Home » Renegade Discussions » Mod Forum » Need a coder for a balance patch
| Re: Need a coder for a balance patch [message #307274 is a reply to message #307267] |
Wed, 02 January 2008 01:08   |
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Goztow
Messages: 9727
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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People, it's a balance mod, not a bug fixing mod!
| Xpert wrote on Wed, 02 January 2008 08:50 |
| RoShamBo wrote on Tue, 01 January 2008 17:36 |
They changing costs wont reflect what the client sees at their PT.
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That's what I told him also. Prices would be changed but still require the original price just to access it.
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That's one of the most annoying things :S.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: Need a coder for a balance patch [message #307290 is a reply to message #307249] |
Wed, 02 January 2008 05:36 |
Caveman
Messages: 2476
Registered: July 2005
Location: Wales, UK
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General (2 Stars) |
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| Spoony wrote on Wed, 02 January 2008 04:02 |
| Coveman wrote on Tue, 01 January 2008 19:36 |
And the GDI soldier does that much better against heavy armored vehicles?
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I didn't say it did.
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but with the damage change, the Nod soldier will actually have some use, because right now it doesn't except vs a light vehicle if you can't afford anything better... vs infantry you may as well use a pistol
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You just said that at the moment (without your patch) the Nod soldier doesn't have much use against anything except light vehicles and inf. You also said with the damage change it would. So that would mean that GDI's solider does more damage against something that isn't a light vehicle.
| CarrierII wrote |
BLUEHTHEN YOU AR NOT JUST A BIG CHEATAS AND YOU THE BIG HEAD JUST YOU USE FLY H4X FUCK YOU BIG CHEATAS YOUR CHEATZ IS BAD YOU WANT I WRAUGHT THIS YOUR CHEATZ IS BAD HEY IS 1 YEAR YOUR PROMESS A FLY HAX IN MULTIPLAYER AND IS DONT JUST TROOPRM02 I TELL IT ALL WHO REPLYER IN THIS FORUM YOU CHEATZ
Please don't make me type something like that again, not using puntuation is annoying.
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[Updated on: Wed, 02 January 2008 05:37] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Need a coder for a balance patch [message #307297 is a reply to message #307174] |
Wed, 02 January 2008 06:06 |
=HT=T-Bird
Messages: 712
Registered: June 2005
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Colonel |
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The Points Fix is already slated for release as part of the BI XWIS proxy DLL.
However, Cost/Damage/Homing changes are not possible without turning off LagReduction (and making everyone lag beyond crazy, DISTRUST yourself from the console of a BIATCH-equipped server if you want to experience it) or modifying objects.ddb both server- and client- side (would require releasing an official patch through the Renegade patch mechanism along with cooperation from RenGuard).
BTW: RG will get you every time for modifying armor.ini on the client-side, too.
The Chinook armor change would be possible with a server-side objects.ddb modification and will not affect BIATCH (BIATCH damage hack detection looks at the raw damage before armor modifiers are applied).
Finally, fixing the Nod Turret would require server-side and/or client-side objects.ddb modifications (RoF/damage) along with an aimbot developer (haven't you noticed that turrets can't aim at all?). I would be happy with just aiming fixes to the turrets, though.
HTT-Bird (IRC)
HTTBird (WOL)
Proud HazTeam Lieutenant.
BlackIntel Coder & Moderator.
If you have trouble running BIATCH on your FDS, have some questions about a BIATCH message or log entry, or think that BIATCH spit out a false positive, PLEASE contact the BlackIntel coding team and avoid wasting the time of others.
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| Re: Need a coder for a balance patch [message #307302 is a reply to message #307290] |
Wed, 02 January 2008 06:16 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915
Registered: January 2006
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General (3 Stars)
Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
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| Coveman wrote on Wed, 02 January 2008 06:36 |
You just said that at the moment (without your patch) the Nod soldier doesn't have much use against anything except light vehicles and inf.
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no, I said it doesn't have much use against anything except light vehicles. I didn't say it was worth using against infantry, because it isn't.
| Coveman wrote on Wed, 02 January 2008 06:36 |
You also said with the damage change it would. So that would mean that GDI's solider does more damage against something that isn't a light vehicle.
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you've only just worked out that GDI soldiers are better against infantry and you've also come to the conclusion that I've only just worked that out too? er, keep up
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Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: Need a coder for a balance patch [message #307321 is a reply to message #307174] |
Wed, 02 January 2008 08:57 |
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Dover
Messages: 2547
Registered: March 2006
Location: Monterey, California
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General (2 Stars) |
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I know some basic C++, but I'm probably not 1337 enough to do what you're asking.
Also, was nerfing the artillery intentionally left out of the list?
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
Remember kids the internet is serious business.
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| Re: Need a coder for a balance patch [message #307328 is a reply to message #307311] |
Wed, 02 January 2008 09:44 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915
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General (3 Stars)
Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
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| Coveman wrote on Wed, 02 January 2008 08:29 |
Yes but nor does the GDI soldier so whats the point? I've known for years that the GDI soldier is stronger than Nod's and for good reason. I assumed you would have known as well
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I did know, what's with your sudden outpour of nonsensical statements?
| Coveman wrote on Wed, 02 January 2008 08:29 |
which is why I can't understand why you want to make them the same.
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They won't be the same by a long shot.
| Coveman wrote on Wed, 02 January 2008 08:29 |
As for GDIs tanks are not underpowered.. I personally think that the med should beable to beat a engi repairing a building.
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wouldn't make much difference to gameplay and really isn't necessary... the med can simply shoot another building, and there's one vehicle which DOESN'T need more power more than any other, it's the med tank.
| Dover wrote |
Also, was nerfing the artillery intentionally left out of the list?
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Absolutely. They don't need a nerf.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: Need a coder for a balance patch [message #307336 is a reply to message #307174] |
Wed, 02 January 2008 10:16 |
=HT=T-Bird
Messages: 712
Registered: June 2005
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Colonel |
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Errr...did EVERYONE IGNORE MY POST? THE DAMAGE FIXES ARE NOT POSSIBLE SERVERSIDE UNLESS YOU TURN LAGREDUCTION OFF!!!!
HTT-Bird (IRC)
HTTBird (WOL)
Proud HazTeam Lieutenant.
BlackIntel Coder & Moderator.
If you have trouble running BIATCH on your FDS, have some questions about a BIATCH message or log entry, or think that BIATCH spit out a false positive, PLEASE contact the BlackIntel coding team and avoid wasting the time of others.
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| Re: Need a coder for a balance patch [message #307346 is a reply to message #307174] |
Wed, 02 January 2008 10:31 |
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Renx
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Registered: April 2003
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I'm assuming the increase in Patch damage is to make up for the lack of AP damage, like the LCG has. I'm just not sure if that's the right way to go about it... It completely destroys infantry already. Maybe a smaller increase, but not double.
If it does lose any credibility in the AI department at all it's only due to the inbalance of other infantry. Like the ramjet clip size, it would be better at two instead of four shots.
You also forgot to add a fix for the Nod Rocket Officer, you currently don't get any point for damaging him.
~Canucck
[Updated on: Wed, 02 January 2008 10:32] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Need a coder for a balance patch [message #307349 is a reply to message #307346] |
Wed, 02 January 2008 10:36 |
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Spoony
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| Renx wrote on Wed, 02 January 2008 11:31 |
I'm assuming the increase in Patch damage is to make up for the lack of AP damage, like the LCG has. I'm just not sure if that's the right way to go about it... It completely destroys infantry already. Maybe a smaller increase, but not double.
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it's barely more powerful than the GDI soldier against infantry...
| Renx wrote on Wed, 02 January 2008 11:31 |
If it does lose any credibility in the AI department at all it's only due to the inbalance of other infantry. Like the ramjet clip size, it would be better at two instead of four shots.
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ramjet's fine as long as the pointsfix is used now that they have a hard counter... it's fine for them to be superlatively powerful against inf and nearly as good against light vehicles as tanks are if they're absolutely useless against a different class of unit.
| Renx wrote on Wed, 02 January 2008 11:31 |
You also forgot to add a fix for the Nod Rocket Officer, you currently don't get any point for damaging him.
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valid
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Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: Need a coder for a balance patch [message #307354 is a reply to message #307348] |
Wed, 02 January 2008 10:39 |
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Spoony
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| Renx wrote on Wed, 02 January 2008 17:35 |
The need a limit, not a nerf. Artillery SHOULD NOT be Nod's main battle tank. It's absolutely ridiculous that in nearly every game of Renegade I play now Nod has 8 Artillery out on the field.
Limit Artillery to two at a time and buff the LT damage by 20-30%.
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why's it ridiculous? I think it's good people are finally figuring out how good artillery is, it only took 5 years
light tanks definitely don't need any more power, and artillery without light tank support (except on Mesa) is asking for trouble... calling artillery Nod's main battle tank is really not true in the way you could call a med tank GDI's main battle tank. look at Field... if Nod gets nothing but arties and no lights, GDI can rip them up with MRLS pretty easily.
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Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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[Updated on: Wed, 02 January 2008 10:40] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Need a coder for a balance patch [message #307360 is a reply to message #307354] |
Wed, 02 January 2008 10:46 |
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Renx
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| Spoony wrote on Wed, 02 January 2008 13:39 |
| Renx wrote on Wed, 02 January 2008 17:35 |
The need a limit, not a nerf. Artillery SHOULD NOT be Nod's main battle tank. It's absolutely ridiculous that in nearly every game of Renegade I play now Nod has 8 Artillery out on the field.
Limit Artillery to two at a time and buff the LT damage by 20-30%.
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why's it ridiculous? I think it's good people are finally figuring out how good artillery is, it only took 5 years
light tanks definitely don't need any more power, and artillery without light tank support (except on Mesa) is asking for trouble... calling artillery Nod's main battle tank is really not true in the way you could call a med tank GDI's main battle tank. look at Field... if Nod gets nothing but arties and no lights, GDI can rip them up with MRLS pretty easily.
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You know that's far from true. Go into any community match and watch Nod pull nothing but Artillery. 95% of the time they win. Having LT support just makes it slightly more unlikely that GDI will be able to counter.
I'm glad it took people 5 years to start abusing Artillery, it was fun to play as GDI until then. Never before this year have I seen so many people leave a server when they see "Next Map: C&C_Canyon"
~Canucck
[Updated on: Wed, 02 January 2008 10:48] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Need a coder for a balance patch [message #307362 is a reply to message #307358] |
Wed, 02 January 2008 10:50 |
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Spoony
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| Renx wrote on Wed, 02 January 2008 11:42 |
What hard counter? All you proposed was a buff to a GDI unit, I'm not seeing the counter to Havoc.
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how can you not see the counter to ramjets?
| Renx wrote on Wed, 02 January 2008 11:42 |
You know that's far from true. Go into any community match and watch Nod pull nothing but Artillery. 95% of the time they win.
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lol... if CW was GDI we'd have no problem AT ALL countering nod on most maps if all they got was artillery. trust me... there have been comm matches where on Field they got 7 arties. result: they didn't get to fire a single shot on our WF for the entire 30 minutes.
| Renx wrote on Wed, 02 January 2008 11:42 |
I'm glad it took people 5 years to start abusing Artillery
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throwing the word "abusing" in there doesn't make a thing that is not bad bad.
| Renx wrote on Wed, 02 January 2008 11:42 |
Never before this year have I seen so many people leave a server when they see "Next Map: C&C_Canyon"
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The reason Canyon is horribly unfair in many servers is not the arty being overpowered - it's not. It's starting credits and donate. With 0 starting credits and no donate, Canyon is absolutely fair. Starting credits and donate remove GDI's best counter to arties. That's why it's unfair. Nod's best weapon on that map is still there - GDI's best counter to that weapon has gone.
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Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
[Updated on: Wed, 02 January 2008 10:52] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Need a coder for a balance patch [message #307366 is a reply to message #307364] |
Wed, 02 January 2008 11:05 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915
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| Renx wrote on Wed, 02 January 2008 12:00 |
Canyon was absolutely fine with starting credits and donate at this time last year. Coincidentally, there weren't 6 artillery on the field within the first 3 minutes of every map either at this time last year.
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that doesn't demonstrate that Canyon was fair, it demonstrates that most players weren't bright enough to use Nod's most effective weapon on that map.
| Renx wrote on Wed, 02 January 2008 11:42 |
The only possible counter to ramjets I see there is the reduction in cost to chaingun officers. But a reduction in cost to units that are still killed with half their clip, or an increase in damage to a unit that is still outranged by... the entire length of the map, won't do too much good.
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I don't really believe I'm hearing you say this...
the counter to ramjets is any heavy vehicle (as long as the pointsfix is in effect)
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Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: Need a coder for a balance patch [message #307369 is a reply to message #307266] |
Wed, 02 January 2008 11:21 |
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| Rocko wrote on Wed, 02 January 2008 08:40 |
| cmatt42 wrote on Wed, 02 January 2008 01:33 |
| Spoony wrote on Tue, 01 January 2008 17:19 |
- Nod Soldier rifle damage increased to match GDI Soldier rifle damage against all targets
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Nod has the stronger vehcicles; are you going to buff the GDI vehicles as well? 
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all he mentioned was making nod soldier balanced with the gdi, no one talked about making all vehicles different
god damn some of you are fucking retarded
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You cannot balance units on a one-on-one basis, that would result in both teams having exactly the same units. You have to balance the game through all units. If the Nod auto rifle does less damage, Nod needs an advantage somewhere else, e.g. by having a stealthed unit.
| =HT=T-Bird wrote on Wed, 02 January 2008 14:06 |
The
However, Cost/Damage/Homing changes are not possible without turning off LagReduction (and making everyone lag beyond crazy, DISTRUST yourself from the console of a BIATCH-equipped server if you want to experience it) or modifying objects.ddb both server- and client- side (would require releasing an official patch through the Renegade patch mechanism along with cooperation from RenGuard).
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You cannot change homing because clients would not see that a missile follows its target. Same for costs, the client does not see the change.
But you CAN change damage server-side without touching LagReduction and without changing client's presets.
| =HT=T-Bird wrote on Wed, 02 January 2008 14:06 |
BTW: RG will get you every time for modifying armor.ini on the client-side, too.
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Damage multiplicators from armor.ini are completely server-side.
| =HT=T-Bird wrote on Wed, 02 January 2008 14:06 |
Finally, fixing the Nod Turret would require server-side and/or client-side objects.ddb modifications (RoF/damage) along with an aimbot developer (haven't you noticed that turrets can't aim at all?). I would be happy with just aiming fixes to the turrets, though.
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You can change damage server-side and the _improved_ turrets aim fine, but their bullets are too slow (and you cannot change their speed server-side without annoying clients).
Yrr.
Creator of...
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| Re: Need a coder for a balance patch [message #307370 is a reply to message #307174] |
Wed, 02 January 2008 11:21 |
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Renx
Messages: 2321
Registered: April 2003
Location: Canada
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General (2 Stars)
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Just because they give off less points now doesn't make them any more of a counter. An APC is still going to kill one in seconds regardless of how many point it gives away. A ramjet is still going to run away from a LT regardless of how many point it gives away. It's great that the game is more balanced now in terms of points, but that doesn't change the balance in terms of damage.
If you changed it so Artillery gained no point for attacking buildings, would you not still use them in a community match? Of course you would, because they're excellent at killing buildings and the objective is base kill. If you're a ramjet, the objective is killing infantry (moreso now because of the point fix, the objective never should have been whoring points from vehicles), and they're far too effective at it.
~Canucck
[Updated on: Wed, 02 January 2008 11:23] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Need a coder for a balance patch [message #307371 is a reply to message #307369] |
Wed, 02 January 2008 11:26 |
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| Yrr wrote on Wed, 02 January 2008 18:21 |
(The rest of his post...)
| =HT=T-Bird wrote on Wed, 02 January 2008 14:06 |
Finally, fixing the Nod Turret would require server-side and/or client-side objects.ddb modifications (RoF/damage) along with an aimbot developer (haven't you noticed that turrets can't aim at all?). I would be happy with just aiming fixes to the turrets, though.
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You can change damage server-side and the _improved_ turrets aim fine, but their bullets are too slow (and you cannot change their speed server-side without annoying clients).
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Matty managed it somehow. I will go poke him.
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