Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » Hud with building bars
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| Re: Hud with building bars [message #368613 is a reply to message #368022] |
Fri, 23 January 2009 18:03   |
Genesis2001
Messages: 1397
Registered: August 2006
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General (1 Star) |
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Because I can't come up with my own argument. I piggyback off the defense side of the HUD 
I just don't consider it a cheat when you actually have access to all that information anyway....(woo, probably beating a dead horse, but meh - been said over and over)
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| Re: Hud with building bars [message #368628 is a reply to message #368571] |
Sat, 24 January 2009 01:40 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9727
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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| pvtschlag wrote on Fri, 23 January 2009 21:05 |
Considering something a cheat and saying something can be seen as a cheat aren't the same. How do you decide what cheats to allow?
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I suppose that's up to every server owner. Why do some server owners allow bright skins and others don't? I suppose tracability plays a big part. It's hard to catch someone using bright skins, so it's easier to allow it. It's hard to check if people use TS, voip over MSN, are on the telephone  so it's allowed. It's hard to check hud's, so some people allow it.
It doesn't make it less a cheat.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
[Updated on: Sat, 24 January 2009 01:41] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Hud with building bars [message #368684 is a reply to message #368679] |
Sat, 24 January 2009 09:10 |
pawky
Messages: 115
Registered: December 2008
Karma: 0
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| BlueThen wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 09:51 |
Jesus Christ, guys. It's a fucking HUD. How can you honestly make such a big deal over it? If anything, this hud is the LEAST of our problems, when it comes to cheaters.
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I actually finally agree with Gozy on the ridiculous nature of these HUDS and why they should be banned. Of course it does not really compare against the cheaters using the solid cheats like aim, auto-aim, wall-hack...
What this HUD does is simply take away a strategic aspect of the game. In many ways, this destroys the game for the ENTIRE opposing team in a different way compared to one lone cheater sniping in the tunnels with aimbot.
Just imagine if a tech is in base all the time with such an advantage HUD...he will have mine counter, building health meter...the base is virtually secure under a watchful eye that is aided by this HUD. Serious problem here and in no way the "least of our problems."
[Updated on: Sat, 24 January 2009 09:11] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Hud with building bars [message #368686 is a reply to message #368684] |
Sat, 24 January 2009 09:14 |
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BlueThen
Messages: 2402
Registered: February 2006
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General (2 Stars) |
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| TANKY wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 10:10 |
| BlueThen wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 09:51 |
Jesus Christ, guys. It's a fucking HUD. How can you honestly make such a big deal over it? If anything, this hud is the LEAST of our problems, when it comes to cheaters.
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I actually finally agree with Gozy on the ridiculous nature of these HUDS and why they should be banned. Of course it does not really compare against the cheaters using the solid cheats like aim, auto-aim, wall-hack...
What this HUD does is simply take away a strategic aspect of the game. In many ways, this destroys the game for the ENTIRE opposing team in a different way compared to one lone cheater sniping in the tunnels with aimbot.
Just imagine if a tech is in base all the time with such an advantage HUD...he will have mine counter, building health meter...the base is virtually secure under a watchful eye that is aided by this HUD. Serious problem here and in no way the "least of our problems."
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You guys are putting this WAY out of proportion... it's just a hud! The advantage it gives is so insignificant, we shouldn't really be caring now. But a good deal of you are making a big deal out of it, as if it ruins the ENTIRE game.
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| Re: Hud with building bars [message #368709 is a reply to message #368684] |
Sat, 24 January 2009 10:24 |
Genesis2001
Messages: 1397
Registered: August 2006
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| TANKY wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 09:10 |
| BlueThen wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 09:51 |
Jesus Christ, guys. It's a fucking HUD. How can you honestly make such a big deal over it? If anything, this hud is the LEAST of our problems, when it comes to cheaters.
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I actually finally agree with Gozy on the ridiculous nature of these HUDS and why they should be banned. Of course it does not really compare against the cheaters using the solid cheats like aim, auto-aim, wall-hack...
What this HUD does is simply take away a strategic aspect of the game. In many ways, this destroys the game for the ENTIRE opposing team in a different way compared to one lone cheater sniping in the tunnels with aimbot.
Just imagine if a tech is in base all the time with such an advantage HUD...he will have mine counter, building health meter...the base is virtually secure under a watchful eye that is aided by this HUD. Serious problem here and in no way the "least of our problems."
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The mine counter you speak of only shows the TEAM mine count. 
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| Re: Hud with building bars [message #368714 is a reply to message #368709] |
Sat, 24 January 2009 10:40 |
pawky
Messages: 115
Registered: December 2008
Karma: 0
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| Zack wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 11:24 |
The mine counter you speak of only shows the TEAM mine count.
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Won't it much easier to know then if someone is disarming your mines...you can see your mine count decrease.
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| Re: Hud with building bars [message #368716 is a reply to message #368714] |
Sat, 24 January 2009 10:45 |
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GEORGE ZIMMER
Messages: 2605
Registered: March 2006
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General (2 Stars) |
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| TANKY wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 12:40 |
| Zack wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 11:24 |
The mine counter you speak of only shows the TEAM mine count.
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Won't it much easier to know then if someone is disarming your mines...you can see your mine count decrease.
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Exactly. Even if everyone had the HUD's, it would make it way easier to detect sneak attacks and the like... which makes games go at a standstill. Which is boring.
Toggle Spoiler| Scrin wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 13:22 |
| cAmpa wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 12:45 |
Scrin, stop pming people to get the building bars.
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FUCK YOU AND THIS SHIT GAME WITH YOUR SCRIPTS!!! I HAVE ASKING YOU AND ANOTHER NOOBS HERE ABOUT HELP WITH THAT BUILDING ICONS FEATURES FOR YEARS, BUT YOU KEEP IGNORING ME AND KEEP WRITE SHIT, SO BURN YOU AND YOUR ASSLICKERS FRIENDS, THIS TIME I'M NOT COME BACK!!!!!!!!!   
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| Re: Hud with building bars [message #368762 is a reply to message #368022] |
Sat, 24 January 2009 12:51 |
pvtschlag
Messages: 122
Registered: April 2004
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As I mentioned before I don't want this to be released, but it does appear that my point was finally accepted that the logic being used to declare it a cheat was flawed. I can accept that server owners can call it a cheat if they want. That is their right, but that is also their opinion. So this HUD modification is only a cheat on servers where the owner declares it a cheat. Very similar to things like clear scope. Check with the owner of your server and see if it is allowed, if they say no then plan on being banned if caught with it.
-Lee
[Updated on: Sat, 24 January 2009 13:13] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Hud with building bars [message #368763 is a reply to message #368122] |
Sat, 24 January 2009 13:06 |
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slosha
Messages: 1540
Registered: September 2008
Location: North Dakota FTW
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General (1 Star) |
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| pe21789 wrote on Tue, 20 January 2009 15:15 |
You should stop making Weapon replacments, if u dont like Renegade how it is then G T F O! ^^
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then why are you in the mod forum
The road I cruise is a bitch now, baby.
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| Re: Hud with building bars [message #368767 is a reply to message #368762] |
Sat, 24 January 2009 13:20 |
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slosha
Messages: 1540
Registered: September 2008
Location: North Dakota FTW
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| pvtschlag wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 13:51 |
As I mentioned before I don't want this to be released, but it does appear that my point was finally accepted that the logic being used to declare it a cheat was flawed. I can accept that server owners can call it a cheat if they want. That is their right, but that is also their opinion. So this HUD modification is only a cheat on servers where the owner declares it a cheat. Very similar to things like clear scope. Check with the owner of your server and see if it is allowed, if they say no then plan on being banned if caught with it.
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there really is no way to tell what kind of skins/huds you have unless you post a screenshot..
The road I cruise is a bitch now, baby.
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| Re: Hud with building bars [message #368778 is a reply to message #368767] |
Sat, 24 January 2009 14:08 |
pvtschlag
Messages: 122
Registered: April 2004
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| 2GLOCK9S wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 15:20 |
there really is no way to tell what kind of skins/huds you have unless you post a screenshot..
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That would be up to the developer of it. If I were making it I would include a way for servers to detect it being used so that it could be disallowed.
-Lee
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| Re: Hud with building bars [message #368779 is a reply to message #368778] |
Sat, 24 January 2009 14:15 |
Genesis2001
Messages: 1397
Registered: August 2006
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General (1 Star) |
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| pvtschlag wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 14:08 |
| 2GLOCK9S wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 15:20 |
there really is no way to tell what kind of skins/huds you have unless you post a screenshot..
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That would be up to the developer of it. If I were making it I would include a way for servers to detect it being used so that it could be disallowed.
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Just wait for TT - according to gozzy they're doing a PB-like system for screenshots
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| Re: Hud with building bars [message #368835 is a reply to message #368804] |
Sun, 25 January 2009 03:51 |
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EvilWhiteDragon
Messages: 3751
Registered: October 2005
Location: The Netherlands
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General (3 Stars) |
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| R315r4z0r wrote on Sun, 25 January 2009 00:27 |
| pe21789 wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 05:40 |
I think the building bars arent a cheat. Its "only" a advantage.
Because Renegade have the same but u have to press K before u can see the building bars.
And a cheat is something that isnt included in the original Game.
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No it isn't. Even though we are on the same side of the argument here, it is not in any way an advantage. You aren't gaining anything that other players don't have.
And, to make another point, building bars should be a LEGAL upgrade allowed by all servers so everyone has the option to LEGALLY upgrade to balance out with all the people who went and spent money on those keyboards that do the exact same thing we are talking about.
IDEA!:
TT should make a default HUD themed building bar addon to the HUD and release it in a patch.
Side note: I agree with BlueThen. Even if we all considered this to categorize as a cheat, you aren't upsetting the balance of the gameplay or the final result of the battle, and as such, should not even be bothered with. More attention should be made towards ACTUAL cheats.
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I don't know how long you've played this game, or how good you're at it, but I don't think you never had a situation where (in for ex city) there where arts pounding your PP, and you went over there, together with another engi (there where 3 arts, so you need more then one engi).
At some point, one art gets smart and will attack the refinery. You won't get the building is under attack message, and if you press K you can't repair. With this HUD, you don't need to, and you'll directly see that the building is under attack, and can take action.
While otherwise you would've had to press K every 5 to 10 seconds. That can really cost you the building. (you need 2 full techs to cover from 3 arts afaik).
Another point, if you really think it is not an advantage, then why do you want this so badly? I mean, the "normal" advanced HUD is already released. And don't try to get smart with "because you like the looks". There is nothing pretty about 6, 8 or 10 static pictures of buildings next to your renscreen. If you do think that they're pretty, then you can print them on paper and put it next to your monitor (then you're not even waisting screenspace).
This mod isn't just there to be pretty, and if you really like it and still believe it is not an advantage, then why not create a couple of static pictures there?
This together with the minecount you can overlook the entire base while not even in base. First you mine everything properly, and then you can go anything else, just as long as you can back to the base quicky, when you seen the mines go down. This means that your team basically has a player more then the other team. Sounds pretty advantageous don't you think?
That is the mayor argument against this. It will harm gameplay if everyone has it. And if not everyone has it, then it would be unfair for the ones that don't have it.
Another point in this is, if you allow the game to be made easier (yes this will really make it easier, if you use it right), then where does it end? I mean, if you allow buildingbars then you're not far away from allowing brightskins. They only make the enemy easier to see, much like buildingbars only makes the base easier to oversee. If you allow brightskins, then you might also allow radarhack. As you would be able to see him anyway, when he got around that corner. If you allow radar hack, then you might as well allow spectate. I mean, you know he was around the corner, so why not just go through the wall to kill him eh? It's just easier and faster.... If we can go through a wall it would also be easier if we could look through it, so we don't get surprised when we go through. Oh and now we're here, let's also allow aimbot. I mean, you didn't have to be careful anymore, because you knew he was around the corner, kwen exactly where he was, you just had to align and press the trigger. You know what? Let's also allow triggerbot, then you only have to press shift to get a kill.
Oh wait, then you've taken away about all aspects of the game.... That's my point, This will take certain tactics/strategies of the game. That'd be a pity, would it not?
For the TS being a cheat argument:
I have used TS often enough in public games, but there's one mayor problem with it. There is at best perhaps half of your team on TS. For proper teamplay, you'll still need to type every thing out. Simply because otherwise you're handicapping your own team. Half of the team can't do teamwork then. Basically you have a disadvantage of having about half of your players less then the other team. Simply because they will use F3 chat, and will hopefully work as a team, with ALL players. And we all know that 1/2 VS 1/4 isn't a match.....
Edit: shit, I bet that at least half of the pro-buildingbars is not going to read my post because they think it's too long. Does rove something then....
BlackIntel admin/founder/PR dude (not a coder)
Please visit http://www.blackintel.org/
| V, V for Vendetta |
People should not be afraid of their governments.
Governments should be afraid of their people.
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[Updated on: Sun, 25 January 2009 03:52] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Hud with building bars [message #368842 is a reply to message #368022] |
Sun, 25 January 2009 04:50 |
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reborn
Messages: 3231
Registered: September 2004
Location: uk - london
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I pretty much agree with everything EWD just said. He's right on the money. Plus, a release would mean even worse cheats would get made and released. I'm not a pro-coder at all, far from it. But having looked into this, it's quite obvious what is possible, and it's not nice. There would end up being some little ass turd rene coder who wants a name for themselves make, and release a horrid cheat.
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