going to get to sleep tonight because these incredibly hurtful statements are weighing down on my conscience...
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all in all...my maps that have been created as of the past 3 months have great gameplay and look nice....This is my opinion by playing them in a couple of servers and seeing that gameplay matches those of WW maps and actually High noon 2 surpasses that gameplay by involving every aspect of this game.
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In what way? If you really think that Renegade's gameplay, mostly camping and getting a bunch of points, is hard to surpass or something... hoo boy, where to start here...
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I totally refute the notion that Ack has the market cornered on Renegade because of intellectual superiority. He's got it cornered because he has convinced you that you shouldn't even try. Don't buy into ANYONE ever telling you can't do something.
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And you were a big part of this "convincing" garbage. I remember quite a few of your posts that were remarkably similar to mine.
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4. I'm honestly not trying to sway the community with my drivel; at least not in the context of "ack?s maps suck, titan rules!" I'm just voicing my (hopefully still respected) opinion that I think aircraftkiller's blatant hatred and completely biased opinions against Titan's maps should hold absolutely no weight at all. And, that quiet forum dwellers can feel comfortable with coming out of the closet and telling him to shut the fuck up right along side of me, rather than sit quietly in the background because they don't want to be ostracized for expressing their opinion.
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This makes me ask you "Why do your opinions hold any sway, when they're all complaints or self-proclaimed drivel?" Honestly, feel free to keep doing this. Say "shut the fuck up" and such all you want, I've got no problem with that. I still won't, though... So it's pointless.
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The bottom line is, this is not a matter of expressing opinions, exercising free speech, "the irony of telling someone to STFU in a post" (come on ack, I know you want to say that, don't you..) The point is that this is "supposed" to be the OFFICIAL forums for Command & Conquer Renegade, and it is SUPPOSED to be centered around keeping the community alive. Wouldn't it be more appropriate to request that Ack acquire a blow up doll that he can smash his fist in to every time he thinks about Titan, rather than allowing him to represent this community in an official capacity with such glaring hatred and biased against members that are simply trying to help keep the game alive also?
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I don't know, would it be? Crimson's said, before, that she won't censor people because you don't like what's written. It's only censored when it's a major personal attack.
I honestly can't see why you can take up any side on this. You have nothing to do with it and you're not causing me to change my mind.
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