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| Re: BHS Ladder [message #438704 is a reply to message #438703] |
Sun, 31 October 2010 15:53   |
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| trooprm02 wrote on Sun, 31 October 2010 22:37 |
| Crimson wrote on Sun, 31 October 2010 11:09 |
It's fairly simple logic that certain server settings skew results
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Yes, but evaluating and comparing advantages/disadvantages for each setting is just unnecessary and would cause too much conflict is what I was saying (not that it couldn't be done).
@liquid, if you'd like to meet me in a clanwar server, ill show you exactly what I mean, as in your input into how a ladder should be run is practically invalid (based on your gameplay knowledge, or lack of it).
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For fuck's sake, you're worse than children! TAKE YOUR BICKERING TO A SINGLE THREAD IN AN APPROPIATE SUBFORUM. I WILL NOT DO IT FOR YOU THIS TIME.
TROOP, STOP POSTING INSULTS.
LIQUID, DON'T REPLY TO HIM, OR BAIT HIM.
Renguard is a wonderful initiative
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| halokid wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 08:46 |
| R315r4z0r wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 15:35 |
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the hell is that?
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| Re: BHS Ladder [message #438705 is a reply to message #438704] |
Sun, 31 October 2010 16:24 |
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EvilWhiteDragon
Messages: 3751
Registered: October 2005
Location: The Netherlands
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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| CarrierII wrote on Sun, 31 October 2010 23:53 |
| trooprm02 wrote on Sun, 31 October 2010 22:37 |
| Crimson wrote on Sun, 31 October 2010 11:09 |
It's fairly simple logic that certain server settings skew results
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Yes, but evaluating and comparing advantages/disadvantages for each setting is just unnecessary and would cause too much conflict is what I was saying (not that it couldn't be done).
@liquid, if you'd like to meet me in a clanwar server, ill show you exactly what I mean, as in your input into how a ladder should be run is practically invalid (based on your gameplay knowledge, or lack of it).
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For fuck's sake, you're worse than children! TAKE YOUR BICKERING TO A SINGLE THREAD IN AN APPROPIATE SUBFORUM. I WILL NOT DO IT FOR YOU THIS TIME.
TROOP, STOP POSTING INSULTS.
LIQUID, DON'T REPLY TO HIM, OR BAIT HIM.
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We all gotta admit, it's funny hearing this of the guy that a couple of years ago though that 1vs1 was the ultimate demonstration of skill and experience in the game called C&C Renegade.
BlackIntel admin/founder/PR dude (not a coder)
Please visit http://www.blackintel.org/
| V, V for Vendetta |
People should not be afraid of their governments.
Governments should be afraid of their people.
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[Updated on: Sun, 31 October 2010 16:25] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: BHS Ladder [message #438708 is a reply to message #438686] |
Sun, 31 October 2010 17:44 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7428
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars)
ADMINISTRATOR |
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| EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Sun, 31 October 2010 11:58 |
| Crimson wrote on Sun, 31 October 2010 18:09 |
That's pretty much what I am doing. Except that I suggested weighting the servers instead of just banning ones that don't match "pure" Renegade. It's fairly simple logic that certain server settings skew results and make your points less and less reliant on skill.
Settings such as weapons drop don't make much of an impact, while settings like using the broken points system have a huge impact.
A database will have to be maintained with the server settings for each server and the reported settings will be public so that if you are aware of a server lying about a setting, you can report them and we can moderate.
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Or we just send that information along with the results?
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It could be done once all servers are running our patch but right now it's prone to tampering.
I'm the bawss.
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| Re: BHS Ladder [message #438710 is a reply to message #438703] |
Sun, 31 October 2010 17:48 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7428
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars)
ADMINISTRATOR |
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| trooprm02 wrote on Sun, 31 October 2010 15:37 |
| Crimson wrote on Sun, 31 October 2010 11:09 |
It's fairly simple logic that certain server settings skew results
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Yes, but evaluating and comparing advantages/disadvantages for each setting is just unnecessary and would cause too much conflict is what I was saying (not that it couldn't be done).
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It's not unnecessary. It's vital to making the ladder rankings fit in with the evolution of the game.
I'm the bawss.
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| Re: BHS Ladder [message #438714 is a reply to message #438708] |
Mon, 01 November 2010 02:23 |
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EvilWhiteDragon
Messages: 3751
Registered: October 2005
Location: The Netherlands
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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| Crimson wrote on Mon, 01 November 2010 01:44 |
| EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Sun, 31 October 2010 11:58 |
| Crimson wrote on Sun, 31 October 2010 18:09 |
That's pretty much what I am doing. Except that I suggested weighting the servers instead of just banning ones that don't match "pure" Renegade. It's fairly simple logic that certain server settings skew results and make your points less and less reliant on skill.
Settings such as weapons drop don't make much of an impact, while settings like using the broken points system have a huge impact.
A database will have to be maintained with the server settings for each server and the reported settings will be public so that if you are aware of a server lying about a setting, you can report them and we can moderate.
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Or we just send that information along with the results?
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It could be done once all servers are running our patch but right now it's prone to tampering.
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And how long do you suspect it will take to get servers to run TT if they need it to join the ladder  Also, having a separate database is way more prone to (unintentional!) tampering. I mean, if I would change one setting on the server, I might not think of the effects that has on the ladder db.
I think that there are reasons not to do it automatically, but it's certainly not more prone to tampering. Maybe just as prone.
BlackIntel admin/founder/PR dude (not a coder)
Please visit http://www.blackintel.org/
| V, V for Vendetta |
People should not be afraid of their governments.
Governments should be afraid of their people.
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| Re: BHS Ladder [message #438732 is a reply to message #438328] |
Mon, 01 November 2010 12:06 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9727
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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To be fair: if 10 servers are remotely active on Renegade, it'll be just as easy to handle manually.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: BHS Ladder [message #438738 is a reply to message #438737] |
Mon, 01 November 2010 14:12 |
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| trooprm02 wrote on Mon, 01 November 2010 21:02 |
@Carrier, my post was totally ontopic. I started this thread to see if a decision had been made/someone had been chosen to develop the BHS ladder policy, and now that I realize neither of these have really happened, why it would be a bad idea to have just anyone (especially bad public server players, liquid as only an example) develop it/have any input on it at all.
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Heaven forbid that the public have say in how the public ladder works, it's like this isn't a dictatorship or something. At any rate, your posts broke the rules, so cut it out.
Renguard is a wonderful initiative
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| BBC news, quoting... |
Supporters of Proposition 8 will argue California does not discriminate against gays, as the current law allows them to get married - as long as they wed a partner of the opposite sex.
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| halokid wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 08:46 |
| R315r4z0r wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 15:35 |
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the hell is that?
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| Re: BHS Ladder [message #438739 is a reply to message #438737] |
Mon, 01 November 2010 14:39 |
i0ncl0ud9
Messages: 74
Registered: April 2004
Karma: 0
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What does liquid's ability in renegade have to do with defining how a ladder system would work. The 2 are not correlated.
Liquid is not a bad player. I'm not sure why you think he is. Come into marathon and you will see some bad players
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| Re: BHS Ladder [message #438775 is a reply to message #438328] |
Tue, 02 November 2010 04:31 |
ELiT3FLyR
Messages: 119
Registered: April 2008
Karma: 0
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| Quote: |
It's fairly simple logic that certain server settings skew results and make your points less and less reliant on skill.
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yeah just like on pointfix servers where the arty who shot the ref for 5 minuites is completely more deserving to be higher up the scoreboard than the apache shooting and killing tanks and infantry all game.
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| Re: BHS Ladder [message #438779 is a reply to message #438775] |
Tue, 02 November 2010 08:23 |
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EvilWhiteDragon
Messages: 3751
Registered: October 2005
Location: The Netherlands
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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| ELiT3FLyR wrote on Tue, 02 November 2010 12:31 |
| Quote: |
It's fairly simple logic that certain server settings skew results and make your points less and less reliant on skill.
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yeah just like on pointfix servers where the arty who shot the ref for 5 minuites is completely more deserving to be higher up the scoreboard than the apache shooting and killing tanks and infantry all game.
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You don't understand it do you? The pointbug is a bug on which you only get insane amounts of point when the vehicle/inf has green health. As soon as they go in orange health, they give away a lot less points.
Also your example is very wrong. Say that this would be a pointbugged server. GDI was spamming tanks all the time against NOD tanks and the named apache. There was also a GDI APC. The APC would do less damage to tanks than the apache, right? Well if the APC is half clever he'll get more points than the apache.
How?
By only shooting green healthed vehicles. If you play in a point bugged server and are not using a fast fire weapon like APC, apache, buggy or machine gun, you should make sure you're always in the yellow or red with your health. Otherwise you'll get point raped.
Edit:
I just though up an awesome strategy for a pointbugged server. If you got a team of say 6 people, one should get a mammy and bring it down to only health, no armour. 3 people should get an APC. 2 should be available to repair the Mammy if it goes down too much, but it needs to stay in the yellow and as last you'd need an Orca against aerial threats. Trust me, as long as you camp at the entrance of your base, you'll rape them on points. Do however try not to kill any enemy tanks, just keep them in the green health.
BlackIntel admin/founder/PR dude (not a coder)
Please visit http://www.blackintel.org/
| V, V for Vendetta |
People should not be afraid of their governments.
Governments should be afraid of their people.
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[Updated on: Tue, 02 November 2010 08:30] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: BHS Ladder [message #438780 is a reply to message #438779] |
Tue, 02 November 2010 08:40 |
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Starbuzzz
Messages: 1637
Registered: June 2008
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| ELiT3FLyR wrote on Tue, 02 November 2010 11:31 |
| Quote: |
It's fairly simple logic that certain server settings skew results and make your points less and less reliant on skill.
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yeah just like on pointfix servers where the arty who shot the ref for 5 minuites is completely more deserving to be higher up the scoreboard than the apache shooting and killing tanks and infantry all game.
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that was the main reason I really hated pointsfix when it came out cos I fly a lot and average a lot of vehicle and infantry kills in a game on flying maps. But I eventually came to the conclusion that no matter what the apache does, he is still playing a support role and is not directly helping on killing an enemy base (unless he is shooting a building). Also let's admit it, getting so many silly bugged points from shooting green-health vehicle is over-compensation for a flyer...not to mention how unfair it is. Don't you think?
This is really commonsense imo and so I never hated those who are in an arty all game cos they are helping to win by base destruction or points. I never hated even those who are chronic arty "whores" cos they are helping your team no matter how you look at it.
an apache flying around all game killing tanks and squishing havocs and sneaking hotwires is a great asset to the team but it is only a support role and in my eyes will never be as equal to an arty that, say, scores a enemy building kill after laying siege to it. A flyer would have be very self-centered and selfish to think he alone is doing a better job than a sieging arty that is actually trying to kill an enemy building. Isn't that the point of the game? To kill the enemy base?
on an unrelated note, I can personally say that the pointfix made me play more harder. If I am Nod on CityFly or WallsFly and in an apache, the GDI ref is usually my favorite building to kill when during the pointsbug days, I would have never bothered to take the risk of flying/sneaking in at the right moment with a apache to kill the building with tech.
The pointsbug fools pilots into thinking they are doing a really good damn job when in fact they are only getting undeserved points from green-health vehicles apart from killing vehicles and infantry. The pointsfix strips away that notion. If people were honest with themselves, they would admit their selfishness but they won't.
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| Re: BHS Ladder [message #438786 is a reply to message #438328] |
Tue, 02 November 2010 11:53 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9727
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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With the bug, you could save up for an orca, then be killed lots of times but each time have enough money to buy a new orca, which is one of the most expensive vehicles in the game. It just didn't make any sense.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: BHS Ladder [message #438795 is a reply to message #438788] |
Tue, 02 November 2010 13:34 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915
Registered: January 2006
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars)
Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
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i'll start answering your inane questions again about the original renegade points system we want to use for the renegade ladder, simpee, if only you don't dodge the answers for a change, as well as agreeing to stop ignoring the absolutely ENORMOUS problems with the point mod you advocate that i keep bringing up... does that sound fair?
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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