Home » Renegade Discussions » Mod Forum » C&C_The_Canyon (Wip infantry map)
| Re: C&C_The_Canyon (Wip infantry map) [message #457595 is a reply to message #457589] |
Tue, 11 October 2011 22:20   |
Blazea58
Messages: 408
Registered: May 2003
Karma: 0
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Commander |
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Don't get me wrong, i do agree with you on the fact that it doesn't seem very logical, but the fact is almost every single map in renegade does this. This is a small map, there isn't a whole lot i can do because even a cave being connected to both bases seems illogical also.
I clearly see the point you are trying to make, but i don't feel like ripping this map apart 100 times just to please one person who judges his own work as the only thing acceptable. I know you have changed and got much better at modeling, sure you even went to school for it, but you are making it seem like there is something entirely wrong with it's concept altogether.
Why on earth did Gdi and Nod create tunnels that connect to each base? I see no logic here, but it makes the map play out better with them.
A canyon with no exits or entry ways, yet both teams are fighting for this same tiberium field only a few hundred feet away?
How would one said team even create a base without the other team knowing they were already there to begin with, and construct tunnels that actually lead to the other base o.O
And how exactly did Gdi or Nod build the tunnel all the while making it connect to the other teams base only a few feet away? I don't consider this realistic at all what so ever, but i think it's a really fun map, thats what counts to me.
I have to keep the tunnels connecting to each other for gameplay reasons, i don't want one team to be able to just get up into the sniper perch without the other team being able to have any access to it.
Then there is the lower tunnel, which would have been some sort of Tiberium storage which Nod developed. When Gdi showed up they started tunneling into the same network to gain access to the storage facility and start destroying their structures to take over that area. In my mind it seems logical as any other "small" map, but to you it's never good enough lol.
I don't think i want to start building an entire cave network at this point in time, if anything ill remove the tunnels altogether o.O and give people just an open mountain map to fight on without any "unrealistic tunnels" connecting to each base, because that's never done in any of your maps either o.O
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| Re: C&C_The_Canyon (Wip infantry map) [message #457612 is a reply to message #457583] |
Wed, 12 October 2011 04:27 |
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GEORGE ZIMMER
Messages: 2605
Registered: March 2006
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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| Aircraftkiller wrote on Tue, 11 October 2011 18:43 |
words
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I think you're being a little bit too picky here. Sure, it's not realistic, but who cares? It's Renegade, barely anything is realistic anyway. And that's fine.
That being said, it would be sorta cool if the tunnels had cave elements (rocks protruding outward, things like that), to give the impression that they were built around a cave system or somesuch.
Toggle Spoiler| Scrin wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 13:22 |
| cAmpa wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 12:45 |
Scrin, stop pming people to get the building bars.
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FUCK YOU AND THIS SHIT GAME WITH YOUR SCRIPTS!!! I HAVE ASKING YOU AND ANOTHER NOOBS HERE ABOUT HELP WITH THAT BUILDING ICONS FEATURES FOR YEARS, BUT YOU KEEP IGNORING ME AND KEEP WRITE SHIT, SO BURN YOU AND YOUR ASSLICKERS FRIENDS, THIS TIME I'M NOT COME BACK!!!!!!!!!   
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| Re: C&C_The_Canyon (Wip infantry map) [message #457621 is a reply to message #457595] |
Wed, 12 October 2011 06:59 |
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Aircraftkiller
Messages: 8213
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars) |
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| Blazea58 wrote on Wed, 12 October 2011 01:20 |
Don't get me wrong, i do agree with you on the fact that it doesn't seem very logical, but the fact is almost every single map in renegade does this. This is a small map, there isn't a whole lot i can do because even a cave being connected to both bases seems illogical also.
I clearly see the point you are trying to make, but i don't feel like ripping this map apart 100 times just to please one person who judges his own work as the only thing acceptable. I know you have changed and got much better at modeling, sure you even went to school for it, but you are making it seem like there is something entirely wrong with it's concept altogether.
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There is something wrong with the concept that two opposing forces would cooperate to build an underground complex that would allow convenient access to their bases. Or, barring that, had this underground complex existed before - I really doubt that both teams would build directly on top of it so that they're both open to attack.
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Why on earth did Gdi and Nod create tunnels that connect to each base? I see no logic here, but it makes the map play out better with them.
A canyon with no exits or entry ways, yet both teams are fighting for this same tiberium field only a few hundred feet away?
How would one said team even create a base without the other team knowing they were already there to begin with, and construct tunnels that actually lead to the other base o.O
And how exactly did Gdi or Nod build the tunnel all the while making it connect to the other teams base only a few feet away? I don't consider this realistic at all what so ever, but i think it's a really fun map, thats what counts to me.
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Those were originally developed by Westwood's artists. I only finished them off. You should know that since you've been around long enough. What point would there be to removing the essence of what made them what they are?
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I have to keep the tunnels connecting to each other for gameplay reasons, i don't want one team to be able to just get up into the sniper perch without the other team being able to have any access to it.
Then there is the lower tunnel, which would have been some sort of Tiberium storage which Nod developed. When Gdi showed up they started tunneling into the same network to gain access to the storage facility and start destroying their structures to take over that area. In my mind it seems logical as any other "small" map, but to you it's never good enough lol.
I don't think i want to start building an entire cave network at this point in time, if anything ill remove the tunnels altogether o.O and give people just an open mountain map to fight on without any "unrealistic tunnels" connecting to each base, because that's never done in any of your maps either o.O
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You could easily make an underground cave formation that had an intricate design, without making it "unbalanced" for gameplay purposes. I already gave you ideas on how to do it. If you don't feel that my ideas are worth attempting, then sure; that's fine - I understand completely. It's your work. Don't look at it like I'm denigrating your work. Look at it as an opportunity to expand your horizons and see this design in a different way.
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| Re: C&C_The_Canyon (Wip infantry map) [message #457641 is a reply to message #457621] |
Wed, 12 October 2011 12:05 |
Blazea58
Messages: 408
Registered: May 2003
Karma: 0
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Commander |
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| Quote: |
There is something wrong with the concept that two opposing forces would cooperate to build an underground complex that would allow convenient access to their bases. Or, barring that, had this underground complex existed before - I really doubt that both teams would build directly on top of it so that they're both open to attack.
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All C&C games follow this theme, they are always fighting eachother in an environment that doesn't make sense. You forgot that even Fjords doesn't make sense then. Why wouldn't Gdi block off that cave entrance that leads into their sewer? Why on earth would they leave that unchecked?
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Those were originally developed by Westwood's artists. I only finished them off. You should know that since you've been around long enough. What point would there be to removing the essence of what made them what they are?
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I am fully aware that those were originally developed by westwood, but the fact is you could have just as easily taken out the tunnels or done something "Logical" with them.
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You could easily make an underground cave formation that had an intricate design, without making it "unbalanced" for gameplay purposes.
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A cave that leads to either base to me seems just as stupid as a tunnel that leads to both bases. It's pretty much going to seem unrealistic no matter what if that said cave leads to both bases, even if there is a bit of detail showing that it was broken into like on fjords.
If were talking about realism, then C&C isn't the right game. We have teams that can build structures instantly in less then a minute because they have a mobile construction yard. So building a tunnel that leads into a tiberium facility makes just as much sense, because they could have built it in a day for all we know o.O If this was Battlefield or some other game that actually simulates a real life situation, i would probably be doing things differently.
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| Re: C&C_The_Canyon (Wip infantry map) [message #457656 is a reply to message #456597] |
Wed, 12 October 2011 15:58 |
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GEORGE ZIMMER
Messages: 2605
Registered: March 2006
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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before this turns into ACK being a snobby faggot over videogames and Blazea defending himself, here's a few things the tunnels could use:
1: The floor textures are rather bland, and feel like something out of a parking garage or something. I feel like it could be a bit dirtier and have a more "cobbled together" feel, considering that it's meant to have been quickly made. Alternatively, it could be more metallic looking- like a high-end installation.
2: Those pillars feel... I dunno, tacked on. They lack style, and the textures don't much fit. I can't think of how they can be improved, but they stand out to me.
3: In general, it lacks a... theme, an ambiance. It's just metal and concrete. It doesn't give off the feel of being much of anything, y'know? Well, the tiberium stuff helps a lot, but other than that, the textures themselves feel a little uninspired.
Fix those things, and it'll look fantastic. The design itself, though, is really nice.
Toggle Spoiler| Scrin wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 13:22 |
| cAmpa wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 12:45 |
Scrin, stop pming people to get the building bars.
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FUCK YOU AND THIS SHIT GAME WITH YOUR SCRIPTS!!! I HAVE ASKING YOU AND ANOTHER NOOBS HERE ABOUT HELP WITH THAT BUILDING ICONS FEATURES FOR YEARS, BUT YOU KEEP IGNORING ME AND KEEP WRITE SHIT, SO BURN YOU AND YOUR ASSLICKERS FRIENDS, THIS TIME I'M NOT COME BACK!!!!!!!!!
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| Re: C&C_The_Canyon (Wip infantry map) [message #457667 is a reply to message #457641] |
Wed, 12 October 2011 17:41 |
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Aircraftkiller
Messages: 8213
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars) |
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| Blazea58 wrote on Wed, 12 October 2011 15:05 |
| Quote: |
There is something wrong with the concept that two opposing forces would cooperate to build an underground complex that would allow convenient access to their bases. Or, barring that, had this underground complex existed before - I really doubt that both teams would build directly on top of it so that they're both open to attack.
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All C&C games follow this theme, they are always fighting eachother in an environment that doesn't make sense. You forgot that even Fjords doesn't make sense then. Why wouldn't Gdi block off that cave entrance that leads into their sewer? Why on earth would they leave that unchecked?
| Quote: |
Those were originally developed by Westwood's artists. I only finished them off. You should know that since you've been around long enough. What point would there be to removing the essence of what made them what they are?
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I am fully aware that those were originally developed by westwood, but the fact is you could have just as easily taken out the tunnels or done something "Logical" with them.
| Quote: |
You could easily make an underground cave formation that had an intricate design, without making it "unbalanced" for gameplay purposes.
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A cave that leads to either base to me seems just as stupid as a tunnel that leads to both bases. It's pretty much going to seem unrealistic no matter what if that said cave leads to both bases, even if there is a bit of detail showing that it was broken into like on fjords.
If were talking about realism, then C&C isn't the right game. We have teams that can build structures instantly in less then a minute because they have a mobile construction yard. So building a tunnel that leads into a tiberium facility makes just as much sense, because they could have built it in a day for all we know o.O If this was Battlefield or some other game that actually simulates a real life situation, i would probably be doing things differently.
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Just because the factions aren't "realistic" does not mean that the terrain must also follow the same logic. Underground complexes don't suddenly sprout up out of nowhere. Caves are not stupid at all. I live in Florida, I'm used to the idea that there's a massive network of caves beneath my feet which hold our water supply.
Real life or not, no game is "realistic" and making terrain uninspired to match the mediocrity it's based off of does not help you grow as an artist. If you don't want my help, it's fine to say that you don't need it. The time I'm spending trying to type this to you could be spent eating dinner with my family right now. 
Like I said, I think most of this level you're building is great. I completely disagree on the way you've implemented these "tunnels" and I feel that you could do a lot more with them that would be visually interesting.
Speaking of Fjords: Nod had demolished that entrance. Hence why it's damaged-looking. There's nothing convenient about it either. If you leave from the entrance that says "RESTRICTED AREA - USE OF DEADLY FORCE AUTHORIZED" you'll find Guard Towers and the AGT toasting you.
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| Re: C&C_The_Canyon (Wip infantry map) [message #457683 is a reply to message #457667] |
Thu, 13 October 2011 00:33 |
Blazea58
Messages: 408
Registered: May 2003
Karma: 0
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Commander |
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If you don't want my help, it's fine to say that you don't need it.
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I really don't mind the criticism, i guess i just didn't share the same views as you. I never really cared much about the theme of the maps in renegade as much as i did about the actual gameplay presented.
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Like I said, I think most of this level you're building is great. I completely disagree on the way you've implemented these "tunnels" and I feel that you could do a lot more with them that would be visually interesting.
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Well i just don't know how else i can make tunnels that are functional and also serve the sole purpose of brining people a very short distance without having to worry about creating a cave system. I just don't see it in this map, it was designed to be a small map, which has very short distances between bases, and "tunnels" which connect them together, i can't expect you to like the idea of these ones either, but i wanted something with that quick access to each base, without the need to use "caves".
Can't expect you to like this at all but what the hell i have lived on playing standard renegade maps for years, so i am very used to that overall theme.
I just don't know what else is going to be better, i didn't want any buildings that you can go into, or cave networks and complex design underneath.
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| Re: C&C_The_Canyon (Wip infantry map) [message #457705 is a reply to message #456597] |
Thu, 13 October 2011 05:40 |
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GEORGE ZIMMER
Messages: 2605
Registered: March 2006
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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Well, what you COULD do is have a few rocks protruding from the sides of the tunnel or whatever, as well as various blocked up doors that would seemingly lead to other areas.
Basically, make it look like an old mining shaft that was turned into a tiberium storage facility or something.
That's of course assuming you're willing to do more modeling work. Design wise though, I really like how they're set up.
Toggle Spoiler| Scrin wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 13:22 |
| cAmpa wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 12:45 |
Scrin, stop pming people to get the building bars.
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FUCK YOU AND THIS SHIT GAME WITH YOUR SCRIPTS!!! I HAVE ASKING YOU AND ANOTHER NOOBS HERE ABOUT HELP WITH THAT BUILDING ICONS FEATURES FOR YEARS, BUT YOU KEEP IGNORING ME AND KEEP WRITE SHIT, SO BURN YOU AND YOUR ASSLICKERS FRIENDS, THIS TIME I'M NOT COME BACK!!!!!!!!!
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| Re: C&C_The_Canyon (Wip infantry map) [message #457798 is a reply to message #457589] |
Fri, 14 October 2011 05:30 |
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crazfulla
Messages: 667
Registered: September 2006
Location: Aotearoa
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| Aircraftkiller wrote on Thu, 13 October 2011 10:16 |
I think your problem is that you're not visualizing what I'm thinking of.
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I don't think anyone here would. Strange things go on in your head that only a physologist could begin to comprehend.
| Aircraftkiller wrote on Tue, 11 October 2011 20:14 |
There needs to be some kind of logic to this.
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No there doesn't. A bit ironic coming from you, considering a number of your own maps contain tunnels that link the bases.
| "GEoDLeto wrote:" |
so what you are saying it is gonna take even longer before this thing is finished
So the topic title should be changed to: a sucky little "teaser" from C&C Reborn has been released
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| "halo2pac wrote:" |
Unless they are girls, I am not going to bone them.
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| Re: C&C_The_Canyon (Wip infantry map) [message #457812 is a reply to message #456597] |
Fri, 14 October 2011 09:17 |
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Aircraftkiller
Messages: 8213
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars) |
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A lot of them being really old, having been made from 2002-2005. Long before I attended art college and graduated. Long before I made something like Fjords. It would be silly to hold me to standards of work I made when I was just turning 20. And regardless of what I've done in the past or am doing now, it doesn't change my point or invalidate it.
Instead of personally attacking me, might I recommend that you participate in the thread by contributing something to it? Perhaps by helping the author?
[Updated on: Fri, 14 October 2011 09:31] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: C&C_The_Canyon (Wip infantry map) [message #457862 is a reply to message #457812] |
Fri, 14 October 2011 19:12 |
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crazfulla
Messages: 667
Registered: September 2006
Location: Aotearoa
Karma: 0
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| Aircraftkiller wrote on Fri, 14 October 2011 09:17 |
Instead of personally attacking me, might I recommend that you participate in the thread by contributing something to it? Perhaps by helping the author?
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That wasn't a personal attack. It was a valid point. Indeed the game is old, and thats why it doesn't matter if they are illogical. What are you Mr Spock all of a sudden? If I could offer any advice to OP it would be to keep it simple. Don't buy into your every piece of advice because in a game that is almost 10 years old, certainly less is more. That said, I do appreciate you trying to help others develop their map makign skills, the more people that can make playable maps the better.
Live long and prosper.
| "GEoDLeto wrote:" |
so what you are saying it is gonna take even longer before this thing is finished
So the topic title should be changed to: a sucky little "teaser" from C&C Reborn has been released
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| "halo2pac wrote:" |
Unless they are girls, I am not going to bone them.
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