| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #348735 is a reply to message #346858] |
Sat, 30 August 2008 15:01   |
Homey
Messages: 1084
Registered: February 2003
Location: Canada
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General (1 Star) |
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Sorry but if pointsfix is such a huge issue, terminals are just as important as points. Fix it completely or don't pick and choose.
Homey
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #348761 is a reply to message #348735] |
Sat, 30 August 2008 23:41 |
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Spoony
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General (3 Stars)
Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
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could you clarify that? are you still talking about the ladder?
for the pointsfix, there are two very good reasons why pointsbugged servers shouldn't be counted on the TT ladder
1. pointsbug misbalances the game (in terms of the wrong team winning)
2. ladder is directly based on points, and pointsbug means people can get points for absolutely no reason
when it comes to the PT fix... number 1 is probably not true, and number 2 is completely not true.
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Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #348830 is a reply to message #348761] |
Sun, 31 August 2008 14:50 |
Homey
Messages: 1084
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General (1 Star) |
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| Spoony wrote on Sun, 31 August 2008 02:41 |
could you clarify that? are you still talking about the ladder?
for the pointsfix, there are two very good reasons why pointsbugged servers shouldn't be counted on the TT ladder
1. pointsbug misbalances the game (in terms of the wrong team winning)
2. ladder is directly based on points, and pointsbug means people can get points for absolutely no reason
when it comes to the PT fix... number 1 is probably not true, and number 2 is completely not true.
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pts misbalance the game in favour of GDI most of the time. Frankly the fact that people in TT are so pro pointsfix and aren't against fixing pts is quite odd. I thought every bug was supposed to be fixed? Being able to refill and change units behind the bar is a huge advantage for GDI. Other than the back of the barracks the playing field is pretty even for being able to use pts outside.
If non-pointsfix servers aren't counted on the ladder, neither should non-ptfix servers too. Granted it doesn't affect gameplay or outcomes as much, but it still has an impact.
Homey
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #348840 is a reply to message #348763] |
Sun, 31 August 2008 16:02 |
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TruYuri
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Registered: June 2008
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| liquidv2 wrote on Sun, 31 August 2008 02:32 |
in my experiences sbh seem overpowered but also overused
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Cool. TT already said they aren't changing the balance in regard to damage done/unit health/etc, so that doesn't matter, and it's just your opinion.
| liquidv2 wrote on Sun, 31 August 2008 02:32 |
teams with way too many of them that don't actually do something productive get crushed because it's the equivalent of having afk players, especially in a weapons drop server because at least half of them are just running around trying to get a sniper rifle and don't even notice they've wasted 15 minutes in doing so
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...okay? I don't see your point. It's the player's choice to sit there and be a dumbass or not.
| liquidv2 wrote on Sun, 31 August 2008 02:32 |
i think a sbh limit would be really cool, like a vehicle limit
it would make people learn to work together while making things a bit easier for gdi
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This would affect balance, something they've stated that they aren't changing. If a Nod player wants to spend their money on a SBH, let them. Their money to do so.
| liquidv2 wrote on Sun, 31 August 2008 02:32 |
i honestly can't understand why anyone would say invisible infantry is underpowered, it just seems wrong
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Because they aren't underpowered? And they aren't overpowered either?
| liquidv2 wrote on Sun, 31 August 2008 02:32 |
the biggest example of sbh being too powerful would be in a marathon server because they have chance after chance to sneak in while gdi is forced to babysit to stop it (unless the sbh are all incredibly bad and accomplish nothing long enough for gdi to roll their base)
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They are *meant* to have chance after chance to sneak in and wreak havoc in GDI's base, and GDI is *supposed* to have a way of stopping them.
The way I see it, you just get your ass kicked by them and want them to be nerfed or removed so you can play as GDI and "pwnz0r".
| liquidv2 wrote on Sun, 31 August 2008 02:32 |
some people will say NO THE GAME IS PERFECTLY BALANCED GDI IS POWERFUL NOD IS STEALTHY but i won't be able to honestly agree all the time
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The game is quite balanced.
[Updated on: Sun, 31 August 2008 16:03] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #348895 is a reply to message #346858] |
Mon, 01 September 2008 06:15 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7428
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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There is a beautiful paper-rock-scissors balance to the game which is the reason we've been playing it for so many damn years. If both teams had the same units, it wouldn't be nearly as fun.
I am not against the PT fix. I'm very much in favor of studying its affects on gameplay and I have already offered up my server to beta test it. I don't like making assumptions about the affects of a change when it's so much easier to just test it out.
I'm the bawss.
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #348936 is a reply to message #348929] |
Mon, 01 September 2008 11:38 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9726
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
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Goztoe |
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| liquidv2 wrote on Mon, 01 September 2008 19:38 |
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The way I see it, you just get your ass kicked by them and want them to be nerfed or removed so you can play as GDI and "pwnz0r".
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The way I see it, servers that have weapons drop will have anywhere from a third to half of a Nod team using stealth black hands
it's pure idiocy; i don't find it fun facing a team that has the equivalent of 10 afk people and i also dislike being on that team with 10 afk people
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The solution is simple: quit playing on servers with weapon drop. If you want one example: KOSs2 server doesn't have it.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
[Updated on: Mon, 01 September 2008 23:26] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #348950 is a reply to message #346858] |
Mon, 01 September 2008 15:16 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7428
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
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We have weapon drop on n00bstories and that is not the case. Yeah, sometimes it is... but it depends on the random distribution of n00bs.
I have a feeling our days of weapon drop are numbered because I understand why we can't have it if we want to be on the new ladder.
I'm the bawss.
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #348958 is a reply to message #348840] |
Mon, 01 September 2008 19:39 |
kong009
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Location: Oklahoma
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| TruYuri wrote on Sun, 31 August 2008 18:02 |
| liquidv2 wrote on Sun, 31 August 2008 02:32 |
i think a sbh limit would be really cool, like a vehicle limit
it would make people learn to work together while making things a bit easier for gdi
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This would affect balance, something they've stated that they aren't changing. If a Nod player wants to spend their money on a SBH, let them. Their money to do so.
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Are you kidding? TT is making drastic changes to balance, which is why Spoony has the title of "balance coordinator," or were you too busy reading the bullshit you're pulling from your ass to notice?
| TruYuri wrote on Sun, 31 August 2008 18:02 |
They [sbhs] are *meant* to have chance after chance to sneak in and wreak havoc in GDI's base, and GDI is *supposed* to have a way of stopping them.
The way I see it, you just get your ass kicked by them and want them to be nerfed or removed so you can play as GDI and "pwnz0r".
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Actually what he said is the games where Nod is 1/3 to 1/2 sbhs are quite in favor of GDI in terms of balance. That said, I feel disabling weapon drops will significantly reduce the number of sbhs, so I have to disagree with putting a cap on sbhs. If GDI can't defend sbhs in Walls_Flying, for example, GDI is just not playing as a team.
| TruYuri wrote on Sun, 31 August 2008 18:02 |
The game is quite balanced.
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If this were true, why are so many balance changes being made?
For this ladder to work, players need to get together and find a way to define "skill." We must weigh accomplishments in a game against each other (building kills, vehicle kills, consecutive infantry kills that perhaps vary depending on the character class you kill, etc. etc.). Jelly uses a similar ladder system now, and I think it would be an excellent place for you to start.
That is of course just an idea.
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #348967 is a reply to message #346858] |
Mon, 01 September 2008 23:29 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9726
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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Heh? Balance changes? Where? Pointsfix affects both teams the exact same way, so that's no balance change. PT disable will be optional, so you can hardly call it a "balance fix forced by TT". What else is there?
I propose we talk about the ladder when TT starts working at it. And that's definitely not tomorrow...
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
[Updated on: Mon, 01 September 2008 23:30] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #348974 is a reply to message #346858] |
Tue, 02 September 2008 03:48 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7428
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Having a balance coordinator is more so we can NOT affect balance adversely.
I'm the bawss.
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #348979 is a reply to message #348978] |
Tue, 02 September 2008 05:17 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9726
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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| Surth wrote on Tue, 02 September 2008 13:39 |
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Heh? Balance changes? Where? Pointsfix affects both teams the exact same way, so that's no balance change.
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You are wrong.
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No, you!
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #348981 is a reply to message #348980] |
Tue, 02 September 2008 05:25 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9726
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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| Surth wrote on Tue, 02 September 2008 14:24 |
Well, no. I'm right.
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I beg to differ.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #348993 is a reply to message #348958] |
Tue, 02 September 2008 07:32 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915
Registered: January 2006
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General (3 Stars)
Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
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| kong009 wrote on Mon, 01 September 2008 21:39 |
For this ladder to work, players need to get together and find a way to define "skill." We must weigh accomplishments in a game against each other (building kills, vehicle kills, consecutive infantry kills that perhaps vary depending on the character class you kill, etc. etc.). Jelly uses a similar ladder system now, and I think it would be an excellent place for you to start.
That is of course just an idea.
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how often your team wins...
winratio is paramount on my new system, it wasn't before.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #348994 is a reply to message #346858] |
Tue, 02 September 2008 07:36 |
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Spoony's right about win-ratio. If you are a good player, then whichever team you are on should win more often, therefore your win ratio should be good. This however is easily affected by the fact that on timed games, points can win games. That's fine, that's the design. The fact you can win a game by just using ramjets on opposing tanks (don't say you can't, I've won and lost doing this) devalues the win ratio because the "wrong" team can win.
I think we can all agree skill should not depend on how well you can exploit bugs.
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| halokid wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 08:46 |
| R315r4z0r wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 15:35 |
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the hell is that?
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #349093 is a reply to message #349086] |
Tue, 02 September 2008 23:28 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9726
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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| liquidv2 wrote on Wed, 03 September 2008 06:05 |
| Goztow wrote on Tue, 02 September 2008 07:44 |
I do not agree with your disapproval.
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surth has played it out, i'll have to side with him on this one
i actually saw exactly what he stated previously in a game yesterday; i was not happy at all though my team still managed to win narrowly
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I especially liked his arguments, they went straight to my soul.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #349096 is a reply to message #348967] |
Wed, 03 September 2008 01:32 |
w0dka
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| Goztow wrote on Tue, 02 September 2008 01:29 |
Heh? Balance changes? Where? Pointsfix affects both teams the exact same way, so that's no balance change. PT disable will be optional, so you can hardly call it a "balance fix forced by TT". What else is there?
I propose we talk about the ladder when TT starts working at it. And that's definitely not tomorrow...
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It affects game balance. Bothteams can't really use their two top vehicles the Mammoth and Stank cause they would give away to much points. Both tanks are valuable on certain maps. And you can't use them cause if you fail you would never catch up the points difference.
Another balanceissue is that on some maps one base is slightly better guardable then the other. so a camping team could use the massive pointgain from tanks to their advantage.
Thanks.
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