Home » General Discussions » General Discussion » What's being done to stop cheats
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| What's being done to stop cheats [message #46324] |
Wed, 10 September 2003 04:37   |
fl00d3d
Messages: 1107
Registered: August 2003
Location: Iowa, USA
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star)
Viva la Resistance! |
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Interesting concept. This was actually an idea I had for a full blown mod a long time ago (real-world damage).
You ideas and interests should also be shared with us at the Tsunami Alliance so it can (in turn) be shared with the programmers.
Regards,
Sean
aka "fl00d3d"
Founder, Tsunami Alliance
http://www.tsunami-alliance.com
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| What's being done to stop cheats [message #46425] |
Wed, 10 September 2003 19:02 |
HuskyTech
Messages: 4
Registered: August 2003
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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| Quote: |
Cheaters are cowards; they are the terrorists of the world, blowing up trade centers, and stealing airplanes to do their cowardly deed. Cheaters are in the same category as those that kill innocent people with suicide bombs, even more cowardly are the cheaters that convince the younger cheaters to be this bomber. Dmbaz Fkrs, just kill themselves and make the world hate chicken cheaters even more!
The Meek will inherit the earth. The cheaters will burn in the gates of hell. I curse all cheaters that read this. Wrecked the best game that I’ve played in 10 years, dam them all to hell.
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Someone really needs to remind you that Renegade is a "game".. when GDI zaps a baddy .. they don't actually die.. so please for your own sake and those anywhere near you...try grasp this thing called "reality".. you see in "reality" murderous psychopatchic nutcases.. or terrorist if you will.. actually kill people.. actually fly planes into buidlings stick dynamite in their heads and blow things up... a cheater in any "game" may be an irritation .. but everyone lives through the map cycles.. I hope this helps you in some fashion.. for anyone that feels that strongly over a "GAME" needs as much help as they can get.. .
-To Crimson
Renguard can and will be cracked.. (I posted one method although I have yet to see the program.. but certainly cannot wait for its release).. I fear your claims that Renguard will be secure and cheating will be come to an end is ill advised.. and blatently inaccurate. however it poses an interesting challenge to people .. well atleast I would hope..  can't wait for the release.. oh and you never answered my question.. what about detection routines for say .. d3d hooks? hooking/patching Renguard itself.. which have nothing to do with crc checks on game files etc.. (which from you description and given the current selection of public cheats is what Renguard is designed to detect/block?)
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| What's being done to stop cheats [message #46430] |
Wed, 10 September 2003 19:27 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7427
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars)
ADMINISTRATOR |
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I'm not programming RenGuard. I'm PR. your question should be directed to them. However considering the attitude you portrayed in your visit to the RenGuard team, I doubt they'll help you much.
I'm the bawss.
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| What's being done to stop cheats [message #46460] |
Thu, 11 September 2003 03:48 |
fl00d3d
Messages: 1107
Registered: August 2003
Location: Iowa, USA
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star)
Viva la Resistance! |
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They always tell you, "you shouldn't use constants, because nothing is truely constant".
You're not supposed to say, "Never, Always, Definitely, etc".
But here is one thing that I WILL say:
There will NEVER be ANYTHING that is COMPLETELY secure. How is that for constants? When I was a little boy venturing into the wonderful realm of the underground --- that's what I was taught by my mentor. And it's so true.
Someone tell me ONE thing that is completely secure and cannot be hacked or cracked. ANYTHING.
And if you legitimately give me something, I will either find a way to hack it, crack it myself --- or someone will do it for me.
My point is this ---> Don't get your hopes up about any solution that will be provided to counter cheating. The best thing we can do as a community is to produce these anti-cheat tools and educate everyone about how cheats work and what they are.
Unfortunately what it's going to boil down to is some people will have a 'good' reputation while others do not.
Let's just focus on one thing at a time. Right now we're focusing on producing a quality anti-cheat that has the confidence of players. And a program that is PROVEN not to have bugs, spyware, virii, or backdoors embedded in them.
To the front lines!!!!!!!!!
/r
Sean
aka "fl00d3d
Founder, Tsunami Alliance
http://www.tsunami-alliance.com
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| What's being done to stop cheats [message #46463] |
Thu, 11 September 2003 04:14 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7427
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars)
ADMINISTRATOR |
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I have nothing to disagree with in that post. RenGuard isn't going to be 100% foolproof, but anything is better than what we have, and we'll keep fighting against cracks as long as there are players in the WOL servers.
I also believe the solution shouldn't have any virii, backdoors, or spyware. However, just like every program isn't 100% secure, those holes ARE in fact bugs in the most general terms, and therefore we wouldn't make a claim that RenGuard is bug-free or unhackable. But we're damn well going to squash every bug and close every hole that's found.
I'm the bawss.
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| What's being done to stop cheats [message #46496] |
Thu, 11 September 2003 08:07 |
fl00d3d
Messages: 1107
Registered: August 2003
Location: Iowa, USA
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star)
Viva la Resistance! |
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Outstanding.
You mentioned "for WOL". I'm assuming you mean for all multiplayer. Correct? Your solution is not limited to the WOL software, is it? Or is it going to be patchable to the FDS and LFDS as well?.
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| What's being done to stop cheats [message #46504] |
Thu, 11 September 2003 08:33 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7427
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars)
ADMINISTRATOR |
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You're right. I play WOL like 99% of the time, so that was a mis-type on my part. As I said many times before, RenGuard works on GSA equally well.
I'm the bawss.
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| What's being done to stop cheats [message #46546] |
Thu, 11 September 2003 09:30 |
destruktv
Messages: 14
Registered: September 2003
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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fl00d3d wrote:
| Quote: |
Someone tell me ONE thing that is completely secure and cannot be hacked or cracked. ANYTHING.
And if you legitimately give me something, I will either find a way to hack it, crack it myself --- or someone will do it for me.
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ANYTHING..EH?
Try to hack these three that come to mind, NASA, FBI, CIA. Come on, shut down the space program in the case of NASA or get privilaged information in the case of FBI or CIA... Problem? Ok try the one below.
Crack this message:
-----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-----
Version: PGP 8.0.2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=h9GB
-----END PGP MESSAGE-----
Let me know what it reads... Good luck!!!
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| What's being done to stop cheats [message #46594] |
Thu, 11 September 2003 13:51 |
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Wizard17
Messages: 19
Registered: September 2003
Location: Naramata BC
Karma: 0
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Crimson, thanks for explaining that RenGuard works on GSA as well. I play mostly on RenBattle (Gamespy) because they use lots of the new maps and they run a tight server.
They ban cheaters and have strict language rules in the game. A lot of pretty good players hang out there. Give them a try sometime.
There are lots of maps to D/L though, 10 mappacks now with 60 maps in their rotation currently.
Wiz
New Laws
The Law of Avoiding Oversell: When putting cheese in a mousetrap, always leave room for the mouse.
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| What's being done to stop cheats [message #46680] |
Fri, 12 September 2003 07:51 |
Dogg
Messages: 63
Registered: August 2003
Location: Pittsburg C.A./Washington...
Karma: 0
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| destruktv |
fl00d3d wrote:
| Quote: |
Someone tell me ONE thing that is completely secure and cannot be hacked or cracked. ANYTHING.
And if you legitimately give me something, I will either find a way to hack it, crack it myself --- or someone will do it for me.
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ANYTHING..EH?
Try to hack these three that come to mind, NASA, FBI, CIA. Come on, shut down the space program in the case of NASA or get privilaged information in the case of FBI or CIA... Problem? Ok try the one below.
Let me know what it reads... Good luck!!!
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If you care to know why anything can be cracked since you think NASA, CIA, ro FBI are gods...although I would bet the NSA is better than them, take a second to comprehend this into your mind...
A man (or woman) wrote the protocol or designed the software or machine to secure those items. Therefore that same man (or woman) knows more about it than you ever will and can easily bypass the protections they built into that item...period. Therefore, NOTHING, can ever be 100% secure from humans until a machine with its own intelligence writes or designs it's own protocol without human intervention and without a means to extract that technology from that machine that wrote that protocol or designed that item...
Also just FYI, RSA SecureID technology is one of the few items not yet cracked (at least publicly) by the NSA or anyone else for that matter...
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| What's being done to stop cheats [message #46686] |
Fri, 12 September 2003 08:08 |
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Wizard17
Messages: 19
Registered: September 2003
Location: Naramata BC
Karma: 0
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To TheGunRun
Actually that sounds like a good idea, it might dissuade those who might otherwise D/L cheats - as one moderator on one server did and found himself banned on another server.
It sounds like it would be a bit like the "Excessive" mod for Q3A and would give a change of pace if included in the map rotation. It would NOT be a cheat because ALL the players would have the same advantages hard coded in deliberately by the map author/modder. It is the sort of thing that would get old quickly if that were the only map but as part of the rotation it might be fun.
Wiz
New Laws
The Law of Avoiding Oversell: When putting cheese in a mousetrap, always leave room for the mouse.
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| What's being done to stop cheats [message #46822] |
Fri, 12 September 2003 20:34 |
eh4canada
Messages: 8
Registered: September 2003
Location: canada....DUH :)
Karma: 0
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is renguard gonna be a seprate program that u will have to run other than renegade? wouldnt it be easy to fool? i can think of a few ways.....some might be preventable and some might have been though of already but here are some ways that renguard might be foolable(cant think of a better word for it)
-playing in a non-renguard server with a cheat then remove the file from renegade data and use /join to jion another server.....i think u need to restart renegade before a deleted/added w3d file will take effect
-edit always.dat, theres probably a way to do it and scince it is a file normally in renegade/data renguard probably wont detect if it is edited
-use 2 renegade/data folders....one for renguard, one for playing renegade
if u think this post is too sensitive feel free to delete it. if i could think of these thing i dont think the cheaters will have a problem thinking of a way....is renguard gonna protect against these things?
reguard aint gonna be foolproof but anything is gonna be better......can wait till it comes out
WOL: HTCanada
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| What's being done to stop cheats [message #46945] |
Sat, 13 September 2003 12:53 |
destruktv
Messages: 14
Registered: September 2003
Karma: 0
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Again what was said...
"Someone tell me ONE thing that is completely secure and cannot be hacked or cracked. ANYTHING.
And if you legitimately give me something, I will either find a way to hack it, crack it myself --- or someone will do it for me."
You asked for "anything".... this is "anything" you generalised, well answer, or is your "gut thin"? If you can't decrypt the message then be a man and admit you were wrong....
If you can crack anything decypher the message, I know the theories, thank you ppl... But practice is what i believe fl00d3d was talking about. Well brute force the 128 bit RSA key....you might need to try only about 2^128 = 340,282,366,920,938,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 possible key combinations which on your stand alone computer or networked computers will take an XX number of decades (test your comp. see how many keys/sec. it can do). <<< This shows that you don't know what you are talking about there.
The author of PGP by the way is Philip R. Zimmermann.
In regards of hacking agencies like CIA, FBI and NASA. I don't think they are God, but I also am very sure that no one employed at that government level will compromise any security for anyone and put their rear on the line, would you? And also its not just one person that maintains security there, there is a whole team, the system is also constantly monitored... and every aspect of the system is inspected by senior management there is no way to leave a known crack... Either way as I said no one employed at that level will risk it... But the isssue is once again different... fl00d3d was saying he can hack anything... well I can say anything too... proving it is a different issue... what I want to see is credibility, fl00d3d is talking about trust, well, how credible is fl00d3d? Can I and/or you trust him?
I have given you two things that fall under so called 'anything' category fl00d3d either crack/hack one or just say you were wrong and you can't...don't give me anymore theory.
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| What's being done to stop cheats [message #47476] |
Mon, 15 September 2003 11:14 |
destruktv
Messages: 14
Registered: September 2003
Karma: 0
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fl00d3d, I don't have time to have a hacker war with you... Judging from what you are saying on here it would be a complete waste of my time. Also, even though I know what I'm talking about, I do not consider myself a cracker/hacker. There is one thing that I now know and this is you don't know what you are talking about.
'Deep crack' and just about 100,000 computers all over the world do only 245 billion keys / second. This mathematical formula tells you how many seconds it would take for brute forcing 128 bit encryption using the above mentioned network:
340,282,366,920,938,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (combinations) / 245000000000 (combinations / sec) = 138890762008546122448.97959183673 (seconds)
To get years:
138890762008546122448.97959183673 / 60 (seconds in a minute) / 60 (minutes in an hour) / 24 (hours in a day) / 365.242199 (days in a year) = 4401276665436.7504967934707904115 (years).
Now, can you stop saying that it can be brute forced (cracked)?
Apart from that I have pretty much ruled out what I needed to for myself... Best of luck to you fl00d3d.
One thing that I think is worse than someone who is full of it, is someone who can't admit that they are wrong when WRONG is looking them in the eye!
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