| Re: Question for Christians [message #390545 is a reply to message #390534] |
Sat, 13 June 2009 19:10   |
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AADude7
Messages: 148
Registered: September 2005
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| Altzan wrote on Sat, 13 June 2009 17:01 |
But I saw no reason to believe God doesn't exist, probably you all haven't seen a reason to believe he does.
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No, I'm sure we haven't seen a reason to believe your God exists, and I would appreciate if you would thoroughly explain your reasoning.
| Altzan wrote on Sat, 13 June 2009 17:01 |
I know he exists. And for those mouths opening to say "how?" - No. Nothing I say will affect you, that's plain and obvious.
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Ah, I get your point. You know God exists but you won't share the knowledge of how you know this (or you already know how incredibly stupid they must sound.)
| Altzan wrote on Sat, 13 June 2009 17:01 |
I don't give a damn for the misinterpretations sure to follow this message - "hah, we atheists sure showed him" "he's crazy" "he's giving up" "we win" - because they don't matter. What matters is what happens after we pass on. And those statements will be brought up in Judgement.
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Atheists beliefs are just as "wrong" as a religion's beliefs. By wrong I mean that people don't know how true or false these beliefs actually are - wouldn't it be good just to say that instead of belonging to a group that goes with one side or another?
| Altzan wrote on Sat, 13 June 2009 17:01 |
And if there is no Judgement? No afterlife? ...then I'm good, as are you all. We'll all go to the same place.
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"If there is no afterlife, at least I wouldn't have gone to Hell if there was one."
| Altzan wrote on Sat, 13 June 2009 17:01 |
And if there's a different god in power? ...we'll all go to the same place.
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I wouldn't believe so, since most religions are on the track of "believe in our God or face eternal suffering."
[Updated on: Sat, 13 June 2009 19:11] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Question for Christians [message #390552 is a reply to message #385426] |
Sat, 13 June 2009 21:04 |
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Altzan
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Location: Tennessee
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I'm sorry if you feel oppressed by other religions. I'm not trying to force mine onto anyone, I'm just defending it, mainly for practice and insight.
As for "not sharing my reasoning" - I did, and that didn't go far. If you want a (hopefully) thorough explanation, PM me.
And I have a better right and wrong sense than you think. My opinions about murder, crime, hate, greed, envy, and such don't differ from yours.
And despite the arguements (debates), I would like to to thank Dover for debating politely in the vast majority of his messages (and Spoony somewhat). Others as well, but you two placed the most input.
I cannot imagine how the clockwork of the universe can exist without a clockmaker. ~Voltaire
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| Re: Question for Christians [message #390570 is a reply to message #390552] |
Sun, 14 June 2009 02:02 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915
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| Altzan wrote on Sat, 13 June 2009 23:04 |
I'm sorry if you feel oppressed by other religions.
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I'm not sure what you mean by "other", and you might wanna replace "feel" with "are".
| Altzan wrote on Sat, 13 June 2009 23:04 |
As for "not sharing my reasoning" - I did, and that didn't go far. If you want a (hopefully) thorough explanation, PM me.
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Indeed it didn't go far; my question still hasn't been answered. Why, out of the thousands of gods that are (or were) thought to exist, are you absolutely convinced that one exists (and think someone is a 'hopeless case' for wanting some kind of proof or at least convincing logic) but sneer at the others?
| Altzan wrote on Sat, 13 June 2009 23:04 |
And I have a better right and wrong sense than you think. My opinions about murder, crime, hate, greed, envy, and such don't differ from yours.
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It would be depressing indeed if you couldn't see anything wrong with murder.
"Crime" is very vague; let's remember that many things are against the law even though there aren't even the most feeble moral arguments against them. Laws prohibiting homosexuals from enjoying their private life in several states, for example. The other three are thoughtcrimes, so I suspect your opinions are actually quite different to mine. Still, the last four pale by comparison to the point I've kept repeating and I've been absolutely baffled by your lack of reaction to it:
threatening somebody with punishment for the 'crime' of disagreeing with you
^^
your religion has been doing this for nearly two thousand years. It still does, including - most disgustingly of all - to children. So far the closest you've come to a defence of this evil is: "we might be lying". You think you know right from wrong? I expect you do think that; you also think you haven't been brainwashed; you also think that prayer counts as atonement without any need to bother with apologising to people you hurt or trying to make amends; you also think there are no fossils older than 10,000 years back. I could go on.
| Altzan wrote on Sat, 13 June 2009 23:04 |
And despite the arguements (debates), I would like to to thank Dover for debating politely in the vast majority of his messages (and Spoony somewhat). Others as well, but you two placed the most input.
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There is no need to be polite when criticising religion.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
[Updated on: Sun, 14 June 2009 02:04] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Question for Christians [message #390592 is a reply to message #390570] |
Sun, 14 June 2009 08:27 |
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| Spoony |
Indeed it didn't go far; my question still hasn't been answered. Why, out of the thousands of gods that are (or were) thought to exist, are you absolutely convinced that one exists (and think someone is a 'hopeless case' for wanting some kind of proof or at least convincing logic) but sneer at the others?
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I know you were waiting for him to answer the question, but I'll go ahead and do it.
The reason is very simple. It's the culture of America and the Western world. His parents are Christian, and everything around him supports Christianity. It's no different than choosing a favorite sports team. I live ~30 miles from two universities. My city is essentially split on the fans. One team roots for Michigan State, the other half for Michigan. I, for one, am a Michigan fan. I'm not a fan because I went to the school, nor was my decision influenced by any person I know going to the school. I have no real objective reasons why I am a Michigan fan. My parents are Michigan fans, though. They have been since before I was born. There's absolutely no tangible reasoning as to why I should be a Michigan instead of a Michigan State fan. Religion is the exact same way, and it's how I was a Christian, and I'm sure that's why my brother still is a Christian. It's purely subjective due to nature and/or nurture.
Face it, it's been said several times in this thread already... it's a luck of the draw where you're born and that has a huge impact on what your faith system is. Then to have the audacity to say that your religion is the one, true faith? Had one been born in Sweden instead of America, in all likelihood, you'd probably be an atheist. Were you born in Iran, you'd most likely be a Muslim. Yes, people can switch from "wrong" religions to the "right" religion. Though, I'm willing to bet the percentage of Christians changing faiths is probably not all that different from other faiths leaving theirs. I'll concede that a majority of people switching from other faiths are probably switching to Christianity, but I'll also suggest (with no tangible evidence, as I'm too lazy) that it has a lot to do with exposure to Christianity.
Again, I'll use my sports team analogy. Take several universities across America that are about the same proficiency in sports. Then you poll people who were born and raised in that area to see what sports team they align with. Removing the people who know students/alumni of the university, you'll still have a high percentage of people rooting for the local university. Again, not because their team may be better than another, but because it's the environment they're brought up in, and I bet you that their parents are fans, as well.
There is always going to be exceptions. No model is going to be 100% accurate, but it definitely does give insight as to why people are religious.
Libertarian Party | The King's Throne | The Soda Shop
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| Re: Question for Christians [message #390595 is a reply to message #385426] |
Sun, 14 June 2009 10:00 |
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nikki6ixx
Messages: 2545
Registered: August 2007
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General (2 Stars) |
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I'd go to church if we were able to do the 'Wave' in the pews, and the organ played some jazzier ditties.
Renegade:
| Aircraftkiller wrote on Fri, 10 January 2014 16:56 |
The only game where everyone competes to be an e-janitor.
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| Re: Question for Christians [message #390678 is a reply to message #390664] |
Mon, 15 June 2009 07:23 |
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Spoony
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| AADude7 wrote on Mon, 15 June 2009 02:14 |
I guess their motto is "get 'em while they're young."
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it's worked for religion for thousands of years, no point letting morality interfere now.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: Question for Christians [message #390694 is a reply to message #390651] |
Mon, 15 June 2009 09:35 |
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nikki6ixx
Messages: 2545
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Dear God, that old chick in the red shirt looks like she ate the Baby Jesus...
Renegade:
| Aircraftkiller wrote on Fri, 10 January 2014 16:56 |
The only game where everyone competes to be an e-janitor.
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| Re: Question for Christians [message #390960 is a reply to message #390874] |
Wed, 17 June 2009 11:50 |
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Altzan
Messages: 1586
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Location: Tennessee
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| R315r4z0r wrote on Tue, 16 June 2009 18:49 |
I haven't entered this thread in a while, but I have a song I want to share.
It's from Green Day's latest album 21st Century Breakdown. The song is called 'East Jesus Nowhere' and I just thought it fit this thread so freaking well, it was scary. It may even answer the original proposed question by Cheesesoda if you listen to the lyrics carefully.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKU9MU44tiU
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Here, to simplify:
Raise your hands now to testify
Your confession will be crucified
You're a sacrificial suicide
Like a dog that's been sodomized
Stand up! - All the white boys
Sit down! - All the black girls
You're the soldiers of the new world
Put your faith in a miracle
And it's non-denominational
Join the choir we will be singing
In the church of wishful thinking
A fire burns today
Of blasphemy and genocide
The sirens of decay
Will infiltrate the faith fanatics
Oh bless me lord for I have sinned
It's been a lifetime since I last confessed
I threw my crutches in "The river
Of a shadow of doubt"
And I'll be dressed in my Sunday best
Say a prayer for the family
Drop a coin for humanity
Ain't this uniform so flattering?
I never asked you a God damned thing
A fire burns today
Of blasphemy and genocide
The sirens of decay
Will infiltrate the faith fanatics
Don't test me
Second guess me
Protest me
You will disappear
I want to know who's allowed to breed
All the dogs who never learned to read
Missionary politicians
And the cops of a new religion
A fire burns today
Of blasphemy and genocide
The sirens of decay
Will infiltrate the inside
I cannot imagine how the clockwork of the universe can exist without a clockmaker. ~Voltaire
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| Re: Question for Christians [message #390979 is a reply to message #385426] |
Wed, 17 June 2009 13:03 |
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nikki6ixx
Messages: 2545
Registered: August 2007
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General (2 Stars) |
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Dancing with danger right until dawn
The sin that you buy and you sell
Mom and daddy said "the life that you've led,
You'll party your way straight to Hell"
On Your knees,
You shall be on your knees
Cause I want you on your knees
You shall be on your knees
And I need you on your knees
You shall be on your knees
Cause I want you on your knees
You shall be on your knees
Playing with fire, lust in you burns
Reflecting the flames in your eyes
Sex and pain insane, they're really the same
Misused and confused, bound and tied
On Your knees,
You shall be on your knees
Cause I want you on your knees
You shall be on your knees
And I need you on your knees
You shall be on your knees
Cause I want you on your knees
You shall be on your knees
On your knees that's where you all shall be
Well I bid you come taste your first deadly sin
Riding the wild wind and the door to submission
Will open and you shall fall in
On Your knees,
You shall be on your knees
Cause I want you on your knees
You shall be on your knees
And I need you on your knees
You shall be on your knees
Cause I want you on your knees
You shall be on your knees
On your knees
On your knees
On your knees
On your knees
Renegade:
| Aircraftkiller wrote on Fri, 10 January 2014 16:56 |
The only game where everyone competes to be an e-janitor.
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| Re: Question for Christians [message #390998 is a reply to message #385426] |
Wed, 17 June 2009 15:20 |
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Sure enough can't figure out
Why all that's good is sin
Why people choose to grovel at
The feet of some dreamed up king
Too scared to fight their own way
So easy to be sheep
Alive but dead inside
Holier than thou
Condemning all around them
They're the chosen ones
Now hypocrisy's king
Defiling everything
And at judgement's hour crumble, yeah
Crumble you mountain of power
Still signs of hope are many
Reason covers ground
Two thousand years of twisted lies
Soon just a burial mound
Too scared to fight their own way
So easy to be sheep
Alive but dead inside
Holier than thou
Condemning all around them
They're the chosen ones
Now hypocrisy's king
Defiling everything
And at judgement's hour crumble, yeah
Crumble you mountain of power
Now hypocrisy's king
Defiling everything
And at judgement's hour crumble, yeah
You mountain of power
Now hypocrisy's king
Defiling everything
And at judgement's hour crumble, yeah
You mountain of power
You mountain of power
Yeah
Mountain of power
Yeah, you mountain of...
Libertarian Party | The King's Throne | The Soda Shop
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| Re: Question for Christians [message #391059 is a reply to message #385426] |
Thu, 18 June 2009 05:15 |
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nikki6ixx
Messages: 2545
Registered: August 2007
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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Could God microwave a burrito so hot that even he himself could not eat it?
Renegade:
| Aircraftkiller wrote on Fri, 10 January 2014 16:56 |
The only game where everyone competes to be an e-janitor.
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| Re: Question for Christians [message #391830 is a reply to message #391059] |
Mon, 22 June 2009 13:14 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915
Registered: January 2006
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Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
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east jesus nowhere, like most of green day's recent stuff, has more rhetorical platitude than substance (it's not as bad as American Idiot though). i liked them a lot better when they just wrote songs about masturbation.
i do think i'll probably write a song for my new band on the subject of religion at some stage, maybe not anytime soon though
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: Question for Christians [message #391920 is a reply to message #391839] |
Tue, 23 June 2009 05:39 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915
Registered: January 2006
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Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
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each to their own. imo...
dookie+insomniac+nimrod = ftw
warning = going downhill here
american idiot = terrible
21st = bit better
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: Question for Christians [message #391922 is a reply to message #391920] |
Tue, 23 June 2009 05:53 |
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Herr Surth
Messages: 1684
Registered: July 2007
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| Spoony wrote on Tue, 23 June 2009 13:39 |
each to their own. imo...
dookie+insomniac+nimrod = ftw
warning = going downhill here
american idiot = terrible
21st = bit better
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sure, each to their own. i dont mind anybodys music ;P
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) 2 Votes
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