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This will boggle your mind... [message #183846] Tue, 27 December 2005 18:34 Go to next message
U927 is currently offline  U927
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http://www.fullmoon.nu/articles/art.php?id=tal

Thanks to Javaxcx/Carbon-12 for the link.


We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act but a habit. - Aristotle

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Re: This will boggle your mind... [message #183857 is a reply to message #183846] Tue, 27 December 2005 19:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Scythar is currently offline  Scythar
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Very nice text! Goes well along with my personal belief that "God" doesn't have to be something never-understandable.

Logic for the win. Thanks for the read U927 / Java


There's a hole in the sky through which things can fly.
Re: This will boggle your mind... [message #183860 is a reply to message #183846] Tue, 27 December 2005 19:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Scythar is currently offline  Scythar
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I'd like to comment the following:

Quote:

and the point?’

‘at its simplest, "Life Must Go On". My personal motivation is the desire for conversation. Once you’ve achieved my level, you cease to be billions of separate entities and become one ecstatic whole. A single entity that cannot die, however advanced, or perhaps, more accurately, because it is so advanced, will get lonely and even a trifle bored! I seem to be the first. I do not intend to be the last’


He "seems" to be the first? But he doesn't know? He has no idea what the heck made things just exist either, by the looks of it. Hehe. What I would ask if such a thing happened is "Do YOU believe in god?" Very Happy

The text makes "godness" into a hierarchical system where there are many gods, creating new gods and continuing life via evolution, but the question of what made the first god exist and what was before it still exists, it's just pushed back a bit.

Or are we still unable to comprehend that with out current brain? No solution as of yet, unfortunately Sad

Edit: Or maybe it's a quantum thing. You know, maybe god both exists and doesn't exist simultaneously. Would solve all the flamefights! Very Happy


There's a hole in the sky through which things can fly.

[Updated on: Tue, 27 December 2005 19:59]

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Re: This will boggle your mind... [message #183861 is a reply to message #183860] Tue, 27 December 2005 20:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
runewood is currently offline  runewood
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Meh.

"Don't try to be a great man, just be a man. Let history make it's own judgments."

"Maybe its not the destination that matters, but the journey."

"How many people does it take before its wrong? A thousand? Fifty thousand? A million?"

"Im not here to tell you how it is going to end, Im here to tell you how it is going to begin."

"Its not the end or even the beggining of the end, mearly the end of the beggining."

"Logic is the beginning of wisdom; not the end."
Re: This will boggle your mind... [message #183870 is a reply to message #183846] Tue, 27 December 2005 21:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jecht is currently offline  Jecht
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Interesting read. Made some good hypotheses on what God truly is and does. A hypothesis is all I will see that as though.

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/9146/hartyn4.png
Re: This will boggle your mind... [message #183875 is a reply to message #183870] Tue, 27 December 2005 21:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
icedog90 is currently offline  icedog90
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gbull wrote on Tue, 27 December 2005 20:05

Interesting read. Made some good hypotheses on what God truly is and does. A hypothesis is all I will see that as though.


Same.
Re: This will boggle your mind... [message #183892 is a reply to message #183846] Tue, 27 December 2005 22:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hydra is currently offline  Hydra
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That's a hell of a story. That guy's pretty creative, and almost convincing.

Of course, John Titor made himself sound pretty convincing, too. As did Jim Jones.
For your own safety, don't drink the Kool-Aid.


Walter Keith Koester: September 22, 1962 - March 15, 2005
God be with you, Uncle Wally.
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[Updated on: Tue, 27 December 2005 22:55]

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Re: This will boggle your mind... [message #183897 is a reply to message #183846] Tue, 27 December 2005 23:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Javaxcx
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Well, his name being "Harry Stottle" was the dead give away. That is, to anyone who clicked onto the allusion anyway.


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Re: This will boggle your mind... [message #183906 is a reply to message #183846] Wed, 28 December 2005 00:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GDIrish is currently offline  GDIrish
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Aristotle.

Anyways, that was an interesting read. The only problem I find in it is the idea of 'something before God.' From what I've been told previously, God always was, is, and will be.

Who knows. I don't.
Re: This will boggle your mind... [message #183914 is a reply to message #183846] Wed, 28 December 2005 01:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Crimson is currently offline  Crimson
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It didn't "boggle my mind" but it is a nice hypothesis that certainly fits better than most.

I'm the bawss.
Re: This will boggle your mind... [message #183924 is a reply to message #183846] Wed, 28 December 2005 06:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dave Mason is currently offline  Dave Mason
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That's the most interesting thing I've read in months.

As said, it's a logical hypothesis. It didn't convince me to be honest. I myself still don't know what to beleive.


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Re: This will boggle your mind... [message #184079 is a reply to message #183892] Thu, 29 December 2005 19:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rm5248 is currently offline  rm5248
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Hydra wrote on Wed, 28 December 2005 00:37

Of course, John Titor made himself sound pretty convincing, too. As did Jim Jones.
For your own safety, don't drink the Kool-Aid.


Technically, Jon Titor said that a civil war would start in 2005, so if there's going to be a war, it had better start in the next 2 days or that guy's a fucking liar.

About the link, very interesting. Though that guy is probably like Titor, full of crap.


w00t?
Re: This will boggle your mind... [message #184098 is a reply to message #183846] Thu, 29 December 2005 21:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Javaxcx
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There isn't anything to dispute. This is absolutely a fiction. It's as much certain as the Teddy Bear's picnic is a fiction. I am personally surprised that anyone here has taken it beyond that level in supposing it might not be a fiction.

The author intended that the idea of a corporeal "god" be considered, not that Mr. Stottle actually sat down in a train with a middle aged man who claimed to be God. The theory is all well and good if we can buy into the highly improbable notion that this universe regresses into an infinite causal chain, but other then that, this story really shouldn't be taken with a grain of salt.



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[Updated on: Thu, 29 December 2005 21:55]

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Re: This will boggle your mind... [message #184108 is a reply to message #183846] Thu, 29 December 2005 23:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mrpirate is currently offline  mrpirate
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This story reminded me of God's Debris, a book written by Scott Adams (the author of Dilbert).

Re: This will boggle your mind... [message #184405 is a reply to message #183846] Sun, 01 January 2006 10:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oblivion165 is currently offline  Oblivion165
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I find it amazing how he remembered all of it to be later scribbled down....Every Word, ever expression.

Also he used lines from Star Trek: The Next Generation. So we know he is into Sci-Fi. Continuality is a bit off.

He says that (God) Only senses us as a whole, to see our progress.

However god is upto date on events, and common sayings "Slang". He also uses the stereotype of the middle aged white male in casual clothing. Every crazy person you see in the media is a middle aged white male on the Bus or some other common location ranting about mustard or some such.

To finish his article off he puts:


"(If you've enjoyed this, you might like to try my play - Resurrection Part 1 - Primary Species) "


If the author truly thought that he incountered god, then why would he put such a blatant "ad" "defileation" on the bottom of a message from god.

This also espablishes that the author is a writer, a man of words. Someone who writes stories for entertainment. He's not a programmer, programmers of any siginificants are not artist. Look at our very own JonWil, great programmer, but doesnt do anything artistic in the community.

So anyway, thats my breakdown.


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Re: This will boggle your mind... [message #185003 is a reply to message #183846] Sat, 07 January 2006 16:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mrpirate is currently offline  mrpirate
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Re: This will boggle your mind... [message #186795 is a reply to message #184108] Mon, 23 January 2006 14:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
reborn is currently offline  reborn
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mrpirate wrote on Fri, 30 December 2005 01:29

This story reminded me of God's Debris, a book written by Scott Adams (the author of Dilbert).




I read that book on the strength of your post, finding the thread's topic interesting. It started off quite well i thought, but then lost it's way.

I like idea's that challenge people's concept of God. Nice thread. Smile



Re: This will boggle your mind... [message #187271 is a reply to message #183846] Thu, 26 January 2006 17:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ae0nflux is currently offline  Ae0nflux
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Pretty good actually. I'm not sure what I believe in at the moment, but this is a pretty good explanation. Think about it for a second, people came up with the ideas for Judaism, Islam, Christianity, Confisianism, Bhuddism, Jainism, and Hinduism. So why can't this idea be correct?

[Updated on: Thu, 26 January 2006 17:49]

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Re: This will boggle your mind... [message #187276 is a reply to message #187271] Thu, 26 January 2006 18:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NeoSaber is currently offline  NeoSaber
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Ae0nflux wrote on Thu, 26 January 2006 19:48

So why can't this idea be correct?


Well, since you asked...

The idea is premised on the principle that the universe originates in a string of finite creations creating further finites without there being a true creator of any of it. The idea is illogical and self defeating because it attempts to circumvent the idea of an infinite Creator (a.k.a. the Uncaused Cause, a.k.a. God) by saying existence is an infinite chain of finites instead of having an infinite origin. This requires the use of "infinity" to describe existence (the infinite chain), while at the same time trying to claim something infinite (the Uncaused Cause, a.k.a. God) doesn't really exist. By being unable to eliminate infinity from the premise, the story fails to present a real alternative to the concept of a true uncreated Creator.

The "infinite chain" in the scenario is itself an Uncaused Cause. Therefore the chain holds all the properties of "God" and is, by definition, God. This idea can't be possible if it's presenting a view of how the universe exists without God, but requires God to exist anyway for that premise to function. It's a contradiction and it blows the whole concept out of the water.

So that's why it isn't correct. Big Grin


NeoSaber

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Re: This will boggle your mind... [message #187281 is a reply to message #183846] Thu, 26 January 2006 19:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jecht is currently offline  Jecht
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did you confuse yourself?

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/9146/hartyn4.png
Re: This will boggle your mind... [message #187284 is a reply to message #183846] Thu, 26 January 2006 20:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NeoSaber is currently offline  NeoSaber
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Just bored and stirring the pot a bit to see what happens. Big Grin

NeoSaber

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Re: This will boggle your mind... [message #187337 is a reply to message #183846] Fri, 27 January 2006 08:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ae0nflux is currently offline  Ae0nflux
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Lol. That made no sense. One thing that I did get from it though is that it follows church doctrine. God is infinate, nothing created him, but he created the world. And for the hypothesis on the creation of the Universe.. People came up with that. People are not perfect. Who knows? Maybe we will never know how the universe is created. But until we have come up with a better means for descerning the truth, all we can do is hypothesize.
Re: This will boggle your mind... [message #187356 is a reply to message #183846] Fri, 27 January 2006 12:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NeoSaber is currently offline  NeoSaber
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Yeah, I tried to write it in a way that implied I was blurting out several theology texts in one breath. I almost put a *catches breath* in between the two paragraphs. Big Grin

The basis though is that there are only two possibilities for the creation of existence.

1) Everything originates from an infinite source. Something that always existed and was never itself created. This would be "God".

2) There is no infinite source to existence. Everything is finite and if you go back in time far enough you'll find its creation. You can continue going back forever, without ever finding a beginning. This is typically used as the "there is no God" possibility.

My point was mainly that the scenario presented in that story fits primarily under the second possibility (No infinite, supreme creator). However, the second possibility is "flawed" in that it still defines existence with the use of something "infinite", while trying to put forth the idea that nothing infinite exists.


NeoSaber

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Re: This will boggle your mind... [message #187367 is a reply to message #187356] Fri, 27 January 2006 12:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Scythar is currently offline  Scythar
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NeoSaber wrote on Fri, 27 January 2006 14:03


1) Everything originates from an infinite source. Something that always existed and was never itself created. This would be "God".

2) There is no infinite source to existence. Everything is finite and if you go back in time far enough you'll find its creation. You can continue going back forever, without ever finding a beginning. This is typically used as the "there is no God" possibility.


Or

3) Everything could originate from infinite OR finite source, depending on the observer. Like in quantum physics (quantum indeterminacy)

4) Everything originates from BOTH finite AND infinite source.

5) Everything originates from neither finite nor infinite source. Event like this isn't quite possible to imagine with our brain.

6) There could even be other options than just "finite" and "infinite". Again, we cannot understand such a possibility, if there is one.

In my opinion, there's no point trying to "prove" that god exists/doesn't exist. We don't even undestand the basics of the world yet, and each logical explanation one tries to give for either arqument always falls down to:

A: You believe.
B: You don't believe.

And life goes on. Nothing to see here.


There's a hole in the sky through which things can fly.
Re: This will boggle your mind... [message #187375 is a reply to message #183846] Fri, 27 January 2006 12:50 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Ae0nflux is currently offline  Ae0nflux
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Finite, infinite, whatever.. lol what happened to good old big bang theory?

[Updated on: Fri, 27 January 2006 12:50]

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