Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » Why do you think?
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| Why do you think? [message #34855] |
Tue, 29 July 2003 16:34   |
setstyle
Messages: 101
Registered: July 2003
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da_shiz: Go ahead...find or create a recipe for creating a tree without using the conventional tactic of planting a tree
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Well, you could plant a tree while hanging upside down. What's yours?
your = possessive adjective
you're = you + are
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| Why do you think? [message #34863] |
Tue, 29 July 2003 17:01 |
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| TheDragon |
| MrBob |
| Aprime |
Riggghhhhttt.
You should read tha bible d00d.
When the hippie called jesus came down here, he told many crap to do peace, unfortunatly, nobody understood cause they were all smoking a big fat pound of grass.
:rolleyes:
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I'm going to explain this to you the simplest possible way:
You.....are......an idiot.
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actually, i agree with aprime. if there is a god, i don't think he would want his humans to kill each other off.
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You must agree with this too:
| Aprime |
I know.
Jesus = retarded.
He throws acid at people and think he saved them, his followers were just some little tard kids,they wrote a fake story on him.
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If you haven't noticed, Aprime is mocking Jesus.
Just so you know.
God is the "0wnage". Plain and Simple.
Visit http://www.theoriginalmrbob.com
"If there's one freak to be, it's a Jesus freak"
All your base are belong to us.
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| Why do you think? [message #34864] |
Tue, 29 July 2003 17:05 |
setstyle
Messages: 101
Registered: July 2003
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It's sad that he had to bring in everyone suffering from retardation to try and prove a childish point.
your = possessive adjective
you're = you + are
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| Why do you think? [message #36670] |
Tue, 05 August 2003 19:51 |
setstyle
Messages: 101
Registered: July 2003
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Laughter is a human emotion caused, like any other, by chemicals in the brain. There's actually quite a few studies going on. As for why some are funnier, it's just like some people being faster than others - some may have a talent, while others may have to work harder at it.
your = possessive adjective
you're = you + are
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| If there is no God [message #61349] |
Sat, 10 January 2004 11:32 |
Brutus
Messages: 53
Registered: April 2003
Location: Norway
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If there is no God, what started the universe?
Even if the biblical God does not exist, there must be an "God" in the definition of that which started this whole thing up, right? A kind of higher force...or what?
On a slightly other note: Weird as it might sound, I actually hope to see a ghost sometime, just to have proof that there is more to the world than the eye sees...Have anyone else had that thought?
In response to Setstyle:
Could it be that human emotions have their roots in the soul?
Out of that question comes another very hard philosphical question:
Do animals have soul? They do have emotions, at least...
And what about insects (most of which have very simple nervous systems)?
(I dont know, but I somehow doubt it. I have never seen (registered) an insect display emotions...)
Brutus - Braindead Idiot in Charge of Sniffing
Home of the Braindead
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| Why do you think? [message #61358] |
Sat, 10 January 2004 12:08 |
SkitBra
Messages: 27
Registered: September 2003
Location: Sweden
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Brutus - Braindead Idiot in Charge of Sniffing
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you sniffed to much of something alright.
lets say like this, if there is a god then gimme the sign saying i am god in 2km large letters across the sky.
and 1 billion dollars on my bankaccount pls, then ill believe in that fake story.
/SkitBra
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| Why do you think? [message #61372] |
Sat, 10 January 2004 14:20 |
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Javaxcx
Messages: 1943
Registered: February 2003
Location: Canada, eh?
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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Not a single person can make a logical arguement and conclude on the existance or non-existance of God (like the direction of this arguement).
Look at it this way: (and I base this off Christianity, but the same principles apply universally)
So-called atheists deny the existence of God. That is the bottom line. If there was any doubt to that statement, at the very most, they would still be agnostic atheists (ones who believe that it is improbable that there is a God). Secondly, since Atheists deny God's existence, the ONLY recourse is to believe exclusively upon science and logic. This is their fatal flaw:
Since the universe has not been measured in every way, to the smallest piece of matter, etc... Atheists cannot logically say that "God does not exist". If a so-called Atheist makes that statement, they are a hypocrite in that they base a logic off an unproven theory. Unproven theories may have a logical deduction to them, however they cannot EVER be called logical unless proven (which hasn't/can't be done because of the size of universe).
THEREFORE: Since a hypocritical logic cannot exist, you can't call yourself an atheist (without looking like a total moron).
On the flipside however, it doesn't look much brighter for theists. The typical Christian theist believes totally in God. Regardless of religion, to be a theist requires faith. Faith demands the individual to accept unproven facts based on the testimony of others. If one has complete faith in God (in reference to Christianity), one must therefore accept the contents of the Bible as truth. Since the contents of the Bible are not completely proven factual, the Bible must be taken in faith. If faith is the acceptance of unproven facts, and it is not logical to unequivocally believe what cannot be proven true, unequivocally believing in God is illogical. Theism is therefore a foolish concept as it does not follow a logical principle. Not to offend, but it IS foolish to accept unproven facts as truth -- look up fool in the dictionary. At the VERY least, you have to be agnostic-theists, (ones who pretain to the idea that God PROBABLY exists).
So why you people try and make a logical debate pretaining to God? Beats me, because neither of you are right, nor can be right. 
Sniper Extraordinaire
Read the FUD Rules before you come in and make an ass of yourself.
All your base are belong to us.
You have no chance to survive make your time.
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| Finally an intelligent post! [message #61388] |
Sat, 10 January 2004 16:04 |
Brutus
Messages: 53
Registered: April 2003
Location: Norway
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Well said, Javaxcx. I mostly agree with you, except about one thing (maybe I misunderstood you, but here we go anyway):
You dont necessarily have to believe that all which is written in the bible is "Holy Truth" to be a Christian (At least I dont feel so). I regard myself as a christian, and do not believe that everything written in the bible is true/correct, but neither do I think it is a work of (complete) fiction.
I like to view myself as quite open-minded (Who doesnt?), and understand that the Bible is a work that consists of many different texts/scriptures written by many different people over a timespan of several thousand years (Much of the material in the Old Testament was handed down orally through many generations before being written down. It would be foolish to believe that it would not change at all during this time).
It is wodely known that the Bible has its fair share of contradictions. Frankly, this should not be very surprising, as its different parts was written by many different authors.
The christian Bible as we know it today was compiled by church leaders several hundred years AD, and many would-be Biblical texts were scrapped, while others were admitted. It would be wise to have this in mind, and the fact that the Bible (or its two main parts) was not written in one go, or added to "chapter by chapter".
What about miracles? Honestly, I dont know. I would would like for it to be true, but I simply dont know how well the Bible can be trusted. Some parts of it can certainly be trusted better than others. The purely historical accounts and ancestry-listings is probably quite accurate. As for walking on water and making water into wine...Well, one simply have to make up ones own mind, based on the information available. For us, who have no first-hand experiences or second-hand accounts about the events described, it may be hard to decide what to believe.
I do not believe every word in the Bible, but neither do I think it is complete rubbish. Obviously, it should be taken with a grain of salt (as everything else), but I also think it would be foolish to discard it as complete fiction.
I dont really know what to believe. Altough I think many of the miracles in the Bible can be explained scientifically, many things seems too fantastic for my scientifically educated mind to believe. I guess I fall in your category of Agnostic-Theist. I have some belief, but I am no fanatic or fundamentalist, and in lack of convincing evidence, I dont quite know exactly what to belive.
If you managed to read all this, thank you. 
Brutus - Braindead Idiot in Charge of Sniffing
Home of the Braindead
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| Why do you think? [message #61392] |
Sat, 10 January 2004 16:28 |
Brutus
Messages: 53
Registered: April 2003
Location: Norway
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Well, I didnt take it as you meant it as such, really, but I found it to be a good starting point for putting forward my own thoughts.
Maybe I should have used other words.
Oh, well...Good night to you all! (Altough i guess its still day for many of you! )
Brutus - Braindead Idiot in Charge of Sniffing
Home of the Braindead
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| Why do you think? [message #61435] |
Sat, 10 January 2004 20:19 |
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NukeIt15
Messages: 987
Registered: February 2003
Location: Out to lunch
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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So-called atheists deny the existence of God. That is the bottom line. If there was any doubt to that statement, at the very most, they would still be agnostic atheists (ones who believe that it is improbable that there is a God). Secondly, since Atheists deny God's existence, the ONLY recourse is to believe exclusively upon science and logic. This is their fatal flaw:
Since the universe has not been measured in every way, to the smallest piece of matter, etc... Atheists cannot logically say that "God does not exist". If a so-called Atheist makes that statement, they are a hypocrite in that they base a logic off an unproven theory. Unproven theories may have a logical deduction to them, however they cannot EVER be called logical unless proven (which hasn't/can't be done because of the size of universe).
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Speaking AS an atheist, most of that is about a truckload of bullshit. Sorry, but it really is...here goes:
First, the term "atheist" is EXTREMELY broad in its definition- all it means is "a person who does not believe in gods or devine beings." You can believe in an afterlife, magic, ghosts, and anything else that pops into your mind, so long as it doesn't classify as a god. Thus, you don't necessarily have to be Mr.Logic-is-All to be an atheist- in fact, you could be as Religious as any other religion's orthodox sects and still be an atheist. Personally, I do not believe in any form of god, yet I still believe in an afterlife.
Remember here that there are many different varieties of "monotheist(believes in one god)" and "polytheist(believes in more than one god)", yet they all fall under the same definition- atheism is not a religion in and of itself, but rather a broader term which encompasses several different belief systems. The term "atheist" is used to describe all people who don't believe in gods simply because there are no firmly established(read that: global) organizations under that title. Calling someone an atheist is akin to someone calling you a monotheist rather than Christian, Jewish, Muslim, etc. Got all that?
I realize you wrote that to say that neither side's case can be proved, but you might want to research a bit more before posting about what you think somoene else believes. 
"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived of the use of them." - Thomas Paine
Remember, kids: illiteracy is cool. If you took the time to read this, you are clearly a loser who will never get laid. You've been warned.
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| Why do you think? [message #61551] |
Sun, 11 January 2004 14:49 |
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Javaxcx
Messages: 1943
Registered: February 2003
Location: Canada, eh?
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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Actually, Atheist (by dictionary definition) is:
"1. One who disbelieves or denies the existence of a God, or supreme intelligent Being.
2. A godless person. [Obs.]
Syn: Infidel; unbeliever."
You might have your Godless "religions", but there comes a point where a religion just doesn't make plausable sense, but hey, I'm not going to tell you what to believe. Sure, you can believe there is no God, but you can also accept the existence of an afterlife. Unfortunately, when you do that, you're leaving a helluva lot of loose ends there. Whichever way you turn it around to be, there is always a being, entity, thought, whatever, greater (at some point in duration) which precedes the second cause of this universe, (ie. the big bang preceded by God [Christian]). Atheism may deny a supreme intellect, but in doing that, you can't answer any timeless questions such as "why are we here?" better than a poly/theist. And if you try and make the conclusive claim, you're still a hypocrite.
Sniper Extraordinaire
Read the FUD Rules before you come in and make an ass of yourself.
All your base are belong to us.
You have no chance to survive make your time.
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| Why do you think? [message #61564] |
Sun, 11 January 2004 16:05 |
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NukeIt15
Messages: 987
Registered: February 2003
Location: Out to lunch
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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Unfortunately, when you do that, you're leaving a helluva lot of loose ends there.
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It may sound like the cheesiest, crappiest, worst duck-out answer you've ever heard, but I prefer to think there are SOME things which should be left unanswered- who the hell cares WHY I'm here, I just want to exist and have some fun with it while I can, and whatever happens next- well, I'll deal with that when I get there.
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Whichever way you turn it around to be, there is always a being, entity, thought, whatever, greater (at some point in duration) which precedes the second cause of this universe, (ie. the big bang preceded by God [Christian]). Atheism may deny a supreme intellect, but in doing that, you can't answer any timeless questions such as "why are we here?" better than a poly/theist.
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If you're going to go that way, then I can say just as easily that the supposed supreme being was created by something else greater than itself- and that the creator was created by something greater still. And so on and so forth, ad infinitum- that's the "no possible end" way of thinking, that if there were ever a point where there was nothing, that nothing would ever be possible at all. Everything comes from somewhere, and everything goes to somewhere- there is no end of time, just as there was no beginning of time, and there can be no end to existence just as there can't be an absolute beginning to it.
Simply creating life doesn't make one a god- humans may go on to create a new level of existence some day- and wouldn't those beings we created, if they could not identify us directly, think of us as gods? IMHO, the belief in gods comes from a lack of understanding of who or what really put us here. Personally, I couldn't care less who or what that was- they must have seemed just as insignificant to their creators as we seem to them, and as our creations will one day seem to us.
All in my own opinion, of course- others, I know, believe differently.
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And if you try and make the conclusive claim, you're still a hypocrite.
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Pardon my idiocy, but what exactly IS the "conclusive claim"?
And I know I'm a hypocrite- there's no way you can ever believe in anything without NOT believing in something else which makes equal sense to someone else. My beliefs seem as stupid to a theist as a theists' beliefs seem to me.
"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived of the use of them." - Thomas Paine
Remember, kids: illiteracy is cool. If you took the time to read this, you are clearly a loser who will never get laid. You've been warned.
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| Why do you think? [message #61572] |
Sun, 11 January 2004 16:48 |
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Javaxcx
Messages: 1943
Registered: February 2003
Location: Canada, eh?
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| NukeIt15 |
and whatever happens next- well, I'll deal with that when I get there.
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I'm gonna stop you right there: What you've just stated, "whatever happens next". Now, I don't know your personal philosophy on life and whatnot, but when you said those 3 words, you're suggesting that you're unsure of what will happen. In doing so, you're not an atheist, but an agnostic atheist, one who believes that a God PROBABLY doesn't exist.
Where a theist says with complete confidence that God, with a 100% chance does exist (acceptance). An Atheist says that God, with a 100% does NOT exist (denial). Why people who call themselves either are being stupid, is for the reasons that I've said above. I'm not out to call you a moron, I'm just looking at the logical reasons why both atheism and theism are illogical (if that made any sense  ). I'm gonna explain my opinion about your explanation on atheism now.
If you go through your life (just using the examples you've given) believing that magic exists, but you deny that a God or supreme being created the magic or the world it exists in, then you MUST say that magic must have a logical explanation, whatever that explanation may be, (even if we haven't deduced that explanation yet).
Remember, in a world without a God (or supreme intellect which created this universe OR is greater than it) than you must believe that everything has a logical purpose to it. If you didn't, then you wouldn't believe that there is no God (or supremer thought). You couldn't. I know it sounds as if I'm going in circles, but I've been debating this for over 12 years with colleagues and profs, the concept of God always leads back to agnosticism. Not one of the polar opposites of theism and atheism.
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If you're going to go that way, then I can say just as easily that the supposed supreme being was created by something else greater than itself- and that the creator was created by something greater still. And so on and so forth, ad infinitum
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This will sound confusing upon first reading it, but once you get your head around the concept, it makes sense, and I'll say it's hypothetical as not to draw any conclusions, so bare with it:
The universe as we know it is created by a creator. The creator is perfect in every sense when looking from the perspective of the universe in question, because the creator defines all the parameters for the creation. Now, according to your theory from there, every "universe" as it were, would be caused by another. The creator in each case would ALWAYS appear to be a God from the 1st person perspective of the creation. It's the whole Lisa Simpson and the universe created in the tooth thing.
Understand? Read it a few times. It's a difficult concept to explain, sorry.
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Simply creating life doesn't make one a god- humans may go on to create a new level of existence some day- and wouldn't those beings we created, if they could not identify us directly, think of us as gods?
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From and omniscient point of view, you're dead on. But the fact of the matter is, we're in the 1st person perspective when it comes to that issue. So we can never make the claim either way, because there will be never be enough evidence for or against the concept of God unless He physically interacts and spells it out for everything on Earth.
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Pardon my idiocy, but what exactly IS the "conclusive claim"?
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To say "Yes, God exists." or "No, God does not exist".
[/i]
Sniper Extraordinaire
Read the FUD Rules before you come in and make an ass of yourself.
All your base are belong to us.
You have no chance to survive make your time.
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| Why do you think? [message #61587] |
Sun, 11 January 2004 19:41 |
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warranto
Messages: 2584
Registered: February 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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In all reality, the debate about God is a futile one. There is NO real proof to support the existance of God, and there is no proof to support the idea that there is no God.
People who don't believe in God try to argue so by requireing some sort of proof that he exists, like having a billion dollars deposited in their account, or some outrageous thing like that. Or they claim they need to see it to believe it. Both are self defeating arguments because of their inbread fallacies they exibit. In responce to the first arguement, why would God deposit that money in your account? You have done nothing to earn it, nor would he have a reason to do it in the first place. We have the unique ability that is referred to often as free will. We have the freedom to succeed, and the freedom to fail. When it happens to us, it is through our own fault. As for the arguement "Seeing is believing", this is the most rediculous thing anyone could have come up with. There are so many things that we have never seen, nor will ever see that we beieve in. The existance of atoms, the existance of rainforests, the existance of a billion dollars. I could go on, but there are too many examples to list them all. I challange you to dispute this, but I warn you it would be futile. For reason expressed when this IS challanged.
The arguements against the denial of God may not support Gods existance, but it does show how laughable the attempts to proove that God doesn't exist are.
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| Why do you think? [message #61594] |
Sun, 11 January 2004 20:25 |
setstyle
Messages: 101
Registered: July 2003
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Javaxcx: There is a difference between believing there is no a god and having no belief in a god... I think an atheist proclaiming that God just plainly doesn't exist undercuts his stand against a religious hold by creating an institution of his own. warranto, I agree with you in that neither side of the arguement can be proved, although such things as the law (God-given rights?) can be a bit biased.
your = possessive adjective
you're = you + are
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| Why do you think? [message #61605] |
Mon, 12 January 2004 00:01 |
SkitBra
Messages: 27
Registered: September 2003
Location: Sweden
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Warranto, if you "know" that there is a god and that he speaks with you then go tell him that ill be satisfied with the 2 km high letters "i am God" in the sky.
wouldnt that be so simple for him?
and i dont need to prove that he dont excist, you people who are trying to shove the god down other peoples throats need to prove that he excists and not by just saying "i know" because then we do know that you are a liar.
until there are undisputable proof like the one i mentioned above or other proof that i can see and that science and technology cant explain as anything other then a god then ill believe it.
but until then ill live my life and enjoy it without your god.
/SkitBra
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| Why do you think? [message #61607] |
Mon, 12 January 2004 01:51 |
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warranto
Messages: 2584
Registered: February 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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I'm shoving it down your throat? I never stated that I "know" there is a God, I just said that there is no plausible proof that there isn't one.
As for a 2km high banner, why would he want to do that? I don't claim to know God's mind, but what possible reason would he have to put up a banner?
So.. if you can provide ANY plausible proof that God doesn't exist, I'll stop my arguement.
Though I suppose you also don't believe in the existance of a consciousness, or the existance of feelings, the existance of ethics, the existance of "Crimson" as a human being, the existance of myself as a human being, the existance of reality itself. After all, there is no undisputable proof that any of these exist, nor can science and technology explain how/why some of them occur.
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