Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » Is it possible to be shocked but not surprised?
| Re: Is it possible to be shocked but not surprised? [message #459075 is a reply to message #459073] |
Mon, 07 November 2011 10:30   |
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Taz
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| Spoony wrote on Mon, 07 November 2011 10:00 |
Have you ever seen me "lash out" at - let's pick a couple of examples - Sikhs or Quakers? Can you find a single post where I rant about those?
Isn't the problem more likely to be the fact that the Catholic Church keeps getting caught doing horrifically bad things? Kidnapping children from their parents and then selling them? Then a guy like me makes a civilised post about it on a forum, and that's 'fanatical'.
You even say you know first-hand how badly this organisation behaves. Why, then, do you think I'm the one with the explaining to do?
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Whenever i read your posts around here, it's got something to do with religion and how bad it is. (atleast, most of it)
I'm sorry for not instantly jumping on your mindless bandwagon in which we all spit on religion and religious organizations, but i've grown tired of that. If anything, it's just as bad as evangelical folks telling me i'm going to hell for not believing in god and shoving it down my throat.
Like tankclash pointed out last page, the actions of a few individuals cannot be attributed to an entire organization.
That's like saying atheists are evil because stalin and mao murdered millions.
I think it's atheists like you who give atheism a bad name. Instead of forcing it down someone's throat, try to be more assertive.
In response, you'll be more likely to get some respect.
If you got personal problems with religion, go get some professional help and try to let it go.
[Updated on: Mon, 07 November 2011 11:39] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Is it possible to be shocked but not surprised? [message #459080 is a reply to message #459075] |
Mon, 07 November 2011 12:02 |
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GEORGE ZIMMER
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| Taz wrote on Mon, 07 November 2011 10:30 |
Whenever i read your posts around here, it's got something to do with religion and how bad it is. (atleast, most of it)
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How often do you read these forums, then? Unless you specifically mean heated discussions and debates... but Spoony's also probably one of the few people who actually play Renegade.
| Taz wrote on Mon, 07 November 2011 10:30 |
I'm sorry for not instantly jumping on your mindless bandwagon in which we all spit on religion and religious organizations,
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"I'm not going to join your bandwagon of objectively criticizing organizations that rely on indoctrination and brainwashing!"
Seriously, I have my own religious beliefs, but as time goes on, I realize how fucked up a lot of religious organizations can be.
| Taz wrote on Mon, 07 November 2011 10:30 |
If anything, it's just as bad as evangelical folks telling me i'm going to hell for not believing in god and shoving it down my throat.
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ou don't have to read Spoony's posts- especially ones about religion.
But how often can you "swear" in public? How often can you publicly claim homosexuality is not a sin without getting at LEAST a couple of "IT SAYS SO IN THE BIBLE" folks? How often can you say "I think that a woman should have the right to her own body, even if it means doing something I disagree with such as abortion. The government should have no right to tell her what to do." without getting a fuckton of guilt tripping speeches and images about how abortion is terrible.
It's like going "COME ON GUYS STOP PICKING ON THIS REALLY POPULAR BAND THEY NEED TO MAKE MONEY TOO STOP IT YOU GUYS I DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO LISTEN TO THIS" on a video about a less than popular band that is entirely dwarfed by the hypothetical popular band.
| Taz wrote on Mon, 07 November 2011 10:30 |
Like tankclash pointed out last page, the actions of a few individuals cannot be attributed to an entire organization.
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You're entirely right. I don't get why Christians are seen as charitable, either.
| Taz wrote on Mon, 07 November 2011 10:30 |
That's like saying atheists are evil because stalin and mao murdered millions.
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No... it's not like that, it's not like that at all. Granted, that's a logical argument for when someone says "ATHEISM IS PEACEFUL THOUGH AND ALL OUR WORLD PROBLEMS WOULD BE SOLVED IF NO ONE WAS RELIGIOUS!", but that's not even what's being said here.
| Taz wrote on Mon, 07 November 2011 10:30 |
I think it's atheists like you who give atheism a bad name. Instead of forcing it down someone's throat, try to be more assertive.
In response, you'll be more likely to get some respect.
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lol wait what
Usually being too assertive can be seen as "forcing it down someone's throat"
But anyway, I used to see Spoony as an arrogant cock, but as time goes by I see why he has a heavy disdain for at least organized religion. He's a lot better and well rounded than, say, some stupid 15 year old cock on youtube who "hates religion" because his mom and dad want him to go to church (even though they don't force him and understand his decision).
| Taz wrote on Mon, 07 November 2011 10:30 |
If you got personal problems with religion, go get some professional help and try to let it go.
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"Doc, I got some problems. I don't think people should have the right to force others what to do based solely on their own convictions that are fueled by a combination of generational indoctrination, brainwashing, and environmental conditioning. You gotta help me, doc."
makes perfect sense!
Toggle Spoiler| Scrin wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 13:22 |
| cAmpa wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 12:45 |
Scrin, stop pming people to get the building bars.
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FUCK YOU AND THIS SHIT GAME WITH YOUR SCRIPTS!!! I HAVE ASKING YOU AND ANOTHER NOOBS HERE ABOUT HELP WITH THAT BUILDING ICONS FEATURES FOR YEARS, BUT YOU KEEP IGNORING ME AND KEEP WRITE SHIT, SO BURN YOU AND YOUR ASSLICKERS FRIENDS, THIS TIME I'M NOT COME BACK!!!!!!!!!   
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| Re: Is it possible to be shocked but not surprised? [message #459563 is a reply to message #459074] |
Thu, 17 November 2011 12:06 |
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Spoony
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| TankClash wrote on Mon, 07 November 2011 10:20 |
Don't tell me some of you are basing religion off of a lie they told themselves "oh god told me to steal and sell children to raise money for the church!" nonsense...
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Or because they think Catholic parents will be better parents, and that they are so sure of this that they think they have the right to overrule the wishes of the actual parents. Also see the thing in the article about Franco's influence (Franco always being a staunch ally of the Catholic Church)
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You can't base the actions of an individual sects against a religious group as a whole.
Faulty generalization.
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Decades. Thousands and thousands and thousands of children and their parents' lives ruined. You don't see anything institutional about that? You don't think anyone in the Catholic Church knew what was going on? Haven't you noticed the way they react when one of their employees rapes a child?
| Taz wrote |
Whenever i read your posts around here, it's got something to do with religion and how bad it is. (atleast, most of it)
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Don't you think there is anything bad in that article?
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I'm sorry for not instantly jumping on your mindless bandwagon in which we all spit on religion and religious organizations
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If your position had any credibility before you said that, it has less now.
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but i've grown tired of that. If anything, it's just as bad as evangelical folks telling me i'm going to hell for not believing in god and shoving it down my throat.
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And now even less. I think you would have to try very hard indeed to find a statement from me where I threaten someone with horrific punishment for not being the right religion. Don't be a fucking idiot.
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Like tankclash pointed out last page, the actions of a few individuals cannot be attributed to an entire organization.
That's like saying atheists are evil because stalin and mao murdered millions.
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No, it's not. Firstly, the Catholic Church is a specific organisation, run by specific people. One might be justified in saying "The Catholic Church is evil because it did X and Y" (and there are certainly enough evil Xs and Ys in this case) - though it wouldn't justify saying that all Catholics are evil. "Atheism" isn't a specific organisation. You could say "Stalin's regime in Russia" was evil, for example, but that has no connection to myself whatsoever; neither myself nor Stalin think the Judeo-Christian god is real, but I expect neither you nor Hitler think the Hindu gods are real; so what? What connection does this mean you and Hitler share?
Secondly, see above re: institutionalisation
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I think it's atheists like you who give atheism a bad name.
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There you have it, ladies and gentlemen.
I link to a report about some truly horrific actions by a specific organisation. And in doing so, I "give atheism a bad name."
I'm starting to think you've completely lost your mind.
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Instead of forcing it down someone's throat, try to be more assertive.
In response, you'll be more likely to get some respect.
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I'm not sure what you think I'm forcing down anybody's throat with this thread. Atheism? What thread have you been reading? Or are you just... thick as pigshit?
And given how obvious it is that you -a- don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about and -b- don't seem to care very much about anything important, what makes you think your respect is worth my attention?
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If you got personal problems with religion, go get some professional help and try to let it go.
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I think the people who need professional help are the ones whose lives have been ruined by the actions described in this article. Hopefully it will be available to them. Hopefully the criminals who inflicted this misery upon them will be held accountable. But I suspect you're more concerned with me.
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| Re: Is it possible to be shocked but not surprised? [message #459580 is a reply to message #459563] |
Thu, 17 November 2011 21:48 |
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Starbuzz
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| Spoony wrote on Thu, 17 November 2011 12:06 |
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Like tankclash pointed out last page, the actions of a few individuals cannot be attributed to an entire organization.
That's like saying atheists are evil because stalin and mao murdered millions.
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No, it's not. Firstly, the Catholic Church is a specific organisation, run by specific people. One might be justified in saying "The Catholic Church is evil because it did X and Y" (and there are certainly enough evil Xs and Ys in this case) - though it wouldn't justify saying that all Catholics are evil. "Atheism" isn't a specific organisation. You could say "Stalin's regime in Russia" was evil, for example, but that has no connection to myself whatsoever; neither myself nor Stalin think the Judeo-Christian god is real, but I expect neither you nor Hitler think the Hindu gods are real; so what? What connection does this mean you and Hitler share?
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well-worded there; it's interesting that Hitler is always left out whenever a religious person uses this argument and cites Stalin and Mao.
Atheism isn't an institution, organization, philosophy, or creed. It isn't even a way of life let alone a belief system. It is simply a description and goes along with me saying I have black eyes and black hair.
If I were use "theism" and "deism" to describe an organiztion, how asinine would I look? That's how asinine it is when "atheism" is seen as an organization/belief system.
As far as Stalin and Mao killing religious people, it has nothing to do with them not personally having a god to believe in. Both dictators targeted the religious because they were political enemies of communism. In their plans, the church had to be subdued if communism was to have had its way; hence the deaths of millions of people (which included other political enemies of communism who didn't prescribe to any religion as well).
Hitler is always left out of these debates (cos it is well-known he was religious). But who in their right mind would cite Hitler and his belief in God/his pro-Christian stance and equate that with Christians today? Wouldn't that be totally stupid? Amazingly, you see some folks cite Stalin/Mao and equate them with atheists! What a disgrace...
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| Re: Is it possible to be shocked but not surprised? [message #459589 is a reply to message #457987] |
Fri, 18 November 2011 00:13 |
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Spoony
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actually, when people try to say atheism was bad because the worst mass murderers were atheists, hitler used to be the first name cited, and they thought it was case closed by doing so. the fact hitler was never an atheist at all doesn't actually refute this argument because it isn't even an argument in the first place. not to mention how obviously theocratic stalin and mao's regimes were, not to mention all the other terrible dictators and genocides that were religious... they always seem to be left out of the debate.
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| Re: Is it possible to be shocked but not surprised? [message #459603 is a reply to message #457987] |
Fri, 18 November 2011 05:41 |
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Spoony
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everything about stalin's and mao's regimes was religious... the concept of an infallible leader who can't be questioned, the reliance upon faith instead of evidence, the concept of thoughtcrime as something that can be legislated and punished, the concept of everything good that happens being thanks to the supreme being's kindness and wisdom while everything bad that happens is a plot by his enemy...
you often hear it said that stalin was anti-religion. no, he was anti-rival-religion, like religion invariably is when it has the power to be.
as for hitler, it's too simplistic to call him a catholic (it's much closer to the truth than calling him an atheist would be, but that's besides the point). it's true that european fascism literally was the catholic right-wing in the beginning, it's true that the catholic church held cosy relations with every fascist regime in europe until the very end (even after the death of hitler) and it's true that the catholic church was an officially anti-semitic organisation all the way until the 1960's (the thing that made it change its mind on that was the general shift in the zeitgeist rather than the holocaust). but hitler himself was a kind of weird blend of nordic blood myths, leader worship, all that aryan nonsense, and the anti-semitism of fascism's catholic origins.
and hitler didn't just flick a switch and make everyone in germany hate jews all of a sudden - anti-semitism had been bubbling away in europe for centuries thanks to the christian churches, especially the catholic church.
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| Re: Is it possible to be shocked but not surprised? [message #459614 is a reply to message #457987] |
Fri, 18 November 2011 13:26 |
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nikki6ixx
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Hitler and Stalin acted the way they did because they were dicks. There are Catholic dicks, atheist dicks, Islamic dicks, and circumcised Jewish dicks.
Dicks will pick the most convenient excuse to advance their dickery and religion is a particularly easy one.
Renegade:
| Aircraftkiller wrote on Fri, 10 January 2014 16:56 |
The only game where everyone competes to be an e-janitor.
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| Re: Is it possible to be shocked but not surprised? [message #461340 is a reply to message #457987] |
Thu, 05 January 2012 14:18 |
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Spoony
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bit of a tangential question, but oh well... guess my last reply completely stumped you but you don't have the good grace to just stop posting
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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| Re: Is it possible to be shocked but not surprised? [message #461342 is a reply to message #461335] |
Thu, 05 January 2012 15:12 |
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GEORGE ZIMMER
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| Taz wrote on Thu, 05 January 2012 12:29 |
| Spoony wrote on Thu, 17 November 2011 12:06 |
wall-o-text
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And you think venting your anger here on this small forum is going to change things even one single bit?
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LOL those silly people and their logic. Can't they see that it just does nothing? FAIL @ YOU GUYS, LOL! LOSERS!
Toggle Spoiler| Scrin wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 13:22 |
| cAmpa wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 12:45 |
Scrin, stop pming people to get the building bars.
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FUCK YOU AND THIS SHIT GAME WITH YOUR SCRIPTS!!! I HAVE ASKING YOU AND ANOTHER NOOBS HERE ABOUT HELP WITH THAT BUILDING ICONS FEATURES FOR YEARS, BUT YOU KEEP IGNORING ME AND KEEP WRITE SHIT, SO BURN YOU AND YOUR ASSLICKERS FRIENDS, THIS TIME I'M NOT COME BACK!!!!!!!!!
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