Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » A path beyond site move
| A path beyond site move [message #183925] |
Wed, 28 December 2005 08:33  |
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SuperFlyingEngi
Messages: 1756
Registered: November 2003
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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Don't forget to remind people why your site got moved; namely, that your server was shut down due to your aptitude for distributing unreleased Reborn content. Really, don't pretend that you made the move as an "upgrade".
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)
"The danger to political dissent is acute where the Government attempts to act under so vague a concept as the power to protect "domestic security." Given the difficulty of defining the domestic security interest, the danger of abuse in acting to protect that interest becomes apparent. --U.S. Supreme Court decision (407 U.S. 297 (1972)
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| Re: RA:APB Site Move [message #183934 is a reply to message #183925] |
Wed, 28 December 2005 11:18  |
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SuperFlyingEngi
Messages: 1756
Registered: November 2003
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General (1 Star) |
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As long as everyone knows you were forcefully removed from the GSI servers.
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)
"The danger to political dissent is acute where the Government attempts to act under so vague a concept as the power to protect "domestic security." Given the difficulty of defining the domestic security interest, the danger of abuse in acting to protect that interest becomes apparent. --U.S. Supreme Court decision (407 U.S. 297 (1972)
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| Re: RA:APB Site Move [message #183940 is a reply to message #183925] |
Wed, 28 December 2005 11:40 |
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SuperFlyingEngi
Messages: 1756
Registered: November 2003
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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You lost your hosting because of actions that were seen as "unethical, insensitive, and illegal" by PCNC management. Not just because of a complaint that was filed. PCNC examined filed complaints and determined that there was merit behind them. How about you look at what they said and then tell me that PCNC still kicked you off their servers merely because of meritless complaints.
http://www.forumplanet.com/planetcnc/topic.asp?fid=4939& tid=1804720
| PCNC |
As of today, Planet Command & Conquer will no longer be hosting the "Red Alert: A Path Beyond" mod (formerly known as "Renegade Alert"). This is a move that I initiated in response to continued and constant abuse by members of the RenAlert team of the intellectual property of the C&C Reborn mod, also hosted at PCNC.
PCNC stands up for our hostees and will not tolerate the abuse of their work, especially not by another of our hostees. Several weeks ago, material from the Reborn mod was posted on the RenAlert forums, endorsed by RenAlert team members, and shortly thereafter mirrorred (hosted) on the RenAlert-PCNC server. The material was removed by GameSpy tech support and the RenAlert team was cautioned by myself and by GameSpy tech support to respect the work of others.
The team's response was not to correct their behaviour but merely to move the abuse off the GameSpy servers. Several days ago, an internal testing version of the Reborn mod was leaked by a departing team member and members of the RenAlert mod took it upon themselves to publish this leak.
In response to this, I delivered an ultimatum to the RenAlert team to stop abusing one of our hostees, to remove the material, and to issue an apology. This ultimatum was callously rejected. The RenAlert site went offline today at 9 AM PDT and the team has been instructed to save any files or databases before the site is deleted in two weeks.
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It is at once both sad and aggravating to kick off an entire project merely because of the intolerably abusive behaviour of members of the project's team. I apologize to the fans of Renegade Alert for taking this necessary measure, but the simple fact of the matter is, whatever your opinion of the team behind Reborn or of the mod itself, it is still unethical, insensitive, and illegal to publish their intellectual property without their permission.
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Oh, and you lost your ModDB profile too, didn't you?
Personally, I think Crimson shouldn't host you either, but that's her business.
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)
"The danger to political dissent is acute where the Government attempts to act under so vague a concept as the power to protect "domestic security." Given the difficulty of defining the domestic security interest, the danger of abuse in acting to protect that interest becomes apparent. --U.S. Supreme Court decision (407 U.S. 297 (1972)
The Liberal Media At Work
An objective look at media partisanship
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| Re: RA:APB Site Move [message #183942 is a reply to message #183925] |
Wed, 28 December 2005 11:52 |
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Aircraftkiller
Messages: 8213
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars) |
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Like your dumbass self knows what actually happened because PC&C posted something about this. Guess what champ, HeXetic isn't the person who knew what was going on and he basically admits it in the thread when Chronojam points out all of the problems Reborn's caused on more than just a single level, like posting their work when their own team member gave it out.
http://www.forumplanet.com/PlanetCNC/topic.asp?fid=4939& tid=1804720&p=1
Read it and actually be informed for once, you imbecile.
We didn't lose our "moddb" profile, both are still there. We're just "banned" due to Retardin giving INtense false complaints; saying we stole their work (Which is entirely untrue since it was literally given to me by their team members over the years) and that we stole their textures and code to use... Which is one of the most insulting things I've ever seen since I would never use one of Retardin's low quality Photoshop filtered textures in anything I ever make, nor would I want that "E!" guy's poorly made scripts for any purpose but distributing Reborn so that everyone can see how shitty it is.
[Updated on: Wed, 28 December 2005 11:54] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: RA:APB Site Move [message #183946 is a reply to message #183925] |
Wed, 28 December 2005 12:16 |
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SuperFlyingEngi
Messages: 1756
Registered: November 2003
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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ACK,
First off, this thread is by no means the "only" source I'm getting my information from. Please.
Now, Chronojam does not actually point out all the problems that Reborn has caused, and your sentence has vague pronoun references.
The simple fact of the matter is you hosted Reborn-created material without their permission in a malicious manner which got you removed from PCNC.
Now, let's talk about ModDB.
Renardin mailed InTenSe! (However you capitalize that) asking that if he could produce evidence as to your leaking of Reborn content, then would Intense remove your mod from ModDB. As far as this whole "proof" thing goes,
http://steppo.andfreeporn.net/misc/rebornrenalertspat.html
There's you talking to Steppo about how ethical it is to leak the Reborn mod. The answer is of course that is entirely unethical, but fortunately you're too naive/stupid to care.
http://www.renegadeforums.com/index.php?t=msg&th=18141&a mp;a mp;start=0&rid=1841
There's you actually leaking the mod.
http://www.renegadeforums.com/index.php?t=msg&th=18144&a mp;a mp;start=0&rid=1841
Please note "credit to Aircraftkiller"
I guess Intense! thought that counted for something. Personally, it doesn't look like a "false complaint" to me. Oh, and I was searching ModDB and I couldn't find your mod listed there. So it seems like you got taken off of ModDB.
| TehSteppo |
"I mean, if you hear that there's a Reborn leak on the internet, and then you post in RenForums "hey, here's a Reborn leak!" then you're pretty much just as guilty of copyright violations as the guy who uploaded it in the first place, assuming it wasn't you"
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Phoenixx, what rules did Renardin break?
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)
"The danger to political dissent is acute where the Government attempts to act under so vague a concept as the power to protect "domestic security." Given the difficulty of defining the domestic security interest, the danger of abuse in acting to protect that interest becomes apparent. --U.S. Supreme Court decision (407 U.S. 297 (1972)
The Liberal Media At Work
An objective look at media partisanship
[Updated on: Wed, 28 December 2005 12:17] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: RA:APB Site Move [message #183963 is a reply to message #183950] |
Wed, 28 December 2005 13:36 |
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SuperFlyingEngi
Messages: 1756
Registered: November 2003
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| Aidoneus wrote on Wed, 28 December 2005 14:31 |
Rules Renardin broke:
| "moddb" |
-conflicts between two members must be kept in private and will not be brought into the public community
-promoting one mod in another mods forum
-threatening posts & harassing posts
-Excessive spam (While this is admitedly not an officially stated rule, I find it hard to believe one cannot be punished for it. I stopped after the third page of the same message.)
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Can you link to evidence of all three charges? I say three because the 4th one is, as you say, not a rule. Thus it could be considered spamming to waste my time with such irrelevance.
| Aidoneus |
Intense! appears to be under the impression that Aircraftkiller stole Renardin's work to use in APB. This is presumably because of Renardin's fairly incomprehensible "English."
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Can you show me where Intense! says this? Oh, and English is not technically Renardin's first language. Duh.
When I said "searching ModDB" that's exactly what I meant. Try finding http://mods.moddb.com/321/, the banned modDB account, using the search function. I couldn't.
| Aidoneus |
The whole fiasco is Renardin's fault. It stems from his inability to control his development team, and looking for someone to blame.
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ACK distributing Renardin's material is Renardin's fault? ACK has a medical disorder where he cannot physically control himself from doing this? Even if that were true, it still WOULD NOT be Renardin's fault. To think otherwise demonstrates an acute lack of sense.
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)
"The danger to political dissent is acute where the Government attempts to act under so vague a concept as the power to protect "domestic security." Given the difficulty of defining the domestic security interest, the danger of abuse in acting to protect that interest becomes apparent. --U.S. Supreme Court decision (407 U.S. 297 (1972)
The Liberal Media At Work
An objective look at media partisanship
[Updated on: Wed, 28 December 2005 13:37] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: RA:APB Site Move [message #183969 is a reply to message #183963] |
Wed, 28 December 2005 14:12 |
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| SuperFlyingEngi wrote on Wed, 28 December 2005 15:36 |
| Aidoneus wrote on Wed, 28 December 2005 14:31 |
Rules Renardin broke:
| "moddb" |
-conflicts between two members must be kept in private and will not be brought into the public community
-promoting one mod in another mods forum
-threatening posts & harassing posts
-Excessive spam (While this is admitedly not an officially stated rule, I find it hard to believe one cannot be punished for it. I stopped after the third page of the same message.)
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Can you link to evidence of all three charges? I say three because the 4th one is, as you say, not a rule. Thus it could be considered spamming to waste my time with such irrelevance.
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http://mods.moddb.com/321/
.:Red Alert: A Path Beyond Modeler:.
E-mail: sirphoenixx@gmail.com
AIM: Sir Phoenixx
ICQ: 339325768
MSN: sirphoenixx@hotmail.com
Yahoo: sirphoenix86
If anyone needs any help with using 3dsmax, or gmax feel free to contact me.
My Gallery: sir-phoenixx.deviantart.com/gallery
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| Re: RA:APB Site Move [message #183980 is a reply to message #183925] |
Wed, 28 December 2005 15:53 |
Grass
Messages: 2
Registered: December 2005
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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| Quote: |
ACK distributing Renardin's material is Renardin's fault? ACK has a medical disorder where he cannot physically control himself from doing this? Even if that were true, it still WOULD NOT be Renardin's fault. To think otherwise demonstrates an acute lack of sense.
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Lets pretend you lead a certain mod. Everything is progressing nicely (not the case at Reborn, but whatever) and one day it is time for an alpha test. You post it on this member only forum, to be sure only your team has access to it. But what happened now! oh noes! you posted it somewhere not secure! A guy took it! oh noes, now everybody has it! What am I going to do now!
Obviously it was your own damn mistake, but are you gonna blame the guy who took it, or be a man and take the blame yourself.. 
| Quote: |
Can you link to evidence of all three charges? I say three because the 4th one is, as you say, not a rule. Thus it could be considered spamming to waste my time with such irrelevance.
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I like how that proof has already been posted multiple times, you even quoted it yourself.
Anyway, nice to see APB is back. If they want you out, who cares, there's always some place better!
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| Re: RA:APB Site Move [message #183992 is a reply to message #183925] |
Wed, 28 December 2005 19:30 |
Chronojam
Messages: 688
Registered: March 2003
Karma: 0
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Unlike anybody else here probably, I have talked to a GSI rep, Hexetic, and INtense! about each issue.
I am probably the only person who knows all the details of everything that happened. SuperFlyingEngi, if you have any questions or want clarification for all your misconceptions, feel free to contact me via AIM.
Actually, to know about the ModDB events, you'd only have to go check the other post where I mocked Kanezor for doubting that ModDB misunderstood Renardin's broken English. In fact I'll link you right here.
http://www.renegadeforums.com/index.php?t=msg&rid=318&am p;th=18141&goto=183473#msg_183473
But let me clarify for you. I know you're slow.
INtense! seriously took Renardin's broken English to mean that we had stolen Reborn content and used it in both a BF2 and a Renegade mod, and put a ban on both before contacting the team after being offline for about four days, unresponsive to PMs and IMs and not showing up on IRC.
He did apologize for not being contactable for so long, for the record.
He did acknowledge that Renardin spammed up our profile and cited it as an offense. In fact, he said if they spammed up another mod's profile that a permanent ban would occur.
So basically, while we were just under investigation as a result of Renardin's craptalk Engrish and temp banned, Reborn is actually on some thin ice and further spamming of either of our profiles (or any other mod's) will result in them being permanently banned.
INtense! told me both of our profiles would be unbanned shortly, just a couple days ago.
Glad I could clear that up for you all, specifically you, SuperFlyingDipshit. By the way, stop giving liberals a bad name on this board by being such a blind moron, it's unfair to me!
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| Re: RA:APB Site Move [message #183995 is a reply to message #183925] |
Wed, 28 December 2005 20:05 |
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SuperFlyingEngi
Messages: 1756
Registered: November 2003
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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Well, fair enough, I'll believe you if your ModDB account is unbanned in a couple days. Your story is, however, inconcurrent with what I've seen.
But seriously, the ModDB account is just a sidetrack to the actual RenAlert Website being shut down by PCNC for actions they believe to be "unethical, insensitive, and illegal". No one seems to be attempting to promote an opinion contrary to the idea that ACK only deserved his website being shut down for unethical actions. So I guess I'm right there.
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)
"The danger to political dissent is acute where the Government attempts to act under so vague a concept as the power to protect "domestic security." Given the difficulty of defining the domestic security interest, the danger of abuse in acting to protect that interest becomes apparent. --U.S. Supreme Court decision (407 U.S. 297 (1972)
The Liberal Media At Work
An objective look at media partisanship
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| Re: RA:APB Site Move [message #183998 is a reply to message #183925] |
Wed, 28 December 2005 20:41 |
Chronojam
Messages: 688
Registered: March 2003
Karma: 0
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Would you like his contact information so you can verify this? I wouldn't mind providing it, it's available at moddb anyways if you don't want to wait for me to give it to you.
What Aircraftkiller did may have been "unethical, insensitive, and illegal" although proving any of that is going to be difficult; he didn't steal a kid or rip off copyrighted source code or lie about what things were or how far Reborn had progressed, come on. However, I'd say the site's my business, and the team's.
Aircraftkiller does what Aircraftkiller wants to do. I'm not going to control his actions or get involved in his personal life where I'm not interested in involving myself, and he does not involve any members of the team in situations where they do not want to be involved.
A few things on the PCNC news post: The team itself never recieved any contact from PCNC, and I only saw the message they sent to Aircraftkiller myself last night; there's no chance in hell Aircraftkiller would just suddenly play nice with Reborn, there's been too much back-and-forth over the *years* for that; I removed the supposedly-leaked content as soon as I was contacted as the site's manager and as a team representative (it wasn't an involuntary act done shadily by a GSI tech in the middle of the night or anything) and then I talked to Renardin about it to determine the truth about the content of the files the claimed were leaked; Aircraftkiller actually tried to find out if the team would be punished for *his* actions just-in-case but was under the impression that as long as nothing was hosted by us, the team, on GSI and as long as we, the team, didn't post about it all over a GSI page, that the team shouldn't have to suffer any consequences: because, after all, Aircraftkiller doesn't want get the team in trouble because of his own actions, and was trying to be somewhat responsible about his "exp0sing" of Reborn's lies about having 73% of all content done / ingame / whatever.
Just a quick question: unless he actually showed everybody this version of Reborn alleged to be a month old, would you have believed him when he told you that Reborn really wasn't really over 70% complete? No, you'd just dismiss it as his usual ranting and cite lack of evidence probably; or am I wrong about that?
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| Re: RA:APB Site Move [message #184015 is a reply to message #183925] |
Thu, 29 December 2005 03:06 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9717
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 12
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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I'm a bit of a phylosophical guy... This looks like the guy who shoots the burglar that is lifting his shop. The one lifting the shop does a crime and the reaction on this is also a crime (here in Belgium, self defence can only be justified if a person is in danger, not if property is in danger). Often the shop owner would get worse punishment than the shop lifter (that's how it works here, it's pretty ridiculous) as he did harm to a person. That beside.
Not pointing in any directions to what should happen then to both these persons, just making a metaphor.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: RA:APB Site Move [message #184017 is a reply to message #183925] |
Thu, 29 December 2005 05:29 |
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Actually, the metaphor should be more like this:
A (former) employee of Renardin's sneaks into his store, takes a box of private stuff, and gets away. Aircraftkiller takes photographs of this stuff, sits the box on a table, and tapes the photographs and an advertisement to come look in the box on boards and sits the signs in a public place. Renardin then randomly comes in and shoots Aircraftkiller.
That would be more accurate.
.:Red Alert: A Path Beyond Modeler:.
E-mail: sirphoenixx@gmail.com
AIM: Sir Phoenixx
ICQ: 339325768
MSN: sirphoenixx@hotmail.com
Yahoo: sirphoenix86
If anyone needs any help with using 3dsmax, or gmax feel free to contact me.
My Gallery: sir-phoenixx.deviantart.com/gallery
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| Re: RA:APB Site Move [message #184134 is a reply to message #183998] |
Fri, 30 December 2005 05:03 |
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DreamWraith
Messages: 130
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 0
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| Chronojam wrote on Wed, 28 December 2005 21:41 |
Just a quick question: unless he actually showed everybody this version of Reborn alleged to be a month old, would you have believed him when he told you that Reborn really wasn't really over 70% complete? No, you'd just dismiss it as his usual ranting and cite lack of evidence probably; or am I wrong about that?
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While i won't disagree with you, I don't see why it even fucking matters. People can decide for themselves plain enough whether or not it is worth their while to continue following reborn. Honestly it is almost as if he is insecure or something, which, to me, makes no sense.
Does it matter that approximate numbers given as a judge of reborn progress, by reborn, were inaccurate? Not really. Does it matter that Reborn, as of yet, does not have anything worth playing available to the public? Not really.
I can't really find ANY logical reason behind doing it, even if one considers the act completely and totally ethical. From this point of view, it just looks like a big waste of time, and a big stunt trying to give a bad name to a group whose name is already synonymous with "suckage" around here.
In the end, it really accomplished nothing. Those who hate reborn still hate it. Those who were interested are STILL interested.
It just simply wasted EVERYONES time, even his. I know if i were in his shoes (which im not, nor will i ever be), then i would much rather either work on my mod, or spend time with my wife and kids.
I know people have already said this a couple of times, in various ways, and so in some sense I am beating a dead cat. And i also hold no illusions that this is going to make anyone change how they act. I am merely pointing out how futile and pointless it all seems to be. Surely all the time spent trying to degrade reborn's image has wasted time that could have been spent getting that new map done for RenAlert, or working on APB for BF2.
[Updated on: Fri, 30 December 2005 05:04] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: A path beyond site move [message #184258 is a reply to message #183925] |
Sat, 31 December 2005 03:24 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7427
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars)
ADMINISTRATOR |
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It's not PCNC or anyone else's position to say whether what ACK did was illegal. Only a judge can decide that. Personally, I just don't see how Renardin can submit a little form on some site and say he has a copyright, especially when half of what he appears to be copyrighting is EA's intellectual property to begin with.
I had actually offered to host RenAlert several months ago when their hosting was down more than it was up. Seeing as how I already pay for the RenAlert domains, I don't see how it's much of a big deal to put their site on one of my servers.
What it comes down to is that I'm not choosing a side. I have always enjoyed ACK's work on Renegade and have always been a fan of the RenAlert mod. And so long as it's being worked on or discussed, I will do what I can to help out.
Say I'm biased? Well, guess what? I also host the #reborn channel on my IRC network and I extend to them all the hospitality of any other channel on the network and they haven't complained.
I'm the bawss.
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