Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around...
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| As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... [message #130303] |
Sun, 02 January 2005 15:39   |
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cowmisfit
Messages: 2035
Registered: May 2003
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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Dave once again you don't get it. No reason what so ever besides millions of innocent iraqies killed by saddam , 3000 americans and counting killed because of groups saddam funds and supports, hundreds and probebly thousands of innocent people in isreal and abroad killed by suicide bombing saddam funded and rewarded.
YOur right, NOOOOO FUCKING REASON TO BE IN IRAQ AT ALL What the hell was i thinking.
Spoony just in your last comment
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Yeah, and it was really nice of the USA to wait until they got attacked, wasn't it?
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All you do is question and denounce the actions of your country, why do you hate your nation so much? Is it because the powerful people from the internet will think your cool or something?? I don't get it.
*edit* and dave, we don't kill innocent civilians or use weapons that we KNOW wiill kill an child , you need to re-think your morals and those you think we hold if your gonna say that. Thats just pure ignorance to say we intentually hurt children.
Know what, we woudln't have to even place bombs in the area's were children or innocent people may be killed if the terrorist didn't hide with in them like the cowereds they are. THEY WANT US to come after them and kill innocent people so we look bad, not hard to understand. Its the same concept of them hiding in holy places such as mosq (or how ever its spelled).
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| As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... [message #130306] |
Sun, 02 January 2005 15:42 |
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SuperFlyingEngi
Messages: 1756
Registered: November 2003
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| cowmisfit |
Dave once again you don't get it. No reason what so ever besides millions of innocent iraqies killed by saddam , 3000 americans and counting killed because of groups saddam funds and supports, hundreds and probebly thousands of innocent people in isreal and abroad killed by suicide bombing saddam funded and rewarded.
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How do you know Saddam killed millions of Iraqis?
No, he really wasn't involved in 9/11. It's funny though how about 80% or something of Bush supporters believe that. You people need to read.
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)
"The danger to political dissent is acute where the Government attempts to act under so vague a concept as the power to protect "domestic security." Given the difficulty of defining the domestic security interest, the danger of abuse in acting to protect that interest becomes apparent. --U.S. Supreme Court decision (407 U.S. 297 (1972)
The Liberal Media At Work
An objective look at media partisanship
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| As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... [message #130311] |
Sun, 02 January 2005 15:51 |
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warranto
Messages: 2584
Registered: February 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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| cowmisfit |
Dave once again you don't get it. No reason what so ever besides millions of innocent iraqies killed by saddam , 3000 americans and counting killed because of groups saddam funds and supports, hundreds and probebly thousands of innocent people in isreal and abroad killed by suicide bombing saddam funded and rewarded.
YOur right, NOOOOO FUCKING REASON TO BE IN IRAQ AT ALL What the hell was i thinking.
Spoony just in your last comment
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Yeah, and it was really nice of the USA to wait until they got attacked, wasn't it?
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All you do is question and denounce the actions of your country, why do you hate your nation so much? Is it because the powerful people from the internet will think your cool or something?? I don't get it.
*edit* and dave, we don't kill innocent civilians or use weapons that we KNOW wiill kill an child , you need to re-think your morals and those you think we hold if your gonna say that. Thats just pure ignorance to say we intentually hurt children.
Know what, we woudln't have to even place bombs in the area's were children or innocent people may be killed if the terrorist didn't hide with in them like the cowereds they are. THEY WANT US to come after them and kill innocent people so we look bad, not hard to understand. Its the same concept of them hiding in holy places such as mosq (or how ever its spelled).
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hmm.. I think I missed something.
The only thing Dave mentioned in his last post was that the war was illegal. So.. I don't get why you make things up to try to deminish someone elses stance. That doesn you no good.
Remember people: Legality and reason are two completely seperate things.
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| As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... [message #130313] |
Sun, 02 January 2005 15:53 |
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U927
Messages: 709
Registered: February 2003
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| cowmisfit |
Dave, when did they stab anyone in the back?? RIGHT NOW THEY ARE, your a forigner so i wouldn't expect you to understand this concept with out an argument, but what do you call right now?? There supposed to be our allie, if 3000 of there citizins were killed we'd follow and back them 100% becasue we are there ALLIE, it happens to american and they pretty much say shuv it until we can get something out of it. You can bitch and moan all you want about the french people not hating us, but you can't deny the french goverment hates our goverment and would trully love to see America crumble. Guess what, were not gonna let your nations stop us from defending us, if you can't get the concept of hit before your hit first then die.
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Stop the fuck right there.
First of all, how the hell is not participating in a war, one that was NOT passed through the UN, make you a backstabber? By your logic, let's say my friend wanted to rob a convenience(sp?) store and wanted me to help him. I say no. Does that make me a backstabber?
Also, why the hell would they want to see America, a nation which they helped give birth to, crumble? Are you honestly so right-winged that you think every nation is out to get us and we should attack them first before they attack us? Without France, we wouldn't have been able to supply our militias in the Revolutionary War. Without the assistance of a French general, General Lafayette, Washington would not have been able to assemble raggedy minutemen into the Continental Army. Without the French Navy, we would not have been able to capture General Cornwallis, which ultimately led to the surrender of the British and the annexation of the thirteen colonies from Britain to form the United States.
As for hitting other nations before they hit us, that may be true, but ONLY if they present an imminent and immediate threat to us. Now, when, exactly, did Iraq present a threat to us? You can ramble on about WMDs, but I've yet to see working missile silos that can launch an ICBM at one of our major cities.
You are an embarrasement to Conservatives everywhere. Please, shut the hell up before you make yourself look like more of an ass than you are now.
EDIT: Fixed some typos.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act but a habit. - Aristotle
8-Bit Theatre. The power of evil compels you!
[Updated on: Sun, 02 January 2005 16:02] Report message to a moderator |
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| As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... [message #130320] |
Sun, 02 January 2005 16:08 |
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cowmisfit
Messages: 2035
Registered: May 2003
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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| SuperFlyingEngi |
| cowmisfit |
Dave once again you don't get it. No reason what so ever besides millions of innocent iraqies killed by saddam , 3000 americans and counting killed because of groups saddam funds and supports, hundreds and probebly thousands of innocent people in isreal and abroad killed by suicide bombing saddam funded and rewarded.
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How do you know Saddam killed millions of Iraqis?
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Okay, even you liberals can agree with me here, this is one of the stupidest questions and statements i've ever seen.
Okay, i was thinking of posting pictures, but i'd get banned from teh forums most likely. So i'll just have to try and tell you.
OKAY, we've found the tourcher chambers, we've found the mass graves, we've got the records (Saddam kept records like hitler , very detailed ones at that of most of the people he killed ( i saw video of a ware house were thsee were held on MSNBC show on saddam) , We've got the pictures and video of him killing people, EVEN THE IRAQI CITIZENS SAY THIS IS TRUE , and in a lot of cases that they have had family or freinds that "dissapear" or were held in the tourcher chambers of saddam and never seen again.
That question blows my mind.
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| As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... [message #130321] |
Sun, 02 January 2005 16:09 |
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SuperFlyingEngi
Messages: 1756
Registered: November 2003
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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No, you fool. Not if he killed people. How do you know he killed millions of people? I shouldn't have to italicize that for you.
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)
"The danger to political dissent is acute where the Government attempts to act under so vague a concept as the power to protect "domestic security." Given the difficulty of defining the domestic security interest, the danger of abuse in acting to protect that interest becomes apparent. --U.S. Supreme Court decision (407 U.S. 297 (1972)
The Liberal Media At Work
An objective look at media partisanship
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| As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... [message #130324] |
Sun, 02 January 2005 16:15 |
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cowmisfit
Messages: 2035
Registered: May 2003
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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| warranto |
cowmisfit, since France among others are helping the terrorists, as you say they are, what do you suggest we should do to a country to assists/funds/ etc. terrorists?
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France is an established country , that i have to admit, is quite a big player in the world scene, so we can't just go in and rid the terrorist with bombs and such as we have in Iraq, i know that.
So what do we do.
We wait until we are done or at least have some more funding and troops to spread out after the Afganistan and Iraqi war is over. We then send diplomats to these country's (not just france as theres also north korea and syria, lybia , sadi arabia to deal with as well , france will go after these nations) And demmand OUR inspectors NOT the UN be allowed into the country and have access to all goverment files. We give a dead line, if these demands are not made we begin with a halt and possible a barcade to the nations ports if they have them. We step up spying efforts on the nation if its one like France who we can't just go in and bomb the hell out of, if its not france we threaten force. However not a full scale invasion like we did in iraq (we had a reason to go into iraq because we had 20 years of evidence and reason). I would agree with you for the most part if tommrow we invaded a country like syria and lybia for reasons of supporting terrorist because then i would want proof, but i have the faith in my nation that we would ahve the proof, i just don't have faith in your nations to back us even if we showed it right to all of your faces.
And i'll finish this in a sec, shower time.
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| As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... [message #130325] |
Sun, 02 January 2005 16:15 |
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Jecht
Messages: 3156
Registered: September 2004
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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| SuperFlyingEngi |
How do you know Saddam killed millions of Iraqis?
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Mass graves and attempted Genocide of the Kurds using his Chemical Weapons.
| Umbral_DelaFlare |
First of all, how the hell is not participating in a war, one that was NOT passed through the UN, make you a backstabber? By your logic, let's say my friend wanted to rob a convenience(sp?) store and wanted me to help him. I say no. Does that make me a backstabber?
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No relevance whatsoever. Once again if the law is UN then the law is corrupt as the UN has become corrupt. <---Insert dumbass rebuttle like "Yea, but its still the law" after this post.
| Umbral_DelaFlare |
Also, why the hell would they want to see America, a nation which they helped give birth to, crumble?
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France did help us with our independence, but only to hurt Britain. And to tell you the truth they were late, as Washington had Cornwalis backed into Yorktown as the French began to help with their Navy. Either way, Cornwalis would have been defeated.
| Umbral_DelaFlare |
Now, when, exactly, did Iraq present a threat to us?
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| cowmisfit |
3000 americans and counting killed because of groups saddam funds and supports
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I'm pretty sure cow already answered that.
| Umbral_DelaFlare |
You are an embarrasement to Conservatives everywhere. Please, shut the hell up before you make yourself look like more of an ass than you are now.
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I got news for ya dude, he makes his point clear and all you Lefties do is say: "nope thats wrong". The only Liberal here that actually backs up his statements with clear info is Javacx. All ive seen Spoony and others here do is, well, stuff like this:
| cowmisfit |
THey didn't come to iraq because they had dealings with saddam once again THEY'D LOOSE MONEY , the most important thing in the world to them.| Spoony |
Wow... You really don't know what America's been doing lately, do you?
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or this great statement with no Reference whatsoever:
| cowmisfit |
About reading a non-american text book, i have , im in College Prep European History were we have an Biased left wing text book peice of shit that says were only in Iraq for oil| Spoony |
Biased? Perhaps. Left wing? Certainly. But if you replace "only" with "mainly", it's right.
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| As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... [message #130331] |
Sun, 02 January 2005 16:24 |
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DaveGMM
Messages: 484
Registered: February 2003
Location: England, UK
Karma: 0
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Commander |
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| cowmisfit |
| warranto |
cowmisfit, since France among others are helping the terrorists, as you say they are, what do you suggest we should do to a country to assists/funds/ etc. terrorists?
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France is an established country , that i have to admit, is quite a big player in the world scene, so we can't just go in and rid the terrorist with bombs and such as we have in Iraq, i know that.
So what do we do.
We wait until we are done or at least have some more funding and troops to spread out after the Afganistan and Iraqi war is over. We then send diplomats to these country's (not just france as theres also north korea and syria, lybia , sadi arabia to deal with as well , france will go after these nations) And demmand OUR inspectors NOT the UN be allowed into the country and have access to all goverment files. We give a dead line, if these demands are not made we begin with a halt and possible a barcade to the nations ports if they have them. We step up spying efforts on the nation if its one like France who we can't just go in and bomb the hell out of, if its not france we threaten force. However not a full scale invasion like we did in iraq (we had a reason to go into iraq because we had 20 years of evidence and reason). I would agree with you for the most part if tommrow we invaded a country like syria and lybia for reasons of supporting terrorist because then i would want proof, but i have the faith in my nation that we would ahve the proof, i just don't have faith in your nations to back us even if we showed it right to all of your faces.
And i'll finish this in a sec, shower time.
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1984.
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| As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... [message #130335] |
Sun, 02 January 2005 16:28 |
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Javaxcx
Messages: 1943
Registered: February 2003
Location: Canada, eh?
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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=gbull=[L]=]No relevance whatsoever. Once again if the law is UN then the law is corrupt as the UN has become corrupt. <---Insert dumbass rebuttle like "Yea, but its still the law" after this post.
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By that logic, if any part of a nation or agency is corrupt, its laws are corrupt. Which would blackmail just about every nation, yes, including America, to the same fate you've degraded the U.N. to.
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I'm pretty sure cow already answered that.
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If cowmisfit was referring to Iraq, which I doubt, then that number is wrong on all fronts. I'm better he was PROBABLY referring to the WTC incident. In which case that would not constitute invading Iraq and toppling its standing sovereign government as they had literally nothing to do with it. All that terrorist connections information that is spewwed around is, as far as I've seen and read, circumstantial and does not tie Iraq to the WTC incident.
That is not a threat to America. The information utilized on March 19th, 2003 would not support that allegation and the administration itself couldn't say for certain if Saddam played a role in WTC to tie with this ridiculous allegation you and cowmisfit are making.
I would really like to see what was used to justify the invasion in the first place. Because there was no imminent threat to America whatsoever on March 19th, 2003.
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The only Liberal here that actually backs up his statements with clear info is Javacx.
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I don't agree with you most of the time, but I am certainly not a liberal. You people need to stop assuming that whoever disagrees with you is on the opposite end of the spectrum.
Sniper Extraordinaire
Read the FUD Rules before you come in and make an ass of yourself.
All your base are belong to us.
You have no chance to survive make your time.
[Updated on: Sun, 02 January 2005 16:30] Report message to a moderator |
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| As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... [message #130340] |
Sun, 02 January 2005 16:48 |
Spoony_old
Messages: 1105
Registered: December 2004
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| =[DT |
=gbull=[L]=]
I got news for ya dude, he makes his point clear and all you Lefties do is say: "nope thats wrong". The only Liberal here that actually backs up his statements with clear info is Javacx. All ive seen Spoony and others here do is, well, stuff like this:
| cowmisfit |
THey didn't come to iraq because they had dealings with saddam once again THEY'D LOOSE MONEY , the most important thing in the world to them.| Spoony |
Wow... You really don't know what America's been doing lately, do you?
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or this great statement with no Reference whatsoever:
| cowmisfit |
About reading a non-american text book, i have , im in College Prep European History were we have an Biased left wing text book peice of shit that says were only in Iraq for oil| Spoony |
Biased? Perhaps. Left wing? Certainly. But if you replace "only" with "mainly", it's right.
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Firstly, I am hardly what you would call a "Leftie", but since you would automatically assume anyone who doesn't agree with everything you say is passionately anti-American, your misconceptions don't surprise me.
Secondly, "what America has been doing lately" involves raping a lot of the rest of the world in the pursuit of oil. Now, Britain has the North Sea... which admittedly may not last forever, but at least we don't need to bomb anyone with the pretense of moral high ground to get it
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| As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... [message #130341] |
Sun, 02 January 2005 16:48 |
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U927
Messages: 709
Registered: February 2003
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| =[DT |
=gbull=[L]=]| Umbral_DelaFlare |
Also, why the hell would they want to see America, a nation which they helped give birth to, crumble?
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France did help us with our independence, but only to hurt Britain. And to tell you the truth they were late, as Washington had Cornwalis backed into Yorktown as the French began to help with their Navy. Either way, Cornwalis would have been defeated.
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Wrong. Cornwallis had his navy in Yorktown as a means of escape. If the French Navy wasn't there, Cornwallis would have fled, allowing the war to continue.
| =[DT |
=gbull=[L]=]| Umbral_DelaFlare |
Now, when, exactly, did Iraq present a threat to us?
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| cowmisfit |
3000 americans and counting killed because of groups saddam funds and supports
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I'm pretty sure cow already answered that.
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Osama bin Laden was one son out of 25 of a billionaire oil businessman in Saudi Arabia. He didn't need funding. Also, just because you "support" a cause doesn't mean someone should go out and beat the living hell out of you just because they oppose it.
Now then, on to the biggr retard.
| cowmisfit |
France is an established country , that i have to admit, is quite a big player in the world scene, so we can't just go in and rid the terrorist with bombs and such as we have in Iraq, i know that.
So what do we do.
We wait until we are done or at least have some more funding and troops to spread out after the Afganistan and Iraqi war is over. We then send diplomats to these country's (not just france as theres also north korea and syria, lybia , sadi arabia to deal with as well , france will go after these nations) And demmand OUR inspectors NOT the UN be allowed into the country and have access to all goverment files. We give a dead line, if these demands are not made we begin with a halt and possible a barcade to the nations ports if they have them. We step up spying efforts on the nation if its one like France who we can't just go in and bomb the hell out of, if its not france we threaten force. However not a full scale invasion like we did in iraq (we had a reason to go into iraq because we had 20 years of evidence and reason). I would agree with you for the most part if tommrow we invaded a country like syria and lybia for reasons of supporting terrorist because then i would want proof, but i have the faith in my nation that we would ahve the proof, i just don't have faith in your nations to back us even if we showed it right to all of your faces.
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This method is just looking for a fight. You KNOW these nations have large Anti-American feelings, and you expect the United States to block them off ALONE and demand that they allow OUR inspectors to make sure they don't have any WMDs?
All you would be doing is painting a giant target on your back. There is NO way these nations are going to back down to America, especially Iran, whose people are greatly influenced by the Ayatollah, who has great Anti-American sentiments.
The United States is not the police of the world. That is why the United nations was created, so a majority of nations can agree on a situation and what to do about it, be it war or economic policy. We signed the agreement, and are therefore obliged to keep it. If we go around saying "We will do whatever we want, however we want, so fuck you all", then we will have even more countries who will hate us.
We cannot allow our pride and arrogance to get in the way. We are not exempt from the rules in the UN Charter, so we have to follow the laws placed by the UN, no matter how unfair they may seem.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act but a habit. - Aristotle
8-Bit Theatre. The power of evil compels you!
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| As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... [message #130350] |
Sun, 02 January 2005 17:25 |
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warranto
Messages: 2584
Registered: February 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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| cowmisfit |
| warranto |
cowmisfit, since France among others are helping the terrorists, as you say they are, what do you suggest we should do to a country to assists/funds/ etc. terrorists?
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France is an established country , that i have to admit, is quite a big player in the world scene, so we can't just go in and rid the terrorist with bombs and such as we have in Iraq, i know that.
So what do we do.
We wait until we are done or at least have some more funding and troops to spread out after the Afganistan and Iraqi war is over. We then send diplomats to these country's (not just france as theres also north korea and syria, lybia , sadi arabia to deal with as well , france will go after these nations) And demmand OUR inspectors NOT the UN be allowed into the country and have access to all goverment files. We give a dead line, if these demands are not made we begin with a halt and possible a barcade to the nations ports if they have them. We step up spying efforts on the nation if its one like France who we can't just go in and bomb the hell out of, if its not france we threaten force. However not a full scale invasion like we did in iraq (we had a reason to go into iraq because we had 20 years of evidence and reason). I would agree with you for the most part if tommrow we invaded a country like syria and lybia for reasons of supporting terrorist because then i would want proof, but i have the faith in my nation that we would ahve the proof, i just don't have faith in your nations to back us even if we showed it right to all of your faces.
And i'll finish this in a sec, shower time.
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Interesing.
Ok, you heard it here folks. Cowmisfits idea for what to do to America for supporting/funding/etc. terrorism.
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| As if we could pretend this wouldn't come around... [message #130352] |
Sun, 02 January 2005 17:41 |
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Ryan3k
Messages: 363
Registered: September 2004
Location: USA
Karma: 0
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Commander |
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I have my doubts about the War on Terror, more specifically, the current situation in Iraq...
What is happening, is we are pissing off large numbers of Iraqis and Middle-Easterners in general, and inadvertantly contributing to the memberships of terrorist groups in the process.
Now, civilians are indeed unintentional casualties during war. But think of this scenario:
Picture a child in Iraq, and during the initial bombing raid on Baghdad, his parents were killed when a building was bombed. Yes, it wasn't 'intentional.' But because his life was essentially ruined due to the United States, as he would proclaim, he is going to dedicate his life to resisting American 'occupation' and will probably become a terrorist. So, we killed terrorists when we bombed the building, but we essentially created terrorists in the process. Don't deny that this sort of thing is happening.
Anyway, what's the alternative? I'm not sure, I think we've already done an immense amount of damage that is going to plague us in the future. But what I do know, is that this war is exacerbating the problem of anti-American feelings in the Middle East, contributing to the ranks of terrorist groups. This is how I see the 'War on Terror' to be a paradox.
This is a stupid question, and maybe it's because I'm too tired, so forgive me. What are we still doing in Iraq?
Oh, and about the whole 1984-mini-argument... I haven't even read it, and I still knew what DaveGMM was referring to when he made his post. Good grief, is it so unreasonable for someone to assume a general level of intelligence on these boards and reference an immensely popular book? :rolleyes:
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