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| Re: Hud with building bars [message #368298 is a reply to message #368023] |
Wed, 21 January 2009 16:04   |
pvtschlag
Messages: 122
Registered: April 2004
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| Goztow wrote on Tue, 20 January 2009 05:50 |
It will hopefully not be released because it's an obvious cheat.
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Considering that when you type in Renegade you can't control your character at all would make using Ventrilo/TeamSpeak provide a much greater advantage to players then this HUD modification.
No I don't want to see this released, as I like to be sneaky and this makes that harder. I just believe the logic being used to declare this a cheat is flawed. Unless of course you also consider VoIP software a cheat.
-Lee
[Updated on: Wed, 21 January 2009 22:45] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Hud with building bars [message #368301 is a reply to message #368298] |
Wed, 21 January 2009 17:06 |
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reborn
Messages: 3231
Registered: September 2004
Location: uk - london
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| pvtschlag wrote on Wed, 21 January 2009 18:04 |
Considering that when you type in Renegade you can't control your character at all would make using Ventrilo/TeamSpeak provide a much greater advantage to players then this HUD modification.
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That's actually a really good point. Interesting idea.
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| Re: Hud with building bars [message #368302 is a reply to message #368022] |
Wed, 21 January 2009 17:22 |
dr3w2
Messages: 485
Registered: September 2006
Location: Ottawa,Canada
Karma: 0
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Commander |
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It's tempting to just release majority of the class code just to get some reactions from people 
n00bstories Server Administrator
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| Re: Hud with building bars [message #368320 is a reply to message #368301] |
Wed, 21 January 2009 22:56 |
Genesis2001
Messages: 1397
Registered: August 2006
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| RMCool13 wrote on Wed, 21 January 2009 18:22 |
| andr3w282 wrote on Wed, 21 January 2009 18:22 |
It's tempting to just release majority of the class code just to get some reactions from people
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Do it, Stir some shit up 
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I agree! 
| reborn wrote on Wed, 21 January 2009 17:06 |
| pvtschlag wrote on Wed, 21 January 2009 18:04 |
Considering that when you type in Renegade you can't control your character at all would make using Ventrilo/TeamSpeak provide a much greater advantage to players then this HUD modification.
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That's actually a really good point. Interesting idea.
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Seconded, lol. Very good point. I'd like to see you ban people from using VoIP software the same way you would for a custom HUD and/or cheats. <.<
EDIT: a lols joke about RenGuard. 
RenGuard has detected 'teamspeak.exe' running in the background. Please close this process and continue starting RenGuard normally [Updated on: Wed, 21 January 2009 23:01] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Hud with building bars [message #368336 is a reply to message #368022] |
Thu, 22 January 2009 03:41 |
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reborn
Messages: 3231
Registered: September 2004
Location: uk - london
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I never thought about it with regards to the teamspeak comparison before. However, it still shouldn't be released because it could be made even more exploitive...
Imagine hacking teamspeak so you could hear all peoples chat no matter what channel they was in. A similar principle could be applied if something like this was released.
Which is annoying because I would of like to at least considered it an option for cnc_reborn. But I don't want that mod to be the reason why a bunch more cheats where spawned.
The only way I would be happy to see it released is if it was closed source, and you had to press a button for it to pop up, and even then it had a black screen behind it to stop you seeing what was happening in game. But that isn't going to happen.
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| Re: Hud with building bars [message #368340 is a reply to message #368022] |
Thu, 22 January 2009 04:58 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9727
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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It's not because one cheat is freely available that you should release other cheats.
Of course teamspeak gives an advantage over people that don't use it. However, in public games it's of way less matter because you won't ever have more than a very small percentage of the players on TS. So you can yell "incoming flame tank" and only 1 % of your team will hear it, so you'll need to type it out anyway.
If you had one team with TS vs one team without TS, then there wouldn't even be a fair match possible, IMO.
So I agree that using voip is also an unfair advantage but I don't agree that because you allow it that you need to allow other things as well.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: Hud with building bars [message #368343 is a reply to message #368336] |
Thu, 22 January 2009 06:45 |
dr3w2
Messages: 485
Registered: September 2006
Location: Ottawa,Canada
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| reborn wrote on Thu, 22 January 2009 04:41 |
I never thought about it with regards to the teamspeak comparison before. However, it still shouldn't be released because it could be made even more exploitive...
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Thats exactly the case. If i were to release my code it would take extremely minimal effort to modify it to display other things rather then buildings and health ( vehicles and/or units anyone ? )... This is what is delaying me from doing anything with it. With that technically I can't release the shaders.dll without the source due to the agreement. So the whole idea of it being released is at a halt 
n00bstories Server Administrator
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| Re: Hud with building bars [message #368392 is a reply to message #368340] |
Thu, 22 January 2009 11:28 |
pvtschlag
Messages: 122
Registered: April 2004
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| Goztow wrote on Thu, 22 January 2009 06:58 |
So I agree that using voip is also an unfair advantage but I don't agree that because you allow it that you need to allow other things as well.
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Then what determines what to allow and what to call a cheat? I would think a cheat would be determined by how great the advantage is. Since this HUD mod gives less of an advantage then players using VoIP software, then it is only logical that this HUD modification not be considered a cheat either.
-Lee
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| Re: Hud with building bars [message #368396 is a reply to message #368392] |
Thu, 22 January 2009 11:54 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9727
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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| pvtschlag wrote on Thu, 22 January 2009 19:28 |
| Goztow wrote on Thu, 22 January 2009 06:58 |
So I agree that using voip is also an unfair advantage but I don't agree that because you allow it that you need to allow other things as well.
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Then what determines what to allow and what to call a cheat? I would think a cheat would be determined by how great the advantage is. Since this HUD mod gives less of an advantage then players using VoIP software, then it is only logical that this HUD modification not be considered a cheat either.
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Consider the smallest of cheats: radar hack. It's nothing but a few dots in another color on the HUD. Still, people dislike it even more than final renegade, because it's so hard to catch...
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: Hud with building bars [message #368397 is a reply to message #368336] |
Thu, 22 January 2009 11:55 |
Genesis2001
Messages: 1397
Registered: August 2006
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| reborn wrote on Thu, 22 January 2009 03:41 |
The only way I would be happy to see it released is if it was closed source, and you had to press a button for it to pop up, and even then it had a black screen behind it to stop you seeing what was happening in game. But that isn't going to happen.
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Then there would no point in having it on the HUD if you're going to black out the screen. :/ it'd be an uglier version of the existing "K"-key popup. :/
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| Re: Hud with building bars [message #368402 is a reply to message #368340] |
Thu, 22 January 2009 12:12 |
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R315r4z0r
Messages: 3836
Registered: March 2005
Location: New York
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| Goztow wrote on Thu, 22 January 2009 06:58 |
It's not because one cheat is freely available that you should release other cheats.
Of course teamspeak gives an advantage over people that don't use it. However, in public games it's of way less matter because you won't ever have more than a very small percentage of the players on TS. So you can yell "incoming flame tank" and only 1 % of your team will hear it, so you'll need to type it out anyway.
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You can say the same thing about the HUD. And to even more of an extreme extent. Not everyone will be running the HUD. And given the fact that you gain no advantage when using it, to players not running the HUD, they will have absolutely no idea that they are apparently being "cheated." Not in obvious means and not in statistical means (Scores, K/D, or a team's victory are all things that this HUD cannot possibly effect). So if you don't gain any advantage by using it, why is it a cheat? Why isn't VoIP a cheat?
Using TeamSpeak should be considered a cheat. I don't mind other people using it against me, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be considered a cheat. And as a cheat, it is exponentially worse than simply having building health bars on your HUD.
Why? Because it allows you to cut out your vulnerability while chatting when you use TeamSpeak. However, you gain no advantage by glaring at a building health bar on the side of the screen. You still have the same amount of vulnerability glaring at the side of the screen as when you press the K button for a half a second.
Not to mention that you can check building's health also by pressing a button on your keyboard where as with VoIP, only people that have it can use it. Meaning people running teamspeak are using a 3rd party program that gives them the ability to do something no one else can.
You don't gain an notable advantage with the HUD, but you gain a excessive advantage with VoIP. However, you want to allow the obvious cheat but ban artistic expression?
| Goztow wrote on Thu, 22 January 2009 13:54 |
Consider the smallest of cheats: radar hack. It's nothing but a few dots in another color on the HUD. Still, people dislike it even more than final renegade, because it's so hard to catch...
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But turning the radar on when it is set to not be on is a cheat. Regardless of how big the difference is in the HUD, it is a serious cheat. But the difference is, you obviously gain an advantage over other people and that can, in turn, affect your statistics (such as score and K/D ratio), when using this cheat. Using this HUD gives you absolutely no advantage at all.
| reborn wrote on Thu, 22 January 2009 13:59 |
Proving the point that people want it because it is an advantage.
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All it proves is that people don't want their game made ugly...
[Updated on: Thu, 22 January 2009 12:18] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Hud with building bars [message #368418 is a reply to message #368402] |
Thu, 22 January 2009 14:28 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9727
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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I think you didn't understand that I actually do claim that TS2 can be seen as a cheat.
However, it's an advantage in teamwork only, whereas the building health bars give an individual advantage. So there's the real difference: you get an advantage over the rest of the players, whereas TS gives your team an advantage over the other team.
However, we'll never agree on this. Because you said:
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Using this HUD gives you absolutely no advantage at all.
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because you claim that having a glance at the side of your screen is as much handicapping as pressing the 'k' button every 4 seconds. It's your right to think that, I simply cannot agree with that...
About ugliness: some people make their skins bright pink or green as advantage, which proofs those couldn't care less for ugliness, really..
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: Hud with building bars [message #368439 is a reply to message #368437] |
Thu, 22 January 2009 18:15 |
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u6795
Messages: 1261
Registered: March 2006
Location: Maryland
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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You do realize that with Scripts 3 or beyond (I dunno the number specifically) you can do that ingame normally?
yeah
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| Re: Hud with building bars [message #368449 is a reply to message #368418] |
Thu, 22 January 2009 20:02 |
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R315r4z0r
Messages: 3836
Registered: March 2005
Location: New York
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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| Goztow wrote on Thu, 22 January 2009 16:28 |
However, it's an advantage in teamwork only...
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Not true. Though that is an advantage I had not even thought that VoIP gave you, it's a minor one. The major one is that it cuts your chatting vulnerability out of the game. With VoIP you can give commands to your team mates or just chat it up while toe-to-toe with an enemy sniper rifle in your face, whereas if you don't have VoIP, you have to wait until it's safe to chat or else you will be standing still, vulnerable, while you type what you want to say. Not only that, but it also eliminates the problem with incomprehensible text riddled with spelling errors and typos. It's also much quicker to say what you want rather than stopping to type what you want. Those are big, game breaking advantages that lead you and your team on the road to an unfair victory.
And for that matter, what do you mean an advantage in teamwork only? This is a team based game. If you alone are running a cheat, your entire team gains the benefits because your score and K/D is added into the total team's score and K/D.
| Goztow wrote on Thu, 22 January 2009 16:28 |
...whereas the building health bars give an individual advantage. So there's the real difference: you get an advantage over the rest of the players, whereas TS gives your team an advantage over the other team.
However, we'll never agree on this. Because you said:
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Using this HUD gives you absolutely no advantage at all.
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because you claim that having a glance at the side of your screen is as much handicapping as pressing the 'k' button every 4 seconds. It's your right to think that, I simply cannot agree with that...
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You missunderstand my point. I never said I thought that pressing K was a handicap nor did I ever say glancing over the screen was/wasn't easier/harder. All I said is that you gain no advantage.
Thus meaning: Pressing K in battle leaves you with no negative drawbacks unless you are stupid and hold the button down for 5 seconds with a mammoth tank 2 meters in front of you.
Glancing to check the side of the screen and pressing K to check the buildings might be of two different difficulties, but the end result is exactly the same and you gain no advantage either way.
What difference does it make pressing a button to check the buildings or looking at the side of the screen to check the buildings? The only difference is the way you do it, you still get the same information in the same amount of time with the same amount of risk. Therefore it provides no advantage one way or the other.
| Goztow wrote on Thu, 22 January 2009 16:28 |
About ugliness: some people make their skins bright pink or green as advantage, which proofs those couldn't care less for ugliness, really..
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To be honest, this is all up to personal opinion. Some people might like the look of said skins. Obviously, you don't. I don't either, but there are people out there that may, so you don't have the right to force an opinion on them. But in any case, you can't use that as a way to prove something entirely unrelated.
I like this HUD for one reason: It looks nice and has a nice constant design. That's the only reason I keep it, despite it's flaws (like about how hard it is to realize how fast you reach near-death). Despite that obvious disadvantage, I keep the HUD for the single reason because I like the way it looks. Also, giving myself a disadvantage makes the game more fun for me.
| u6795 wrote on Thu, 22 January 2009 20:15 |
You do realize that with Scripts 3 or beyond (I dunno the number specifically) you can do that ingame normally?
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This is true, however in his video you can clearly see his reticle is still visible. With the HUD0/1 command, it removes everything from the screen, including scores, text, and your reticle.
[Updated on: Thu, 22 January 2009 20:07] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Hud with building bars [message #368450 is a reply to message #368449] |
Thu, 22 January 2009 20:06 |
dr3w2
Messages: 485
Registered: September 2006
Location: Ottawa,Canada
Karma: 0
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| R315r4z0r wrote on Thu, 22 January 2009 21:02 |
| u6795 wrote on Thu, 22 January 2009 20:15 |
You do realize that with Scripts 3 or beyond (I dunno the number specifically) you can do that ingame normally?
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This is true, however in his video you can clearly see his reticle is still visible. With the HUD0/1 command, it removes everything from the screen, including scores, text, and your reticle.
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Exactly. Not to mention the building health bars are on a seperate toggle
n00bstories Server Administrator
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| Re: Hud with building bars [message #368474 is a reply to message #368421] |
Fri, 23 January 2009 00:35 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9727
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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| pvtschlag wrote on Thu, 22 January 2009 22:42 |
So I can make a cheat that simply helps teamwork and then it wont be considered a cheat? I'll get right on that...
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| "Goztow" |
I think you didn't understand that I actually do claim that TS2 can be seen as a cheat.
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You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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