Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around...
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| As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... [message #130373] |
Sun, 02 January 2005 20:17   |
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Jecht
Messages: 3156
Registered: September 2004
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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of course I knew of 1984, but as I was in a more advanced composition class, and i didnt have to read it, thus I didnt. So i guess being of the more intelligent portion of my class hindered my learning in that department. Anyway, in an attempt to stop this topic from spiralling into a Revolution discussion, I wont reply to that Umbra.
however SEAL, 700,000 is just as bad as one million dont you think. Quoting Red Alert: If you kill one, it is a tragedy, if you kill one million, it is a statistic. In this case its a statistic and 700,000 or one million, it is still a personal holocaust that sadaam was running. And Osama did not need funding, your right there Umbra, but how about the Taliban? Running an army of that size for that long while supplying them with explosives and weapons costs a pretty penny on the Black Market where the prices are even more steep.
While I agree that Blockading France would not be tolerated by the masses of nations, I also believe they need to be more under control. Because as of now, they have done nothing but try to hinder us when it comes to the war on terror, and allies dont do that. Personally, I think It would be better if the US attempted to drop out of the UN and take Britain, Australia, and the rest of the coalition of the willing with us. If that were possible of course. Also, I think attempting to set up an alliance with China would be a great asset, because all regimes come to a sunset. And to tell you the truth, the next one will be China unless the US toughens up as a nation.
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| As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... [message #130391] |
Sun, 02 January 2005 22:04 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7427
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars)
ADMINISTRATOR |
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How was France backstabbing us? Read about a little thing called the Duelfer report which outlines in detail Millions upon Millions of dollars being fraudulently passed around in defiance of the United Nations' Oil for Food program. Saddam was bribing nations like Russia, Germany, and France with huge sums of money and oil futures contracts in order to get them to defend him on the world stage. Backstabbing.
700,000 people is like 233 September 11th, 2001 attacks... it's like 3 or 4 Indian Ocean Tsunamis (of course I can only estimate since the death count isn't complete)... such a massive loss of life, and they didn't get the "mercy" of being drowned or smashed against a building causing instant death... many/most of these people were TORTURED (real torture, not liberal "omg dogs barking" "torture").
The fact that so many terrorist organizations have sent their men into Iraq to "resist" the US forces PROVES that what we are doing is a noble cause. Why else would they be fighting back so hard if the stakes weren't high against them?
Just so you know, I do not use oil or liberation as my primary rationale for the war in Iraq. I stand with the President's word since the beginning that a liberated Iraq is a step in the right direction towards peace in the Middle East and later on, the world.
However, it's foolish is discount oil as such an invalid reason to go to war. In Phoenix, AZ, we experienced a gas pipeline burst and subsequent closure. Though we had enough reserves in town to support our needs, the possibility of a fuel shortage droves everyone to the pumps to fill their tanks. Two and three hour waits were common. We had to have fuel shipped in from California and Texas in trucks to replenish the supply. People followed the tanker trucks around waiting for them to unload. Before you say oil isn't a good reason to go to war, just think about what would happen without it.
I'm the bawss.
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| As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... [message #130396] |
Sun, 02 January 2005 22:20 |
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| Crimson |
How was France backstabbing us? Read about a little thing called the Duelfer report which outlines in detail Millions upon Millions of dollars being fraudulently passed around in defiance of the United Nations' Oil for Food program. Saddam was bribing nations like Russia, Germany, and France with huge sums of money and oil futures contracts in order to get them to defend him on the world stage. Backstabbing.
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700,000 people is like 233 September 11th, 2001 attacks...
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1. The little thing called the Duelfer report = tool of vengence. (EDIT: Not being serious, but you could easily think so.)
2. Have you been watching South Park lately? :\ (EDIT: Err, I mean, you've watched Team America, right?)
I suck cock and love it... absolutely love it. And I just got banned for being too immature to be allowed to post here.
[Updated on: Mon, 03 January 2005 14:16] Report message to a moderator |
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| As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... [message #130397] |
Sun, 02 January 2005 22:43 |
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Fabian
Messages: 821
Registered: April 2003
Location: Boston, MA
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| Crimson |
700,000 people is like 233 September 11th, 2001 attacks...
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Really?! Oh....wow! And I'm sure you'll have a follow-up post on why 700,000 can be described as "millions" too!! Because...you know...that was my point.
| Crimson |
...not liberal "omg dogs barking" "torture"
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I see you used the word "liberal" as a synonym for "weak" or "gentle." Very mature. God, you people are such mother-conservativers. 
| Gbull |
however SEAL, 700,000 is just as bad as one million dont you think. Quoting Red Alert: If you kill one, it is a tragedy, if you kill one million, it is a statistic. In this case its a statistic and 700,000 or one million...
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That was Stalin, I believe. 700,000 is not just as bad as 1,000,000. In fact, I believe 1,000,000 is about 300,000 lives worse. The point is that the word "millions" was thrown around stupidly.
And another thing...
| cowmisfit |
No reason what so ever besides millions of innocent iraqies killed by saddam , 3000 americans and counting killed because of groups saddam funds and supports
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How are casualties sustained during a war justification for going to war?
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| As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... [message #130401] |
Sun, 02 January 2005 23:16 |
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Hydra
Messages: 827
Registered: September 2003
Location: Atlanta, GA
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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In response to all issues regarding the UN: fuck the UN.
The United States should withdraw all UN funding immediately and officially give it the finger. The United States cannot be a part of an organization that is composed of anti-American countries doing everything they can to hurt the United States. Why, you ask? Because they all want power. Take not only the War on Terror but also the Kyoto Treaty for example. I'm sure you've all heard the great international outcry against the United States for refusing to sign the Kyoto Treaty. The document's effects on the economy of the United States would have been catastrophically adverse, and those were the very reasons cited for our refusal, yet UN diplomats still castigated the United States for refusing to sign the incredibly flawed document.
"Oh no! Can't you see you're killing the environment by not signing this document? Can't you see you'll kill your planet if you refuse to sign? You're going to single-handedly bring about global warming if you don't sign this document!!!"
The Oil-for-Food scandal is another perfect example. The United States is actually being criticized by other countries in the UN for pursuing this $20 billion scandal. No one else really seems to care; the media certainly doesn't, at least.
The United Nations receives the majority of its funding from the United States. It's time to stop letting them bite the hand that feeds them.
| SuperFlyingLiberalTool |
How do you know Saddam killed millions of Iraqis?
No, he really wasn't involved in 9/11. It's funny though how about 80% or something of Bush supporters believe that. You people need to read.
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You really need to stop posting in this subforum for all our sakes.
I honestly think my I.Q. drops a point each time I read anything you write in relation to politics.
Walter Keith Koester: September 22, 1962 - March 15, 2005
God be with you, Uncle Wally.
 (<---New(ish) Prayer Group Forums)
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| As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... [message #130407] |
Mon, 03 January 2005 01:35 |
Spoony_old
Messages: 1105
Registered: December 2004
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| Crimson |
However, it's foolish is discount oil as such an invalid reason to go to war. In Phoenix, AZ, we experienced a gas pipeline burst and subsequent closure. Though we had enough reserves in town to support our needs, the possibility of a fuel shortage droves everyone to the pumps to fill their tanks. Two and three hour waits were common. We had to have fuel shipped in from California and Texas in trucks to replenish the supply. People followed the tanker trucks around waiting for them to unload. Before you say oil isn't a good reason to go to war, just think about what would happen without it.
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It's already been discovered what happens without it.
A couple of years back, a group (quite a small group) of British farmers and truckers got pissed at the Government's endless pushing up of petrol prices (Bear in mind truckers get petrol subsidised, and farmers' tractors use something called "white petrol" or something which is cheaper anyway)
So they took it upon themselves to set up a more-or-less peaceful blockade at the major ports, not letting any tankers through.
Result: the entire fucking country comes to a standstill. That was achieved by a handful of peaceful farmers and truck drivers, remember.
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| As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... [message #130409] |
Mon, 03 January 2005 01:52 |
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Doitle
Messages: 1723
Registered: February 2003
Location: Chicago, IL
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star)
Moderator/Captain |
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Running out of oil would probably cause more deaths than the tsunamis, the war in Iraq, Saddam's torture, 9-11 put together. In fact it could kill every last one. Think total breakdown of society.
We are at a point now where we need oil for survival. If you have an hour ride to work, you now have, what, a 4 hour bike ride to work? 8 hours on foot? It's simply not possible. Millions and Millions are out of work. Most services shut down because the people aren't able to operate and maintain them. Limits on water usage electricity usage natural gas usage. As we approach a complete depletion of oil racketeering and hoarding will settle in, I forsee national guard at all gas stations, ration systems being put into place, freezes on wages and prices, riots, scandals. The poor saying the rich are using all the oil while the rich say the poor use all the oil, class conflict breaks out, we have a sort of Russian Revolution style proleteriet vs. upper class. Arsons, vandalisms on a widespread scale.
Martial Law in place, national guard spread to each city. Curfews for all citizens, checkpoints and mandatory placement into areas, possibly relocation or just denial of travel. People who drive SUV's beaten in the streets a la LA Riots.
This keeps snowballing, government begins to lose control of the country as a whole. Society as we know it pretty much gone after a month. Civilization reduced to nomadic tribes and gangs a la Waterworld, (Minus the water that is) and only the strong survive. The majority of the population are unable to make the conversion and perish due to starvation or violence. Most of the people in this modern age couldn't last very long without electricity, natural gas, fossil fuels and running water. Anarchy ensues, and all the anarchists realize that anarchy sucks and die from starvation or disease.
This scene repeated in other countries to a lesser extent depending on their dependence on fossil fuels. The entire world reduced to 3rd world nations. 3rd world nations are renamed 6th world nations.  Earth makes a big ol frown and we get set back a thousand years and re enter the dark ages, only like... the technology infused dark ages where people wear headbands and live in huts made from parts of cars and aircraft.
Pretty bleak eh? Let's just cross our fingers and hope someone figures out how to burn water soon.
(DISCLAIMER: Yes this is exagerated but not as much as you'd probably think. Running out of Fossil Fuels would be a mondo bad thing and would definately cause the breakdown of society)
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| As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... [message #130415] |
Mon, 03 January 2005 04:44 |
Spoony_old
Messages: 1105
Registered: December 2004
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| cowmisfit |
| SEAL |
How are casualties sustained during a war justification for going to war?
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Please tell me how we were at war on September 10, 2001 please because i'd love to hear that one.
and let me correct myself. I OVER EXAGERATED OKAY I ADMIT IT, but i do belive its MIILLION not MILLIONS.
I do belive it would go into at least a million and + some, if you combine not only all of his own people he's killed over the years, but the operations he's funded and 9/11.
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America's response to 9/11 killed far more innocent bystanders than 9/11 itself, you do realise that? Oh wait... human life is worth more if you're American, isn't it?
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| As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... [message #130417] |
Mon, 03 January 2005 04:58 |
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cowmisfit
Messages: 2035
Registered: May 2003
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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| Spoony |
| cowmisfit |
| SEAL |
How are casualties sustained during a war justification for going to war?
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Please tell me how we were at war on September 10, 2001 please because i'd love to hear that one.
and let me correct myself. I OVER EXAGERATED OKAY I ADMIT IT, but i do belive its MIILLION not MILLIONS.
I do belive it would go into at least a million and + some, if you combine not only all of his own people he's killed over the years, but the operations he's funded and 9/11.
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America's response to 9/11 killed far more innocent bystanders than 9/11 itself, you do realise that? Oh wait... human life is worth more if you're American, isn't it?
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In a broad sense no , every life is the same.
But you don't understand something called defending YOUR nation (i empthezise YOUR becasue you seem to despise YOUR nation)
I've already told you this , ITS CALLED WAR PEOPLE DIE IN WAR GET OVER IT!!! INNOCENT PEOPLE DIE IN WAR AND GUESSS WHAT TOO BAD TO SAD IF THAT HAS TO HAPPEN TO DEFEND MY NATION I DON'T GIVE A RATS ASS.
Its so pointless trying to talk to a left wing , you can't get anything through there OMG LIK CURL UP IN A BALL AND LET THEM HIT YOU CAUSE WE DON"T WANNA HURT NO ONE FEELIN OMG state of mind.
Spoony, after 9/11, were you opposed to entering afganistan ??? (NOT IRAQ, AFGANISTAN.)
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| As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... [message #130421] |
Mon, 03 January 2005 06:00 |
Spoony_old
Messages: 1105
Registered: December 2004
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| cowmisfit |
i empthezise YOUR becasue you seem to despise YOUR nation
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I don't know where you get your ideas from. Must be a pretty weird place. Since you clearly don't have a fucking clue what you're saying, I'd advise you stop making these assumptions about the way I regard my country. I'd be surprised if you even knew what country I live in.
| cowmisfit |
I've already told you this , ITS CALLED WAR PEOPLE DIE IN WAR GET OVER IT!!! INNOCENT PEOPLE DIE IN WAR AND GUESSS WHAT TOO BAD TO SAD IF THAT HAS TO HAPPEN TO DEFEND MY NATION I DON'T GIVE A RATS ASS
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It'd be pretty easy for Bin Laden to say the same thing, wouldn't it?
| cowmisfit |
Its so pointless trying to talk to a left wing , you can't get anything through there OMG LIK CURL UP IN A BALL AND LET THEM HIT YOU CAUSE WE DON"T WANNA HURT NO ONE FEELIN OMG state of mind.
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Firstly I am not left wing, secondly the reason you can't get anything through to me is because you don't actually have anything valid to get through.
| cowmisfit |
Spoony, after 9/11, were you opposed to entering afganistan ??? (NOT IRAQ, AFGANISTAN.)
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Define "entering"? I was in favour of sending in some elite troops to actually find Bin Laden instead of bombing the fuck out of random villages in the vague hope Bin Laden happened to be there, regardless of how many bystanders got in the way.
| =[DT |
=gbull=[L]=]its like talking to a wall eh cow?
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whereas talking to you is like talking to a complete idiot.
No, wait... there's no "like" about it, is there?
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| As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... [message #130422] |
Mon, 03 January 2005 06:04 |
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DaveGMM
Messages: 484
Registered: February 2003
Location: England, UK
Karma: 0
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Commander |
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In a broad sense no , every life is the same.
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INNOCENT PEOPLE DIE IN WAR AND GUESSS WHAT TOO BAD TO SAD IF THAT HAS TO HAPPEN TO DEFEND MY NATION I DON'T GIVE A RATS ASS.
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Polar opposite views in less than three lines... that's got to be a record. This is a classic Yes Minister reply, for those of you that have watched that excellent British piece of comedy. In a "broad" sense indeed.
That's an answer that sounds like a real answer, but is totally devoid of meaning.
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Its so pointless trying to talk to a left wing
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And this is the reason why I don't take anything you say seriously. All you do to try and prove your point is throw the "liberal/left wing commie" crap around.
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I do belive it would go into at least a million and + some, if you combine not only all of his own people he's killed over the years, but the operations he's funded and 9/11
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And if you include all the civililans that the Coalition has killed, I'm sure it'll go into two million.
Oh, and on a related topic:
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We are at a point now where we need oil for survival.
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Well then, we're all doomed.
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| As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... [message #130438] |
Mon, 03 January 2005 09:07 |
Spoony_old
Messages: 1105
Registered: December 2004
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| =[DT |
=gbull=[L]=]whereas you think its the ultimate evil for us to protect our country.
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I think this adequately proves how stupid you are. If you want to actually debate this, then let's. At the moment, you seem intent on spouting absolute garbage instead.
| =[DT |
=gbull=[L]=]Spoony, you claim we dont know where you are from so i'll take that as your not american. If your not american than you dont know how pissed off the true patriots are of 9/11.
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So one act of terrorism warrants another, is that what you're saying?
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| As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... [message #130441] |
Mon, 03 January 2005 09:19 |
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I'm sorry, but defending your country is not terrorism. We were attacked, and are not going to allow that to happen again. We're going after the leaders and supportors of terrorist groups. Now, you may say, the radical Iraqis are defending their country, so we can't call them terrorists, but they're not defending they country. They're commiting suicide while taking out as many "infidels" as possible. Their reasoning to attack the coalition forces is jihad. There are also plenty of Saddam loyalists, but they're all criminals, anyways.
Libertarian Party | The King's Throne | The Soda Shop
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| As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... [message #130454] |
Mon, 03 January 2005 11:23 |
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Not really interesting...just fair.
I don't agree with the CIA training of terroristic actions. I never said I agreed with it. I don't like it, and I never have.
I don't exactly see how they were terrorists. They were resistance fighters. They were organized, and were fighting Germans for their country. They took risks in order to help free their country. That's just a LITTLE different from the radicals we're fighting now. Don't you think?
Libertarian Party | The King's Throne | The Soda Shop
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