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Refresher course on lag and its causes [message #165764] Mon, 08 August 2005 12:33 Go to next message
Crimson is currently offline  Crimson
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There are four factors of lag. If you don't know this already (most do know), press F8 or ~ and type "fps" and press enter. Your FPS, SFPS, KBPS, and PING will appear on the screen.

FPS: A product of your own system. A combination of processor, RAM, and Video card. When there are more players in the game, there are more people to keep track of and even if your modem is downloading enough information, your computer still has to process it, store it in RAM, and your video card has to draw the screen.

Most players will find 20FPS or higher playable for Renegade. If you have an nVidia card, you'll want to download nvRefresh Tool at http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=1457 to increase your refresh rate in-game to 85 which will also move your FPS's maximum to 85.

SFPS: This is strictly a product of the server. The Renegade FDS has a maximum FPS of 60 though you will sometimes see 61 and 62. When there are a lot of players and vehicles, this number can drop, depending on the power of the system running the game. If it's a dedicated server (most are) the RAM and CPU are the only factors. The FDS generates text only so the video card isn't a factor.

KBPS: This is a huge indicator of lag. This can be caused by the server OR the player. It's an indicator of how much information you are receiving from the server. If you don't receive enough updates from the server, you and other players will lag. You will "ice-skate" and players will run into walls, then warp back into their right location.

Causes of KBPS lag:
- The server isn't configured to send enough bandwidth out - Edit server.ini to either auto-detect or use a fixed amount high enough. A 24 player server uses about 2300 kbps on average.
- The server can't send enough data. Example, my cable modem at home is only allowed to send out 256 kbps. If I try to host 24 players at home, I won't be able to send out the 2300 that you need and you will warp.
- WOL sucks and your bandwidth capability was auto-detected too low. Solutions: On the screen where it says "Quick Match" / "Advanced Game Listings", "Chat", move your mouse to the left and pick "My Information". Set your connection to something matching what you have instead of auto-detect. Usually this will stop any problems you have and your KBPS will be sufficient.
--- Or, you can manually set your bandwidth budget in-game. Press F8 or ~ and type "sbbo <number>" where <number> is your bandwidth download capability. To find your best number, do this:
* Go to http://www.dslreports.com/stest
* Choose a location and follow the instructions to test your line speed.
* Your results will read something like this (yours will probably be a lot less because I was at work when I ran this):
Your download speed : 5610362 bps, or 5610 kbps.
A 684.8 KB/sec transfer rate.
* The "bps" number is theoretically your maximum download rate. Remove the last digit and round it to a nice even number (I would use 550000 on my results). This is your optimum bandwidth setting. Press F8 or ~, type "sbbo 550000" and press Enter. If your KBPS was too low before, you might see the KBPS increase each second up to the amount the server can send you.
--- Just like a server, if you have a limit on your kbps (like 56k modem), you won't be able to pull down the necessary bandwidth for a lag-free game.

Now that you know this, you can now understand why 56k people don't lag a server. When you connect to the server, you tell it "I can handle 150000 kbps so lay it on me" and the server says "ok dude". It puts together 150000 kb per second and sends it to you. The 56k guy comes on and he says "Go easy on me I can only get 32000 kbps" and the server says "ok dude". So the server puts together 32000 kb per second and sends it to him. The server doesn't have to wait for the 56k guy's updates before you are sent yours. He might warp on your screen as his updates come in late, but he won't make everyone lag, and he won't make you lag. You and the server deal with your lag independently of the other players.

PING: Ping is a pretty easy factor. Rarely is ping lag caused by you OR the server. It's usually some router between you and the server that's busy. Most players won't notice ping lag until it's about 300+. High ping is sometimes caused when your little brother is leeching on Kazaa and taking all your bandwidth, and could be caused by the server being too busy to respond to pings (which usually means the SFPS is extremely low as well). Determining the cause of ping lag is beyond the scope of this post, and usually there's nothing you can do except find another server to play on.

I hope this helps you understand lag and stop blaming it on the host when it's not warranted.


I'm the bawss.

[Updated on: Wed, 10 August 2005 02:20]

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Re: Refresher course on lag and its causes [message #165776 is a reply to message #165764] Mon, 08 August 2005 14:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dave Mason is currently offline  Dave Mason
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Well said. Nothing irritates me more on Renegade than people whinging that "those n00b 56kers are lagg1ng t3h server".

This should be a sticky. Maybe in tech support too for people who complain about lag (forgive me if it is already there I havn't been to that forum yet).

Anyway, what possessed you to write this? Was somebody complaining about lag and blaming it on you?


www.myspace.com/midas

[Updated on: Mon, 08 August 2005 14:14]

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Re: Refresher course on lag and its causes [message #165777 is a reply to message #165764] Mon, 08 August 2005 14:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Crimson is currently offline  Crimson
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I was looking for an old post and came across it, so I decided to update and repost it.

I'm the bawss.
Re: Refresher course on lag and its causes [message #165780 is a reply to message #165776] Mon, 08 August 2005 15:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Aprime
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DJM wrote on Mon, 08 August 2005 17:14

Well said. Nothing irritates me more on Renegade than people whinging that "those n00b 56kers are lagg1ng t3h server".


I thought they actually did back a few years ago because of the shared lag and performance in games like Red Alert 2 and Tiberian Sun, but then I found out it wasn't the case in Renegade.


FUCK
Re: Refresher course on lag and its causes [message #165781 is a reply to message #165764] Mon, 08 August 2005 15:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
danpaul88 is currently offline  danpaul88
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actually ren has no limit on your max FPS...I changed my monitors refresh rate from 60 to 70 and my FPS in renegade also went up to 70...although it also increased my SFPS

*Edit: Didn't read the part about FDS only*


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[Updated on: Mon, 08 August 2005 15:56]

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Re: Refresher course on lag and its causes [message #165788 is a reply to message #165764] Mon, 08 August 2005 15:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Renx is currently offline  Renx
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Dedicated servers have a limit of 60FPS. Non-dedicated servers have the same FPS as the whoever is hosting it.

~Canucck

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Blazer

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Re: Refresher course on lag and its causes [message #165789 is a reply to message #165764] Mon, 08 August 2005 15:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
danpaul88 is currently offline  danpaul88
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Oh rite, I should read things more carefully Huh

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icon4.gif  Re: Refresher course on lag and its causes [message #165891 is a reply to message #165764] Tue, 09 August 2005 13:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
terminator 101 is currently offline  terminator 101
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Crimson wrote on Mon, 08 August 2005 15:33

Most players will find 20FPS or higher playable for Renegade. If you have an nVidia card, you'll want to download nvRefresh Tool at http://www.nvrt.org/ to increase your refresh rate in-game to 85 which will also move your FPS's maximum to 85.


Where on that website is a dowload link for the nvRefresh Tool? I don't see one.


"It is time you saw the future, while you still have human eyes"

Cheaters only Cheat themselves!
so
Hasta la vista, baby!
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[Updated on: Tue, 09 August 2005 13:13]

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Re: Refresher course on lag and its causes [message #165927 is a reply to message #165764] Tue, 09 August 2005 20:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Renx is currently offline  Renx
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Looks like the domain expired.

~Canucck

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Blazer

...RG made me ugly
Re: Refresher course on lag and its causes [message #165932 is a reply to message #165764] Tue, 09 August 2005 23:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kanezor is currently offline  Kanezor
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Crimson wrote on Mon, 08 August 2005 13:33

56k people don't lag a server.

I just can't help but reiterate that. Every time I see someone say something like that, I have to keep myself from going on and on about the exact things you've already said in your post. I even wrote a small document months ago explaining the difference between latency (ping) and bandwidth, which is a source of another common confusion.

http://linkware.clan-mac.com/kanebot/misc/bandwidthvslatency .txt


---
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Re: Refresher course on lag and its causes [message #165933 is a reply to message #165764] Tue, 09 August 2005 23:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goztow is currently offline  Goztow
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Can I mirror this?

You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
Re: Refresher course on lag and its causes [message #165939 is a reply to message #165764] Wed, 10 August 2005 02:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Crimson is currently offline  Crimson
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http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=1457

I should have checked the link, sorry.

Yes, you can mirror this. It serves all of us for people to understand this.


I'm the bawss.
Re: Refresher course on lag and its causes [message #166001 is a reply to message #165764] Wed, 10 August 2005 19:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
icedog90 is currently offline  icedog90
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Crimson wrote on Mon, 08 August 2005 14:33

Most players will find 20FPS or higher playable for Renegade. If you have an nVidia card, you'll want to download nvRefresh Tool at http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=1457 to increase your refresh rate in-game to 85 which will also move your FPS's maximum to 85.


Or better yet, just disable vertical sync and your FPS reaches its actual maximum (usually above 100 if your computer doesn't suck). However, it's impossible to notice the difference, so the only point in doing that is to show off to your friends, which is also completely useless.

[Updated on: Wed, 10 August 2005 19:06]

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icon9.gif  Re: Refresher course on lag and its causes [message #166056 is a reply to message #165939] Thu, 11 August 2005 14:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
terminator 101 is currently offline  terminator 101
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Crimson wrote on Wed, 10 August 2005 05:19

http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=1457

I should have checked the link, sorry.

Yes, you can mirror this. It serves all of us for people to understand this.


It is only for 2000/XP Sad

Oh well. Then I suppose it is not needed for Win 98.


"It is time you saw the future, while you still have human eyes"

Cheaters only Cheat themselves!
so
Hasta la vista, baby!
http://gamercards.exophase.com/6390.png
Re: Refresher course on lag and its causes [message #166058 is a reply to message #165764] Thu, 11 August 2005 15:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dave Anderson is currently offline  Dave Anderson
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I got that NvRefresh tool...but I get an error and it will not run. There is nothing in the help about it but I get a "No compatible Detonator version found". Is there a way around this? Also I have tons of Windows services turned off so is there a certain one that needs to be on?

David Anderson
Founder, Software Consultant
DCOM Productions
Microsoft Partner (MSP)
Re: Refresher course on lag and its causes [message #166073 is a reply to message #165764] Thu, 11 August 2005 18:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mrpirate is currently offline  mrpirate
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You have an ATI video card, genius.
Re: Refresher course on lag and its causes [message #166085 is a reply to message #165764] Thu, 11 August 2005 23:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dave Anderson is currently offline  Dave Anderson
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OH...I just figured that out...NV as in Nvidia...OOOPS.

David Anderson
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DCOM Productions
Microsoft Partner (MSP)
Re: Refresher course on lag and its causes [message #166171 is a reply to message #165764] Fri, 12 August 2005 14:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
icedog90 is currently offline  icedog90
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Just take my advice since you have an ATi card, Deadfive.

[Updated on: Wed, 26 October 2005 23:51]

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Re: Refresher course on lag and its causes [message #166187 is a reply to message #165764] Fri, 12 August 2005 15:50 Go to previous message
Dave Anderson is currently offline  Dave Anderson
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I plan to.

David Anderson
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DCOM Productions
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