Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » This is how we treat child-killing criminals
| This is how we treat child-killing criminals [message #214288] |
Mon, 21 August 2006 06:36  |
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Blazer
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Okay, granted that he hasn't been found guilty "yet", this is still seemingly bizzare treatment for someone who is under arrest. Most people don't enjoy this sort of treatment on vacations.
"Before takeoff, Karr took a glass of champagne from a flight attendant and clinked glasses with Spray, who sipped orange juice.
Dinner on board, served on a starched white tablecloth with silverware, was one many passengers would envy. Karr started with a pate, then had a green salad with walnut dressing. The main course was fried king prawn with steamed rice and broccoli, followed by a slice of Valrhona chocolate cake for dessertKarr drank a beer, crushing the can with his hands when it was empty, then moved on to a glass of French chardonnay with his main course.
He later dined on roast duck with soy sauce and yellow noodles, and for his third meal quickly ate a piece of pizza served with chocolates and a bottle of Evian....
Also during the flight, Karr flipped through the movie channels and watched "The Last Samurai" starring Tom Cruise. He also dozed on and off..."
I just have to think, if people were treated a bit more harshly - (not inhumane, but at least in such a way so that they know they are in deep shit) maybe, just maybe people would think twice before commiting crimes.
[Updated on: Mon, 21 August 2006 06:39] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: This is how we treat child-killing criminals [message #214293 is a reply to message #214288] |
Mon, 21 August 2006 07:01  |
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Goztow
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Why wouldn't u become a criminal? The prisons are nice hotels and you can live on cost of the state. Moreover, where I live there is no more death penalty. Worst you can get is life emprissonment. After 1/3rd of your time, you could get free though for "good behavior".
If I didn't have a house to live in nor a buck to buy some bread, I'd know what to do!
As for big criminals: what Blazer said...
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| Re: This is how we treat child-killing criminals [message #214305 is a reply to message #214298] |
Mon, 21 August 2006 09:24 |
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| warranto wrote on Mon, 21 August 2006 10:33 |
Although they are taking it to a bit of an extreme, there is one thing that should be mentioned. He's been arrested on suspicion of things, no actual charges have been laid. They are on dangerous ground, as you can only hold somone for so long before you must charge him with something. It wouldn't surprise me if this treatment is a "sucking-up" measure to ensure his "cooperation" continues.
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That's incredibly stupid, though. "Hey, we'll suck your dick and coddle your balls if you promise to cooperate." He's not guaranteed to help out and be cooperative, so why would they do something like that? It's just another bullshit fallacy in our system.
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| Re: This is how we treat child-killing criminals [message #214316 is a reply to message #214288] |
Mon, 21 August 2006 12:12 |
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| AP |
DENVER - Authorities probably had a very good reason for allowing JonBenet Ramsey murder suspect John Mark Karr to live it up on the 15-hour flight to the United States, legal experts say — they wanted him to talk.
Denver attorney Larry Pozner, past president of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers, said the royal treatment during Sunday's journey — king prawns, champagne, French wine — was "a brilliant move."
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Not that I'm surprised, but I don't see how this is going to get him to talk. I'd allow myself to be pampered, and then I wouldn't talk.
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| Re: This is how we treat child-killing criminals [message #214340 is a reply to message #214288] |
Mon, 21 August 2006 14:02 |
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Hydra
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The system works well for cases against first-time offenders who maintain their innocence. What outrages me is the treatment it often gives for repeat offenders and those who openly confess their crimes.
You older folks might remember a guy named Ray Donovan, the Secretary of Labor for the Reagan administration. He is famous for asking the question, "Where do I go to get my reputation back?" to a swarm of news reporters outside the courthouse where he was acquitted of all charges of racketeering, bribery, and perjury, (if I remember correctly).
Even before the judge could hand him his official acquittal, even before the trial ever took place, he was already found guilty in the eyes of the media. Even without any evidence whatsoever, the media destroyed his public image and reputation.
In his case, he maintained his innocence and had been convicted of no previous high crimes; though he was considered "innocent until proven guilty" by the law, the media felt differently.
(/me wonders if I explained all that clearly enough.... I guess I'll find out....)
I feel it should be somehow different for repeat offenders and "first-time confessers." For someone who had already been tried, convicted, and released (after serving their sentence) for a violent felony like assault or armed robbery, they should not receive the same benefit of the doubt from the law since they already have a violent past (note: I do not know that much about law in general, but something tells me that something like this might already exist; it's only logical that it would, anyway).
Same should go for people who openly confess to crimes, like this guy right here. Why should he receive any special treatment when he's already confessed to murdering a child? This should be an open-and-shut case. Cage him up on the flight over, Then sit him in a prison cell with someone who will "love" him the way he, apparently, WANTS to be "loved." I can understand why they would treat people who openly confess to crimes a little differently--to encourage other criminals to save the cops the hassle of tracking them down and turn themselves in--but frickin' champagne? That's just going overboard right there.
Warranto: Why do you think he would confess to it if he didn't actually DO it? Cover someone else's ass, or could it just be insanity?
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[Updated on: Mon, 21 August 2006 14:05] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: This is how we treat child-killing criminals [message #214342 is a reply to message #214340] |
Mon, 21 August 2006 14:22 |
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warranto
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| Hydra wrote on Mon, 21 August 2006 15:02 |
Warranto: Why do you think he would confess to it if he didn't actually DO it? Cover someone else's ass, or could it just be insanity?
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Who knows. Perhaps something wasn't going as planned, and he needed an out? Or, perhaps he did do it, but thinks he can beat the system? Or, perhaps he is covering for someone else, and was paid off? Or, perhaps he is just crazy?
Too many possibilities, huh? All of it is possible until a judgment is reached.
Of course, whether or not he did it, his story is so full of holes right now, it's quite likely that in the case's current state, he'd get off on the factor of reasonable doubt.
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| Re: This is how we treat child-killing criminals [message #214412 is a reply to message #214288] |
Mon, 21 August 2006 18:35 |
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Crimson
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The more I read about the case, the more I wonder if perhaps Karr was paid by the Ramseys to kill their daughter. As repayment for his cooperation, they did their best to thoroughly fuck up the crime scene evidence. I haven't completely worked this theory out, though.
I'm the bawss.
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| Re: This is how we treat child-killing criminals [message #214414 is a reply to message #214288] |
Mon, 21 August 2006 19:00 |
msgtpain
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The only thing I see in this is that three high-profile people accompanied Karr back to the US. I seriously doubt that those three people are going to be flying coach from Thailand; and I doubt that if you're bringing a murder suspect back to the US, you're going to just throw him in the back of the plane, he had to sit with those three people.
Karr benifited, sure.. Hopefully we can just consider it his "last meal".
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| Re: This is how we treat child-killing criminals [message #214789 is a reply to message #214288] |
Wed, 23 August 2006 21:15 |
mision08
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| Goztow wrote on Mon, 21 August 2006 09:01 |
Why wouldn't u become a criminal? The prisons are nice hotels and you can live on cost of the state. Moreover, where I live there is no more death penalty. Worst you can get is life imprisonment. After 1/3rd of your time, you could get free though for "good behavior".
If I didn't have a house to live in nor a buck to buy some bread, I'd know what to do!
As for big criminals: what Blazer said...
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Because of the tossed-salad man from the HBO jail special.
He was not under arrest. He was not being extradited. He was a passenger on a plane with much media coverage til he landed in the US. While I hope and believe he will get his due. I can understand the law enforcement having their jurisdictions, or lack there of.
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[Updated on: Wed, 23 August 2006 21:34] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: This is how we treat child-killing criminals [message #214858 is a reply to message #214414] |
Thu, 24 August 2006 07:01 |
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| msgtpain wrote on Mon, 21 August 2006 22:00 |
The only thing I see in this is that three high-profile people accompanied Karr back to the US. I seriously doubt that those three people are going to be flying coach from Thailand; and I doubt that if you're bringing a murder suspect back to the US, you're going to just throw him in the back of the plane, he had to sit with those three people.
Karr benifited, sure.. Hopefully we can just consider it his "last meal".
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So sitting in first class means he's entitled to a meal that's better than what most Americans eat on a daily basis?
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| Re: This is how we treat child-killing criminals [message #214860 is a reply to message #214288] |
Thu, 24 August 2006 07:14 |
msgtpain
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Where does "entitled" fit in to any of this? It's what the airline was serving in first class.. were you under the impression that they brought it on special for him?
If I go to a party and they are serving filet mignon, then just by being there, I am "entitled" to eat it.. if that's the way you want to look at it.
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| Re: This is how we treat child-killing criminals [message #214913 is a reply to message #214288] |
Thu, 24 August 2006 10:55 |
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Blazer
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msgtpain is right. The solution to this is that criminals, people under arrest, people being extradited,etc..should not be relocated using public transportation. I honestly wouldn't want some guy (just speaking in general) that was essentially being brought to his place of death sitting anywhere near me or people that I care about...who knows what someone like that would do in whatever their state of mind is.
It's a bit ironic that airports are currently racially profiling people - if you even look muslim you get singled out because you "might" have some evil agenda...yet we transport known murderers etc mixed right in with everyone else. Sure they have armed guards, but really this just means you have a dangerous person that has potential to arm himself by attacking his guard.
They should just transport these folks in a military or federal/state owned planes...not sure if that is cheaper or not, but if they aren't eating lobster and toasting champagne during the flight maybe it evens out 
[Updated on: Fri, 25 August 2006 04:59] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: This is how we treat child-killing criminals [message #215056 is a reply to message #214288] |
Fri, 25 August 2006 04:08 |
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YSLMuffins
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MSNBC had an interesting fact file outlining the discrepancies in this guy's confession; personally, I think the guy is just a psycho looking for infamy.
Still, I've looked up info about this case, but I still don't understand why this girl is such a big deal with the media. Was it because it happened 10 years ago? Was it because she was a beauty pageant girl? Was it because her mother died recently? Was it because the parents were the prime suspects for a long time? Facts, facts, facts, but what I don't find is why there are so many facts readily available so easily in the first place.
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