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the draft [message #21927] Fri, 23 May 2003 11:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
KIRBY098 is currently offline  KIRBY098
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Duke of Nukes

KIRBY098

If you have as much concept of civic duty and loyalty backed up with action as I think you do, you would never understand.

let he among you that has not sinned cast the first stone...right? The very first insult thrown on this thread...so dont even blame me

same side or not...if you're not in it for the right reason, then you're not on my side.

K9Trooper

Why is it, every time the US has any kind of a conflict, the anti war/conflict groups start the "Draft Re-opened" rumor?


putting words into my mouth...and then I defended myself.

as for spotelmo...we weren't in Korea nor vietnam for the right reasons. They started out good...but they turned into mental retardation that we should be there.


oK, You quoting scripture is funny.

Second, what were the reasons we were in Korea?

Third, you still think South Vietnam exists as a soveriegn nation. Why should we even ponder for a second what you think of that entire situation?


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the draft [message #22055] Sat, 24 May 2003 15:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
spotelmo is currently offline  spotelmo
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south korea and vietnam were both noble causes.
we were there to stop communist aggression. in korea we were successful. in vietnam, the military was successful, the politicians were not. either way, they were both good reasons to go to war. just like if north korea were to attack the south today, it would be a good reason to go to war again.
the draft [message #22081] Sat, 24 May 2003 19:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TheatreRaptor is currently offline  TheatreRaptor
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I have not read all replys but I read the first message plus some. I would just like to say that the draft can be a necessary thing. If you don't believe in this country and what it fights for you shouldn't live here. If you do then you wont mind fighting for it. Sometimes the army might be lacking in numbers especially in a larger war. The only way to increase its numbers is by iniciating a draft. This is a last resort sort of thing and wont be done unless necessary for the survival of this country and its people but is completely acceptable to me and all loyal Americans. If you don't like the idea that any day when you are needed they can come to the door and ask you to go, leave the friggin country Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation

Thanks,
Bret R.
the draft [message #22344] Tue, 27 May 2003 07:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
MrBob is currently offline  MrBob
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Commander

The Korean War was a good cause, despite what socialist assholes may think. North Korea invaded South Korea, which is obviously wrong.

The Vietnam War was a good cause, same reason for the Korean War. Look, I may not agreee with EVERYTHING Lindin(sp?) Johnson (Nixon was not the bad guy) did, but does that make the entire war was WRONG? No.

The North Vietnamese violated the Geneva Convention SEVERAL times. What did the UN do? Nothing. The Viet Cocks would purposely kill medics; they'd set up booby traps and hid in holes like cowards.

But, of course, WE are the ones to blame, right? God Forbid we defend someone elses freedom. God Forbid we cared about the South Vietnamese, right? :rolleyes:


God is the "0wnage". Plain and Simple.

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the draft [message #22411] Tue, 27 May 2003 15:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
anort893
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Yah, the NVA violated the Geneva convention all over the place, stting traps for medics, killing villages that would not support them, shooting downed airmen, etc, but that is noting new. The Koreans did the same things, and the Japanese trained their troops to yell "corpsman"(the Marine equivelent of a medic) just to wipe out evey medic the could reach.

Also, I beleive that the simple abandonment of the Sout Vietnamese was just wrong, especially when we really knew about the politicat "purges" that would follow(simply because that is what every communist goverment since the dawn of time has done when taking over new territory).


The one, the only
-Anort893
the draft [message #23249] Sun, 01 June 2003 09:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Duke of Nukes is currently offline  Duke of Nukes
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MrBob

North Korea invaded South Korea, which is obviously wrong.


no more than the North invaded the south during our own Civil War. Remember...Korea was it's own country first...same with Vietnam


I dont care if you write me a letter
I dont care what you say to me no more
All I got is trash left at my door
What you have dont worry me, worry me now more
- Calvin Baty, Craving Theo

What have I become?
My sweetest friend
Everyone I know
Goes away in the end
You could have it all
My empire of dirt
I will let you down
I will make you hurt
- Trent Reznor, NIN
the draft [message #23262] Sun, 01 June 2003 11:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
anort893
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Quote:

MrBob wrote:
North Korea invaded South Korea, which is obviously wrong.


no more than the North invaded the south during our own Civil War. Remember...Korea was it's own country first...same with Vietnam


Duke, learn your history. The Union invaded the Confederacy because it broke away from a soveriegn state. Korea wasn't a state before the Korean war, it was teritory conquered by Japan. The commies then took over the north and set up a government there, and the U.S. took the south and set up a governmet there. The North decided that it wanted it all, and invaded with the help of other foriegn powers. There is NO comparison to the American Civil War.


The one, the only
-Anort893
the draft [message #23317] Sun, 01 June 2003 16:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NeoSaber is currently offline  NeoSaber
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Duke of Nukes

no more than the North invaded the south during our own Civil War.


The Confederacy attacked first. If they hadn't, Lincoln may not have been able to get enough political support for a war with the south.


NeoSaber

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the draft [message #23356] Mon, 02 June 2003 01:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TheatreRaptor is currently offline  TheatreRaptor
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anort893

Quote:

MrBob wrote:
North Korea invaded South Korea, which is obviously wrong.


no more than the North invaded the south during our own Civil War. Remember...Korea was it's own country first...same with Vietnam


Duke, learn your history. The Union invaded the Confederacy because it broke away from a soveriegn state. Korea wasn't a state before the Korean war, it was teritory conquered by Japan. The commies then took over the north and set up a government there, and the U.S. took the south and set up a governmet there. The North decided that it wanted it all, and invaded with the help of other foriegn powers. There is NO comparison to the American Civil War.

Korea broke away but was a country for a short period of time before it broke into two parts, north and south. However, what we were trying to do is to free those that wanted freedom but could not due to outside powers. No matter how you look at it, that should be the ultimate goal of the US. Help those that want help!


Thanks,
Bret R.
the draft [message #23377] Mon, 02 June 2003 07:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
K9Trooper is currently offline  K9Trooper
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Duke of Nukes




no more than the North invaded the south during our own Civil War. Remember...Korea was it's own country first...same with Vietnam


Ummmm. Does anyone remember Fort Sumter?

April 12, 1861 - At 4:30 AM Confederates under General Pierre Beauregard open fire with 50 cannons upon Fort Sumter in Charleston, South Carolina. The Civil War begins.

July 21, 1861 - The Union Army under Gen. Irvin McDowell suffers a defeat at Bull Run 25 miles southwest of Washington. Confederate Gen. Thomas J. Jackson earns the nickname "Stonewall," as his brigade resists Union attacks. Union troops fall back to Washington. President Lincoln realizes the war will be long. "It's damned bad," he comments.

So Duke your Third World education fails you again. The South fired the first shots. It took 2 months before the Union sent its army in the the south.

http://www.civilwar.com/timehome.htm


R.I.P. TreyD. You will be missed, but not forgotten.
the draft [message #23390] Mon, 02 June 2003 09:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
KIRBY098 is currently offline  KIRBY098
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General (1 Star)
A-Level History




American Civil War: Overview

Important features

The two main theatres of land warfare


West of Appalachians centring on Mississippi
East of Appalachians centring on the area between the rival capitals Washington and Richmond
Strategy and tactics

This is often called the first modern war.

By the 1860s muskets with rapid fire and rifled barrels (accurate range of 600 yards instead of previous 60) were changing the nature of land warfare. They could easily destroy drilled infantry still advancing in close formation as in the Napoleonic Wars. At Gettysburg defenders in secure positions shot Pickett's disastrous charge to pieces and ensured it was the last display of old-style tactics.
Until 1863 warfare was dominated by an army's need to maintain a line of communication with its supply base. But Grant and Sherman in the South showed the terrible effectiveness of striking into enemy territory and living off the land, the invaders plundering and devastating it as they marched.
At sea, warfare was in transition. Steam was replacing sail and both sides experimented with ironclad ships.
Casualties
Half a million men were killed.

Resources

Most advantages were with the Union
an organised government
twice the manpower of the South
most of the industry
command of the seas (hence successful blockade of South)The Confederacy had one main advantage
it was the world's main supplier of cotton

Fast Forward

1861 Southern states withdraw (secede) from the Union on election of anti-slavery president Lincoln
1861 Feb Provisional government of Confederacy is set up with Jefferson Davis as President
1861 April Confederacy starts war by attacking Fort Sumter, Union garrison in Southern territory
1861 July At Ist battle of Bull Run in Virginia Confederate general 'Stonewall Jackson' holds off Union forces
1862 September Confederate general Lee's attempted invasion of North is defeated at Antietam in Virginia 1862 Union executes pincer movement on Confederacy west of Appalachians - Grant defeats Confederates at Shiloh in North and Farragut captures New Orleans in South
1863 July Lee's second invasion of North is defeated at Gettysburg in Pennsylvania, spelling beginning of end for Confederacy
1863 May-July Grant takes Union army down Mississippi and captures Confederate stronghold of Vicksburg, cutting South in two
1864 July-Dec Sherman invades Georgia and burns Atlanta - his 'march to the sea' bisects South again
1864 Grant wears down Lee's reserves and besieges Richmond
1865 Sherman invades Carolinas while Grant drives Confederates from Richmond
1865 April Lee surrenders at Appomattox


Source: History Channel


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the draft [message #23398] Mon, 02 June 2003 10:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
K9Trooper is currently offline  K9Trooper
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March 3, 1963 - The U.S. Congress enacts a draft, affecting male citizens aged 20 to 45.

Was this a bad use of the draft Duke? :rolleyes: To free people enslaved.
You said no good ever came out of the draft. Well tell that to millions of African-Americans out there.


R.I.P. TreyD. You will be missed, but not forgotten.
the draft [message #23452] Mon, 02 June 2003 17:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
anort893
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Quote:

The Confederacy had one main advantage
it was the world's main supplier of cotton



Actually, the Confederacy's main advantage was the amount of military genius they had working for their side(Lee, Forrest, etc.) and the Unions's inablility to find competent leadersheap until much later in the war.


The one, the only
-Anort893
the draft [message #23595] Wed, 04 June 2003 11:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ohmybad is currently offline  ohmybad
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Quote:

Source: History Channel



Did you watch the history channel and take notes? :rolleyes:
the draft [message #23597] Wed, 04 June 2003 11:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
K9Trooper is currently offline  K9Trooper
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ohmybad

Quote:

Source: History Channel



Did you watch the history channel and take notes? :rolleyes:



:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Does it matter? We atleast will provide resources for those that would have doubt.


R.I.P. TreyD. You will be missed, but not forgotten.
the draft [message #23633] Wed, 04 June 2003 16:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sir Phoenixx is currently offline  Sir Phoenixx
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ohmybad

Quote:

Source: History Channel



Did you watch the history channel and take notes? :rolleyes:


Just another futile attempt to start a flame war in another thread. :rolleyes:

There's this little thing called the internet, and it might come as a surprise to you, but most tv channel's have websites.


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the draft [message #23806] Thu, 05 June 2003 16:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ohmybad is currently offline  ohmybad
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I dont want to start a flame war I just thought it was little funny, thats all. Im sorry I got your panties in a bunch. :rolleyes:
the draft [message #23828] Thu, 05 June 2003 18:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sir Phoenixx is currently offline  Sir Phoenixx
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ohmybad

I dont want to start a flame war I just thought it was little funny, thats all. Im sorry I got your panties in a bunch. :rolleyes:

You thought that providing historical evidence from the history channel is funny?

"I'm sorry I got your panties in a bunch.", nice show of your extremely low maturity level, child.


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the draft [message #23866] Fri, 06 June 2003 08:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ohmybad is currently offline  ohmybad
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No, there is nothing wronge with historical evidence from the history channel. If you went to there website thats fine but if you sat there watching and took notes thats a little ahhh...weird and im sorry if I implied that you all did.
the draft [message #23969] Sat, 07 June 2003 11:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Duke of Nukes is currently offline  Duke of Nukes
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Commander

Fort Sumter was a military base in a different country that was being heavily resupplied...as if they were about to attack. The South was MORE justified in attacking that than we were in attacking Iraq.

We started out in Korea and Vietnam in good name...but after some time we were only in there because we didn't want Communism to spread...not because we wanted to help them.


I dont care if you write me a letter
I dont care what you say to me no more
All I got is trash left at my door
What you have dont worry me, worry me now more
- Calvin Baty, Craving Theo

What have I become?
My sweetest friend
Everyone I know
Goes away in the end
You could have it all
My empire of dirt
I will let you down
I will make you hurt
- Trent Reznor, NIN
the draft [message #24419] Wed, 11 June 2003 08:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
KIRBY098 is currently offline  KIRBY098
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Duke of Nukes

Fort Sumter was a military base in a different country that was being heavily resupplied...as if they were about to attack.



Incorrect again.

http://www.tulane.edu/~latner/InitialProb/Mar5.html


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the draft [message #24442] Wed, 11 June 2003 13:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Duke of Nukes is currently offline  Duke of Nukes
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Commander

Fort Sumter was being heavily reinforced...that's common knowledge. but even if I'm wrong as you say...then the South still felt like they were just making a "pre emptive strike"

I dont care if you write me a letter
I dont care what you say to me no more
All I got is trash left at my door
What you have dont worry me, worry me now more
- Calvin Baty, Craving Theo

What have I become?
My sweetest friend
Everyone I know
Goes away in the end
You could have it all
My empire of dirt
I will let you down
I will make you hurt
- Trent Reznor, NIN
the draft [message #24452] Wed, 11 June 2003 14:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
K9Trooper is currently offline  K9Trooper
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Duke of Nukes

Fort Sumter was being heavily reinforced...that's common knowledge. but even if I'm wrong as you say...then the South still felt like they were just making a "pre emptive strike"


Here is a little analogy for you Duke.

The South viewed the North as a threat to their security, so they attack the fort... Right? And you justify that unprovoked attack. Remember the North didn't fire the first shot. Don't start rewriting history now...

Well the same can be said about the Iraqi war.
The US saw Iraq as a threat to our security and the world. So we attacked.
Yet you say it is wrong. Why is that? Don't give the old "They are on the otherside of the world" line. Terrorism has no borders anymore.


R.I.P. TreyD. You will be missed, but not forgotten.
the draft [message #24454] Wed, 11 June 2003 14:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
K9Trooper is currently offline  K9Trooper
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K9Trooper

March 3, 1963 - The U.S. Congress enacts a draft, affecting male citizens aged 20 to 45.

Was this a bad use of the draft Duke? :rolleyes: To free people enslaved.
You said no good ever came out of the draft. Well tell that to millions of African-Americans out there.


Duke, you still didn't answer this one.


R.I.P. TreyD. You will be missed, but not forgotten.
the draft [message #24632] Thu, 12 June 2003 23:29 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Duke of Nukes is currently offline  Duke of Nukes
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Commander

if I'm the idiot that thinks Vietnam is one country...then you're the idiot that thinks the civil war happened in the 1960s :rolleyes:

you said the South was wrong but we were right...you call me a hypocrite...but seriously. If we were right in making a pre emptive strike in Iraq...why wasn't the south right in making a pre emptive strike. I mean...it's not like the Iraqi fort in Virginia was being heavily reinforced or anything


I dont care if you write me a letter
I dont care what you say to me no more
All I got is trash left at my door
What you have dont worry me, worry me now more
- Calvin Baty, Craving Theo

What have I become?
My sweetest friend
Everyone I know
Goes away in the end
You could have it all
My empire of dirt
I will let you down
I will make you hurt
- Trent Reznor, NIN
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