Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » Drugs ARE NOT bad
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| Re: Drugs ARE NOT bad [message #298116 is a reply to message #298115] |
Wed, 21 November 2007 14:17   |
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| BlueThen wrote on Wed, 21 November 2007 16:07 |
Think of how corrupt society would be if drugs were legalized. We would cease from advancing.
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Explain to me how it would be any more corrupt.
The way I see it is that high drug prices due to smugging and selling would be cut drastically. If they're cut drastically, then there's no reason for people who use the drugs to go to such lengths to get their drug. We saw gangs rise during the 1920s due to Prohibition. They lost their effect when Prohibition was ended. The same principle can be applied to the War on Drugs.
Also, most people drink alcohol, do they not? Most people aren't reckless, so we don't see a whole lot of negativity. Most people don't go abusing the drug, just like most people wouldn't be abusing clean drugs bought from a store. Of course, as there is with alcohol, there'd be exceptions to this with the legalization of drugs, but it'd rid of a lot more criminals.
Libertarian Party | The King's Throne | The Soda Shop
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| Re: Drugs ARE NOT bad [message #298119 is a reply to message #297772] |
Wed, 21 November 2007 14:31 |
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spazbeast
Messages: 199
Registered: November 2004
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I think this whole argument would end if they legalized marijuana.
Most of you just stopped reading this post im sure. Just think about all the money the U.S. spends fighting it, yet it will never end. If we legalize it, think of how much we can make on taxing the stuff? Then we can finally pay off the debts we owe the other countries. Give it the same rules as alcohol. don't smoke and drive, don't drink and drive. Don't be high publicly, don't be drunk in public either. Plus, think of all the people who smoked pot and are in jail at the moment for that taking up the space for people that are actually hurting others. Drugs that you do in your own home may harm only you. The guy that just shot that old lady is that should be focused on.
Next year alone the United States government plans to spend 12.7 billion fighting drugs. Instead of fighting it, let people sell it and use it in the privacy of their own home and turn that 12.7 billion into taxes on the product. Source: http://www.cfr.org/publication/10373/#2
PROFIT.
Think of when you were little.
Johnny, dont throw baseballs at her house.
What do you do?
You throw that damn baseball at her house to see what happens.
I think the same concept comes into this situation. You tell us no, were going to do it to see what happens.
[Updated on: Wed, 21 November 2007 14:34] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Drugs ARE NOT bad [message #298120 is a reply to message #298114] |
Wed, 21 November 2007 14:32 |
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warranto
Messages: 2584
Registered: February 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
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General (2 Stars) |
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| cheesesoda wrote on Wed, 21 November 2007 14:06 |
It's public property, so it doesn't have the same protections as a private residence or business. I'm sure you don't wish to outlaw sex in one's home, but I'm sure you also don't want sex in plain sight to be legalized, either.
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Right, nor would I want the immediate effects of sex (if there were any, and no I don't mean kids) to be dealt with outside of the home either.
Be it alcohol, marijuana, cocaine, or tobacco, I do not want to deal with people who would be under their effects or deal with whatever "harm" (stench or physical) that they would cause.
Sex in private is legal done because everyone who could be effcted by it is concenting. If you were sitting your child down to watch however, sex, no matter how private, would be (and is) illegal.
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| Re: Drugs ARE NOT bad [message #298122 is a reply to message #298119] |
Wed, 21 November 2007 14:34 |
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warranto
Messages: 2584
Registered: February 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
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General (2 Stars) |
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| spazbeast wrote on Wed, 21 November 2007 14:31 |
I think this whole argument would end if they legalized marijuana.
Most of you just stopped reading this post im sure. Just think about all the money the U.S. spends fighting it, yet it will never end. If we legalize it, think of how much we can make on taxing the stuff? Then we can finally pay off the debts we owe the other countries. Give it the same rules as alcohol. don't smoke and drive, don't drink and drive. Don't be high publicly, don't be drunk in public either. Plus, think of all the people who smoked pot and are in jail at the moment for that taking up the space for people that are actually hurting others. Drugs that you do in your own home may harm only you. The guy that just shot that old lady is that should be focused on.
Next year alone the United States government plans to spend 12.7 billion fighting drugs. Instead of fighting it, let people sell it and use it in the privacy of their own home and turn that 12.7 billion into taxes on the product. Source: http://www.cfr.org/publication/10373/#2
PROFIT.
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Because as we all know if you can profit from it, go a head and do it! Heck, why not make murder for hire a government-authorized and taxed business. That could become highly profitable, and you would no longer have to spend resources on fighting it!
Wait... are these the same people who are fighting for the right to download music for free?
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| Re: Drugs ARE NOT bad [message #298123 is a reply to message #298120] |
Wed, 21 November 2007 14:42 |
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| warranto wrote on Wed, 21 November 2007 16:32 |
| cheesesoda wrote on Wed, 21 November 2007 14:06 |
It's public property, so it doesn't have the same protections as a private residence or business. I'm sure you don't wish to outlaw sex in one's home, but I'm sure you also don't want sex in plain sight to be legalized, either.
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Right, nor would I want the immediate effects of sex (if there were any, and no I don't mean kids) to be dealt with outside of the home either.
Be it alcohol, marijuana, cocaine, or tobacco, I do not want to deal with people who would be under their effects or deal with whatever "harm" (stench or physical) that they would cause.
Sex in private is legal done because everyone who could be effcted by it is concenting. If you were sitting your child down to watch however, sex, no matter how private, would be (and is) illegal.
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So we should start regulating showers, then? Should we make not taking a shower, at least, 4 times a week illegal? "You smell, therefore you're under arrest." Yup, makes sense.
If I'm drinking alcohol (or doing any other drug) around people who (again, as I stated earlier) are willfully there, I see no reason why it should be illegal.
@BlueThen: Should we just live in a fucking bubble, then? Let's ban alcohol, drugs, guns, knives, automobiles, manufacturing, and everything else that could potentially harm the environment or each other. WOULDN'T LIFE BE FUN, THEN?
Libertarian Party | The King's Throne | The Soda Shop
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| Re: Drugs ARE NOT bad [message #298125 is a reply to message #298123] |
Wed, 21 November 2007 14:46 |
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BlueThen
Messages: 2402
Registered: February 2006
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General (2 Stars) |
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| cheesesoda wrote on Wed, 21 November 2007 15:42 |
@BlueThen: Should we just live in a fucking bubble, then? Let's ban alcohol, drugs, guns, knives, automobiles, manufacturing, and everything else that could potentially harm the environment or each other. WOULDN'T LIFE BE FUN, THEN?
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Let's try and minimize the damage to society, instead of just legalizing everything cause if we aint perfect, then it aint worth trying.
It's like ONLY give money to charity if you have 1000000 donations, but if you don't, let's keep the money!
That's just fucked up and illogical.
[Updated on: Wed, 21 November 2007 14:46] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Drugs ARE NOT bad [message #298128 is a reply to message #298125] |
Wed, 21 November 2007 14:54 |
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| BlueThen wrote on Wed, 21 November 2007 16:46 |
| cheesesoda wrote on Wed, 21 November 2007 15:42 |
@BlueThen: Should we just live in a fucking bubble, then? Let's ban alcohol, drugs, guns, knives, automobiles, manufacturing, and everything else that could potentially harm the environment or each other. WOULDN'T LIFE BE FUN, THEN?
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Let's try and minimize the damage to society, instead of just legalizing everything cause if we aint perfect, then it aint worth trying.
It's like ONLY give money to charity if you have 1000000 donations, but if you don't, let's keep the money!
That's just fucked up and illogical.
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Illogical? I'm not the one who suggested that an increase in drug usage would cause noticeable amounts of pollution.
Again, you're making assumptions based on what you think you know about people. However, I look back at Prohibition, and I see how violent crime went down after Prohibition was repealed. I see a direct correlation between telling people that they can't enjoy recreational drugs within their private residences and telling people they can't drink alcohol.
Again... Watch. The. Fucking. Movie.
Libertarian Party | The King's Throne | The Soda Shop
[Updated on: Wed, 21 November 2007 14:57] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Drugs ARE NOT bad [message #298131 is a reply to message #298123] |
Wed, 21 November 2007 15:02 |
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warranto
Messages: 2584
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Location: Alberta, Canada
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General (2 Stars) |
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| cheesesoda wrote on Wed, 21 November 2007 14:42 |
| warranto wrote on Wed, 21 November 2007 16:32 |
| cheesesoda wrote on Wed, 21 November 2007 14:06 |
It's public property, so it doesn't have the same protections as a private residence or business. I'm sure you don't wish to outlaw sex in one's home, but I'm sure you also don't want sex in plain sight to be legalized, either.
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Right, nor would I want the immediate effects of sex (if there were any, and no I don't mean kids) to be dealt with outside of the home either.
Be it alcohol, marijuana, cocaine, or tobacco, I do not want to deal with people who would be under their effects or deal with whatever "harm" (stench or physical) that they would cause.
Sex in private is legal done because everyone who could be effcted by it is concenting. If you were sitting your child down to watch however, sex, no matter how private, would be (and is) illegal.
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So we should start regulating showers, then? Should we make not taking a shower, at least, 4 times a week illegal? "You smell, therefore you're under arrest." Yup, makes sense.
If I'm drinking alcohol (or doing any other drug) around people who (again, as I stated earlier) are willfully there, I see no reason why it should be illegal.
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Actually, if it comes to the person reeking so bad that it causes others near them to faint/throw up or have trouble breathing (as is what happens when I smell either tobacco or marijuana smoke), then yes.
Tell you what, if you can guarantee me that whenever ANYONE gets high or drunk that they will not, under any circumstances, affect those around them during the term that they are impaired, then I will agree that it should be made legal.
[Updated on: Wed, 21 November 2007 15:02] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Drugs ARE NOT bad [message #298133 is a reply to message #297772] |
Wed, 21 November 2007 15:04 |
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Canadacdn
Messages: 1830
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Location: Temple of Nod
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General (1 Star)
PLECOS MASTER |
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| BlueThen wrote on Wed, 21 November 2007 15:07 |
Think of how corrupt society would be if drugs were legalized. We would cease from advancing.
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Bluethen, you are saying that if we legalized some drugs, it would destroy our society. Look at the Netherlands for example. They decriminalized Cannabis for personal use, and nothing happened. The city didn't explode in an orgy of blood, violence, and crime.
People like you only seem to think that stuff they don't like and have issues with should not be allowed period. People like you are in office, and are continuing to keep these mundane laws around that harm millions. People like you need to stop crying and listen to someone else's point of view for once.
We need to get smart about drugs. Not tough.
[Updated on: Wed, 21 November 2007 15:06] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Drugs ARE NOT bad [message #298137 is a reply to message #298133] |
Wed, 21 November 2007 15:08 |
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BlueThen
Messages: 2402
Registered: February 2006
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General (2 Stars) |
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| Canadacdn wrote on Wed, 21 November 2007 16:04 |
| BlueThen wrote on Wed, 21 November 2007 15:07 |
Think of how corrupt society would be if drugs were legalized. We would cease from advancing.
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Bluethen, you are saying that if we legalized some drugs, it would destroy our society. Look at the Netherlands for example. They decriminalized Cannabis for personal use, and nothing happened. The city didn't explode in an orgy of blood, violence, and crime.
People like you only seem to think that stuff they don't like and have issues with should not be allowed period. People like you are in office, and are continuing to keep these mundane laws around that harm millions. People like you need to stop crying and listen to someone else's point of view for once.
We need to get smart about drugs. Not tough.
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That's just a single drug, everyone wants to legalize ALL drugs.
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| Re: Drugs ARE NOT bad [message #298139 is a reply to message #298137] |
Wed, 21 November 2007 15:13 |
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Canadacdn
Messages: 1830
Registered: September 2005
Location: Temple of Nod
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General (1 Star)
PLECOS MASTER |
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| BlueThen wrote on Wed, 21 November 2007 16:08 |
| Canadacdn wrote on Wed, 21 November 2007 16:04 |
| BlueThen wrote on Wed, 21 November 2007 15:07 |
Think of how corrupt society would be if drugs were legalized. We would cease from advancing.
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Bluethen, you are saying that if we legalized some drugs, it would destroy our society. Look at the Netherlands for example. They decriminalized Cannabis for personal use, and nothing happened. The city didn't explode in an orgy of blood, violence, and crime.
People like you only seem to think that stuff they don't like and have issues with should not be allowed period. People like you are in office, and are continuing to keep these mundane laws around that harm millions. People like you need to stop crying and listen to someone else's point of view for once.
We need to get smart about drugs. Not tough.
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That's just a single drug, everyone wants to legalize ALL drugs.
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No, not everyone wants to legalize all drugs. There goes another broad, sweeping statement coming straight from your ass. Most drug legalization movements are geared towards legalizing 'soft drugs' like Cannabis etc.
Full out legalization would be a stupid idea, as there are genuinely harmful drugs out there like Meth and Crack that can seriously fuck up your life and health. Those need to be controlled, while others should be legalized, because enforcing them is a waste of time, money, and prison space.
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| Re: Drugs ARE NOT bad [message #298147 is a reply to message #298144] |
Wed, 21 November 2007 15:54 |
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warranto
Messages: 2584
Registered: February 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
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General (2 Stars) |
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| cheesesoda wrote on Wed, 21 November 2007 15:45 |
| warranto |
Tell you what, if you can guarantee me that whenever ANYONE gets high or drunk that they will not, under any circumstances, affect those around them during the term that they are impaired, then I will agree that it should be made legal.
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So you're wanting it to remain illegal for the simple fact that a minority of people would impede on the rights of others? Great idea! 
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Well, I should apologies then... I didn't realize your right to do what you want when you want automatically trumps my right not to be affected by it.
I also didn't realize you were all for legalizing drunk driving (only a minority of people do that), minor theft (only a minority of people do that) and even spousal abuse (only a minority of people do that). After all, if you want your argument about not letting the minority dictate the law to hold, then you are forced to acknowledge that ANY law where only a minority of the people act against that law should be abolished.
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| Re: Drugs ARE NOT bad [message #298153 is a reply to message #298147] |
Wed, 21 November 2007 16:13 |
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| warranto wrote on Wed, 21 November 2007 17:54 |
| cheesesoda wrote on Wed, 21 November 2007 15:45 |
| warranto |
Tell you what, if you can guarantee me that whenever ANYONE gets high or drunk that they will not, under any circumstances, affect those around them during the term that they are impaired, then I will agree that it should be made legal.
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So you're wanting it to remain illegal for the simple fact that a minority of people would impede on the rights of others? Great idea!
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Well, I should apologies then... I didn't realize your right to do what you want when you want automatically trumps my right not to be affected by it.
I also didn't realize you were all for legalizing drunk driving (only a minority of people do that), minor theft (only a minority of people do that) and even spousal abuse (only a minority of people do that). After all, if you want your argument about not letting the minority dictate the law to hold, then you are forced to acknowledge that ANY law where only a minority of the people act against that law should be abolished.
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Theft and abuse are illegal, regardless. Once you do the act, you've impeded on someone else's rights. If you drink alcohol or smoke marijuana, you're not necessarily going to impede on the rights of others unless you walk out into the public and make a spectacle of yourself.
My argument isn't that a law where only a minority of people commit should be abolished. That's far from what I'm getting at, and either you're knowingly playing semantics, or you're just simply not understanding it.
It has nothing to do with a minority of people breaking the law. It has everything to do with allowing people to do an act even though there are people that are going to do something stupid as a result of the act. It's not the act itself that's impeding on the rights of others.
Libertarian Party | The King's Throne | The Soda Shop
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| Re: Drugs ARE NOT bad [message #298157 is a reply to message #297772] |
Wed, 21 November 2007 16:35 |
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warranto
Messages: 2584
Registered: February 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
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General (2 Stars) |
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| Quote: |
If you drink alcohol or smoke marijuana, you're not necessarily going to impede on the rights of others unless you walk out into the public and make a spectacle of yourself.
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Because, as we all know, the fact that making smoking marijuana legal means they are only going to smoke it inside when they are alone...
right...
Hey, you're the one who was disagreeing with the argument about a minority controlling the law (to summarize it). Why else would you have called me stupid for making that point if you didn't agree with the opposition?
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It has nothing to do with a minority of people breaking the law. It has everything to do with allowing people to do an act even though there are people that are going to do something stupid as a result of the act. It's not the act itself that's impeding on the rights of others.
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Ah, but why should they be allowed to do an act in public if it is doing it in public that causes the problem in the first place? I mean, seriously... "getting high" is ok, but "causing an accident because you are high" is not? Why put even more strain on the already over-burdened police force on controlling the action of those who are high when it can be stopped at the source? (Wait... I thought legalizing it would relieve the strain on the police... guess not, it just means they go from "arresting those who use" to "giving out tickets to those who use while doing something they shouldn't be while high".
Besides, you yourself just said it can cause people to do stupid things... I thought this wasn't a harmful drug?
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| Re: Drugs ARE NOT bad [message #298159 is a reply to message #298157] |
Wed, 21 November 2007 16:51 |
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| warranto |
Because, as we all know, the fact that making smoking marijuana legal means they are only going to smoke it inside when they are alone...
right...
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Why would that be much different than alcohol? I don't go drinking while walking down the street. I drink it while at home or in a bar with a few friends around me.
| warranto |
Hey, you're the one who was disagreeing with the argument about a minority controlling the law (to summarize it). Why else would you have called me stupid for making that point if you didn't agree with the opposition?
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I called you stupid? When?
Again, I made it clear that the act doesn't guarantee that someone else's rights are being impeded on.
| warranto |
Ah, but why should they be allowed to do an act in public if it is doing it in public that causes the problem in the first place? I mean, seriously... "getting high" is ok, but "causing an accident because you are high" is not? Why put even more strain on the already over-burdened police force on controlling the action of those who are high when it can be stopped at the source? (Wait... I thought legalizing it would relieve the strain on the police... guess not, it just means they go from "arresting those who use" to "giving out tickets to those who use while doing something they shouldn't be while high".
Besides, you yourself just said it can cause people to do stupid things... I thought this wasn't a harmful drug?
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I never said that they should be allowed to smoke or drink in public. Though, I'm not seeing why one shouldn't be able to.
Being drunk or high doesn't necessarily make you a danger to society. Driving impaired, on the other hand, is much more detrimental to others than being slightly intoxicated while in public.
Over-burdened police force? The police around here have to pull people over to meet their ticket-quotas for the month. If anything, they have too much time on their hands. I'm sure my county isn't an anomaly.
Can it be stopped at the source? If the past 3 decades have been any indication of things... there's no chance in Hell it can be stopped. The War on Drugs hasn't been successful, isn't successful, and shows no signs of being successful.
Edit: I realize that you don't smoke alcohol... you drink it. >.>
Libertarian Party | The King's Throne | The Soda Shop
[Updated on: Wed, 21 November 2007 17:19] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Drugs ARE NOT bad [message #298160 is a reply to message #297772] |
Wed, 21 November 2007 17:19 |
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warranto
Messages: 2584
Registered: February 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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| Quote: |
Can it be stopped at the source? If the past 3 decades have been any indication of things... there's no chance in Hell it can be stopped. The War on Drugs hasn't been successful, isn't successful, and shows no signs of being successful.
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So that means they should give in...
right...
Since political catchphrases seem to be so overused these days, I'll borrow one.
for the past ??? number of years, no one has been able to stop TERRORISM (over-dramatic music goes off). I guess we should legalize that too! After all, if you can't fight it, why bother trying?
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Why would that be much different than alcohol? I don't go drinking while walking down the street. I smoke it while at home or in a bar with a few friends around me.
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Guess what, though? Drinking out on the street is illegal! Imagine that! And here you are wanting to make smoking pot legal across the board, yet the very thing used in comparison is also illegal!
Smoking in a bar, huh? Can I assume every single person that walks into that bar will consent to you doing that? If not, you are a hypocrite and pretty much proved my previous point.
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I called you stupid? When?
Again, I made it clear that the act doesn't guarantee that someone else's rights are being impeded on.
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You implied I was stupid when you sarcastically said I was doing a good job. If that is not what you meant, I suggest you stay away from using sarcasm until you understand what it is used for.
You may have said that, but it does nothing to defeat my argument. You can not guarantee that someone else's rights WON'T be impeded on, either. Meaning some sort of other qualification must be used.
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Over-burdened police force? The police around here have to pull people over to meet their ticket-quotas for the month. If anything, they have too much time on their hands. I'm sure my county isn't an anomaly.
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Hmm... what happened to that argument that the police can't stop the more dangerous crime because they have to deal with enforcing the minor crimes? Guess you defeated your own argument there, if the police have too much time on their hands.
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Being drunk or high doesn't necessarily make you a danger to society. Driving impaired, on the other hand, is much more detrimental to others than being slightly intoxicated while in public.
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Right, unfortunately being drunk or high ENABLES the act of driving drunk, etc. Why put out the resources to stop drunk driving, when you can stop it completely by not allowing people to be drunk in public (or at all, but that's my personal view)
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| Re: Drugs ARE NOT bad [message #298163 is a reply to message #298160] |
Wed, 21 November 2007 17:38 |
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| warranto |
So that means they should give in...
right...
Since political catchphrases seem to be so overused these days, I'll borrow one.
for the past ??? number of years, no one has been able to stop TERRORISM (over-dramatic music goes off). I guess we should legalize that too! After all, if you can't fight it, why bother trying?
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Terrorism is a direct attack on the rights of others. Doing drugs itself is NOT impeding on someone else's rights. What don't you understand about that? How can you ban an act because it could potentially lead to something else? Should we ban automobiles because it could potentially lead to manslaughter?
| warranto |
Guess what, though? Drinking out on the street is illegal! Imagine that! And here you are wanting to make smoking pot legal across the board, yet the very thing used in comparison is also illegal!
Smoking in a bar, huh? Can I assume every single person that walks into that bar will consent to you doing that? If not, you are a hypocrite and pretty much proved my previous point.
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It shouldn't be. I drink in public on most Saturdays (during football season), and I cause absolutely no harm to those around me. In fact, most patrons have open alcohol. Little to no harm done. Hmm... imagine that.
If the bar's owner wants to allow smoking weed in his place of business, he has every right to allow it. If the patron doesn't like it, oh well. The patron can leave. It's not his business to run.
| warranto |
You implied I was stupid when you sarcastically said I was doing a good job. If that is not what you meant, I suggest you stay away from using sarcasm until you understand what it is used for.
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Sure, warranto, because saying "good job" sarcastically MUST mean that I think you're stupid. Or it could mean that I disagree with you...
| warranto |
You may have said that, but it does nothing to defeat my argument. You can not guarantee that someone else's rights WON'T be impeded on, either. Meaning some sort of other qualification must be used.
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Our police force is a responsive authority. It's not a preventative. Just because something COULD happen doesn't mean it will. Again, shall we ban automobiles because of the potential danger?
| warranto |
Hmm... what happened to that argument that the police can't stop the more dangerous crime because they have to deal with enforcing the minor crimes? Guess you defeated your own argument there, if the police have too much time on their hands.
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Yes, let's put words in my mouth, so you can use those words to make me sound like I'm contradicting myself. Well played... if only I didn't realize what I said.
| warranto |
Right, unfortunately being drunk or high ENABLES the act of driving drunk, etc. Why put out the resources to stop drunk driving, when you can stop it completely by not allowing people to be drunk in public (or at all, but that's my personal view)
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It's called personal responsibility. Don't punish those of us that take responsibility for our actions while sober or intoxicated. I have yet to drive drunk (and I have no plan to). I have yet to steal for drug money (partly because I've never done any illicit drugs).
Libertarian Party | The King's Throne | The Soda Shop
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